The Square Round Table

[Kace]

Barn, I am so amazed about all you've been through (that you've shared) and then someone stealing your equipment. That's horrible. I thought you were using a gas powered auger or stinger... I hadn't even thought about you using a manual one. Wow. Lots of work.

Could you get a fairly light off road Honda CT90 or 110 with a well laid out, lite weight, evenly distributed enclosed kind of aluminum teardrop trailer in there? I use a CT90 and there is a thread here somewhere were the guy shows the trailer he uses, hooked to the bike... he might of designed it to get up in tight areas in mountains I believe. Anyway, the CT90/ 110 has altitude adjustment and a hi/low range so it actually has 8 gears depending on the terrain. They both will go through or over just about anything... even mud or soft ground with water. Since it's enclosed you could even sleep in it if you wanted to and carry all your supplies.

Could you get a stinger somewhat close to auger with? Those reach out a long way and you wouldn't have to bail water as much... you could even make your holes bigger covering more ground. The stinger will show how far down you are.

Just trying to think of something to help you have an easier go of this. I was out of town over the weekend but thought about you're project... I'm very interested in this and so hoping for your success! Definitely will be watching your progress!

I was talking about this with some friends and family members, without disclosing even what state you are in and said this is the first time I get to kinda watch along on a hunt like this and since nobody has ever recovered anything at all...if you found what you are looking for... it would be absolutely the most historical find coming from that era... Everything regarding this topic would change. It would become one mans determination and belief turned reality. Usually it's people who've never found or recovered anything writing a book about something they've never done who figured that's where the money is. I'm really excited about this for you!

Keep the updates coming! Love them!! Be careful and try not to overheat... up here has broken heat records for the past three days. I bet it's hotter there.

Kace

 

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[barnhse]

Thank you Kace and All.
I am sure you guys have had more good and bad stuff happen than me.

1) Regarding a vehicle, to pull stuff out in the marsh, I had a little cart to pull, like a rickshaw. However, when the grass is 2 to 6 feet tall (yes it grows somplaces to 6 feet) I can't use it because the grass is a barrier.
So I switched to this kind of a cart with great success. (I would drag it behind me on it's back wheels)

I wore out two of them before I stopped using it.
Folks thought I was homeless and they don't like homeless folks around.
So I had to stop using it (after a year) due to drawing too much attention from folks and the police.
After being broke from buying a PI detector with a huge 4X4m coil, and paying for the probing machine, and having to buy all new digging equipment, I could not afford much.
So I tried a cheap mountain bike from Walmart.
However, being old, fat, and out of shape, I just couldn't do it.
So, I converted it into an electric bike for about $150.
It breaks half the time (literally) so I have to carry some extra tools to fix it whenever I go out to the marsh (walking it back to my truck really hurts my back).

But when it works, it is just perfect.
I attach my tools to it, put some in the basket, and wear a backpack.
Way cool.

2) Regarding a power digger with an extendable bit, well, I am just scared of them.
I live in a rural area and folks get hurt really bad with them.
I thought of strapping one side to a tree but still scares the heck out of me.
Remember I am all alone out there and have already broken my hand before with a simple electric drill.
Then there is the problem of getting the bit out every time so I can use my hand-auger to get the filings out.
I'd have to use a winch to pull the bit out of the hole.
And most of the places I would be digging don't have trees, so I would have to build a tripod to hold the winch.
With all that, I just decided to stay in the stone-age and use my trusty ol' Seymour hand-auger.

3) I did try a longer handle on my hand-auger with 4 cinder blocks on it (120 pounds @ 30 pounds each) on Saturday.
I get 1 to 2 inches of clay out with two cinder blocks.
I get 3 to 4 inches of clay out with four cinder blocks.
But, it was too hard for me to turn with 4 cinder blocks, and then too hard to pull the auger bit and pipe up. I know, I am a wimp.
So I am happy using just two cinder blocks at a time...just twice as many scoops to do.

4) It was 97 degrees on Saturday but wasn't bad at all in the shade.
This Saturday it is supposed to be 104 degrees.
Every degree matters at these temps.
Sometime I will have to share when I did get heat exhaustion searching for another treasure near Gilmer, Texas...that was something...took me 3 weeks before the wife would let me go back out. Ha!

 

[Kace]

Thank you Kace and All.
I am sure you guys have had more good and bad stuff happen than me.

1) Regarding a vehicle, to pull stuff out in the marsh, I had a little cart to pull, like a rickshaw. However, when the grass is 2 to 6 feet tall (yes it grows somplaces to 6 feet) I can't use it because the grass is a barrier.
So I switched to this kind of a cart with great success. (I would drag it behind me on it's back wheels)
View attachment 1596088
I wore out two of them before I stopped using it.
Folks thought I was homeless and they don't like homeless folks around.
So I had to stop using it (after a year) due to drawing too much attention from folks and the police.
After being broke from buying a PI detector with a huge 4X4m coil, and paying for the probing machine, and having to buy all new digging equipment, I could not afford much.
So I tried a cheap mountain bike from Walmart.
However, being old, fat, and out of shape, I just couldn't do it.
So, I converted it into an electric bike for about $150.
It breaks half the time (literally) so I have to carry some extra tools to fix it whenever I go out to the marsh (walking it back to my truck really hurts my back).
View attachment 1596099 View attachment 1596100
But when it works, it is just perfect.
I attach my tools to it, put some in the basket, and wear a backpack.
Way cool.

2) Regarding a power digger with an extendable bit, well, I am just scared of them.
I live in a rural area and folks get hurt really bad with them.
I thought of strapping one side to a tree but still scares the heck out of me.
Remember I am all alone out there and have already broken my hand before with a simple electric drill.
Then there is the problem of getting the bit out every time so I can use my hand-auger to get the filings out.
I'd have to use a winch to pull the bit out of the hole.
And most of the places I would be digging don't have trees, so I would have to build a tripod to hold the winch.
With all that, I just decided to stay in the stone-age and use my trusty ol' Seymour hand-auger.

3) I did try a longer handle on my hand-auger with 4 cinder blocks on it (120 pounds @ 30 pounds each) on Saturday.
I get 1 to 2 inches of clay out with two cinder blocks.
I get 3 to 4 inches of clay out with four cinder blocks.
But, it was too hard for me to turn with 4 cinder blocks, and then too hard to pull the auger bit and pipe up. I know, I am a wimp.
So I am happy using just two cinder blocks at a time...just twice as many scoops to do.

4) It was 97 degrees on Saturday but wasn't bad at all in the shade.
This Saturday it is supposed to be 104 degrees.
Every degree matters at these temps.
Sometime I will have to share when I did get heat exhaustion searching for another treasure near Gilmer, Texas...that was something...took me 3 weeks before the wife would let me go back out. Ha!

That's a good idea, converting the mountain bike to electric... quieter too.

I was thinking of a stinger that's mounted to a truck and controlled from a distance... I agree gas powered Hand augers can be dangerous especially in rocky terrain. If you could rent one mounted on a truck and they reach out a long way, no doubt you could easily go 24' down in the hole you're working on and probably do another one or two and start at least 10-15 more holes in one day. Those things go through or pivet around most rocks and bring them to the surface and dump them in the spoilings.

I just didn't know the distance away you would have to safely park the truck on solid ground for the stinger to reach in the marsh, the stinger part reaches out a very long way.

I'd love to hear some of the funny (now) mishaps that have happened to you. If you wanna share.

One that happened to me was I stepped off into quick sand. It wasn't funny at the time and I lost my boots and socks, but luckily I was able to pull myself out... it turned out that when I went back later a rock pile that was next to it was where a family had hidden their valuables. I started pulling some rocks out on the quicksand side. All those years it remained undisturbed til I jumped off in it! It was scary... but something good came out of it! I learned a valuable lesson and recovered some cool stuff.

I'm really enjoying your updates and hoping you find those safes. You deserve to.

Kace

 

[barnhse]

I bet someone could create a whole YouTube educational video series could be done on what NOT to do ...and what to do instead... when searching for KGC treasure...ha!

The videos could be corny and funny (like a skit), not serious or anything, but educational none-the-less.

They could film topics such as:

1. someone falling into quicksand (and sinking all the way over their head)
2. getting lost in the woods/wilderness, GPS on the mobile phone stopped working (and calling out with a never-ending echo)
3. getting heat exhaustion (and falling over)
4. getting a sunburn (don't hunt in your bathing suit)
5. falling down a steep hill (throw off your backpack on your way down so you don't get hurt if you land on your back)
6. a treasure hunting partner dying while treasure hunting with you (don't drag him over a state line before calling for help... yikes!)
7. getting bit by a snake when stepping over (instead of on top of) a log
8. getting arrested for trespassing (using a huge policeman)
9. being shot at by hunters (near miss)
10. hunting in thickets (getting stuck in the bushes and being suspended above the ground level)
11. mosquito invested marshes (being chased by a swarm)
12. batteries running out when you start metal detecting (whole day wasted)
13. fights with your spouse for going treasure hunting (maybe using a Rosanne skit as a template)
14. crossing a creek with unexpected things in it (logs to trip over, scary snake, unexpected deep place)
15. tripping and being so out of shape you can't get up (have to crawl to a tree to get up)

....and on and on it goes... just way too funny to think about possible "educational" treasure hunting videos

I have had "versions" of 1-5, 10, 11, 13-15 happen to me already...only time will tell if the rest will happen, too...haha

"There is no adventure without some degree of danger."

 

[Rebel - KGC]

YEAH! Monty Python search for KGC Treasures... WOULD be a RIOT!

 

[Kace]

That's funny Barn... I saw a Deer Hunting Video similar to that starting with preparation, the drive, arrival and the hunt.

Well the hunt was reversed, the guy forgot his bullets.... and the Buck got mad.

I'd like to read all your stories, you sound like you have a great sense of humor about mishaps that are bound to happen!

Kace

 

[barnhse]

One of my most stoopidest ideas was not to dig but to excavate my target areas instead.

The idea was to use a 55-gallon steel drum with which to scoop out 50 gallons of mud and dirt at a time.

I bought some steel bars 2 inched wide, bolted them to the drum and made teeth out of the ends sticking up to grab the mud/soil/clay/rocks.
I would then attach strong steel cables to it and use a big winch to drag it along the ground to fill up the drum.
I even drilled 3/8 inch holes in the bottom to allow water to drain out as I drug it along.
I weighted down the back to keep it from tipping over and to keep it aligned.

Cave-ins would simply mean more scoops, or I could shore up the sides as I when down deeper and deeper.
Here is a picture of what it looks like after my using it ... once.


I even tested the concept with an empty green beans can and string in some dirt in my backyard before construction.
Looked good on paper.
In real life, not so much.

My first test scoop filled up about 1/3 of the drum for a distance about 15 feet in distance.

I couldn't budge it.
To empty it, I couldn't flip it upside down.
Instead, to dump it out, I had to build a wooden ramp from the drum's mouth all the way up a hill...then drag it with another winch to turn it around.
Once I got it 1/2 way up the hill I couldn't even turn it around to empty it using a huge, long solid metal bar acting as a lever.
So I had to dig out the inside mud with a shovel, bending way over and/or on my knees. (my back hated me)
And all that effort was with the drum just a third full.

So I had to resort to my stone-age hand-auger again.
Another 2 or 3 months and more money wasted.

"Stupid is as stupid does."
Meaning... an intelligent person who does stupid things is still stupid.

 

[Kace]

Well Barn that idea didn't work in that situation but it's far from a stupid idea! I know for myself I'd be looking at ways to get more overburden removed faster. Thanks for sharing that story! Keep the stories coming.. they could help others doing projects like you have.

I sure wish for you there was a way to get a small track hoe/blade combo in there...Could you lay steel 4'x8 steel sheets down with 2x10's on top as tracks to get a small hoe in there? The sheets could also be used to shore up the sides of the hole if needed. Drill a hole or two in one end of the sheets to fasten cables on to a winch for when you want to move them or pull them up or out. Just thinking.

Did you step off in quicksand too? I didn't go over my head... I quickly sank up to just below my arm pits...I kept my arms straight up cause I had a rifle in my hands which was lucky cause that film was slick... I tossed the rifle up on some grass and then lunged for that grass and was able to pull myself out. I don't think I could of gripped it if my hands had that film on them. They say to try and get on your back with it arched if you get in quicksand, but I was sinking so fast there was no way to bring my legs up... too much pressure on them.

I was worried about snakes too... where I stepped off was just dirt with small purple flowers connected by little vines. After I got out and sat there pondering what had just happened that dirt and those flowers returned to the way they originally were... you couldn't tell I had just been in there and had made a big mess of it getting out. A short time later I took my folks and some friends back there... of course it looked completely undisturbed... I picked up a good size rock and tossed it in.. we all stood there and watched it return to normal within 10-15min. Needless to say, I'm pretty careful where I step now if I see any dirt with flowers on it! LOL! Lesson Learned.

How far are these holes you're digging in the marsh from solid ground?

Kace

 

[barnhse]

Well Barn that idea didn't work in that situation but it's far from a stupid idea! I know for myself I'd be looking at ways to get more overburden removed faster. Thanks for sharing that story! Keep the stories coming.. they could help others doing projects like you have.

I sure wish for you there was a way to get a small track hoe/blade combo in there...Could you lay steel 4'x8 steel sheets down with 2x10's on top as tracks to get a small hoe in there? The sheets could also be used to shore up the sides of the hole if needed. Drill a hole or two in one end of the sheets to fasten cables on to a winch for when you want to move them or pull them up or out. Just thinking.

Did you step off in quicksand too? I didn't go over my head... I quickly sank up to just below my arm pits...I kept my arms straight up cause I had a rifle in my hands which was lucky cause that film was slick... I tossed the rifle up on some grass and then lunged for that grass and was able to pull myself out. I don't think I could of gripped it if my hands had that film on them. They say to try and get on your back with it arched if you get in quicksand, but I was sinking so fast there was no way to bring my legs up... too much pressure on them.

I was worried about snakes too... where I stepped off was just dirt with small purple flowers connected by little vines. After I got out and sat there pondering what had just happened that dirt and those flowers returned to the way they originally were... you couldn't tell I had just been in there and had made a big mess of it getting out. A short time later I took my folks and some friends back there... of course it looked completely undisturbed... I picked up a good size rock and tossed it in.. we all stood there and watched it return to normal within 10-15min. Needless to say, I'm pretty careful where I step now if I see any dirt with flowers on it! LOL! Lesson Learned.

How far are these holes you're digging in the marsh from solid ground?

Kace

"Bad decisions make great stories…enjoy life"

Your quicksand story sounds like a VERY close call.

The closest I got to being stuck is from trying to cross some mud. I sank down to almost my knee, and couldn't move either leg. It took me about 45 minutes to unstick one leg by pulling up with even pressure on each side of one of my snake boots (no matter how much my back told me to stop that). The mud suction so very slooooowly succumbed and was able to free myself. Very scary indeed. So now I know to throw small pieces of wood ahead of my footsteps if I have to do that again. When I run out of small pieces of wood, I backtrack over my same wooden pieces to get more pieces of wood to go further. You gotta luv it.

BTW, I get my wood stuff free from the Craig's List's "Free" section. I also get free wooden pallets from there. I just log into Craig
S List, and set up a "saved search" and it will send you an email when someone posts something in the "Free" section containing a key word like "wood" or "pallet". Easy peasy.

Summer is almost here in Texas, it was 99 degrees today when I was out there.
The mud is drying out and showing cracks on the surface, here is a pic I took today (sorry it is sideways).

The cracked mud is hard and easily walked on, like pavement.
Other than in the summer time, you can't walk on it.

I bent one of my digging pipes today, so will have to replace it tomorrow with a different one.
So I used the extra time today, before the wife called my cell and told me to come home, to look around yet again for marked trees and/or rock markers.
There a simply no marked trees.
The only stone, at all, that I even found was this one.

It is diamond shaped, flat, and between the old road that is gone now and the dig site.
But no carvings on it and it doesn't look like a marker to me.

I also found a large railroad tie (I think), about 12 to 15 feet long (I didn't measure it).
It is the only railroad tie in the whole, huge marsh.
It was fairly near the dig-site, not near the rock above, and farther away from the old road..
And between the old road that is gone now and the dig site.
But there were no carvings on it at all.

Oh well.

 

[barnhse]

Alas, my goal of digging down to 24 feet below the water line will require a better set of equipment than I have.
Once I got down to about 10 feet, the clay won.
I couldn't turn my hand-auger without bending my 3/4 in extension pipe.

The clay is really tough the deeper I go.
If the story is true, and the laborers dug through it, they must have used pickaxes. Poor souls.

The good thing I learned was that the clay starts about 7.5 feet from the water line.
My hill surfaces vary in height, but the water line is constant.
So my thinking is to dig my discovery holes and see if a hole has clay that starts lower than that.

I measured my dig target sites today and they run about 100 feet total in length.
The height of the hills varies from about 1.5 feet to about 10 feet higher than the water line.
To get faster results, I am thinking of going 10 feet apart, rather than just 2 feet apart.
I might get lucky.

I know that in the whole marsh, this is my only guess as "the place".
Here are my reasons:

1. The old road only had ONE turn in the marsh.
2. The turn is the ONLY place with a wooded area.
3. After the turn, the old road headed away from the marsh.
4. The place I am searching has a section that matches the map and is abutting a section that was screwed up with man-made changes (which might have matched the map in the 1870s, so I kept it as a possible target area).
5. The place is well hidden from the flat marsh and old road, due to the way the hills run.
6. The land where this place is located was very active during the Confederacy and was even purchased after the war by one of the men listed in L.C.'s URLs in post #160 in this forum.

By the way, what is this "black book" that was mentioned in post #138 by Kace in this forum earlier?

 

[Kace]

Alas, my goal of digging down to 24 feet below the water line will require a better set of equipment than I have.
Once I got down to about 10 feet, the clay won.
I couldn't turn my hand-auger without bending my 3/4 in extension pipe.

The clay is really tough the deeper I go.
If the story is true, and the laborers dug through it, they must have used pickaxes. Poor souls.

The good thing I learned was that the clay starts about 7.5 feet from the water line.
My hill surfaces vary in height, but the water line is constant.
So my thinking is to dig my discovery holes and see if a hole has clay that starts lower than that.

I measured my dig target sites today and they run about 100 feet total in length.
The height of the hills varies from about 1.5 feet to about 10 feet higher than the water line.
To get faster results, I am thinking of going 10 feet apart, rather than just 2 feet apart.
I might get lucky.

I know that in the whole marsh, this is my only guess as "the place".
Here are my reasons:

1. The old road only had ONE turn in the marsh.
2. The turn is the ONLY place with a wooded area.
3. After the turn, the old road headed away from the marsh.
4. The place I am searching has a section that matches the map and is abutting a section that was screwed up with man-made changes (which might have matched the map in the 1870s, so I kept it as a possible target area).
5. The place is well hidden from the flat marsh and old road, due to the way the hills run.
6. The land where this place is located was very active during the Confederacy and was even purchased after the war by one of the men listed in L.C.'s URLs in post #160 in this forum.

By the way, what is this "black book" that was mentioned in post #138 by Kace in this forum earlier?

Dang Barn... I'm sorry you keep getting into that darn clay!! Since it's so hard there now.. could you get some power equipment in? I wish you could, it sounds like a brutal place to hand dig! I can't imagine hand digging all of those holes! Do you have many snakes there? I've read other Texans say there are lots of Rattle Snakes and Copperheads around their areas.

I've been dealing with all of the storm damage here since yesterday afternoon and I'm worn out! Still Not Done and it's been 1.5 days working on it! It was a brutal storm, Fast and Extremely Damaging. It's not nearly as hot here as it is there... I don't know how you do it... My hats off to you, that's for sure! Just be careful in that heat.

The 'Black Book' is another name for 'Jesse James Was One Of His Names' by Del Schrader and Orvus Lee Houk aka Jesse James III. That's the Granddaddy of all the KGC Mega Vault Treasure Books that every other KGC author has copied just changing wording and adding a few things... That book is where it all started. I believe it was released in 1975... it's very expensive with collectors... $275 and UP from what I've seen, but there used to be a CD and PDF version that are more affordable than the hard copy of the book. I don't know if those are readily available anymore.

Do you have JJ was one of his names?

Have you watched the Youtube KGC Vault videos? I think there's maps on there too... when I was researching KGC Vaults I watched some and looked at the maps here on Tnet and online at other treasure sites and blogs. Some KGC Treasure Books you can download and read for free on some sites and others you can get for free on Audible. If there's a charge, it's not much and a few places give you 7 or 14 days free.

Have you ever looked ON TREES for anything that someone either nailed (probably square nails) or affixed someway? One place where stuff was buried I located was from an old Watch Winder square nailed in a tree.

Also, and I'll post a small sample of it from a journal key.... Braille was used here...sometimes really small holes and sometimes large... I've seen some that if you aren't aware of it look like the work of a woodpecker on trees and rocks... the rocks obviously aren't from a woodpecker but look like really just a rock that you'd find in a stream or creek that has holes in it that do not go all the way through. I've also seen it on gravestones, sometimes real ones and sometimes fake graves and headstones. The holes in those look a lot like air holes or imperfections in the carving or pour.

This is kinda funny and strange that I saw it....I've told about being left a lot of journals and diaries that have been passed down in my family and kin from many generations and added to as well from each generation...anyway I was also left a really old Braille writing stylus and writer...We have never had anyone blind in our family...One day, Little House On The Praire was on and it was the episode where Adam was trying to get up the nerve to propose to Mary at the School for the blind... She was at a desk writing a letter in Braille and that Stylus and Writer she was using looked like the exact one that had been passed down all these years to me. I paused and rewound it on the DVR to where I could see it really clear...I even took a picture of it on the TV. lol! Talk about strange. But, it was really a pretty covert way to leave a message on a tree, rock or tombstone or even in a journal, diary or letter as not many people could read Braille or even knew what it was and it looks like something a wood worm or woodpecker made. Most folks still don't recognize a Braille message on a tree or rock.

I read where you said you hadn't found any sign at your dig site and thought maybe that would be helpful to you and others...I know from the journals it was used in other areas also.

As Always.. I'm wishing you luck!

Kace

 

[barnhse]

Dang Barn... I'm sorry you keep getting into that darn clay!! Since it's so hard there now.. could you get some power equipment in? I wish you could, it sounds like a brutal place to hand dig! I can't imagine hand digging all of those holes! Do you have many snakes there? I've read other Texans say there are lots of Rattle Snakes and Copperheads around their areas.

I've been dealing with all of the storm damage here since yesterday afternoon and I'm worn out! Still Not Done and it's been 1.5 days working on it! It was a brutal storm, Fast and Extremely Damaging. It's not nearly as hot here as it is there... I don't know how you do it... My hats off to you, that's for sure! Just be careful in that heat.

The 'Black Book' is another name for 'Jesse James Was One Of His Names' by Del Schrader and Orvus Lee Houk aka Jesse James III. That's the Granddaddy of all the KGC Mega Vault Treasure Books that every other KGC author has copied just changing wording and adding a few things... That book is where it all started. I believe it was released in 1975... it's very expensive with collectors... $275 and UP from what I've seen, but there used to be a CD and PDF version that are more affordable than the hard copy of the book. I don't know if those are readily available anymore.

Do you have JJ was one of his names?

Have you watched the Youtube KGC Vault videos? I think there's maps on there too... when I was researching KGC Vaults I watched some and looked at the maps here on Tnet and online at other treasure sites and blogs. Some KGC Treasure Books you can download and read for free on some sites and others you can get for free on Audible. If there's a charge, it's not much and a few places give you 7 or 14 days free.

Have you ever looked ON TREES for anything that someone either nailed (probably square nails) or affixed someway? One place where stuff was buried I located was from an old Watch Winder square nailed in a tree.

Also, and I'll post a small sample of it from a journal key.... Braille was used here...sometimes really small holes and sometimes large... I've seen some that if you aren't aware of it look like the work of a woodpecker on trees and rocks... the rocks obviously aren't from a woodpecker but look like really just a rock that you'd find in a stream or creek that has holes in it that do not go all the way through. I've also seen it on gravestones, sometimes real ones and sometimes fake graves and headstones. The holes in those look a lot like air holes or imperfections in the carving or pour.

This is kinda funny and strange that I saw it....I've told about being left a lot of journals and diaries that have been passed down in my family and kin from many generations and added to as well from each generation...anyway I was also left a really old Braille writing stylus and writer...We have never had anyone blind in our family...One day, Little House On The Praire was on and it was the episode where Adam was trying to get up the nerve to propose to Mary at the School for the blind... She was at a desk writing a letter in Braille and that Stylus and Writer she was using looked like the exact one that had been passed down all these years to me. I paused and rewound it on the DVR to where I could see it really clear...I even took a picture of it on the TV. lol! Talk about strange. But, it was really a pretty covert way to leave a message on a tree, rock or tombstone or even in a journal, diary or letter as not many people could read Braille or even knew what it was and it looks like something a wood worm or woodpecker made. Most folks still don't recognize a Braille message on a tree or rock.

I read where you said you hadn't found any sign at your dig site and thought maybe that would be helpful to you and others...I know from the journals it was used in other areas also.

As Always.. I'm wishing you luck!

Kace

Hi Kace,

1) I may be able to get some power equipment in there during the dry months, June, July, and August. Once the rains come in September, then I can't until the next summer months. I must remind you that I am cash strapped these days.

2) Additionally, the owner was very firm (with fire in his eyes) about no heavy equipment in there. He doesn't want anyone to get hurt if something topples over, or be liable if it topples over or sinks. So that was that.

3) I was the first one ever to ask permission to search the land for historical artifacts. I did find that there was an old dump in part of the marsh. So as a kind gesture, I searched it one weekend and gave him a box of old bottles that were dated on the bottom circa 1920s. I am not interested in old bottles.

4) There are a few snakes in the marsh. I have seen just a few. One was a huge copper head. It was the biggest one I had ever seen. The diameter was about as big as my forearm. It surprised me and I was way too close to it (my hand was like a foot away from it…luckily, it was asleep). I was so shaken up, I left right after I saw it. I have never seen it since. And I didn't tell my wife. I carry a two-shot pepper spray gun in my back jeans pocket, in case I need it for any aggressive poisonous snakes.

5) The most snakes I saw were in the Gilmer, Tx area. Many, many moccasins 6 feet long there. The first responders that rescued me after my heat exhaustion there (I got lost that day) said the whole place was infested with moccasins and copper heads. I hate snakes. The only good snake is a dead snake. I was foolish (er, stewpid) and did get in the river once with waders on. Also, I fell in the river there once, too. The wife was not happy. Treasure hunting (for large caches) is NOT for the faint of heart.

6) What storm? What area are you located in?

7) I have lived in Texas all my life. I like the heat under 100 degrees and the sting on my skin during the summer. I don't like the heat if it is over 100 degrees in the shade. I have seen it at 117 degrees when I was a boy.

8) I have the electronic version of "Jesse James Was One of His Names" that I got from Amazon here: https://www.amazon.com/Jesse-James-...1&keywords="Jesse+James+Was+One+of+His+Names"

9) Surprisingly, the book does mention a place near where I am searching. Although I found the place about a year before I got that book. The book is just too wild to believe, in my opinion. I didn't see any maps in my electronic version.

10) I have scoured the trees a lot for markings. The place is very old and untouched (except for the man-made clearings and such). Many trees in the marsh are down and rotting. I looked on the downed trees, too. I don't see any man-made markings or cuttings on them. My thinking is that the safes were buried there after the war (but before 1872) and after the KGC stopped marking trees, just my hope...ha!

11) So interesting about using braille as a code!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

As Kace suggested, it would be a good idea look to the dead for answers in all cemeteries located within 50 miles or so of your sight.

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Barn sometimes it is hard to find a marker among thousands of markers, Keep an open mind and look for treasure symbols as well as animals, oaks, and anything like Kase mentioned on the stones. These fellows were crafty and made use of the names and graves of strangers\, friend, and especially their foes.

L.C.

 

[Kace]

As Kace suggested, it would be a good idea look to the dead for answers in all cemeteries located within 50 miles or so of your sight.

L.C.

I'm in Missouri where the strong storms hit.

Yes, the Braille is a pretty good idea they had. It sure kept a lot hidden where it was used and allowed messages to be passed pretty much undetected. I was glad to see you've checked dead and downed trees. When they used nails on trees, bark was sometimes pealed back or the nails were driven through the bark straight into the tree trunk. That does make it harder to see sometimes unless you're looking for it. I've seen where a nail was left sticking out of the tree where it drew attention to that particular tree... closer to homeplaces or towns there could of been something hanging from the nail. By now many trees are dead but if there's no development or woodcut around you can still see the Braille holes.

Like you've probably noticed I'm a huge believer that graves and monuments that were real were used to convey messages... Hidden in Plain Sight I guess you would say.

I'm also a huge believer in fake graves and monuments and those were not only used to convey messages but to
hide/bury things for safekeeping. Usually it's not hard to spot a fake grave and headstone... Not always, but a lot of times from my experience the stones that were made for a fake grave appeared to be for a child.

Here's a photo of one that was used to hide things that were important to the small community that consisted of family and kin... the dates on the stone said 1861-1862. This child never existed.... but a fake grave of a child was an almost absolute guarantee that nobody would disturb it and they are found a lot in family plots on the family property or in small community cemeteries... I've found them in the timber too, not always hidden but close to where an old trail or dirt road was. This one like most of the others I've found isn't deep, and usually there's more sinking to them.. flowers and other decorations were left on the grave just like a normal one. If you take a metal detector over them, sometimes you'll pick up foil that used to be used for grave decoration and if it's sunken like this one it's easy to detect anything metal buried. I'll try and find a photo of an entire fake graveyard that I've posted here before and there was a huge moonshine still operation going on underground.

If you have access to a drone you can cover more area looking for depressions in the ground.



Tell us about having first responders finding you and falling in the river with waders on if you don't mind. I'm guessing you had cell service or a two way radio when you got turned around. I like learning from others experiences.

I stepped off in a top only frozen water hole with chest waders on once and a fly rod in my hand... (I was Trout Fishing)...I had to throw the rod on ground and take the suspenders off while still holding them to crawl out of the water... the waders filled up but there were a couple guys right there that were able help me and it took both of them to pull the water filled waders out..lol! I had a sheet of ice on me instantly and I crunched walking all the way back to the RV to dry off and change clothes. lol!!

Life is Exciting!

Kace

 

[barnhse]

As Kace suggested, it would be a good idea look to the dead for answers in all cemeteries located within 50 miles or so of your sight.

L.C.

50 Miles! oh my goodness!

 

[barnhse]

Hi Kace,

Sorry for the long post here:

1) Regarding markers, the one-and-only stone I could find (near the old road) was diamond shaped. I will look again and dig it up to see the underside of the rock, too. Additionally, the diamond corners could very well point to one of my target areas. Of course, there are four corners on the diamond, so could be just a coincidence. If it does "point" to one of my three target areas, I probably should prioritize that area as primary.

2) I know I wouldn't want to dig up a marked child grave. Or any other grave for that matter. (shudder) I don't see your photo in your post about "Here's a photo of one that was used to hide things that were important to the small community that consisted of family and kin... the dates on the stone said 1861-1862."

3) I have no drone, but I do have Google Earth (which is my friend) to zoom in as close as 30 feet. I print out the close-ups and take them with me when I go out there, and even laminate them sometimes, so I can write on the printouts with a grease pencil even if they get wet, which they usually do. Using Google earth on my cell phone is hard for my old eyes to see, much less write on for field notes.

4) Falling into rivers is uncool. So far, I have fallen into rivers three times. I hate that. My backpack gets wet and everything in it. Way uncool. Usually, I fall in because I am too close to the bank and the brush tends to push me in unexpectedly. One time I thought I could jump from one bank to the other, and forgot that I was old, fat, and out of shape.

5) The time I have waders on I purposely entered the river to metal detect. Lots of downed trees scared me as I thought the tree limbs were snakes. I am so stupid, cause they really could have been snakes and the waders were thin material.

6) The story of the first responders is that I was searching for this treasure near Gilmer, Tx: https://www.legendsofamerica.com/cypress-creek-gold/ . This is because it is within driving distance. I used my Google Earth overlay trick and old maps to determine the intersection between the historical flow of Little Cypress Creek and the Cherokee Trace trail of that time period. Easy peasy.

Of course, once again, thickets and snakes. The land is 300 acres large, bounded by more big pieces of land. I used my phone's Google Earth to show my location and also picked the tallest tree I could see as a marker.

The Fates were against me that day.

I started out around 9 am, carrying a backpack with lots of water (think heavy) and my Garret Pro detector. At around 6 pm I thought I would call it quits for the day. It was very hot that day, and I had consumed most all of my water.
After using my cell phone a lot during the day, my cell phone lost my Google Earth connectivity!
Additionally, I couldn't find my landmark tree!

Luckily I could still make calls. The wife went crazy. I told her to give me an hour to find my way out. Then I said the same thing the next hour, and the next, and the next. Finally it was dark.
My water was gone.
And my cell phone battery was almost gone.
I could not complete sentences on the phone with wife, started to dream while I was awake, and told my wife that I was going to just lie down to sleep and wait until morning (yeah right, in snake heaven). She called everyone she could think of…the police, the game warden, and only God knows who else.

She called me back and said the police said for me to call 911 and they could get them my coordinates. I called 911 and they asked me to stay on the line so they could triangulate…sheesh, with my low battery and only lifeline. Turns out that their cell phone triangulation sucks out here, so no luck.

Finally, the game warden came to the party of first responders (a block-long string of emergency vehicles with all their emergency lights all on flashing). The game warden was super mad, as it was a Saturday night and he had plans! He cussed a blue streak (the other first responders told me afterwards).

Anyway, they played their sirens and I could barely hear them and not sure which direction they were coming from out there. The game warden knew a back way in, so he went into a back entrance. He blasted a little air-powered horn they use at football games. I could hear that okay. So he and I made our way toward each other until he found me and led me back to his car (which was still a long way).

By then the game warden had calmed down and started to talk to me like a human being (sort of). He asked me if I found the treasure and if so, he wanted to split it with me (you gotta love Texas). I also lost my $600+ Garret Pro out there…somewhere.

When we got back to the block-long fleet of emergency vehicles, the ambulance driver gave me a quick physical and one by one the other first responders came by, and within earshot of my wife, told me how many snakes are in there. Thanks guys, just what I needed the wife to hear. The wife refuses for me to ever go back (ya' think?).

I carry two cell phones (with different carriers) now, just in case, and sometimes a "pocket power" pack.

 

[Kace]

Hi Kace,

Sorry for the long post here:

1) Regarding markers, the one-and-only stone I could find (near the old road) was diamond shaped. I will look again and dig it up to see the underside of the rock, too. Additionally, the diamond corners could very well point to one of my target areas. Of course, there are four corners on the diamond, so could be just a coincidence. If it does "point" to one of my three target areas, I probably should prioritize that area as primary.

2) I know I wouldn't want to dig up a marked child grave. Or any other grave for that matter. (shudder) I don't see your photo in this post about "Here's a photo of one that was used to hide things that were important to the small community that consisted of family and kin... the dates on the stone said 1861-1862."

3) I have no drone, but I do have Google Earth (which is my friend) to zoom in as close as 30 feet. I print out the close-ups and take them with me when I go out there, and even laminate them sometimes, so I can write on the printouts with a grease pencil even if they get wet, which they usually do. Using Google earth on my cell phone is hard for my old eyes to see, much less write on for field notes.

4) Falling into rivers is uncool. So far, I have fallen into rivers three times. I hate that. My backpack gets wet and everything in it. Way uncool. Usually, I fall in because I am too close to the bank and the brush tends to push me in unexpectedly. One time I thought I could jump from one bank to the other, and forgot that I was old, fat, and out of shape.

5) The time I have waders on I purposely entered the river to metal detect. Lots of downed trees scared me as I thought the tree limbs were snakes. I am so stupid, cause they really could have been snakes and the waders were thin material.

6) The story of the first responders is that I was searching for this treasure near Gilmer, Tx: https://www.legendsofamerica.com/cypress-creek-gold/ . This is because it is within driving distance. I used my Google Earth overlay trick and old maps to determine the intersection between the historical flow of Little Cypress Creek and the Cherokee Trace trail of that time period. Easy peasy.

Of course, once again, thickets and snakes. The land is 300 acres large, bounded by more big pieces of land. I used my phone's Google Earth to show my location and also picked the tallest tree I could see as a marker.

The Fates were against me that day.

I started out around 9 am, carrying a backpack with lots of water (think heavy) and my Garret Pro detector. At around 6 pm I thought I would call it quits for the day. It was very hot that day, and I had consumed most all of my water.
After using my cell phone a lot during the day, my cell phone lost my Google Earth connectivity!
Additionally, I couldn't find my landmark tree!

Luckily I could still make calls. The wife went crazy. I told her to give me an hour to find my way out. Then I said the same thing the next hour, and the next, and the next. Finally it was dark.
My water was gone.
And my cell phone battery was almost gone.
I could not complete sentences on the phone with wife, started to dream while I was awake, and told my wife that I was going to just lie down to sleep and wait until morning (yeah right, in snake heaven). She called everyone she could think of…the police, the game warden, and only God knows who else.

She called me back and said the police said for me to call 911 and they could get them my coordinates. I called 911 and they asked me to stay on the line so they could triangulate…sheesh, with my low battery and only lifeline. Turns out that their cell phone triangulation sucks out here, so no luck.

Finally, the game warden came to the party of first responders (a block-long string of emergency vehicles with all their emergency lights all on flashing). The game warden was super mad, as it was a Saturday night and he had plans! He cussed a blue streak (the other first responders told me afterwards).

Anyway, they played their sirens and I could barely hear them and not sure which direction they were coming from out there. The game warden knew a back way in, so he went into a back entrance. He blasted a little air-powered horn they use at football games. I could hear that okay. So he and I made our way toward each other until he found me and led me back to his car (which was still a long way).

By then the game warden had calmed down and started to talk to me like a human being (sort of). He asked me if I found the treasure and if so, he wanted to split it with me (you gotta love Texas). I also lost my $600+ Garret Pro out there…somewhere.

When we got back to the block-long fleet of emergency vehicles, the ambulance driver gave me a quick physical and one by one the other first responders came by, and within earshot of my wife, told me how many snakes are in there. Thanks guys, just what I needed the wife to hear. The wife refuses for me to ever go back (ya' think?).

I carry two cell phones (with different carriers) now, just in case, and sometimes a "pocket power" pack.

WOW! That's scary to think about!

Let me be clearer on the fake grave thing... All the journals, diaries and letters I was left were also accompanied by great grandparents, grandparents, parents and aunts, uncles and other kin from SWMO where some settled when the territory's opened telling and showing me things.

My family kept very detailed records on EVERYTHING that happened and then I had the constant tours and stories of properties that were owned and the people who lived there and where they came from....I still have them, I still hunt there and spend time there.... and they've never been out of the family and also I had verbal stories of all the ancestors that were documented. The trips to different locations started when I could walk.

They kept extremely detailed records of all births and deaths and where folks were buried. Multi-Generational.
They also left records of Fake births and deaths and fake grave locations that were used to hide things... especially during and after the civil war when Union Militias were murdering, robbing, burning, raping and plundering homes.

Fake Graves have been used just about everywhere to hide things...I'd NEVER go into any real grave or desecrate churches or real cemeteries. Even the most brutal militias were adverse in most situations to dig up graves unless it was someone that they wanted to mutilate or take the body as a trophy... in those instances until everything cleared up those guys were buried under a false name or their grave was hidden and left unmarked until it was safe to mark. In my areas after everything cleared up and it was safe they would clear cut the area around a hidden grave and use it as a family plot.

Monuments and headstones were also left with messages... the picture that I posted of the fake child's grave... the stone was correct that it was originally dug in 1862...this one had been added to once later during the war to protect things that these folks didn't want to lose to militias. When it was added to the last time it was under the guise of planting a flowered bush that has had starts taken off of it and has been planted and grown at every generations home since the war... my grandmother planted a start of It at my first home and the next one and so on. My parents had starts of it at their places. I'll have to think of the name of it... I think it starts with an H... Hysenthia or something like that. It gets big.

Anyway it was an older widow family member who couldn't dig very deep that wanted to hide some things, she worried they would be found so she did it in a known fake grave and planted the bush on top of the stuff.

Baker is right about checking older cemeteries looking at monuments or headstones for messages left. If you go to your county which by what you've said you have... all cemeteries will be listed even the private ones on maps. If theres COE lakes around, any cemeteries that would be within so many feet of the bank of the lake or were going to be flooded for the lake had to be relocated by the corp.... so you'll want to check that also if you ever go check out old cemeteries. If they are relocated, nothing you see will do you any good unless it's a blatant message carved on the stone not using any directional coordinates. Old churches also have records and if a current church took over the original church they should have the handwritten journals. That's a whole 'nother topic on where to find the really old handwritten records.

If I go to areas that were not family or kin owned... I always check the ethnicity of the majority of the people that originally settled there... Scots-Irish did things different than German, Swedish or Italian settlements. It's very helpful to know when hunting or looking for signs because Every nationality was different and did things differently. Old Grist or Lumber Mills that used water is also helpful to know the locations.

I hope that clears up the fake grave thing... I don't want anyone to think I have or would desecrate or dig up a real grave... No Way. If not, feel free to ask anything.

Keep your stories and progress coming, I'm really enjoying them!

Kace

 

[barnhse]

Thanks, L.C. and Kace,

Should I decide my target areas are incorrect, then I can fall back to cemeteries.

 

[Kace]

Here's the fake cemetery with the still underground...note the fake headstones. The trees around were actually in buried pots that could be pulled out to allow vehicle access.

Never underestimate the ingenuity of country folks to hide things! lol!




Kace