THE Random Chat Thread - AKA "The RCT" - No shirt or shoes required - Open 24 / 7

[releventchair]

Thank you releventchair.
That is very interesting information. Raises some questions and spurred further readings. Not sure how much anyone knows about this history but maybe some one does.

- How long did the Wyandot continue the Feast of the Dead?
- When they were forced onto smaller and smaller lands, did they move the dead?
- When the Wyandot were forced out of Ohio and moved to Kansas, did they take their dead?

I have not encountered any writings describing any native tradition allowed during relocation. If any had desired to relocate an ancestor...
After all , the ancestors were where already where they should be.

One western chief (and different customs , but not different respect) Was it Chief Joseph? Mentioned he belonged where the bones of his/their ancestors were.
More is mentioned about the land contrast between reservation and "home" where his people thrived , vs declined in all aspects. Hinting that the ancestral grounds and people before and after were bound together in well being.

Here's some other. And again different traditions , but not different respect/reverence.

[“We sold our land for our graves–that we might have a home, where the bones of our fathers are buried. We were not willing to sell the ashes of our relatives which are so dear to us. This was the reason why we sold our lands. It was not to pay debts over and over again, but to benefit the living, those of us who yet remain upon earth, our young men & women & children.”
~Makade-binesi (Blackbird)]

Tradition was erased where possible , if only strongly disapproved of in best cases.
Accounts of customary burials during relocation and after are few in my readings too. Total disruption of lifeways during forced relocation meant disposing of ceremony and tradition.
Painful reflection for generations when looking either forward or backward. With much more culture and tradition behind , not allowed going forward.

https://chequamegonhistory.wordpress.com/2014/01/20/blackbirds-speech-at-the-1855-payment/


And if relocation could allow a permanence of geography and allowed tradition to have ancestors , would it be suitable for them? Not on strange lands. Or a city. Despite the governments (non political mention , it's the entity ,not a particular party) viewpoint.

["Relocation is like ripping you from everything you know," Dorene said. "And it's ripping you from that bond you have with the wild rice, with the lakes, with the strawberries and blueberries ... the place you know."]
https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/11/01/uprooted-the-1950s-plan-to-erase-indian-country

 

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[pepperj]

We bought a couple of T shirts from an Indigenous artist a few years ago.
Kind enjoy wearing it around a certain neighbor.
The ones that truly believe that they have no rights to any land.
I love my left shoulder certain days.

 

[ARC]

2 storms at the same time in gulf scenario... AGAIN... this time should be real interesting.

I mean... crazy damn season and its not over yet.

I was waiting to see how these played out and to be honest I am nervous on the current situation... this thing is going to rip it up... and if high pressure doesn't keep on us... it will be on us.

"When two hurricanes collide, the phenomenon is called the Fujiwhara effect.
If two cyclones pass within 900 miles of each other, they can start to orbit.
If the two storms get to within 190 miles of each other, they'll collide or merge. This can turn two smaller storms into one giant one.
In rare instances, close proximity can throw a storm off course, as was the case with hurricanes Hilary and Irwin in July 2017. "

Anyway... batten down the hatches.

Something wicked this way comes.

 

[ARC]

Alright then... G night.

 

[bill from lachine]

ARC,

Good night and keep us posted on the status of the pending storms.

 

[ECS]

2 storms at the same time in gulf scenario... AGAIN... this time should be real interesting.
I mean... crazy damn season and its not over yet...
Something wicked this way comes.

Must be the season of the witch.

 

[bill from lachine]

ECS,

Here you go.

 

[bill from lachine]

Here's some more music for you.

 

[pepperj]

Morning world

 

[Rookster]

Morning

 

[Rookster]

Morning pepperj

 

[pepperj]

Morning Rook

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Good morning Jim and Rook.

 

[Rookster]

Morning Dave

 

[Blak bart]

Hello and good morning to all !!

 

[pepperj]

Morning Dave, Bart

 

[ARC]

Morning.

 

[ARC]

Morning Rook... Pepper... Anti... Bart.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Mornin all!

Antiqua:
It makes one wonder what the archies found to do a dig there...
Here in the great lakes area and to the North, were feasts of the dead. I'm guessing from memory it was the Ottawa nation here. (But let's not trust my memory too much..) When stored remains would be interred en masse at certain intervals.
Part of ceremonies involved grave goods interred with them. Perhaps that was the interest? IF the low area was a large dug communal grave originally.
This link suggests relocating previously-stored remains when a village was moved. The old accounts I read years back detailed the cleaning of bones and they're being kept in lodges till interment. No mention of relocating them after the intermittent ceremonial mass internment.
Could be era, or a given nation's traditions, or mixed information .....

If the depression is natural, perhaps it was used as a fortification, shelter, or windbreak.
One South of me with an interesting tie to relics farther North was termed an earthwork, but was really just a single vertical log wall with a ditch on one side.
The ditch was removed earth to strengthen the wall base, but also the refuse pit.
One may speculate why the wall was desired. From attracting smoke to travel up, and to reflect heat. To a visual screen. To a defensive structure/cover. To a windbreak. Ect...
Of note, as with many sites, it was where/near two rivers converging. Alas, I no longer recall how far from water.
During threat of assault, I could see backing off travel/waterways to be out of sight, hearing, smell.
And in times of peace /security, being with water at /near hand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Huron_Feast_of_the_Dead

Very interesting information RC, I was keeping a close eye to the ground looking for anything ‘Native’ related but didn’t see anything. The area that I was hunting was in a low depression in the ground, but I don’t get the feeling that it was a ‘burial’ site. When I was a kid, there was a large burial mound that the arkies had dug in the 1960s prior to a housing development being built around it. Knowing this fact, I guess I’ve always assumed these people buried their ancestors on high prominent ground.

Thank you so much for your insight RC.

Dave,

In your roamings one thing to keep an eye out for when native campsites are involved are middens or fire pits. They'd usually be on higher ground near water to avoid flooding or heavy rains. Could be lots of artifacts in and around those pits.

Thank you for this information Bill.
I’ll head back again next month after we’ve had some rain, because if this was a native site the arkies dug then there will hopefully be something in the fields that I can spot with the naked eye.

ECS,

Designated historical sites in Canada are off-limits also. These would generally involve former fur trade forts or native villages that have been identified, etc...

A random fire pit or campsite unless falling under the list of sites should be ok.

Personally, I would never knowingly detect any pioneer or naïve graveyard/burial site.
There are just too many other sites to hunt in my area to stoop to that level… the last thing I need these days is bad karma.

Thanks again Bill.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Good morning ARC and Bart.

I'll be watching those storms that are brewing, I'm hoping they don't affect your areas.