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That's cool Earnie. Life would be really dull if we were all robots with duplicated software. Its the spice that makes the soup interesting.
the priest map or witch map
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EarnieP
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Yes, I'm sure we could have very lively discussions on this, and related subjects, on some other appropriate sites.
I'm on them quite often.
Who knows, maybe we've crossed swords on those other sites and don't even realize it.
All the best,
I'm on them quite often.
Who knows, maybe we've crossed swords on those other sites and don't even realize it.
All the best,
Oroblanco
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I merely asked where this discussion was going. Please do not try to read more into what I post, than is there. We also have the 'ignore' function as well as 'next'.
I would suggest to anyone that thinks polar bear numbers are increasing, to read the relevant article on polarbearsinternational dot org. The truth is quite the inverse.
Real of Tayopa
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Aw heck people, it is all fun in any event. Typical campfire session,spontaneous subject. Has any treassure ever been found through the collective efforts of our talks
Although I must admit that I hadn't given any thought to The Caballo, or Victorio peak as Jesuit Depositories before, nor the location of Naranal in the Tayopa complex.
Now on Atlantis?? But there I expect holes will be shot in my Explorers club flag also ---- Oro
Although I must admit that I hadn't given any thought to The Caballo, or Victorio peak as Jesuit Depositories before, nor the location of Naranal in the Tayopa complex. Now on Atlantis
?? But there I expect holes will be shot in my Explorers club flag also ---- Oro
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EarnieP
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To quote that great philosopher Kellyann
..."We shouldn't let intelligence get in the way of our politics, or politics get in the way of our intelligence."
I know that's not the kind of 'Intelligence' she meant, but it's so appropriate. (And she practices it quite well.
)
Feel free to respond, however I'll now disengage from this side topic.
---------------------
As far as the Witch/Priest Map topic of this string;
Yes, I do see the image in the original posted picture, but to me it's like seeing puppy dogs in clouds...
..."We shouldn't let intelligence get in the way of our politics, or politics get in the way of our intelligence."
I know that's not the kind of 'Intelligence' she meant, but it's so appropriate. (And she practices it quite well.
)Feel free to respond, however I'll now disengage from this side topic.
---------------------
As far as the Witch/Priest Map topic of this string;
Yes, I do see the image in the original posted picture, but to me it's like seeing puppy dogs in clouds...
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Old
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No, the truth is not the inverse...... But; you CAN find just about a 100 articles and studies to back up EITHER side of the discussion. A couple are listed below.
small snippet from one such......." Global polar bear numbers have not declined at all, let alone a decline of 67% – in fact, the latest estimate of 22,000-31,000 polar bears worldwide (IUCN Red List, 2015) is the highest it’s ever been....."
The real truth is Polar bears are doing remarkably well. Much to the chagrin of many who used them as the bellwether of the destruction in the immediate future (2008) of man made climate change. Then called global warming.
The question is why are they doing so well. And there are many answers. Restrictions on hunting being foremost, in my opinion. If you don't explore ALL the facts you cheat yourself.
My point, lost to many and irrelevant to some, is that its a great deal of hype and very little actual science. Follow the money. It tells you much more than you can learn listening to politicians, activist or anyone else with an agenda that thrives on grants and pork allotments.
Deducer, and apparently others, are all raked up in a pile about the incoming administrations coming actions. Have no doubt. Change is coming. IMO, as it should. Things on almost all levels are out of hand to the point of being silly, reckless and dangerous to our survival.
Our new President is a man from the corporate world. I see his vision clearly and know it well. Have used it to good effect in my own tenure in that corporate world.
In the corporate world when a company (not unlike our nation) gets bogged down in corporate mire and foolishness. cleaning house is required. This is known as the black hat manager. The black hat manager's tenure is usually of short duration but effective. He/she has to take out the garbage that has accumulated over time. Woe unto those that say.....but we've Always done it this way....they go first. When the ship is back on course then a com by ya type manager can be brought in.
Buckle your seat belt. Cause you ain't seen nothing yet. Should have seen it coming. We tried to tell ya. Just look at that by county map of the election results. Left coast/right coast dwellers that I don't understand even a little bit make up the tiny blue land mass. The ginormous red throughout the heartland says it all. There is a new sheriff in town and he answers to no one but the heartland that put him there. I hope he doesn't forget that. Eric Cantor did and you see what that got him. Yeap......those that were blindsided should have seen it coming. Handwriting was all over the wall.
https://polarbearscience.com/2015/0...bout-26000-20000-32000-despite-pbsg-waffling/
https://fabiusmaximus.com/2016/11/02/good-news-about-polar-bears/
small snippet from one such......." Global polar bear numbers have not declined at all, let alone a decline of 67% – in fact, the latest estimate of 22,000-31,000 polar bears worldwide (IUCN Red List, 2015) is the highest it’s ever been....."
The real truth is Polar bears are doing remarkably well. Much to the chagrin of many who used them as the bellwether of the destruction in the immediate future (2008) of man made climate change. Then called global warming.
The question is why are they doing so well. And there are many answers. Restrictions on hunting being foremost, in my opinion. If you don't explore ALL the facts you cheat yourself.
My point, lost to many and irrelevant to some, is that its a great deal of hype and very little actual science. Follow the money. It tells you much more than you can learn listening to politicians, activist or anyone else with an agenda that thrives on grants and pork allotments.
Deducer, and apparently others, are all raked up in a pile about the incoming administrations coming actions. Have no doubt. Change is coming. IMO, as it should. Things on almost all levels are out of hand to the point of being silly, reckless and dangerous to our survival.
Our new President is a man from the corporate world. I see his vision clearly and know it well. Have used it to good effect in my own tenure in that corporate world.
In the corporate world when a company (not unlike our nation) gets bogged down in corporate mire and foolishness. cleaning house is required. This is known as the black hat manager. The black hat manager's tenure is usually of short duration but effective. He/she has to take out the garbage that has accumulated over time. Woe unto those that say.....but we've Always done it this way....they go first. When the ship is back on course then a com by ya type manager can be brought in.
Buckle your seat belt. Cause you ain't seen nothing yet. Should have seen it coming. We tried to tell ya. Just look at that by county map of the election results. Left coast/right coast dwellers that I don't understand even a little bit make up the tiny blue land mass. The ginormous red throughout the heartland says it all. There is a new sheriff in town and he answers to no one but the heartland that put him there. I hope he doesn't forget that. Eric Cantor did and you see what that got him. Yeap......those that were blindsided should have seen it coming. Handwriting was all over the wall.
https://polarbearscience.com/2015/0...bout-26000-20000-32000-despite-pbsg-waffling/
https://fabiusmaximus.com/2016/11/02/good-news-about-polar-bears/
Real of Tayopa
Bronze Member
Ernie, CHEEKIN. stick aroumd for coffee
the govt is and has been for 50 years overrun with career criminals...gangsters basically...both dem and rep...they stay in office by buying votes...they hand out welfare checks to useless lumps of poo that can work but wont..i think those that do work finally got tired of supporting those that wont...that is how the witch lost..plain and simple...the working man finally spoke...loudly
he said he is going to drain the swamp....he has a big dirty job in front of him...but if he can accomplish that task this country will finally be a place we can be proud of again
Oroblanco
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Have you been to the Arctic recently? I have not been there in some years now, but have friends that are there every year as they must keep up the assessment work on their mining claims. I sold them the claims. The white bears are declining in numbers and becoming more desperate and aggressive. Recently (a year or two ago) one was shot over 150 miles from the sea, farther than any polar bears had been known to venture inland before. Polar bears have been drowning, which is also unknown from history, the most likely reason being that they were unable to locate large enough ice to float on in order to rest. They are excellent swimmers but can only swim just SO far.
The Northwest Passage around North America now is open every summer, which has not been the case in a thousand years and even then is only conjecture, that it MIGHT have been open in the period when the Norse were exploring the region. It should open of course, every so many millenia, but is not due to have such a warming period. I dare anyone that does not think that our climate is undergoing some major changes, to make a personal visit to the Arctic. If that does not open your eyes, nothing will.
Old
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Roy, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that your question .."have I been to the Arctic recently" was something you wrote without a lot of thought. No. I haven't. You further indicated you hadn't been there 'recently' either. So......I'm assuming (dangerous) we are similarly disposed to relying on what we have been told lately. Your sources are compelling. But; so are mine. Both have been there, done that.
I doubt you looked at the link I posted so........here's the bio of the author. One of them, anyway, I posted a couple quick sources.
About the author
Susan Crockford is a zoologist with more than 35 years experience, including published work on the Holocene history of Arctic animals. She is an adjunct professor at the University of Victoria, British Columbia (a “non-remunerated professional zoo archeologist associate”) and co-owner of a private consulting company, Pacific Identifications Inc. See her publications here. and her website Polar Bear Science.
The man who took the photograph that I posted has also been there. Very recently. That's a healthy, fat, boor bear. On his page are several photographs of Arctic bears. Even if you hate me to pieces you really should look at his web site. The pictures are fantastic and I believe you would enjoy them. Just relax and enjoy the scenery. You and I aren't going to solve this. But there are two sides to this story.
Just like there are many sides to the EPA discussion.
Here's one. EPA, through the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act, requires all Counties to administer the increased drainage and sediment policies recently (2015) imposed. These are administrative provisions not part of the original voted act. Bureaucratic changes. This costs the county roughly $60K a year in personal, training and equipment. These changes require permits for each land disturbance event. Part payment to the Feds, and part payment to the State DEQ. This increases each new building lot site costs by upwards of $25K, each. Just to get a stamp on the plat.
Also, I have a mile and half dirt road to my house. By these ordinances each time we drag the road, or pull the ditches, a permit is required. That has to be applied for, paid for, and an engineer provide a written plan pre and post job. HA! Catch us if you can. Do you know how ludicrous that is?
Next up, Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act requires everyone's septic tank be pumped every five years. Now, a septic system will tell you when its not feeling well. Sometimes they will work for 20 years without a hick up and sometimes they won't work 30 days if something is amiss. But they will tell you. Trust me. Those lines working or not, filter the waste water through several yards of gravel and out into the sub soil where its disbursed. We are 100 miles from the Chesapeake Bay and 4000 feet from the nearest flowing stream. There are untold number of soils, grasslands, reeds, timber, etc., to filter the water before it ever gets to a flowing stream.
Okay fine, you call the honey dipper truck to come and pump the system in order to comply. He comes, drains the tank into his truck and drives it to Richmond to the municipal water filtration operation where its off loaded at a cost to him. That's processed and..................goes straight into the James River which goes straight into the Chesapeake Bay.......Make sense? Heck no.
Some of this madness just has to stop.
I doubt you looked at the link I posted so........here's the bio of the author. One of them, anyway, I posted a couple quick sources.
About the author
Susan Crockford is a zoologist with more than 35 years experience, including published work on the Holocene history of Arctic animals. She is an adjunct professor at the University of Victoria, British Columbia (a “non-remunerated professional zoo archeologist associate”) and co-owner of a private consulting company, Pacific Identifications Inc. See her publications here. and her website Polar Bear Science.
The man who took the photograph that I posted has also been there. Very recently. That's a healthy, fat, boor bear. On his page are several photographs of Arctic bears. Even if you hate me to pieces you really should look at his web site. The pictures are fantastic and I believe you would enjoy them. Just relax and enjoy the scenery. You and I aren't going to solve this. But there are two sides to this story.
Just like there are many sides to the EPA discussion.
Here's one. EPA, through the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act, requires all Counties to administer the increased drainage and sediment policies recently (2015) imposed. These are administrative provisions not part of the original voted act. Bureaucratic changes. This costs the county roughly $60K a year in personal, training and equipment. These changes require permits for each land disturbance event. Part payment to the Feds, and part payment to the State DEQ. This increases each new building lot site costs by upwards of $25K, each. Just to get a stamp on the plat.
Also, I have a mile and half dirt road to my house. By these ordinances each time we drag the road, or pull the ditches, a permit is required. That has to be applied for, paid for, and an engineer provide a written plan pre and post job. HA! Catch us if you can. Do you know how ludicrous that is?
Next up, Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act requires everyone's septic tank be pumped every five years. Now, a septic system will tell you when its not feeling well. Sometimes they will work for 20 years without a hick up and sometimes they won't work 30 days if something is amiss. But they will tell you. Trust me. Those lines working or not, filter the waste water through several yards of gravel and out into the sub soil where its disbursed. We are 100 miles from the Chesapeake Bay and 4000 feet from the nearest flowing stream. There are untold number of soils, grasslands, reeds, timber, etc., to filter the water before it ever gets to a flowing stream.
Okay fine, you call the honey dipper truck to come and pump the system in order to comply. He comes, drains the tank into his truck and drives it to Richmond to the municipal water filtration operation where its off loaded at a cost to him. That's processed and..................goes straight into the James River which goes straight into the Chesapeake Bay.......Make sense? Heck no.
Some of this madness just has to stop.
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Have you been to the Arctic recently? I have not been there in some years now, but have friends that are there every year as they must keep up the assessment work on their mining claims. I sold them the claims. The white bears are declining in numbers and becoming more desperate and aggressive. Recently (a year or two ago) one was shot over 150 miles from the sea, farther than any polar bears had been known to venture inland before. Polar bears have been drowning, which is also unknown from history, the most likely reason being that they were unable to locate large enough ice to float on in order to rest. They are excellent swimmers but can only swim just SO far.
The Northwest Passage around North America now is open every summer, which has not been the case in a thousand years and even then is only conjecture, that it MIGHT have been open in the period when the Norse were exploring the region. It should open of course, every so many millenia, but is not due to have such a warming period. I dare anyone that does not think that our climate is undergoing some major changes, to make a personal visit to the Arctic. If that does not open your eyes, nothing will.
roy....what do you attribute this warming climate to?...depleted ozone layer?...if you are going to figure this one out you will have to look alot further back in history....our climate has had many natural changes over the last few million years...remember the ice age?....the great lakes were formed when all the ice melted...was that global warming too?,,,something to wrap your head around
EarnieP
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Darn it, I'm trying to stay out of this but hate to see some things go uncontested.
If you like to "follow the money", you may want to check into the monthly payments made to your "polar bear expert" Susan Crockford (kind of a good name) by the climate change denier Heartland Institute. The Heartland Institute is an American conservative and libertarian public policy think tank. (Wiki)
Susan, actually an expert in canine evolution (dogs), also wrote an article (was she paid for that one also) denying any climate change connection to the extreme number of recent deaths of walruses who are now reduced to a few over-crowded beaches due to increasing lack of sea ice.
The truth is, Susan is apparently a hired-gun climate change denier. A paid political mouth piece.
The real question, what it always gets down to in the end;
...You either choose to help improve life on the planet, or you don't.
All the rest is just noise explaining your choice.
If you like to "follow the money", you may want to check into the monthly payments made to your "polar bear expert" Susan Crockford (kind of a good name) by the climate change denier Heartland Institute. The Heartland Institute is an American conservative and libertarian public policy think tank. (Wiki)
Susan, actually an expert in canine evolution (dogs), also wrote an article (was she paid for that one also) denying any climate change connection to the extreme number of recent deaths of walruses who are now reduced to a few over-crowded beaches due to increasing lack of sea ice.
The truth is, Susan is apparently a hired-gun climate change denier. A paid political mouth piece.
The real question, what it always gets down to in the end;
...You either choose to help improve life on the planet, or you don't.
All the rest is just noise explaining your choice.
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cactusjumper
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Dirt1955
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The earths orbit around the sun is Eliptical and stretches like a rubber band. Every 100 years it reaches its apex. The weather on the planet changes due to this and solar flares earthquakes volcanic eruptions and yes cutting down rain forests carbon emissions and god knows what else. There is no one cause to global warming. 1000 years from now the oceans will have changed course and magnetic north will be where? I don't post often. I am a student here. ALL OF YOU have enriched us the "quiet majority" with your wisdom, insight, and humor. Please continue. We are anxiously waiting to see where the trail leads next...America is great thanks to you all.
Old
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Oh my gosh......... The polar bear as cute and cuddly (at a distance) he may seem, is just the pawn in this game. He's doing just fine and doing what God intended him to do. And so am I.
As said, he's the bellwether of all who follow Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth. The truth is all that BS went up in smoke and some folks just can't handle THAT inconvenient truth. Its Karma for crying out loud.
Most times Al Gore shows up some place the temperature drops to freezing. Now tell me that ain't Karma <g>. That's why the groupies had to rebrand the concept to Climate Change from Global Warming. Because all those folks who pointed at the actual facts of weather statistic (and were labeled as Pariahs - not unlike Ms. Crockford) were right. It was only after the "academics" who "adjusted" their charts to advance the "proof" of unusual and predictive warming were found to be fudging their numbers and advancing their likelihood of renewed grant funds. That happened.
And how about the ship of Climate Change enthusiasts that went to the Arctic to film and document the receding icecaps that got iced in and had to be rescued with a CG cutter. LOL. Its Karma. Now that's funny and if you don't think so you're taking this way to serious.
I see coal trains blocked and miners furloughed. I see co-gen plants that cost millions of dollars and employed hundreds of people that produced energy we all need, now vacant and abandoned. I see tanker ships riding high in the Elizabeth River showing no cargo. I see rolling blackouts with power service interrupted because the usage is too high. While we wait for windmills and solar panels. Hope they work out, but it ain't here yet. That ain't funny.
As said, he's the bellwether of all who follow Al Gore's Inconvenient Truth. The truth is all that BS went up in smoke and some folks just can't handle THAT inconvenient truth. Its Karma for crying out loud.
Most times Al Gore shows up some place the temperature drops to freezing. Now tell me that ain't Karma <g>. That's why the groupies had to rebrand the concept to Climate Change from Global Warming. Because all those folks who pointed at the actual facts of weather statistic (and were labeled as Pariahs - not unlike Ms. Crockford) were right. It was only after the "academics" who "adjusted" their charts to advance the "proof" of unusual and predictive warming were found to be fudging their numbers and advancing their likelihood of renewed grant funds. That happened.
And how about the ship of Climate Change enthusiasts that went to the Arctic to film and document the receding icecaps that got iced in and had to be rescued with a CG cutter. LOL. Its Karma. Now that's funny and if you don't think so you're taking this way to serious.
I see coal trains blocked and miners furloughed. I see co-gen plants that cost millions of dollars and employed hundreds of people that produced energy we all need, now vacant and abandoned. I see tanker ships riding high in the Elizabeth River showing no cargo. I see rolling blackouts with power service interrupted because the usage is too high. While we wait for windmills and solar panels. Hope they work out, but it ain't here yet. That ain't funny.
EarnieP
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Article based largely on writing by J Armstrong, who just also happens to be heavily associated with the Heartland Institute (is he still on their Board of Directors?).
By the way, "The Heartland Institute has received at least $676,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998 but no longer discloses its funding sources." (And the Koch Brothers among such others.) (DeSmog)
There's a shocker! Where else have I recently heard the name Exxon related to politics? Hmmmm? Well I'm sure it will come to me.
Armstrong was also listed as a founding member of group named Climate Exit whose founding statment was; "The world must abandon this suicidal Global Warming Crusade. Man does not and cannot control the climate." (Or so Exxon and others most likely tell them.)
But I'm sure his writings and opinions about polar bears are completely unbiased.
Google is your friend, guys. The truth is out there.
Still wishing all you treasure hunters all the best.
Oroblanco
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Old wrote
Lynda, you presumed rather a lot there. You were the one that posted that we can both post "hundreds" of articles in support of our views, right? Hence, my suggestion to go visit the Arctic and see for yourself. I have not been there in years but have kept in touch with friends that do, and have seen photos of areas I know well, and it is changing, and NOT for the better. I will be making a return there and look forward to it.
AZDave wrote
Well I am not a scientist, but most scientists are telling us that Man is directly affecting the world climate. Why do you doubt them? Do you really think the climate changes we can see, are natural? Did you know that they are now proposing to start a new geological age, the Anthropocene, namely 'man-altered' because Man is having more effect on the Earth than nature is now? With over nine BILLION people on the planet now, all breathing the air, drinking the water, crapping, needing clothing, energy and food, do you propose that many people have NO effect? The US is not even the major factor in this, it is China and India and the so-called 'Developing world' where it is normal practice to burn off tropical rainforests to convert the land to pasture.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that the EPA is ridiculous, heavy handed and stupid. They will throw the book at someone for the leaking septic system, or a spilled quart of used motor oil in your own driveway, BUT for Exxon or Proctor and Gamble, if they spill a couple million gallons of some toxic cancer-causing agent, well if they are willing to make a 'cash contribution' to the EPA, they keep a clean record! I have seen this too, happen several times with P & G. Look at BP oil, after that disaster in the gulf spilling millions of gallons of crude oil, have you seen that company punished, put out of business? Har. But hoo boy don't you drop a mercury-filled thermometer, they will evacuate the whole area!
Too many people take their sides on this topic based on their politics, and I blame Gore for politicizing the issue which ought to be nonpartisan since it will affect everyone regardless of political affiliation.
Lynda, you presumed rather a lot there. You were the one that posted that we can both post "hundreds" of articles in support of our views, right? Hence, my suggestion to go visit the Arctic and see for yourself. I have not been there in years but have kept in touch with friends that do, and have seen photos of areas I know well, and it is changing, and NOT for the better. I will be making a return there and look forward to it.
AZDave wrote
roy....what do you attribute this warming climate to?...depleted ozone layer?...if you are going to figure this one out you will have to look alot further back in history....our climate has had many natural changes over the last few million years...remember the ice age?....the great lakes were formed when all the ice melted...was that global warming too?,,,something to wrap your head around
Well I am not a scientist, but most scientists are telling us that Man is directly affecting the world climate. Why do you doubt them? Do you really think the climate changes we can see, are natural? Did you know that they are now proposing to start a new geological age, the Anthropocene, namely 'man-altered' because Man is having more effect on the Earth than nature is now? With over nine BILLION people on the planet now, all breathing the air, drinking the water, crapping, needing clothing, energy and food, do you propose that many people have NO effect? The US is not even the major factor in this, it is China and India and the so-called 'Developing world' where it is normal practice to burn off tropical rainforests to convert the land to pasture.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that the EPA is ridiculous, heavy handed and stupid. They will throw the book at someone for the leaking septic system, or a spilled quart of used motor oil in your own driveway, BUT for Exxon or Proctor and Gamble, if they spill a couple million gallons of some toxic cancer-causing agent, well if they are willing to make a 'cash contribution' to the EPA, they keep a clean record! I have seen this too, happen several times with P & G. Look at BP oil, after that disaster in the gulf spilling millions of gallons of crude oil, have you seen that company punished, put out of business? Har. But hoo boy don't you drop a mercury-filled thermometer, they will evacuate the whole area!
Too many people take their sides on this topic based on their politics, and I blame Gore for politicizing the issue which ought to be nonpartisan since it will affect everyone regardless of political affiliation.
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Article based largely on writing by J Armstrong, who just also happens to be heavily associated with the Heartland Institute (is he still on their Board of Directors?).
By the way, "The Heartland Institute has received at least $676,500 from ExxonMobil since 1998 but no longer discloses its funding sources." (And the Koch Brothers among such others.) (DeSmog)
There's a shocker! Where else have I recently heard the name Exxon related to politics? Hmmmm? Well I'm sure it will come to me.
Armstrong was also listed as a founding member of group named Climate Exit whose founding statment was; "The world must abandon this suicidal Global Warming Crusade. Man does not and cannot control the climate." (Or so Exxon and others most likely tell them.)
But I'm sure his writings and opinions about polar bears are completely unbiased.
Google is your friend, guys. The truth is out there.
Still wishing all you treasure hunters all the best.
Ernie,
Are you saying that anyone who disagrees with "Climate Change" is stupid or only has an ulterior motive to lie? Do you know if any of the models showing a conclusion for either side have been shown to be false?
https://www.bing.com/search?q=model...odel+showing+climate+change+shown+to+be+false
Some of us have been looking into this question for years. The "evidence" for your side of the debate has been shown to be false, and in some cases fabricated.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo
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