Whiskey Springs Maps

[cuzimloony]

I was wrong about the Wizard of Oz not having anything to do with Freemasonry. Our amigo cuzimloony has taken the time to privately correct my ignorance on this, for which I'm grateful. Please carry on, and Merry Christmas to everyone!

Oh boy......
I sure didn't expect that.
Thank you..
Merry Christmas Jim.

 

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[PotBelly Jim]

Oh boy......
I sure didn't expect that.
Thank you..
Merry Christmas Jim.

I'll only admit I'm wrong once or twice a day
Merry Christmas Pard.

 

[Cubfan64]

Conspiracy theories, secret organizations protecting unknown things and places, Apaches watching and waiting for someone to get too close and chopping heads off, etc... are stories that provoke adventure, suspense and drama but more often than not, the simplest explanations are the right ones.

There's not a whole lot connecting the head to the rest of the body. Between decay, lions, bears and coyotes I'm sure it wouldn't take too long for the head of a dead body to be torn away and dragged off to be eaten somewhere else.

Why did shootings subside when the Wilderness Act went into effect? Because the "crazy" folks were no longer allowed to do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted out there. No more blowing things up, no more permanent camps, no new mining claims, etc... I'm sure there were still some scary people out there whether there were laws or not, but I'm just as certain there were fewer after 1964 than there were before.

 

[cuzimloony]

Conspiracy theories, secret organizations protecting unknown things and places, Apaches watching and waiting for someone to get too close and chopping heads off, etc... are stories that provoke adventure, suspense and drama but more often than not, the simplest explanations are the right ones.

There's not a whole lot connecting the head to the rest of the body. Between decay, lions, bears and coyotes I'm sure it wouldn't take too long for the head of a dead body to be torn away and dragged off to be eaten somewhere else.

Why did shootings subside when the Wilderness Act went into effect? Because the "crazy" folks were no longer allowed to do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted out there. No more blowing things up, no more permanent camps, no new mining claims, etc... I'm sure there were still some scary people out there whether there were laws or not, but I'm just as certain there were fewer after 1964 than there were before.

Dont forget aliens and flying monsters. . and Im trying to see if I can get someone to take afghani's seriously and get it on the list too.....
I've known crazy people before and they don't seem obsessed with headshots or decapitations. BUT.... maybe the point is moot.
I employed a bit of AI (Chatgpt....very useful for certain courses) and here was it's opinion:

Maybe a poster on tnet isn't the best source? I find that hard to believe..... lol.
That said....neither is chatgpt, but we have another, artificial, perspective now.

 

[markmar]

That's not a hand but I approve of your tattoo. Very nice. I really like pirate themes Are you big into pirate treasure stories marcmar? I used to live in Tampa, FL....a city founded by pirates.

Ok, edited into arm. I'm not a fan of pirates treasures stories, they are almost similar. Pirates were named by the country which was robbed, and not by the country which supported them. Supporters would name them pirates only when "pirates" would forget to pay the " fifth" and then they would have the same fate as the Jesuits in the New World.
Robberies on other countries wealth applies and todays, but they are not named pirates anymore.

 

[cuzimloony]

Ok, edited into arm. I'm not a fan of pirates treasures stories, they are almost similar. Pirates were named by the country which was robbed, and not by the country which supported them. Supporters would name them pirates only when "pirates" would forget to pay the " fifth" and then they would have the same fate as the Jesuits in the New World.
Robberies on other countries wealth applies and todays, but they are not named pirates anymore.

"One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter."
Pirate is a fun name though!!
Arrrrrgggggh matey!!!

 

[Cubfan64]

"One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter."
Pirate is a fun name though!!
Arrrrrgggggh matey!!!

I've got a co-worker with the last name "Yarr." We try very hard not to give him a rough time since he survived an entire childhood of pirate references

 

[Idahodutch]

Im not sure where the Black Hand stuff came from (maybe you meant Hidden Hand?). Im also not sure Apaches would be exclusively headshotting and beheading either. That is a symbolic pattern meant to send a message, imo....not a native one. Were the Apache's known for beheading the Hopi? I don't think so.... Violent sure. Focusing on the head? I don't think so....... (I honestly dont know, hence I dont THINK so). I would tentatively (until more light is shed) disagree that these would be apache holdouts up until the 1980's....
My conspiracy leaning mind tends to this: Some area was being protected for about 100 years ish and anytime someone got close, they either lost their brain (gunshot) or their whole head. Then when the AZ made the Wilderness Area eliminating any chance of a major recovery, well..... no need to protect it anymore. Uncle Sam does it now.
But I could be wrong. It could be Waltz relatives, or Apache, or Peraltas, or aliens, or random cowboys, or treasure hunters, or 6-foot flying Whiskey Springs monsters, or little people, or Aztec, or thunder Gods, or KCG or Mexicans or Afghani's (why not!) Add it to the list boys!

When I was young and out about in the supers, I remember hearing stories of mysterious figures perched up high, maybe over on a ridge, but never quite able to make them out. …… WATCHING

I never heard first hand of “black or hidden” hands being left overnight, but somewhere out there there are some that somebody left behind. I have not personally seen them though. 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

[SPARTANOC]

I think Spartan was quoting me. I misspoke. It's "Black Legion". Wayne did a Youtube video on it.

Yes - thank you Jim, it was Black Legion', is what was meant.

There really isn't much on the topic - but Joe Ribaudo on a different forum DID explain their existence and apparently had seen 2 of them.

-SpartanOC

 

[Idahodutch]

Conspiracy theories, secret organizations protecting unknown things and places, Apaches watching and waiting for someone to get too close and chopping heads off, etc... are stories that provoke adventure, suspense and drama but more often than not, the simplest explanations are the right ones.

There's not a whole lot connecting the head to the rest of the body. Between decay, lions, bears and coyotes I'm sure it wouldn't take too long for the head of a dead body to be torn away and dragged off to be eaten somewhere else.

Why did shootings subside when the Wilderness Act went into effect? Because the "crazy" folks were no longer allowed to do whatever they wanted whenever they wanted out there. No more blowing things up, no more permanent camps, no new mining claims, etc... I'm sure there were still some scary people out there whether there were laws or not, but I'm just as certain there were fewer after 1964 than there were before.

1964?

Cubfan, we’re you intending to write 1964?

 

[SPARTANOC]

Here's a portion of what was defined on that other forum:

["Can anyone reliably define the "Black Legion" for me ?"

I would guess that you are one of the few people who does not need someone to do that for you, but I will.

The Black Legion is a group of Native Americans, most likely Apache but not beyond a doubt. They are know by a few as The Black Legion, but most likely have no name for themselves.
They have threatened people with "death" if they did not stay "out of the mountains". They often show themselves (implied threat) but do not make direct contact.
The purpose of this group is unknown, but only those who have worked around Black Top Mountain, that I have personal knowledge of, have actually seen them.
They dress "all in black". All that have been seen, are above average in size.
While their work in the mountains may be benign, their contact with others who are around Black Top is not.
A few who have claimed they do not exist, know that they do. I would assume that would include you, although you would not call a spade a spade here. By any other name, they are still "The Black Legion".

Best I can do, and those who know of the group will not define them in any manner, publicly.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo]

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Yes - thank you Jim, it was Black Legion', is what was meant.

There really isn't much on the topic - but Joe Ribaudo on a different forum DID explain their existence and apparently had seen 2 of them.

-SpartanOC

I just started the Wayne video.
Salvatore just said he had to face off against seven of the black legion...
Oh boy.....
I'll finish the rest later.....
In the meantime, Ill add them to my list

"Masonic conspiracies, no way no how.....but have you heard of the black legion??" Hahahah I dont even know what to think anymore. Lol

"I cant work like this!" -Richard Dreyfus

I love this place
Not in jest. I really do.

 

[SPARTANOC]

I just started the Wayne video.
Salvatore just said he had to face off against seven of the black legion...
Oh boy.....
I'll finish the rest later.....
In the meantime, Ill add them to my list

"Masonic conspiracies, no way no how.....but have you heard of the black legion??" Hahahah I dont even know what to think anymore. Lol

"I cant work like this!" -Richard Dreyfus

I love this place
Not in jest. I really do.

Its a gift that keeps on giving....

 

[SPARTANOC]

I just started the Wayne video.
Salvatore just said he had to face off against seven of the black legion...
Oh boy.....
I'll finish the rest later.....
In the meantime, Ill add them to my list

"Masonic conspiracies, no way no how.....but have you heard of the black legion??" Hahahah I dont even know what to think anymore. Lol

"I cant work like this!" -Richard Dreyfus

I love this place
Not in jest. I really do.

Joe Ribaudo did pass away back in 2020 I believe. They way he spoke about the Black Legion, is that he was completely convinced based on a personal experience as well as a close friend - who apparently had a face-to-face encounter.

It is hard to believe that the "group" exists. Personally I couldn't tell you differently, but as I've stated in past posts - I keep an opened mind on most things brought up for discussion.

Do I think I'll ever encounter the Black Legion, doubt it. Do I believe there are people trying to protect their interests, I do.

-SpartanOC

 

[cuzimloony]

Joe Ribaudo did pass away back in 2020 I believe. They way he spoke about the Black Legion, is that he was completely convinced based on a personal experience as well as a close friend - who apparently had a face-to-face encounter.

It is hard to believe that the "group" exists. Personally I couldn't tell you differently, but as I've stated in past posts - I keep an opened mind on most things brought up for discussion.

Do I think I'll ever encounter the Black Legion, doubt it. Do I believe there are people trying to protect their interests, I do.

-SpartanOC

Im currently reading Joes posts concerning some symbols on South Butte by me (just south of the Sups, by the coke ovens).
Interesting guy with interesting things to say.

 

[SPARTANOC]

Im currently reading Joes posts concerning some symbols on South Butte by me (just south of the Sups, by the coke ovens).
Interesting guy with interesting things to say.

Yes, fascinating guy and was full of knowledge. His writings were some of the first things I read while getting into all of this, some years back...

 

[cuzimloony]

Im just past 1/3 of the way through the Wayne Tuttle Black Legion video (the longer one, without Sal) and he's talking about the Freemasons.
Lol
Nothing of importance, he's just making an analogy.....but I thought it was funny.

Singing in my head : "It's a small world after all....It's a small, small world..."

 

[cuzimloony]

"...generally it's just looked upon as like, if there is some entity or something like that, most people that associate it with that don't see it the way WE (emphasis mine) would see it from the stories concerning the superstitions. And it's probably an unknown group of individuals that just loosely are affiliated in some way and then generationally it passes along. It makes sense 'cause now if you read all these stories and books, and you look at those little bits and pieces and you try to write them out and you look at it, it does definitely correlate....
Wayne Tuttle - Chasing Legends 255: The Black Legion

Great video....
2 thoughts. Wayne seems to be saying:
a) most people would think the culprits are "an unknown group, loosely affiliated and generational" and that THAT idea MAKES SENSE when you look at the stories. It correlates, as he put it. But I think he is poopooing that idea in favor of,
3) Dutchhunters (the WE emphasized above) don't see it that way....they see the "mystical apache spirits" part as more likely, or at least as a key part of the story. This, in part, is based on his other Black Legion video where the Black Legion is described as having 3 inch wide heads and black fire coming off their arms.

Am I seeing what I want to see or am I understanding what he said? Honest answers only Starts around the 18 minute mark.

 

[SPARTANOC]

"...generally it's just looked upon as like, if there is some entity or something like that, most people that associate it with that don't see it the way WE (emphasis mine) would see it from the stories concerning the superstitions. And it's probably an unknown group of individuals that just loosely are affiliated in some way and then generationally it passes along. It makes sense 'cause now if you read all these stories and books, and you look at those little bits and pieces and you try to write them out and you look at it, it does definitely correlate....
Wayne Tuttle - Chasing Legends 255: The Black Legion

Great video....
2 thoughts. Wayne seems to be saying:
a) most people would think the culprits are "an unknown group, loosely affiliated and generational" and that THAT idea MAKES SENSE when you look at the stories. It correlates, as he put it. But I think he is poopooing that idea in favor of,
3) Dutchhunters (the WE emphasized above) don't see it that way....they see the "mystical apache spirits" part as more likely, or at least as a key part of the story. This, in part, is based on his other Black Legion video where the Black Legion is described as having 3 inch wide heads and black fire coming off their arms.

Am I seeing what I want to see or am I understanding what he said? Honest answers only Starts around the 18 minute mark.

Exactly what are you referring to - at the 18 minute mark? I just watched the video starting that the 18 minute point.

 

[cuzimloony]

Exactly what are you referring to - at the 18 minute mark? I just watched the video starting that the 18 minute point.

Oh, well I'm referring to his quote, that I wrote out above.
Paraphrasing:
"Most people would say this is a loosely organized, generational group because that makes sense when you look at things..." more or less...
"However, us dutchhunters would lean more toward the spiritual apache watchmen side of things," because in his other video the Black Legion was described in "spiritual or mystical" terms.
Obviously I'm paraphrasing, but his whole quote is above in #218 or you can go right to the 20min mark in the video. I said 18min originally so you guys would have a bit of context.