The Peralta Stones

[Jim Hatt]

There is a great deal I don't know about the Peralta Stones, and apparently you are not willing to provide a free education. I can't say that I blame you either, for there are people who would love to pick your brain and may well be hoping that you will post some critical info due to this debate so I can understand why you seem reluctant to put everything on the table.

Good Morning Roy,

There is a wealth of information to be gained by simply removing the chaff and examining the wheat that is left. Mike and I have repeated ourselves many times, in our attempt to remove a lot of the chaff for you. But you keep picking it back up and throwing it right back in with the wheat again.

re: "apparently you are not willing to provide a free education"

A good deal of the education (The wheat) that you seek, has already been laid out before you in the preceding pages here, and in other forums and websites. (ie: DUSA and 1oro1). You can either accept the results of all the work Mike and I have put into reaching our conclusions, or you can dismiss it, do your own research, and form your own conclusions.

There is no such thing as a "Free education". Even when it is presented to you without cost. It requires an investment of time and effort on your part, to absorb and understand it.

To date... I cannot see where you have accepted a single thing either one of us have told you. What is that old saying? "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink"... or something like that.

Best,

Jim

 

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[Springfield]

Springfield, Gollum, SH and anyone else interested...

"Tignas" is well aquainted with the Stone Maps (Peralta Stones) and according to him he indeed was referring directly to them as the "documents" on the WorldReference language forum. At this point, the hope that there was another document out there with the same language as the stones appears to be nil.

I pointed out a link to this forum and the posts that led to why I had searched for him. It's strictly up to him if he chooses to post here or not.

That's pretty much all I can say.

I was wondering if anyone would be interested enough to try to contact this person. Good, it sounds like you were, even though there's an odd air of 'secrecy' about your comments that indicates that you may have more to say, but won't. Hate those red flags. I guess we have to rely on you speaking for 'Tignas' until he chooses to speak for himself. I hope he does.

 

[Cubfan64]

Springfield, Gollum, SH and anyone else interested...

"Tignas" is well aquainted with the Stone Maps (Peralta Stones) and according to him he indeed was referring directly to them as the "documents" on the WorldReference language forum. At this point, the hope that there was another document out there with the same language as the stones appears to be nil.

I pointed out a link to this forum and the posts that led to why I had searched for him. It's strictly up to him if he chooses to post here or not.

That's pretty much all I can say.

I was wondering if anyone would be interested enough to try to contact this person. Good, it sounds like you were, even though there's an odd air of 'secrecy' about your comments that indicates that you may have more to say, but won't. Hate those red flags. I guess we have to rely on you speaking for 'Tignas' until he chooses to speak for himself. I hope he does.

The "secrecy" is nothing of great importance. It's more a case of someone who has developed his own theories and doesn't care to get involved in discussions over who's theory has more merit. I sense that he's more interested in just working on his own theories and doing research to support or disprove it as he goes along rather than trying to argue for or against his own.

He didn't share any "bombshells" with me, but I promised I wouldn't share any of his theories publicly.

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

[Esta Bereda es Peligroza - Yo Boy 18 Lugares - Busca el Mapa - Busca el Coazon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above phrase appears on a document which dates from 1650. The language is Castilian, as spoken in the Americas during the Spanish Colonial period. Can anyone accurately translate this to English? Thanks.]

I am at a loss to figure out why anyone familiar with the Stone Maps would need to advertise for someone to translate the words to English. Every book that has ever included them has given the translation.

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Paul,

[Esta Bereda es Peligroza - Yo Boy 18 Lugares - Busca el Mapa - Busca el Coazon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above phrase appears on a document which dates from 1650. The language is Castilian, as spoken in the Americas during the Spanish Colonial period. Can anyone accurately translate this to English? Thanks.]

I am at a loss to figure out why anyone familiar with the Stone Maps would need to advertise for someone to translate the words to English. Every book that has ever included them has given the translation.

Joe

Joe,

Everyone works their theories from a multitude of angles sometimes even asking a question they already know the answer to just to see if there are other interpretations (I'm not saying that's the case here because I don't know - just offering a guess).

Notice that the site the question was posed on has NOTHING to do with treasure hunting but instead is simply a site devoted to languages.

I really don't want to speak for anyone else here though - that's unfair of me and can lead to problems. Everyone is going to either have to believe what I said above, or do their own search to locate him and ask him yourselves .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning my buddy Joe: You asked --> am at a loss to figure out why anyone familiar with the Stone Maps would need to advertise for someone to translate the words to English. Every book that has ever included them has given the translation.
***************

All you have to do is to read the Molino documents as to why, there many different translations, most leading to different conclusions or targets.

If I may be boring, the Tayopa documents are loaded with incorrect translations also. One reason why it wasn't found for 400 years.

Also, please don't forget the possible "8" mis-interpretation

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Jim: you posted to Oro --> To date... I cannot see where you have accepted a single thing either one of us have told you. What is that old saying? "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink"... or something like that
**********

Err, ah, not wishing to be disruptive, but doesn't that apply to both of you 'also'? Since neither of you have actually deciphered it, obviously, then something must be wrong with your theory. So instead of defending it, why not find where it is wrong?

Don't ever down play either Beth or Roy, they are both extremely sharp, thorough, and have my confidence.

See my last post.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Jim Hatt]

Since neither of you have actually deciphered it, obviously, then something must be wrong with your theory. So instead of defending it, why not find where it is wrong?


Don Jose de La Mancha

Don Jose,

That is a bit presumptive isn't it? Who are you, to announce what I have deciphered, and what I have not?

The only thing wrong with my theory, is that it is not finished yet amigo.

Unlike some treasure hunters... I never make claims to have solved something, until I have the gold in my hand to show.
Which may have happened once or twice already, and I just haven't announced it in public yet.

Best,

Jim

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

[That is a bit presumptive isn't it? Who are you to announce, what I have deciphered and what I have not?
The only thing wrong with my theory is that it is not finished yet amigo.

Unlike some treasure hunters... I never make claims to have solved something, until I have the gold in my hand to show.
Which may have happened once or twice already, and I just haven't announced it in public yet.]

I know that Jim's statement holds a lot of truth. I believe I could dig up an email from way back in 2002 that made the same presumptions. For that matter, I could find the same thing from this very year. It's a common ailment that we are all the last ones to see in ourselves. That would, of course, include me.

You are indeed a sad sack to make such a presumptive assumption about someone you have never even met. Everyone knows that judgements made strictly from Internet contact, often turn out to be far from the truth.

If I had gold from the Superstitions, I would not even hint at the possibility. Ya need seven years to get beyond the law.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

Don Jose,

[That is a bit presumptive isn't it? Who are you to announce, what I have deciphered and what I have not?
The only thing wrong with my theory is that it is not finished yet amigo.

Unlike some treasure hunters... I never make claims to have solved something, until I have the gold in my hand to show.
Which may have happened once or twice already, and I just haven't announced it in public yet.]

I know that Jim's statement holds a lot of truth. I believe I could dig up an email from way back in 2002 that made the same presumptions. For that matter, I could find the same thing from this very year. It's a common ailment that we are all the last ones to see in ourselves. That would, of course, include me.

You are indeed a sad sack to make such a presumptive assumption about someone you have never even met. Everyone knows that judgements made strictly from Internet contact, often turn out to be far from the truth.

If I had gold from the Superstitions, I would not even hint at the possibility. Ya need seven years to get beyond the law.

Take care,

Joe

Joe,

I have to agree with you here. If I knew for a fact that I had correctly deciphered the maps, you might even see me publicly saying that due to some new evidence, I now believe them to be fakes! HAHAHA

Seven years for the LAW, but there is no time limit for the IRS! I looked into that several years ago.

RDT,

What I think Jim was referring to regarding Roy was that in the face of many years of research on my part and many more on his (Jim's), we have both accumulated a lot of evidence on the subject of the Stone Maps. One of the most obvious is the whole Bob Corbin/FBI Story, in which we have an unassailable witness (Bob Corbin) who is told by an FBI Agent that it was the belief of the FBI that the Stone Maps were at least 100 years old (in 1969). Roy would rather believe the FBI pulled that number out of their a$$ and chooses to believe the thoughts of the Desert Archaeology Crew who only gave the stones a very cursory examination. The other problem I had with the Desert Archaeology Story was right in the beginning. They believed the stones were not authentic. If you want the quote, I can get it for you, but it's not in front of me. People tend to look for evidence that supports their personal views. Their examination was far from unbiased.

The biggest problems I had with their story is that they just stated things without any explanation. (Machine Sanding; what is the difference between machine sanding and manual sanding, Drill Dimple Marks; what is the difference between electric drill dimples and hand drill dimples). Little things like that.

I contacted several geologists from two different colleges and four large companies trying to find an answer to those questions.

I WILL TELL YOU WHAT I FOUND OUT:

1. Hand vs. Machine Sanding: Unless the maker used an orbital (not D/A) sander with a heavy grit sandpaper, there is no way to tell the difference. Hand sanding can be either back-and-forth or in-a-circle. The back-and-forth would look like belt sanding, while circular motions would look like an orbital or dual action sander.

2. Drill Dimple Marks: The Desert Archaeology Folks said they saw drill dimple marks, and because electric drills weren't used until the mid-1900s, they had to be of recent origin. What made them think an electric drill made the dimples? Hand drills had been used for centuries. On rocks that old, there would be no way to tell the difference between dimples made by a an electric or hand drill.

As far as them being the only degreed people willing to put their names on their opinions, I always remember one of those TV Shows from about twenty years ago about Giant Squid. I remember watching a couple of people with VERY advanced degrees working at very prestigious institutions who said that there was absolutely no way Giant Squid existed. All the stories were just old sailor folk tales without any basis in fact. I wonder what happened to those PROFESSIONALS now that`we have pulled up about a dozen or so of them?

Best-Mike

 

[Jim Hatt]

Mike,

Unless I am mistaken... Wasn't it also a whole string of "Expert" witness testimonies that got O.J. acquitted?

Now... About those... Blankety-Blank-Blank "DIMPLES"...

Below are links to high resolution photos (My own photos of the original stones) from the DUSA forums that you can zoom in on (after they come up, by HOLDING your CTRL key and rolling your mouse wheel forward). You can zoom in on them far enough to see inside the grooves. If anybody can see any "Dimples" in the grooves, please let me know where they are, because I have never found any.

Please Note:These photos are watermarked and under the protection of Copyright Notice, so please do not reproduce them and post them anyplace else, or use them in any publications without the written permission of myself. (Absolutely nothing wrong with you downloading and using them for your own study purposes though)

Thanks, Jim




HORSE MAP
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc73/jimhatt/Stone Maps/High/HorseHigh1.jpg

PRIEST MAP
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc73/jimhatt/Stone Maps/High/PriestHigh1.jpg

TRAIL MAPS
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc73/jimhatt/Stone Maps/High/TrailHigh2.jpg


Best,

Jim

 

[gollum]

Mike,

Unless I am mistaken... Wasn't it also a whole string of "Expert" witness testimonies that got O.J. acquitted?

BUT HE WAS INNOCENT!!!!!

Best-Mike

 

[Jim Hatt]

Can't argue with that... He proved it in court!

 

[Oroblanco]

Muchas gracias amigo Don Jose for the kind words, I appreciate your support.

I have been looking for something that will 'tip the balance' on the Peralta Stones, and so far no one wants to post an expert opinion, published with the name of the expert that says yes, they are genuine, over 160 years old etc to refute the four opinions that say they are a modern work. No I don't say that Bob Corbin is a liar, in fact I believe that he is remembering it very well - but we have only his third-hand overheard remark, and which we have NO idea how they got the "at least 100 years old" and it could have been just a WAG based on seeing the '1847' on them. The stones had been heavily scrubbed clean anyway before the FBI ever got hold of them, so just how do we suppose they were going to run any kinds of tests on them? I even have a "possible" that can SUPPORT the Peralta Stones too - those drill-dimples; what if Tumlinson took an electric drill and ran it through the old engravings, with an eye to clean them out? I don't claim that he did this, and no I haven't seen any such "rumor" that he did, just one more possibility for which we have no absolute answers. So there could be modern drill marks on them, put there by the finder! Likewise with a sander or grinder, we don't know for a fact what Tumlinson DID when he cleaned the stones, we are assuming it was soap and water, maybe a sponge and brush but who can say for sure? Maybe the very marks seen by the four experts that led them to conclude a modern origin, were put there not by the maker but by Tumlinson in a clumsy, over-eager and rough cleaning job. I have seen some rare artifacts that got pretty much ruined by an over-eager cleaning job (in one example, a rare WW I US commando knife got the wire-brush + dremel treatment, removing ALL of the markings and putting ugly scratches all over it) and we can imagine that someone who found such curiosities as the Peralta Stones might well be pretty excited.

Something tipped the balance for Gollum and Jim Hatt and many others, not sure what for every person (it is likely different anyway) and I really don't understand the hostile attitude we so often see, when ever someone just doesn't believe in the Peralta Stones. You would think the believers would be thrilled that fewer believers = fewer competitors will be trying to solve the puzzle and trekking through the Superstitions *(or Utah or Indiana or wherever) but instead there is a real negative reaction.

I like Jim's idea of testing the GLUE - it very well could provide that 'tidbit' that can tilt the balance for the Peralta stones and shouldn't cause even a tiny bit of damage to the actual engravings. Maybe we will have more answers if we just wait!

Good luck and good hunting to you all, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening Jim my friend; you posted -->Who are you, to announce what I have deciphered, and what I have not?
************

Cause I am ME, hehe, seriously, if you had, you certainly wouldn't be playing around in here chancing a slip, or calling undue attention to it or yourself.

In my case, I have the property titled.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI CJ mi future coffee drinking buddy: You posted -->You are indeed a sad sack to make such a presumptive assumption about someone you have never even met. Everyone knows that judgements made strictly from Internet contact, often turn out to be far from the truth.
******************

sigh story of my life ehhehe don' t forget the coffee if I can make it to the junta this year. Maybe we can drag Beth & Oro also?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

You are indeed a sad sack to make such a presumptive assumption about someone you have never even met. Everyone knows that judgements made strictly from Internet contact, often turn out to be far from the truth.

Yes this is wise advice indeed; in person I am nothing like the way it may seem by internet communications. Most people act like they are repelled on first sight and run away, but I figure that really is just that they are so overcome by the powerful attraction, they don't want to embarrass themselves. That is just the men - women are another story! (They chase me all the time, playfully shouting such teasing things as "Get out of here you bum" etc but we all know what they really mean! )
Oroblanco

 

[Jim Hatt]

Evening Jim my friend; you posted -->Who are you, to announce what I have deciphered, and what I have not?
************

Cause I am ME, hehe, seriously, if you had, you certainly wouldn't be playing around in here chancing a slip, or calling undue attention to it or yourself.

In my case, I have the property titled.

Don Jose de La Mancha

Evening Don Jose my friend,

In spite of what you think you have all figured out, or whatever your rationale for it is... I will thank you to leave any posting of announcements about what I may or may not know to me.

I think I am a little closer to the source on that one than you are.

Best,

Jim

P.S. IF you have the property titled... And IF the Tayopa is on said property... And you know where it is... Why then, aren't you out there mining it, and posting photos every day of the gold within, instead of spending so much time on the internet ruffling my feathers?

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

So far only one person in this conversation has provided any tangible evidence in support of the Stone Maps being maps of anything.......anywhere. That would be me. Everyone else is whistling in the dark.

I don't know that you have ever even been in the Superstitions, and your only expertise is in the documented history of the maps, and a great deal of hearsay.

I understand that I may have missed something over the years, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

If talk is all it takes to solve the Stone Maps, than I reckon the've been solved a long time ago. If someone has a marked trail that leads to the center of the heart, as well as mine does, show us.....something, anything. Otherwise, my map is the best evidence available. Everything else remains empty claims or........looks kinda close.

Am I wrong?

On the other hand, I like what you have done.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI jim wanna see the title? There are tons of pictures in here on TN, go look at them.

You posted --> ... I will thank you to leave any posting of announcements about what I may or may not know to me.
*********
Perhaps I am naive, but doesn't that apply to your opinion of others in the LDM / Peralta stones search also?
==================================================

You also posted --> I think I am a little closer to the source on that one than you are
**********
with out a doubt, since I am only idly curious on it, I never intend to set foot in the superstitions let alone go looking for the LDM.
====================================================
You also posted -->P.S. IF you have the property titled... And IF the Tayopa is on said property... And you know where it is... Why then, aren't you out there mining it,
***********
Do you have the slightest idea what is involved in opening a mine then putting it into production? It generally takes 5 - 10 years to complete the various studies, in addition to completing the infra structure. Besides I never intend to open it up. It is to be kept as it is, and the surrounding land as a monument for the future. I will be content with the main deposit and my other mines.

Don Jose de La Mancha

See the assay results of my favorite, La Escondida --->