The Peralta Stones

Jim Hatt said:
You will have to excuse Joe. He has already completely solve the stone maps and concluded that they are fakes.
Yet he keeps coming up with things like the cave of gold bars, that support the idea that they are authentic, and everything is right where it should be.

Joe obviously has himself firmly planted on both sides of the fence, just to ensure that he can claim to have been right all along no matter what the end result is.

Just my own humble opinion...
Click to expand...
Completely irrelevant, belittling - and if anybody had written this on DUSA you would immediately have given him the boot!
Why is it that _you_ can do what you wont allow others to do?? What is it that makes _you_ so special?

Just curious ...

@ the moderators:
I humbly apologize for the above which has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject title. I shall promise _not_ to do it again!
 

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Hey Loke,

Put your name at the bottom of your post and I will consider giving you an answer.

I do not reply to arguments from the darkness or from behind a veil.

For all I know, you could be Joe using another identity. Give me a name that i can verify.

Jim Hatt

BTW... This is not DUSA. Glad you noticed the difference. :icon_thumleft:
 

mrs.oroblanco said:
.... You may disagree all you like, Springfield - but it doesn't make you right - it makes you wrong.
.... We know this:

IF IT IS MEANT TO BE A MAGNETIC DECLINATION, THEN, BECAUSE OF MAGNETIC DRIFT, THE MEASUREMENT IS NO LONGER VALID IF THE STONES ARE REAL

etc., etc, etc

..... Its as simple as that.

Beth
Click to expand...

I didn't realize that it was a mistake on my part to disagree with you - sorry if I offended you. However, it seems to me we're actually saying the same thing. And your uppercase quote is exactly the reason I don't believe the 8-N-P is a magnetic declination annotation. Declination variation over time was old news for the Phoenicians, old during the rennaisance, old in 1903 and old now. Real old.
 

Springfield,

When the answer is simple, those who can't see it will do everything in their power to convince others that it is too complicated to understand.

K.I.S.S. is the secret to the Stone Maps......IMHO.

Take care,

Joe
 

Good afternoon Jim: You posted -->It is a totally different thing to let yourself go running around in circles out in the mountains.
***********

I know exactly what you mean Jim, I learned in the Yucatan / Belize jungles, and even more so while exploring in the barrancas of north western Mexico. There were times that I didn't see another human for weeks at a time. That is freedom sigh.

For those that have forgotten here is a bit of data from my USAF Pilots manual.


Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Loke said:
Jim Hatt said:
You will have to excuse Joe. He has already completely solve the stone maps and concluded that they are fakes.
Yet he keeps coming up with things like the cave of gold bars, that support the idea that they are authentic, and everything is right where it should be.

Joe obviously has himself firmly planted on both sides of the fence, just to ensure that he can claim to have been right all along no matter what the end result is.

Just my own humble opinion...
Click to expand...
Completely irrelevant, belittling - and if anybody had written this on DUSA you would immediately have given him the boot!
Why is it that _you_ can do what you wont allow others to do?? What is it that makes _you_ so special?

Just curious ...

@ the moderators:
I humbly apologize for the above which has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject title. I shall promise _not_ to do it again!
Click to expand...

Loke,

Over the years many people who have become good friends have spoken up to support me. Each time it happens they come under attack, and are accused of being me. One person with many identities is usually where it all comes from.

One man that I never met, but became good friends with was Bill711. Bill died, but he's someone I'll always remember with fond memories.

Many thanks Friend,

Joe
 

@Jim Hatt:
The name is Per Borg-Hansen - does that satisfy you?
And yes - I'm also LoneStar on DUSA but I doubt I'll visit there again ... feel free to delete me.

@Joe,
Yup - I remember Bill ... I had more than one good chuckle reading his posts ... he was the salt of the earth!
 

HI again: Frankly, I fail to see why so much mental power is being wasted on compass headings. If you have the starting point, then it is fairly easy to simply compensate visually, if not, then what good does it do to have a compass point? On an open trackless desert, or at sea, Perhaps, but in an area absolutely full of points ???

Mitchell was a prolific treasure story writer. I enjoy them, but must say don't expect to find the truth there, partial, yes, but .

Among others that I find fault with, is his tale of being at Tayopa. According to his description, he was never within 100 + kilometers of 'The' Tayopa.

What fascinates me about Mitchell, is that he is his own worst enemy. He successfully destroys any proof of success, and documents every time, soo that he cannot return.


Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Like I just told someone in another thread, "Sometimes we read too much into something."

I am looking at a few different things as far as stone map solutions. Take logical steps and look at every bit of evidence that you find. Just go where the provable evidence takes you, but instead of starting with one theory and trying to find evidence to support it, I am starting out with things I can see and touch, and begin there.

Not ready to post anything yet, but I have already come up with several things that were pretty evident before, but I just hadn't looked at things from the right angle. EVERYTHING is all about perspective. That's all I'll say for now.

Best-Mike
 

Per,

Glad I can use your name again.

Bill and I became very good friends. He liked to playing the dumb Okie on the Forum, but he was very well read and could be just as "intellectual" as anyone. He could laugh at himself while beating me up for getting too pompous. Towards the end, when he had been silent for too long, I sent him a PM that went unread. Eventually I started calling but no one ever answered the phone. Couple of weeks went by, and I called one last time. His brother answered and told me they had just buried him.

I had never met or spoken to him, but felt like we were simpatico. His humor and friendship has been sorely missed. Is it possible to make a real friend over the Internet? Fact is, it's happened to me a number of times. Friends I know I can trust.

Take care,

Joe
 

Cactusjumper wrote
IMHO, The Stone Maps were likely created by Ted DeGrazia with Chuck Aylor, helping on the map portion.
Click to expand...

Was DeGrazia ever seen making fake Spanish maps, inscriptions etc? Was he ever known to make fakes of anything? If he was seen creating fakes, I would be able to bump DeGrazia higher on the 'suspect' list, but so far the only 'fake' I can see that can be attributed to him is the burning (tax protest) of his artwork, which some have said was not his paintings at all but fakes. I am not sure that would even be the same thing as creating a set of fake carved stone maps. Thank you in advance.

Cactusjumper also wrote
Is it possible to make a real friend over the Internet? Fact is, it's happened to me a number of times. Friends I know I can trust.
Click to expand...

I have to agree on this one; the ones I feel that I can trust are a very short list, but they have stood the test of time and I still hope to meet them in person one day. Life keeps getting in the way of plans, unfortunately.

Oroblanco

"The only job that you can start at the top is post hole digging." --Pat Parelli
 

Springfield,

I'm not sure at what point you "assumed" that you offended me - I wasn't offended - I just think that you are not grasping what I am trying to say.

If people like Jim Hatt and others are "assuming" that 8-N-P is Tumlinsons 8 paces north, then, my concern would not apply. Why anyone would assume Tumlinson was right, is a whole 'nother question. (he didn't find it, did he? - Then he didn't figure out accurately what the package of stones was saying), and he looked for how long? Or are we to assume that the 8 paces would be where the next stone was? Both ideas are far fetched - for a man who died before he found anything.

My point was directly related to many comments on it being a "heading" that can not apply - or, if it does, then has to be re-calculated, now, in 2010. So, if it is not a magnetic compass declination, then, its not an issue. Then, 8 points would simply mean a 90 degree turn. West's idea,
which was about a magnetic declination - is what I was referring to. If West was correct - then you could not find it by that, unless it was re-calculated.

But - Springfield - get a little real - back in the 1700's, they never even considered the idea of drift. They DID consider continental drift - which is different, totally. They knew about declination - they did not know about drift, which is one of the reasons they didn't change the declination lines on maps.

If you believe West was wrong, then it is moot.

Beth
 

Roy,

The rumors are rampant that Ted DeGrazia drew treasure maps before he died. Some people, like myself, also believe he carved the Stone Maps. I don't know any of it for a fact. It's been said that he drew the map that is in Bob Wards book, showing where he buried his paintings. It's also been rumored that those paintings were 18 treasure maps showing the LDM. Lots of stories, no real facts.....that I know of.

I can tell you that he drew a picture of Indian "Pictographs" which had the word "DON" on it. In the same book, "DeGrazia and his Mountain...", he drew a priest (Kino) riding towards the Superstitions and holding a cross in front of him.

It's been awhile since I read Carol Locust's book, but I know that she was with DeGrazia in the Superstitions, when he burned his paintings. She mentions the names of others who were with them, but Bob Ward is not among those named. If you read her book, I believe you will come away with the same impression of truth that I did.

I have said that it is my opinion that DeGrazia was likely involved in creating the Stone Maps. I don't know it for a fact, but I have seen enough circumstantial evidence to make it a strong possibility, at least for me.

Don't have any more to give you, other than what I have mentioned before, so that will have to do.

Take care,

Joe
 

Hi Joe:
Have you (or anyone else reading this) any idea if DeGrazia,Ward,or Aylor were users of metal detectors.Although I do not own a copy of Ward's book,I do have a copy of the map,which Roger graciously e-mailed me last year.This year I took the short drive to the area to have a look around.A couple of guys with detectors were working that area.I don't think that they were familiar with Ward's map or DeGrazia,since one would think that metal detectors would be useless for finding paintings sealed within pvc piping.What they were finding,however,were corroded steel slugs of various diameters and thicknesses about 2-3" under the surface.I didn't say anything,but what they were finding seemed to have been laid out in a straight line.I only watched them for about a half hour,then went on my way.At the time,I suspected that the slugs had been buried as a means of testing or teaching.Kinda wondering now,though. :icon_scratch:

Regards:SH.
 

Real de Tayopa said:
Mitchell was a prolific treasure story writer. I enjoy them, but must say don't expect to find the truth there, partial, yes, but .

Among others that I find fault with, is his tale of being at Tayopa. According to his description, he was never within 100 + kilometers of 'The' Tayopa.

What fascinates me about Mitchell, is that he is his own worst enemy. He successfully destroys any proof of success, and documents every time, soo that he cannot return.


Don Jose de La Mancha
Click to expand...

Morning Don Jose,

I believe you are referring to John D. Mitchell in your post.

He was not the same Mitchell we are referring to in our stone map discussions. Our Mitchell was Clearance Mitchell, who wrote his book "Superstition Treasures" using the Pen Name of Travis Marlowe.

I guess I should refer to him as Marlowe to avoid the same misunderstanding in the future.

Jim
 

mrs.oroblanco said:
.....

But - Springfield - get a little real - back in the 1700's, they never even considered the idea of drift. They DID consider continental drift - which is different, totally. They knew about declination - they did not know about drift, which is one of the reasons they didn't change the declination lines on maps.

.....

Beth
Click to expand...

This declination debate is too tedius to continue, for me at least. Every point I wanted to make has already been made. What's the point of repeating myself? You can believe what you want. If you need to be right, then fine - you're right. Let's just say we disagree on history and let it go at that.
 

somehiker said:
.... What they were finding,however,were corroded steel slugs of various diameters and thicknesses about 2-3" under the surface. I didn't say anything,but what they were finding seemed to have been laid out in a straight line. I only watched them for about a half hour,then went on my way.At the time,I suspected that the slugs had been buried as a means of testing or teaching.Kinda wondering now,though. :icon_scratch:

Regards:SH.
Click to expand...

Wow ... now THAT is interesting indeed. I assume you've mapped the location and azimuth. All permanent clues are important.
 

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