The Peralta Stones

[Quinan Bear]

thank you cactusjumper.

Oroblanco;
Now you see my problem....Who to trust?

A thought on Gold formation in the superstitions.
If you have an area that has alot of gold (Goldfields) and a volcanic eruption occures in that area. Would it not be LOGICAL to think that gold would be found within it? Could it not be possible for this area to have one particular place that has MUCH more gold then ANY other?

 

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[Oroblanco]

Roy, my friend,

You are correct in stating that magma is not generally an ore of gold, silver, or any other metal. That is also true of California. However, that is not what I said. I did however state: [The gold fields of California are a direct result of "magma".]

You should have read farther down in your article to:

"Geology
Main article: Gold in California

Gold-bearing magma rising after being subducted under the continental crustGlobal forces operating over hundreds of millions of years resulted in the large concentration of gold in California. Only gold that is concentrated can be economically recovered. Some 400 million years ago, California lay at the bottom of a large sea; underwater volcanoes deposited lava and minerals (including gold) onto the sea floor. Beginning about 200 million years ago, tectonic pressure forced the sea floor beneath the American continental mass.[129] As it sank, or subducted, below today's California, the sea floor melted into very large molten masses (magma). This hot magma forced its way upward under what is now California, cooling as it rose,[130] and as it solidified, veins of gold formed within fields of quartz.[130][131] These minerals and rocks came to the surface of the Sierra Nevada,[132] and eroded. The exposed gold was carried downstream by water and gathered in quiet gravel beds along the sides of old rivers and streams.[133] The forty-niners first focused their efforts on these deposits of gold, which had been gathered in the gravel beds by hundreds of millions of years of geologic action.[134][135]"

Take care,

Joe

My article? I posted a link to a Wiki article on magma, not CA gold. Gold in magma is so greatly disseminated, that it is generally not viable to mine it - though there are low grade gold mines which operate very well. The ore from Waltz, however is definitely not low grade nor a type of igneous rock, which is what magma cools into. While we don't have any specimens from Apache Jack's gold deposit nor Joe Deering, from the written descriptions they were both quartz with visible gold in them, not igneous rock. It may be profitable to prospect for igneous gold deposits, but not really for the individual/mom-n-pop operators.

thank you cactusjumper.

Oroblanco;
Now you see my problem....Who to trust?

A thought on Gold formation in the superstitions.
If you have an area that has alot of gold (Goldfields) and a volcanic eruption occures in that area. Would it not be LOGICAL to think that gold would be found within it? Could it not be possible for this area to have one particular place that has MUCH more gold then ANY other?

Who to trust is something you have to decide; I would only recommend being cautious about choosing partners.

Would it not be logical to think that gold would be found in an area that has a lot of volcanic eruptions? No, if it were logical, then we ought to expect to find a LOT of gold deposits in highly volcanic Hawaii. Gold deposits do occur in volcanic areas, and can be very rich; but this is more like the exception than the rule. Jacob Waltz was one of the few prospectors who was willing to risk life and limb to prospect in the Superstitions, which is not a promising area to find gold. If it were a promising area like the geology of the Vulture or the nearby Goldfield district, many more prospectors would have been combing it in the "wild west" days. Areas around volcanic regions are much more promising than the volcanoes themselves.

Oroblanco

 

[Quinan Bear]

Oroblanco;

We both know how gold is formed, this is a plus.

The Main reason that many have come and gone from the Superstitions, without finding anything is;

1.The Peraltas hid all traces of the mines and any signs of man being there, from the areas.
2.The Apaches also hid these areas from the eyes of the white man in attemp to keep them away.
3.Jacob waltz, hid the vein itself (that ran for 450 feet down the canyon), and then hid his entrance, so that it looked like the surrounding area.
4. Not all these mines are of gold.

Ways to find these mines are;

1. Each mine has a Large tall Stone or rock marking its entrance.
2. Mines on slopes, were often made just under Large stones, to keep the ground from falling in and covering the mine and to have a stone that could be used to cover the entrance.
3. Some mines are filled with water over time and will seem as a pond or undergroud stream that has broken out to the surface as a spring in some cases.
4. you will find marks on the surrounding stones. although some of the marks are a long ways away and look upon the mine area.(if you come to one of these marks and don't see anything that would match it? Then I would suggest that you climb the high point that is near, and look for the marker off in the distance).
5. These mines were mapped out by using tall points and landmarks that can be seen from a distance.
6. These directions (writen or mapped) were always done in a way that only a select few would understand them. if someone else were to find the maps or get the same directions? they would have a VERY hard or nearly imposible time understanding them enough to find the place.
7. Vegitation sometimes will reveal where the earth has been disturbed.
I could go on but you have enough to be able to find these places for yourself, I think?

I have noticed that when it comes to mines in the superstitions. People automaticly think "gold mine" but this is not always the case. I know that some of these mines are of silver and copper as well. The Stones show mines from, near Weaver's needle all the way to Brown's peak area. WAY TOO MANY mines for them all to be of gold.
Is there a "GEM" mine on the west slopes of and near Brown's peak? I found a mine location there and thought that it may be of gems and not of gold.

There are several ways to read each stone map. together they cover a large area. They show you Markers that you need to look for in order to find your view point (place where the map was made for/from), then the same map shows you the area and mine location.

I would love to show you how I found out that Weaver's needle was the place to go to in order to see some of the mines listed on the priest and horse maps. I cannot show you without revealing other things that I am not ready to show you, in fear that the vault will be found.

VAULT This places is a large open cavernest place that lies under a granite zone. A place where all the ore and gems from all the other mines, were placed into .
I have had my offer and request for a partner, on forums for quite some time now. It's getting to be a lost quest and I am about to reveal my findings to everyone. Let them find and take, what I have been trying to protect. I won't be the one losing ANYTHING but the chance to have this information and the areas in which they tell of, Protected.

Here are pics of one of the maps from other people, in which I have located the same area on google, take a look...
Thanks...

 

[Quinan Bear]

It has come to my attention that the file of those map overlays were not going through. I had to create a new email to be able to send it.
For those of you that are interested in seeing The horse map in position and have the ability to fade in and out and to zoom in on any place, can let me know and I will sens it to you.

You will be AMAZED!!! of this i'm sure. This will open your eyes at other ways of seeing things.

 

[Quinan Bear]

You all must see how google earth is a great way to view the area without realy being there.
Although not as precise but a very good representation. It is a actual photographic view of the area after all. The only down fall is when tilting stops you from seeing sheer cliffs or caves as they realy are or shadows obscure the view but it still is a very good reference before heading out.

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

Sorry, my mistake on the "article" thingie. Here is another opinion:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99242.htm

Take care,

Joe

 

[Quinan Bear]

I would like to know. Would someone be so kind as to list the different directions that are known, that lead to a mine. Such directions like those that Jacob had. I listed the ones that i could remember but I'm sure there are others that i have missed. I have read about so many different maps and mine directions, that I tend to mixed them up.
This is just a request but would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance....

I would like to add a little note that may or may not help. It is my belief that the stones work in trinity. What I mean by this is that you read the maps by doing three steps.

1. would be on a grand scale model of the land.
2. would be the stage that I showed you on the overlay file, which is the pin point area on a less grand scale.
3. Once you are at the place shown in stage 2, you then look for one of the markers that is on the stone (a horse,cross or heart). This is THE place that marks the true entrance to the mine or cache.


These markers may be OF stone as well as a drawing/etching on stone. You may also look at the oldest markers first, even those that predate 1800's by centuries in some cases.

 

[Oroblanco]

I would like to know. Would someone be so kind as to list the different directions that are known, that lead to a mine. Such directions like those that Jacob had. I listed the ones that i could remember but I'm sure there are others that i have missed. I have read about so many different maps and mine directions, that I tend to mixed them up.
This is just a request but would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance....

I would like to add a little note that may or may not help. It is my belief that the stones work in trinity. What I mean by this is that you read the maps by doing three steps.

1. would be on a grand scale model of the land.
2. would be the stage that I showed you on the overlay file, which is the pin point area on a less grand scale.
3. Once you are at the place shown in stage 2, you then look for one of the markers that is on the stone (a horse,cross or heart). This is THE place that marks the true entrance to the mine or cache.


These markers may be OF stone as well as a drawing/etching on stone. You may also look at the oldest markers first, even those that predate 1800's by centuries in some cases.

You have never read a single book on the Lost Dutchman mine? You must have read something on it? There are many, many books and articles on this lost mine amigo; the other mines are not so well documented. There was an online article which listed over 100 clues to find the LDM, but apparently it has been pulled.

You will find a great deal of information here on T-net, in this and other threads under the forum "Lost Dutchman"; likewise, you will find a lot of good information at these sites;

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/
http://www.desertusa.com <just do a search with "lost dutchman">
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Dutchman's_Gold_Mine <basic explanation, links to other articles>

I am more than a bit surprised amigo; you stated earlier, quote "the years of study that I have done unquote, so you have done all these years of research into this legend, studied those satellite images etc but never bothered to pick up a single book on the subject? Did you not bother to make notes, from what you DID read on the Lost Dutchman? I can't imagine doing something like you did in this case - I would want to find at least enough documentation to support that it ever existed in the first place, before going on to the satellite images. I do not get you amigo.
Sign me baffled,
Oroblanco

PS gosh you have got me puzzled amigo. Am I correct if I were to think that your primary source which led you into doing the sat-image search, is the Peralta Stones? If this is correct, have you considered the possibility that they may be just a rather mean hoax? Thank you in advance,

 

[Quinan Bear]

Oroblanco;

I was asking about the other discriptions. Not those of just the LDM. I have many papers in my files and, as I said. I get them all mixed up. So? Again. is there any info that is about other mines. I have found several mines and want to know if any of them would fit a discription on it's location.
As for the lost dutchman's mine directions, I have listed those that I could remember off hand and asked if there were any others that I may have forgotten.

As for the Peralta stones.... No, they are not a haox. There are too many maps in them for them not to be real. Reminds me of ancient knowledge like aztec or something, I can't quite pin point exactly who made these stone maps as of yet. If i were to be able to have asistance in some photos of the areas in question, then I may be able to determine that as well. All in all, I need more study and data to figure out who made them.

I take it you never did get my file on that overlay i did? would you like to have it Now that I have found out how to send it?

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco;

I was asking about the other discriptions. Not those of just the LDM. I have many papers in my files and, as I said. I get them all mixed up. So? Again. is there any info that is about other mines. I have found several mines and want to know if any of them would fit a discription on it's location.
As for the lost dutchman's mine directions, I have listed those that I could remember off hand and asked if there were any others that I may have forgotten.

As for the Peralta stones.... No, they are not a haox. There are too many maps in them for them not to be real. Reminds me of ancient knowledge like aztec or something, I can't quite pin point exactly who made these stone maps as of yet. If i were to be able to have asistance in some photos of the areas in question, then I may be able to determine that as well. All in all, I need more study and data to figure out who made them.

I take it you never did get my file on that overlay i did? would you like to have it Now that I have found out how to send it?

No, I never received any map/overlay, but I think you were sending it to someone else not me. I don't think it would help me to see it; however others here would probably be delighted and appreciate it. I am no expert in satellite photos amigo, and like aerial photos much better but even so there is a LOT of interpretation involved, and interpretation can be extremely wrong. Field checking, boots on the ground is my way. I don't believe the Peralta stones are what they are presented to be, and yes they can be "real maps" made by "real people" and may even lead to real treasure(s) but I seriously doubt they lead to any mines. I don't even think they are 100 years old yet.

I try to keep an open mind on this, as some have said the stones we see pictures of are not the originals etc but I have more faith in the old reliable gold pan. Even the material these maps are made of makes no sense to me, it is as if the maker(s) knew they would be displayed publicly, hence their choice of material - stone.

The big problem with the Peralta stones in my opinion is that they have been given the test and failed. If they were genuine, why then didn't Tumlinson find treasures/mines etc with them? Something is wrong about them, and you may well spend years searching before you decide they were not worth the bother. On the other hand, perhaps you have cracked the secret code, found the landmarks and are about to unearth/unveil the treasures that so many folks believe these Peralta stones are maps to? I do wish you good luck, and will be very happy to congratulate you - but I need to see ore specimen comparison that matches Waltz's ore, satellite images alone just won't ever convince me.

Gosh I sure didn't mean to blather on quite so much - I am sure that others have plenty of questions they wish to ask you, so will close here.
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Roy,

Don't let Jim see you write that! HAHAHA

There is only one thing to consider for me, until verifiable proof is found one way or another:

As stated by Bob Corbin, the longest serving and most reelected State Attorney General in the history of Arizona, and avid Dutch Hunter. He said that in the late 1960s, while he was a new attorney in the State Atty Gen's Office, while he was on business in Phoenix, a friend that knew of his interest in the Lost Dutchman told him that in one of the offices, some FBI Agents had the Peralta Stones. Corbin went and spoke with the agents. They showed him the stones and told him that it was the opinion of the FBI that the stones were "at least" 100 years old (1968-1969).

That is the gist of the statement Bob Corbin told directly to Jim Hatt (and several others). So, you either believe Bob Corbin or you don't. That is what it boils down to without any other proof. If you don't believe Bob Corbin, you can think anything you want. If you believe Bob Corbin, then you have to keep in mind the situation:

In 1968, the FBI having possession of the stones had NOTHING to do with the SEC Investigation! Boyd and Ruth Cochrane were MOEL Investors. Mitchell had purchased the stones privately from Aileen Tumlinson. They did not have anything to do with MOEL. The Cochranes believed that their investment entitled them to the stones. They sued Mitchell and Kliewald for ownership. It was during this time that Corbin saw the stones. Why the FBI had them and not the AZ State Police, I don't know, but that doesn't matter. If you believe Corbin, then you believe the FBI had possession of the stones. If you believe Corbin, then you believe the FBI Agents told him that the FBI believed the stones were "at least" 100 years old. The FBI does not guess at things like that.

Because of the nature of the stones, it is very likely that the State of Az had the FBI have the stones examined. If Tumlinson told the truth about finding them, and they were over 100 years old, they would have fallen under the Az Antiquities Act. This is what appears to have happened. Ray Grant (a curator of the Arizona Mining & Minerals Museum) wrote me and said that the stones were donated to the non profit org by order of the court (a likely occurrence if they were found to have fallen under the antiquities act). They were handed over to Mason Coggins by Boyd Cochrane in 1969.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

[As stated by Bob Corbin, the longest serving and most reelected State Attorney General in the history of Arizona, and avid Dutch Hunter. He said that in the late 1960s, while he was a new attorney in the State Atty Gen's Office, while he was on business in Phoenix, a friend that knew of his interest in the Lost Dutchman told him that in one of the offices, some FBI Agents had the Peralta Stones. Corbin went and spoke with the agents. They showed him the stones and told him that it was the opinion of the FBI that the stones were "at least" 100 years old (1968-1969).]

I find it interesting that Helen Corbin did not put that "quote" from Bob in her books. I asked him about this and, as I remember it, he did not say it was an "official" FBI position, but rather it was one (1) agent's opinion. I could be wrong, but I don't belive the FBI ever did a formal report on the Stone Maps. I will ask Bob for clarification. Do you recall which of the LDM books does have that quote?

On the other hand, if Jim Hatt said that's what Bob told him........it must be so. I will still ask him again, just to be sure. Some interesting comments can be found here: http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=869&p=15283&hilit=bob+corbin#p15283

Take care,

Joe

 

[Quinan Bear]

It's one thing to treasure hunt for caches but when it comes to finding mines, It's a whole different thing.
To find a "Cache", you need to have directions to find it.

To find a mine you can use directions given. You can also stop being a treasure hunter and become a geologist or mineralogist. Study layers of rock and how they travel through the lands. Study the fault lines and crack zones in the crust. Study where an upheaval or an overlap of rock took place.
Study where the rocks are rusty in color and for quartz veins. I could go on but, you get the picture.

With that said, take another look at this area, either by my pic or by google (which is better). Look at the land from afar and rotate the area. you will see the faults and rock conjunctions and upheavals.
If you looked at the superstitions in this way, you would understand why the goldfiends are where they are and why this place that I have shown you, is a PRIME area for a LARGE deposit of minerals.

I was once told;
" If your going to hunt for something?
you need to know the habits and ways, of what your hunting".
This is true in many ways.

 

[Quinan Bear]

It might be a good idea to acquire some Magnetic imaging maps of the superstitions, they could also help to pin point minerals.
Here is a sample of one that i have (not of that area). I thought it would give you a better idea of what I was talking about when I said I had other resources and ways to look over the area surounding those mountains.

 

[Quinan Bear]

Here is a picture of some stones that are on the superstition mountains. They tell of a journey and the sites that will be seen while on that journey. It would be nice to get a better picture to see more detail but i can read some of it.
Have any of you seen this place? can you read it? have you taken the journey?

If you don't see it, I will give clues.
From right to left;
The right stone as a whole, is an Elephant sitting ( i know its strange), along side the elephant at the bottom, is an owl looking to the left.
Next group, there is a holy man looking up and left and above him is a hosre's head looking right, a falcon facing right and an owl facing right.
Next group, has an owl facing left with a man above facing up to the right.
Last but not least, you see weaver's needle from a certain angle.

The rest would need closer pictures to decypher. These stones that I listed, are the grand view of the stones but not all is shown, you need to look within those stones, at the glyphes and markings that are on them in order to complete the journey. There may be more stones there as well, stones that we don't see.

I believe that these stones point to a very important place.

 

[Oroblanco]

Gollum wrote

Roy,

Don't let Jim see you write that! HAHAHA

What makes you think Jim doesn't know my opinion of the Peralta stones? He is not interested in debating them, and I don't have a problem with that. I doubt that it bothers Jim what my opinion is.

Quinan Bear wrote

I was once told;
" If your going to hunt for something?
you need to know the habits and ways, of what your hunting".
This is true in many ways.

Yes - just as when hunting pheasants, it helps to have a good Bird Dog!

As for these Peralta stone maps - here are 62 more treasure maps for the treasure map aficionados among us
http://www.ajpl.org/aj//museum/treasm.htm

...good luck with them, they sure can be a lot of fun and that cannot be taken away whether they are genuine or fakes. I see people get all irritated at someone who doesn't "believe in" the Peralta stones, but really amigos it is not JUST the Peralta stones, the big majority of treasure maps just lead nowhere. Even in those few examples which have proven to be 'genuine' - there is a major flaw in the map. A guy can spend a tremendous amount of time on a treasure map (not JUST the Peralta stones) and get nowhere, when they could have made more progress by other methods.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Quinan Bear]

Oroblanco wrote;
" Even in those few examples which have proven to be 'genuine' - there is a major flaw in the map. A guy can spend a tremendous amount of time on a treasure map (not JUST the Peralta stones) and get nowhere, when they could have made more progress by other methods.

This is what I have been trying to say all this time.
Thank you....
It's just strange to hear that from you Oro.

 

[Oroblanco]

Quinan Bear wrote

It's just strange to hear that from you Oro

Why should that strike you as strange? Because I said that I don't believe in the Peralta stones? I don't put a lot of faith in ANY treasure map amigo, and "other means" includes satellite photos, geologic maps, aerial images, aeromagnetic surveys, geochemical surveys, the numerous geologic studies done by various agencies of govt, old letters, newspaper articles, books etc etc etc - but the very best method of all is to be there, on the ground, with tools in hand. Proof is in the pudding, as they say.

All I said -negative- about satellite images is that you can't make judgements on them ALONE. They are obviously useful and helpful.
Oroblanco

PS edit - sheesh can't even spell "magnetic" today. Need more coffee!

 

[Quinan Bear]

Oroblanco;
I would hope you got that coffee first of all.

There is just no pleasing you, is there?

I talk about the Peralta stones you ask me how they lead to the LDM?
I talk about the LDM and you ask about the Peralta stones?
I have posted facts on the faults and geology of the Mountains and explained a bit on how they got to be and how they were visible there and You tell me the stone are fake and that my studies have no merit and they won't show anything?

You might want to try herbal tea...your a bit "jumpy"...

 

[cactusjumper]

Let's see.....Just want to make sure I have this right.

David writes:

" If your going to hunt for something?
you need to know the habits and ways, of what your hunting".

Roy writes:

"just as when hunting pheasants, it helps to have a good Bird Dog!"

It's been awhile since I did any hunting but as I remember, ya had to get out in the country where the game you were hunting liked to hang out.

Never tried it from a few thousand miles away, but I suppose that's how these young herbal tea pups might do it.

Joe Ribaudo