The Peralta Stones

[lamar]

Dear Oroblanco;
The Vatican did maintain a fleet of leased ships from at least 857AD until 1870 AD, when the main port of Civitavecchia became a part of Italy. The Papal fleet was most usually a part of the merchant Navy and was overseen by an appointed official from the Vatican.

In reality, the Vatican did phyiscally own some vessels of war, the most notable being the HHFS San Paolo and the HHFS San Pietro, both with 30 guns and both being decomissioned about 1779 AD. As an aside, HHFS stands for His Holy Father's Ship.

With extremely rare exceptions, the Papal fleet plied the trade routes of the Mediterranean and they were used to support the missions at Rhodes, Malta, Crete and Cyprus.

As far as the ports of the New World are concerned, the Papal ships did not attempt an Atlantic crossing until at least the early 1700s, when they dispatched several Papal envoys. Before this time the Vatican relied on Spanish, Portuguese and French commerical and military ships for the bulk of their traffic to and from the New World colonies.

The primary reason why the Papal fleet seldom plied the Atlantic was due to the size of it's ships. The Papal fleet consisted of mainly Mediterranean style cargo galleys which were much better suited for the Med than the rough, inconsistent waters of the open Atlantic.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

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[cactusjumper]

Good Morning Mike,

[Hey Joe,

Just shows that you didn't know CK. While he may have had a big ego, he was also a very intelligent person. A very intelligent person with a lot of money, who was also smart enough to know that if he publicized his finds, there would be legal and fiscal issues that he would have to address. Also, from my understanding, there is a LOT of information that he never put in his books. You always have to remember that he had founded Quest (a Treasure Hunting LLC). He shared some of what he knew, but kept back some of the more important stuff.
Best-Mike]
__________________________________________

It's true I didn't "know" Kenworthy. Never met the man. On the other hand, I have read his books and seen the tape of him explaining his conclusions on the Stone Maps. During that talk, he became totally confused by his own figures. The numbers made no sense, including to Chuck. That told me that his conclusions were not based on any natural progression of logic. IMHO, It was less than impressive.

The portion of your post that I highlighted are a spot on description of Bernie Madoff. Everyone who met him thought he was a great guy. You can draw your own conclusions to any parallels.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you Lamar, I was unaware that any vessel of the Papal fleet had ever crossed the Atlantic, but did not research such incidental voyages as transporting an important emissary. I would think such voyages would be rare indeed, and likely not capable of hauling along cargoes of seed wheat, barley, flour, bolts of cloth etc. At least not a large cargo of such common goods, I would expect.

I wonder if anyone has ever compiled a history of the Papal navy? Might make for an interesting project, if a person had access to the necessary records. Just musing, of course.
Oroblanco

 

[lamar]

Dear Oroblanco;
As far as I am aware, a complete and comprehensive history of the Papal fleet was written by a Dominican Brother around 1888 AD or somewhere along that time line. Let me try and chase him down and see if I can pinpoint the Brother's name, volume title and date it was published.
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Lamar: You posted -->

My friend, are you REALLY unaware that Caborca happens to be situated in a DESERT?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is quite true, but it was common practice to designate a Missions's area of influence, rather than the precise location of the actual missions buildings and grounds in correspondence such as this..

So, In practicality & actuality, if not a precise locality, Gully's remark or quote is quite correct.

It was also asked if data on the Vatican Navy is available, yes it has been chronicled various times

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Twisted Fork]

CJ,

Same influences as the Templars. More on the level of sacred than soldiers. Folks largely refuse to accept spiritual intervention of the dreamers or automatic revelation and the like in a modernised world; Such is the source and reputation of this kind of soul. Will the man who assassinates the Anti-Christ be viewed as a saint or a sinner? Is this something the Pope would appreciate or condemn? Thou shall not commit murder; not thou shall not kill. Would it be the works of God or the Devil? Many through history have been viewed as the coming Monster of Prophecy, and the wealth and power of the church as being the only power against his rise. Hoods with blades, not unlike the apostles. The Jackals going forth that precede armies in the overthrow of evil tyrants and their families. Assassins in the shadows, taking from one ear to the other. Why do you think that Christians are now viewed by our government agencies as terrorists? It goes with the territory brother; Communism. Like a monkey and his tin cup on a leash, held by a Kazar who whimsically grinds out your entertainment. After a servant of God takes out the Anti-Christ, he will rise again as Kong. The Jesuits were watching for him in the turmoil of their times; hearing the echo as he approaches.

 

[Oroblanco]

Twisted Fork wrote

Why do you think that Christians are now viewed by our government agencies as terrorists?

Well again I must respectfully disagree with this statement which sounds rather like nonsense put out by various right-wing fringe groups. Do you have some kind of proof to support this statement? Your statements viz killing an Antichrist, do you have someone in mind to fill that bill? I would point out that it would be very easy for a person to mistakenly identify someone as an Antichrist in targeting that person for elimination, and thus open the door to a real one.

Mr Fork I doubt you will provide any proof requested, however I am getting a pretty clear picture of your views. Have you entertained the possibility that you could be in error?
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Dear Gollum;
You accusingly wrote:
Are you REALLY unaware of that? Do you REALLY know nothing of Padre Kino SJ commissioning a ship to be built at Caborca? Ostensibly it was to bring cattle and supplies to Baja before he found the NorthWestern Route.


My friend, are you REALLY unaware that Caborca happens to be situated in a DESERT? And being a desert, to the very best of my knowledge, there are no large TREES, as trees require a substantial amount of rainfall annually in order to grow, prosper and become TIMBER, which was of course the principle building material in the construction of ships during that era. What were they going to build this ship out of, adobe perhaps?

It would perhaps been a bit more plausible if the author chose to accuse Fr. Kino of comissioning a ship to be built further south along the Pacific shore where there actually exists enough tree growth to support the building and outfitting of a ship.

I've been to Caborca and I've seen the dust devils rising a couple of hundred feet above the ground. As far as I am aware, the area surrounding Caborca has been this way since at least since the very first colonists arrived and it's only been in very modern times that irrigation has allowed for the agriculturists to produce substainable crops.
Your friend;
LAMAR

The author you choose to denigrate is the eminent Jesuit Father Ernest J. Burrus SJ (I know the double references of Jesuit and SJ are overkill, but I am making a point).

WOW! I am amazed that there is something about Jesuit History that you are TOTALLY Unaware of! I once again reference Father Ernest Burrus SJ's excellent work "Kino and Manje, Explorers of Sonora and Arizona" 1971

First Quote /page# 22-23, (nothing to do with Caborca, but regarding Jesuit Shipping):

Afte conferring with Atondo, Kino retraced his steps to Guadalajara and in early June he visited Rosario near the harbor of Mazatlan. He was soon in the saddle again; this time in order to ride back to Nio for the blessing of the three new ships: the Almiranta (a frigate with the high-sounding name of San Jose Y San Francisco Javier), the Capitana (another frigate, named La Concepcion), and the Balandra (a sloop).

Let's see, maybe Lamar can tell us who may have been referenced by using the name SAN FRANCISCO JAVIER?? HMMMMMMM provacative, I must say!

Next we go to pages 67-71 (specifically regarding KINO'S BOAT at CABORCA:

pg#67

The Missionary himself was not with Manje at the time the harbor was found (Santa Sabina), as he had remained in CABORCA to work on the boat.

pg# 68

Kino had returned from the first expedition on the eve of Ash Wednesday, as we have seen, and attended to his charges at Dolores and dependent missions until Tuesday, March 16, of that same yearof 1694, when he set out a second time with Manje. Kino's main purpose was to build a boat in sections, and haul them overland by oxen to the Gulf of California in preparation for an exploratory sea voyage.

I will only include some relevant quotes, as there are over twenty pages in this book alone dealing with Kino's Boat at Caborca. In case you thought it was just some little dinghy, this last quote will give an idea of the planned size of Kino's Boat pages 184-185:

The next day, March 21, was the Fourth of Laetare Sunday in Lent, but Kino was so anxious to get started on his boat, that he selected a huge Cottonwood. Inasmuch as he wanted to obtain the largest plank possible from the tree, he had his crew dig down deep along the roots. They then tried to topple down the giant. Despite all the pulling and pushing, the tree refused to budge. Agile Manje climbed to the top branches, fastened the rope thrown to him; and, before he could descend, the impatient crew gave the rope a mighty tug. Down came the giant Cottonwood with Manje dangling helplessly in its' top branches. It landed with a mighty crash, the smaller branches flying into a thousand pieces. The crew got out of the way in time~~...............~~Manje was a scrupulous in measuring timber as he was in counting natives: "The trunk was cut thirty-eight feet long in order to secure a clean keel from stern to prow, not counting the bows and stern posts, which would be eighteen cubits". This would make the boat about sixty feet long.

So, once again, before making a statement that attempts to ridicule me, you might want to make an attempt at researching for yourself. It seems as though your knowledge of Caborca is as thin as your knowledge of Father Kino's Boat.

Your post upset me somewhat, because we usually get along very cordially (even when we completely disagree). I'm not used to you being so flippant. It seems that you are not even the same person that I usually debate with.

Best-Mike

 

[Ellie Baba]

Dear ghost dog;
Those stone maps are modern. The evidence is plainly in favor of this proclamation, and while I am NOT stating that they do not lead to the LDM, or anywhere else for that matter, there are not Representative of an old set of stone carvings. I've placed the time of the stone carvings to be somewhere around the 1930s, and carved by a person with a very poor knowledge of the Spanish language, Spanish writing style and Spanish art depictions.

Again, this is not to state that the stone maps do not represent the path to the LDM, merely that they are modern carvings and as such, your view of the maps should be based upon this knowledge. For all anyone knows, the maps could very possibly be leading the way towards an entirely different treasure cache.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Hi to my friend Lamar,

You are pretty close on the date although the stone maps will not lead you to the LDM, but other caches. Attached are two photographs; one of the Trail Map and the other of a photograph I had posted on the forum entitled, “How sure is it that the LDM is in the Superstitions”. See topic 241 posted Oct. 13, 2009. I had stated a number of times that the Stone Tablets were meant to be used in a specific location. The photograph contains two (circled) of the four symbols found on the Trail Map Stone (highlighted in black). The other circled areas indicate areas of interest as the area is covered with all kinds of symbols and strange anomalies. Some of the shadow art images are not yet in full phase. See satellite (Rose) interpretation on topic #176 Oct. 09, 2009. Notice 3 peaked symbol (M with inverted V) adjacent to a reversed 3 (three). This symbol is located next to the tip of the heart insert located on the Heart Stone.
These Stone Tablets were most likely made in the early 1900’s and are a second or third release. Any comments regarding insight or ideas are welcome.
Have a great week and I am looking forward to Rendezvous!
EB

 

[Twisted Fork]

OroBlanco,

Go and join the F.B.I., so that when you go through your training in the field and they teach you that all organised Christian faiths are on the terrorists list, maybe a little light will go on in your head. It's a fact bro. I have seen video clips from briefcase cameras of it being done in the classroom.

The Kazars anxiously await the evil one's arrival knowing that he will destroy the dome of the rock and make way for their bloody goat sacrificing alter known as the Temple. They do not accept Jesus as the slain lamb nor his body as the temple like our none liberal brothers before us the true Jesuit. They now control your money, your food, your laws, your cops and your very life. Our ancestors have fallen for the scam we have know as Judeo Christianity. Jesus was a Levite and from Galilee like the fisherman less Judas; see their way and end in him. The Good Shepard warned us all of these vile serpents in the grass.

The Jesuits did all that they could do to undermine the gay lifestyles of these mindless liberals who have existed without heritage, opening the door to their own destruction. The Pharisees were not and are now neither Hebrews nor of the 12 tribes; they are impostors living in a tradition of their forefathers who were Russian barbarians, that did and do thrive on the invasion of homelands. You would have thought that they had learned something from Nazi Germany, but obviously they have not and history will indeed repeat itself. Study the Map Study the Heart

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning my friends: Gully you posted -->

"WOW! I am amazed that there is something about Jesuit History that you are TOTALLY Unaware of"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lamar, my friend, this leads to the obvious & natural remark / question -

"perhaps this is why you have no information on the mining and plot with the Dutch either"? - - - - -or do You, but are witholding it!

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Twisted Fork]

Dear ghost dog;
Those stone maps are modern. The evidence is plainly in favor of this proclamation, and while I am NOT stating that they do not lead to the LDM, or anywhere else for that matter, there are not Representative of an old set of stone carvings. I've placed the time of the stone carvings to be somewhere around the 1930s, and carved by a person with a very poor knowledge of the Spanish language, Spanish writing style and Spanish art depictions.

Again, this is not to state that the stone maps do not represent the path to the LDM, merely that they are modern carvings and as such, your view of the maps should be based upon this knowledge. For all anyone knows, the maps could very possibly be leading the way towards an entirely different treasure cache.
Your friend;
LAMAR

Hi to my friend Lamar,

You are pretty close on the date although the stone maps will not lead you to the LDM, but other caches. Attached are two photographs; one of the Trail Map and the other of a photograph I had posted on the forum entitled, “How sure is it that the LDM is in the Superstitions”. See topic 241 posted Oct. 13, 2009. I had stated a number of times that the Stone Tablets were meant to be used in a specific location. The photograph contains two (circled) of the four symbols found on the Trail Map Stone (highlighted in black). The other circled areas indicate areas of interest as the area is covered with all kinds of symbols and strange anomalies. Some of the shadow art images are not yet in full phase. See satellite (Rose) interpretation on topic #176 Oct. 09, 2009. Notice 3 peaked symbol (M with inverted V) adjacent to a reversed 3 (three). This symbol is located next to the tip of the heart insert located on the Heart Stone.
These Stone Tablets were most likely made in the early 1900’s and are a second or third release. Any comments regarding insight or ideas are welcome.
Have a great week and I am looking forward to Rendezvous!
EB

I think you will find that these two peak carvings are two separate views of Black Mnt. as it is approached from two different directions. N.E. up river from there, one will find this area; the river turns are the key. The Hat shape peak is mirrored in placement. It is reference and not literal as there are numerous styles of hats. When you are at the correct location along the river, you will see the hat peak above from the base of Fresco. There is spill from the funnel, along one side of the river. Fresco once a flowing spring, it placed it there into the river via it's stream. Watch out for the Apache. Both the tablets and the maps focus here; you will have to see it to believe it I'm sure. No forgeries here dude; don't listen to fairies, OK?

 

[Twisted Fork]

Here is one collector to find for some juicy reading; only the cover survives in my possession.

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Twisted Fork wrote

OroBlanco,

Go and join the F.B.I., so that when you go through your training in the field and they teach you that all organised Christian faiths are on the terrorists list, maybe a little light will go on in your head. It's a fact bro. I have seen video clips from briefcase cameras of it being done in the classroom.

The Kazars anxiously await the evil one's arrival knowing that he will destroy the dome of the rock and make way for their bloody goat sacrificing alter known as the Temple. They do not accept Jesus as the slain lamb nor his body as the temple like our none liberal brothers before us the true Jesuit. They now control your money, your food, your laws, your cops and your very life. Our ancestors have fallen for the scam we have know as Judeo Christianity. Jesus was a Levite and from Galilee like the fisherman less Judas; see their way and end in him. The Good Shepard warned us all of these vile serpents in the grass.

The Jesuits did all that they could do to undermine the gay lifestyles of these mindless liberals who have existed without heritage, opening the door to their own destruction. The Pharisees were not and are now neither Hebrews nor of the 12 tribes; they are impostors living in a tradition of their forefathers who were Russian barbarians, that did and do thrive on the invasion of homelands. You would have thought that they had learned something from Nazi Germany, but obviously they have not and history will indeed repeat itself. Study the Map Study the Heart

Join the FBI? Sheesh your posts are getting even more far-out amigo. It sure looks like it is you whom have been spoon-fed a load of erroneous, misleading "material" from sources that have their own agendas, which have nothing to do with what the USA was founded upon nor Christianity. I won't trouble you any further with more questions, I think I have a good idea where you stand.

Mike, thank you for those references on Father Kino's "boat" which judging by the size, some might refer to as a "ship". I am not sure why Lamar took such a negative stance concerning Jesuit ships, his objections are the first I have ever seen against the Jesuits having hired (and even built) their own ships. Is there some shame or proscription against having hired ships <or for that matter, owning vessels outright>, in the Society of Jesus? I do not recall ever running across such rule or any kind of restriction, other than the general rule about "commerce", that is pursuit of profit but even this rule was not always strictly enforced due to the various needs of the situation and times. As Lamar has stated he is NOT a Jesuit, and in effect "guessing" as to what the Society might respond to our various subjects, we are left wondering what the Society would say?

I have a question for anyone reading our discussion, does anyone have a link to a site which shows some of the various livestock (cattle especially) brands used in the Spanish Colonial period, for the southwestern region? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Mr. Fork,

As you may know, I collect books. Your cover is very interesting, and I have never seen it before. Paul Bacon designed the cover for the first edition, first printing of "The Killer Mountains". Did someone else design the cover you have?

I was lucky enough to pick up one of those first printings. Curt inscribed it to his Mom:

Congratulations on having that unusual cover......at least unusual to me.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Ellie Baba]

Twisted Fork wrote;

I think you will find that these two peak carvings are two separate views of Black Mnt. as it is approached from two different directions. N.E. upriver from there, one will find this area; the river turns are the key. The Hat shape peak is mirrored in placement. It is reference and not literal as there are numerous styles of hats. When you are at the correct location along the river, you will see the hat peak above from the base of Fresco. There is spill from the funnel, along one side of the river. Fresco once a flowing spring, it placed it there into the river via its stream. Watch out for the Apache. Both the tablets and the maps focus here; you will have to see it to believe it I'm sure. No forgeries here dude; don't listen to fairies, OK?

The Stone Maps are applicable to a number of different locations or I should say depositories. The tablets are telling us where to focus our search which is on the north side of the RIO. EL Caballo de Santa Fe, Yo pasto al norte del rio. This statement is very specific and you must locate the Horse of the Holy Faith. I have seen these maps more than once and I would choose to put my cards on the table with the stone maps because the Holy Horse's statement is 100% accurate! I have witnessed seeing this same horse at least three times in three different locations; Holy Faith Horse #1 is located on the face of the Supers facing southeast, his eyes are focused on the cross. Holy Faith Horse #2 was found buried in a 33 foot basement sized hole that we had excavated due to certain information relating to the stone tablets. His skeleton, standing erect was facing a particular direction and his eyes were looking towards the Horse of the Holy Faith #3 on the north side of the river. We have now formed a geometric symbol (which at this time I cannot discuss). Found in the hole with the Percheron (a breed of work horse from the Perche Valley in Northern France) was a large heart fashioned from a metal band and a number of other objects identifying the Architects. We had taken the bones of this large animal to a Veterinarian to have the bones identified. It was also found that the bones contained a large amount of arsenic; guess what number represents arsenic on the periodic table? The number is 33. So what is with the threes? As some of you know the Father, Son and Holy Ghost represent the Trinity, the number three (3), the truth, 33 is defined as the absolute truth. Most of the symbols found on the stone maps can have three different meanings and only one is correct. There are three different planes of truth, physical, spiritual and the breath of God (the soul). Father, Son and Holy Ghost; the Father (God) breathes into us our soul which takes place at conception. God knew us as we were being knit together in our mother's womb. Adam the first Spirit, for the spiritual precedes the natural, caused us to be separated from God. Christ the Life Giving Spirit brings us back to God thru his sacrifice once and for all defeating death. For where O death is thy victory, where O death is thy sting? All souls are mine saith the Lord and unless ye are born again ye will be condemned. The Spirit of Christ will cleanse the soul of sin thereby we shall receive eternal life, but we must be born again. What? Shall I enter back into my mother’s womb? The Great Architect has a procedure that we must follow to find the greatest treasure of all. The Stone Maps have a procedure that we must also follow to find the treasure. There is no room for error; For you must work out your salvation with fear and trembling. I go 18 places and the trail is dangerous. I have never listened to fairies and I need to pay more attention to my God. I have not been listening to him either.
EB

 

[Oroblanco]

Ellie Baba wrote

Found in the hole with the Percheron (a breed of work horse from the Perche Valley in Northern France) was a large heart fashioned from a metal band and a number of other objects identifying the Architects. We had taken the bones of this large animal to a Veterinarian to have the bones identified. It was also found that the bones contained a large amount of arsenic; guess what number represents arsenic on the periodic table?

I don't know if you are a 'horse trader' but in the 'good old days' a rather nasty practice done by unscrupulous horse dealers was to give an old horse rather large doses of arsenic just before selling it. The arsenic had a short-term effect of acting rather like a tonic, making the horse seem to act healthy and strong, but shortening its life dramatically. Finding horse remains that turned out to have a large amount of arsenic in them would indicate to me that we have the results of an unscrupulous horse trader. This is only one of many such tricks employed in the horse trade, some of which are still done (doping horses going to auction, races etc).
Oroblanco

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I'm going to interject here that the Spanish that you say is very specific is also very mispelled.

Seems like a terrible oversight from what you seem to be attributing to a divine annotation.

B

 

[cactusjumper]

Ellie,

It would be interesting to see some pictures of the excavation and items you found. While you have described them, "A picture is worth a thousand words". Don't you agree?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie,

It would be interesting to see some pictures of the excavation and items you found. While you have described them, "A picture is worth a thousand words". Don't you agree?

Thanks in advance,

Joe

Shadow of the Sentinel, by Warren Getler & Bob Brewer
See photo on page 34. Story found in "Off to Arizona", Chapter 14, pg. 199.

See you at Rendezvous.

EB