The Peralta Stones

Dear Ellie Baba;
I know nothing of Mr. Kenworthy's personal character, therefore I cannot formulate an opinion in that regard, however I do happen to know a bit about Spanish involvement in the New World colonies and I can state without reservation that Mr. Kenworthy's *expertise* seemed to severely lacking as far as established facts and historical events were concerned, and it is in this aspect that I am speaking of.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 

Lamar,

First, Chuck Kenworthy never claimed to be any kind of a font of Jesuit Knowledge. He was a treasure hunter plain and simple. He became a millionaire in the 1970s in Southern California in Real Estate. He was working on two or three treasure projects at the time of his death, and one that he hadn't been able to spend as much time as he would have liked was a Jesuit Treasure, but he never claimed to have any intimate knowledge of Jesuit matters.

As a matter of fact, the entire subject of treasure hunting is a very sore one with the family, as most of his kids feel that Chuck abandoned them in favor of hunting lost fortunes.

Also, Chuck is the one who recovered those 1028 Silver Bars from Father Javier Saeta's Martyr Cache

Joe,

I have a friend who was very close to Chuck. About a month or so before he died, Chuck showed up at my friend's office with some large boxes of research materials (marked up topos, marked up pictures, etc). My friend was out of town on business, and by the time he returned, Chuck had passed away. He was supposed to have received after Chuck's passing all the copies of the Archive Materials that Chuck based his books on. One person stepped in at the last minute and nixed that.

I will explain my best guess as to why those documents are still kept hidden. Chuck spent a LOT of money bribing Archivists in Mexico, Rome, Seville, and anywhere else he thought might contain the knowledge he was searching for. The information he released was just a drop in the bucket of the knowledge he possessed. Now, that knowledge belongs to someone else in his family. What is being done with it, I can't say. I will say that myself, and people who were close with Chuck Kenworthy NEVER doubt for a second that those documents exist.

I also know that most of the Dutch Hunters never put much stock in any of Kenworthy's ideas about monuments, markers, and the like, but you could fill a thimble with all the gold those experts have found in all their years in the Supers. I will PM you a little something that's not really for posting.

Best-Mike
 

One of the interesting posts, from the LDM Forum, contained this excerpt:

"Chuck stated that the individual that he hired to work the Seville archives was Eugene Lyon. If that name rings a bell with anyone - it should. Mel Fisher had also retained Eugene earlier to search the Seville archives for information on the 1715 Spanish fleet that was wrecked on the Florida coastline in a hurricane. It was Eugene that found the key clues on the Senora de Atocha that led Mel to the Dry Tortugas south of Key West and his finding of the Atocha.

Chuck said that there were a large number of pages in the map making and trail marking documents that Eugene sent him. The key ones were used in his books, but there were a number of others - some were variations of the ones in the books and others were entirely different."

Dr. Lyon declined to verify any connection to Kenworthy. No conversation, just silence.

Joe Ribaudo
 

Dear gollum;
You wrote:
Lamar,

First, Chuck Kenworthy never claimed to be any kind of a font of Jesuit Knowledge. He was a treasure hunter plain and simple. He became a millionaire in the 1970s in Southern California in Real Estate. He was working on two or three treasure projects at the time of his death, and one that he hadn't been able to spend as much time as he would have liked was a Jesuit Treasure, but he never claimed to have any intimate knowledge of Jesuit matters.

As a matter of fact, the entire subject of treasure hunting is a very sore one with the family, as most of his kids feel that Chuck abandoned them in favor of hunting lost fortunes.

Also, Chuck is the one who recovered those 1028 Silver Bars from Father Javier Saeta's Martyr Cache

Joe,

I have a friend who was very close to Chuck. About a month or so before he died, Chuck showed up at my friend's office with some large boxes of research materials (marked up topos, marked up pictures, etc). My friend was out of town on business, and by the time he returned, Chuck had passed away. He was supposed to have received after Chuck's passing all the copies of the Archive Materials that Chuck based his books on. One person stepped in at the last minute and nixed that.

I will explain my best guess as to why those documents are still kept hidden. Chuck spent a LOT of money bribing Archivists in Mexico, Rome, Seville, and anywhere else he thought might contain the knowledge he was searching for. The information he released was just a drop in the bucket of the knowledge he possessed. Now, that knowledge belongs to someone else in his family. What is being done with it, I can't say. I will say that myself, and people who were close with Chuck Kenworthy NEVER doubt for a second that those documents exist.

I also know that most of the Dutch Hunters never put much stock in any of Kenworthy's ideas about monuments, markers, and the like, but you could fill a thimble with all the gold those experts have found in all their years in the Supers. I will PM you a little something that's not really for posting.

Best-Mike

I would like to ask that we stop and think about portions of your statement logically for just a moment, my friend. I was fortunate enough to have actually read a couple of chapters of one of Mr. Kenworthy's books, Unfound treasures of Mexico, I think it was. Within the few pages that I took the time to read, I found mistake after mistake, and not just mistakes, but glaringly obvious ones at that. Please allow me to provide but one small example from the book. And now an excerpt from the book "Unfound Treasures of Mexico".

Toward the end of the 1500's, New Mexico was colonized by the Spanish. It was in Santa Fe that the palace of governors was completed in 1609. This palace was to govern Northern Mexico; Which Was A Considerable Portion Of United States Today.

Adjoining the Palace of Governors, the San Miguel Cathedral was constructed and in operation in 1636.

This was the central point for the church not only in seeking converts, but to help solve the major problems developing in the palace of governors. It seems that the Christianized miners rebelled if they did not have a fray/padre with them to hear their last confession or give them the last rites at the distant mining operation (and there were many deaths). So, it worked good for both Spain and the church.



First, there is no San Miguel Cathedral in Santa Fe New Mexico, my friend, however there is a San Miguel Mission Chapel, which can in no way be misconstrued for a cathedral, nor is it on the plaza. The chapel was a part of the San Miguel Franciscan Mission, but it's not next to the Governor's Palace. Also, it was not completed in 1636, rather it was was completed in 1610 and is, as a point of fact is, reputed to be the oldest continually standing and occupied church building in the USA. I think that Mr. Kenworthy somehow confused the San Miguel Chapel with the original La Parroquia church, which was also built in 1610 and destroyed by a native American uprising in 1680. Thenceforth a new La Parroquia church was constructed and later, a cathedral was actually built all around the still standing and in use church. Once the cathedral was completed in 1714, the church was torn down from INSIDE of the cathedral and removed piece by painstaking piece through the doors of the newly completed cathedral. The name of the cathedral was called The St. Francis cathedral, after the patron saint of the Franciscans which settled Santa Fe and converted the natives. This same cathedral, which was proclaimed a Basilica in 2005 by Pope Benedict XVI, is now called the Cathedral Basilica of St. Francis of Assisi.

Next, there was at no time a Roman Catholic church built next to the Governor's Palace in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and I'll tell you why. Because the Governor's Palace is on the North side of the plaza and the Cathedral Basilica of St. Francis is on the East side, and there is a very good reason for this. It's because Roman Catholics traditionally pray and celebrate Mass facing to the East, which of course is the direction of the rising Sun. If a church is built facing the West, the altar and tabernacle will be facing East and it is the Eastern wall which the traditional celebrants face. If you visit any older town where there was an early Roman Catholic influence, such as the Southwestern US, Mexico, Central or South America you will discover that the layout of the central plaza is always the same. The church is always on the Eastern side of the plaza with it's main doors facing to the West and the altar and congregation facing the East.

Please note that with the more modern Roman Catholic churches this is no longer a requirement, rather it's more of a preferred option, for lack of a better way to put it. I however, still face the East and I only attend Mass in churches which are oriented in the correct direction, in case you were wondering about it.

Now, let's think about all of this logically. An author, who lived one state away from New Mexico could not seem to get his facts straight whereas someone living in Bolivia can. What's wrong with this picture, my friend? It should be immediately obvious that the man knew next to nothing of traditional Roman Catholics in general, yet he somehow learned all about the inner workings of the early Franciscan and Jesuit missionaries? He couldn't even provide the reader with the correct name of a church nor could he provide the correct date of construction, nor even the correct location of said cathedral. Seeing as how cathedrals are usually fairly oppulant in size and weight, they most generally tend to stay in one place for their entire lifespan, therefore I seriously doubt the cathedral moved at all since it was constructed, especially going as far as taking a stroll across the plaza to it's present location.

Also, as a point of fact, the Spanish contained in Mr. Kenworthy's book is lacking, to put it politely. He used a form of Spanglish which no respectable Spanish or Mexican scribe would have used. Of course this fact leads me to believe that *if* Mr. Kenworthy actually had access to the archives of Mexico and Seville that he would not have been able to translate them with any amount of accuracy, if at all.

I also seriously doubt that Mr. Kenworthy could have bribed his way into the Vatican archives or managed to have copies of any documents smuggled out. First, the Roman Catholic church is a very large group and as such, it has sizeable holdings, therefore bribery will not work with a cleric of the Vatican. Not even a sizeable donation would have gotten the donor into the archives nor would it have gotten copies of any documents out. Please remember that the Vatican archives are not a public library and as such they have always maintain very strict controls of all of it's documents. In fact, until very recently, only three priests would be assigned to work in the Archives at any one time and always as librarians. Besides, why try to bribe your way past the front door of the Vaatican archives when can do the same research, only about a billion times faster, while sitting in comfortable chairs, with central heat and AC in St. Louis, Mo.? The reason why Mr. Kenworthy never mentioned this fact is most likely because he was not aware of it, as most people are not. For some odd reason, people still tend to think that the Vatican archives house all the deep, dark secrets of the Universe, whereas the truth of the matter is that most of the revelant information from the Vatican Archives can be accessed by virtually anyone.

Also, and this holds true even today, the archives remain vastly uncataloged, that is to say that unless a person knows exactly the document they are searching for and what it is in reference to, they will not get to view said document, simply because the librarians do not know where the document has been filed inside of the archives as the archives have some fifty-two MILES of shelves, my friend. I find it difficult to believe that a man could navigate his way through any archive, be it Spanish, Mexican or Vatican if he were unable to accurately state the history of a particular Roman Catholic church in a country where he's resided his entire life.

The mistakes I've noted in his books are practically without end and in light of this, I've concluded that the man either did very shoddy research, if any at all, or he made up entire blocks of history as he went along.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 

Not to get off topic, but in mention of the many silver bars found; did this have anything to do with the basement full of buried silver found on the California border or Esmeralda? Is she still lost? This was a Jesuit dig as I remember and there were pictures of some of the silver bars with sharp mint marks intact.
 

Lamar,

You make many assumptions in your post. NONE of which are correct.

You assumed that I meant CK bribed Vatican Archivists. Please show me where I stated that? You can't. There are many archives in Rome other than the Vaticano Segretto, and the General Vatican Archives. There are the Jesuit Archives on Via Borgho right next to the Vatican Archives. There are also a lot of other historical archives, as well as the archives in the other cities I mentioned.

I also never said which archivists took the money, nor did I state where the 100+ pages of document copies came from.

He wasn't an archive researcher or a Spanish Translator. He was a Real Estate Millionaire with a keen interest in Treasure Hunting. He had a lot of friends in high and low places.

Say what you will about what you may think of his skills, ethics, translation abilities, or knowledge of history. In his years of treasure hunting, the man found more land treasures than anyone else I know (and I know several people who will never have to work again).

I have to admit that I haven't read his book on Mexico. That is one that I didn't get because I was never planning on going there treasure hunting.

Best-Mike
 

Mike,

I would say you are correct about Lamar making one (1) assumption. Beyond that, his historical comments seem fairly accurate. I would need to open my folder on San Miguel tonight to check the details of that portion of his post. I have a great deal of information about the history of San Miguel and it's bell.

Like many "treasure hunters", Chuck Kenworthy had a pretty good sized ego. As a millionair, it does not seem a stretch to imagine that he would create/buy ore/treasures to boost his credibility, and sell more books. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing happened.

Kenworthy made many claims which he never produced a single shred of evidence for. He said he had the evidence, but never showed it. Ore or gold/silver artifacts are not in and of themselves proof of authenticity.
Those artifacts, or ore, but must be examined by qualified professionals to reach the level of proof.

Kenworhy, like many treasure hunters, didn't let that examination take place.

Mel Fisher created many fake Atocha artifacts and sold them as the real thing. You may be aware of that story. This world if full of fakes.
____________________________________________________

[The Problem

In 1999, Element Analysis Corp was called upon by the Florida state attorney’s office in Key West, where Mel Fisher’s Treasure Sales Shop was located. Mel Fisher was accused of selling fake gold coins – coins that he claimed were from the wreck of the Atocha.

The coins, seized from his Key West shop by investigators, were flown to Lexington, Kentucky-based EAC where trace element analysis was used to determine the coins’ authenticity.

The Solution

EAC analyzed the gold and silver content of the suspect coins. Once done, the results were compared with authentic, 18th century Spanish gold coins. EAC used Proton-Induced X-ray Emission (PIXE) analysis because it’s fast and does not destroy the original sample.

EAC found that the suspect coins contained 93% gold and 4% silver. While the authentic gold coins from the shipwreck contained 90-93 percent gold with a relatively high silver content of 6-9 percent. The gold was real but the coins were not from the Atocha, or any other shipwreck. The coins, which were sold for around $6000, were worth only a fraction of the selling price – around $270 at current gold prices.

“EAC is what made our case,” ”stated Paul Meyers, an investigator for the Florida state attorney’s office. Because of the quick and accurate analysis by EAC, nearly $200,000 was recovered and repaid to those purchasing the fake coins.]
___________________________________________________

Take care,

Joe
 

Dear gollum;
Once again, I cannot attest to the personal character of the man as I've never met him nor have I had any prior dealings with him, however I can state with no small amount of certainty that his books do not convey any true sense of historical proportion to the actual events which occurred.

Mr. Kenworthy stated that he *uncovered* a document, from an unknown locale as it were, and it was this particular document which spells out the treasure signs & symbols that the King of Spain supposedly ordered to be utilized in the New World colonies. It would be practically impossible, if not completely so, to have been able to produce a document with this much of a profound impact and have it distributed to the various mine claimants across the width and breath of Spain's colonies, yet at the very same time maintaining the contents of said document in complete and total secrecy. It just cannot happen, my friend.

So, in order for this outrageous claim to be semi-plausible, Mr. Kenworthy needed accomplices to aid the King of Spain, and whom would have been better to carry out the task than those dreaded Jesuits?!?!?! According to Mr. Kenworthy, it was the Jesuits who ensured that the mines were marked according to the King's Royal Ordenance and it was they who ensured the King got his 20% cut.

It makes for a good read, if the author is talented enough to pull it off, yet it is simply a work of fiction. In truth, the Jesuits could have cared less what the King of Spain wanted, desired, needed or thought. The king did not give orders to the Jesuits, nor did the Jesuits obey orders from kings. The Jesuits had their own agenda and it was this ignorance of the secular colonists and their complaints to the crowns of Spain and Portugal that got the Jesuits expelled from the New World in the first place.

The Jesuits were basically turning their missions into autonomous governments, which was something the Kings of Spain and Portugal did not take lightly. The Jesuits of course had very good reasons for doing this, the least of which was the protection of the natives from the colonists. Once a native was on Jesuit terrain that native became an automatic subject of the Superior General of whichever mission the native was on and therefore could not be touched or harmed in any way by any secular colonist without express approval from the Superior General of the mission first. As you can imagine, this only happened in cases of the native(s) being accused of murder by the colonist(s) and in such cases the Superior General of the mission became the judge in the matter.

In the end, the Jesuits became victims of their own success as their missions and reductions were soon turning over healthy profits, much to the chagrin of the colonists whose own higher priced goods and products simply could not compete with the Jesuits in the marketplace. If you care to recall the exemptions which the kings of Spain and Portugal bestowed upon the Jesuits, they were funded with start-up capitol from the Royal treasuries and tasked with building missions and converting the natives while providing a source of labor and income to be self-substaining. The Jesuits were exempt from all royal taxes for a period of seven years, after which time it was assumed and expected that they pay their royal taxes at such a percentage that the royal treasury would eventually recooperate it's initial capitol funding and realize a profit from the reductions.

Also, the Jesuits were among the most highly educated men on the planet at the time and as such they were experts at maximizing profits with the least amount of expenditures. And so, the secular colonists simply did not have the intellectual tools at their disposal to compete with this particular Order and they got rid of them the best way that they knew how to, because if the colonists would have declared open war on the Jesuits, the situation would have been very grave indeed.

To a certain point, the Jesuits DID find treasure in New Spain, only it wasn't golden or silver colored and it did not ring when struck. Instead, when struck it went MOOOOOOOOOO and ran away! That's correct, the Jesuits discovered that animal husbandry and the sparse seasonal plains of New Spain made a fine combination of resources and so they became the world's first cattle barons. The natives were extremely well suited to the task of tending the vast herds of cattle which soon sprang up as the Jesuits bred and improved the cattle stocks in the area. The land was ideally suited for the roaming cattle herds as they competed with, and eventually replaced, the wild buffalo herds.

In fact, at the time of the Jesuit expulsion they controlled some 1,000,000 odd head of the beasts and it was such a large amount that after their explusion, the people of Mexico experienced a famine for at least two decades afterwards, as the incoming Franciscans and secular colonists simply did not have the knowledge necessary to tend and care for the vast cattle herds. And so, the Franciscans returned the land to the animals which they were familiar with, that being goats and sheep, which were plentiful, cheap and easy to care for. Also, for some odd reason, the Franciscans find a certain romance in being shepards and I personally think that they found it more in line with their Order's theology or something. Anyway, they seemed to have preferred raising goats and sheep to cattle and hogs. And this is why mutton and goat remains so popular in Mexico today my friend.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 

Dear Lamar,

I fear you have made a few statements which do not conform with historical records (that I have read).

First:

"It makes for a good read, if the author is talented enough to pull it off, yet it is simply a work of fiction. In truth, the Jesuits could have cared less what the King of Spain wanted, desired, needed or thought. The king did not give orders to the Jesuits, nor did the Jesuits obey orders from kings. The Jesuits had their own agenda and it was ignorance of the secular colonists and their complaints to the crowns of Spain and Portugal that got the Jesuits expelled from the New World int he first place."

Second:

"Also, the Jesuits were among the most highly educated men on the planet at the time and as such they were experts at maximizing profits with the least amount of expenditures."

While this was true for many of the missionaries, such as Father Kino, it was not true for all of them. Many of the Jesuits were complete failures in that regard.

The portions in Bold seems to be unsupported by contemporaneous writings from that era, including the period of the expulsion. I would be happy to supply sources this evening, if needed.

Glad to see you back in the conversations.

Take care,

Joe
 

Dear cactusjumper;
As always, I try to view the entire statement in general terms without focusing on any one particular portion mor event, as this would be beyond the scope of this discussion, therefore what I state tends to hold true for all the missions and reductions in the New World colonies. Of course, every situation was different and yes, there were a number of failures, mostly at the very early stages. The reason for these failures varies wildly, with the bulk of the fialures being from either bad management practices or lack of ebvironmental support. As the Jesuit mission in the New World colonies grew, so did their success rate. This was because the various missions provided a sort of mutual support structure which helped to ensure the success of all the missions and from this mutual support and protection grew the autonomous government thing.

As clerics within the Roman Catholic Church, neither the Jesuits nor any other religious Order can be directed or employed by any secular party that could be construed as a conflict of interest to the Order of the Church. Of course, this wasn't always followed however for the most part it was. The Franciscans and Dominicans seemed to be better at playing the political game than did the Jesuits, for they rarely interferred with the colonial's practices, nor did the colonials bother them.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 

Hello Lamar,

I'm also at a loss with some of the things in your last post, especially the part where you say they were protected from the colonists by the Jesuits !!!

i believe after the Indian uprising in Alta Primiera (sp?) and the destruction of the various missions including the original Tumacacori mission the Jesuit priests complained to the Spanish governor of the province that there were not enough Spanish troops in the area to control the natives and stop it from happening,

whereupon the governor sent a very irate reply saying if the Jesuit missionaries had not treated the Indians so harshly they would not have revolted in the first place !!!,

furness
 

Furness,

You have to examine the relationship between the Governor and the Jesuits. The Jesuits were charged with taking care of the natives, while the miners wanted the Indians for slave labor. This caused a bit of conflict and the authorities were constantly in the middle.

The priests treated the natives like children, and in those days no one spared the rod and spoiled the child.
Death was always at their doorstep, and only a firm hand would keep order. If not for the Jesuits, many of the tribes would not have survived the Spanish takeover.

Many of the tribes begged for the Jesuits to come to their lands. When they came, the Indians had to give up everything. When they rebelled, they killed everything. Freedom is not surrendered without bloodshed.

Take care,

Joe
 

Dear furness;
If you were to delve a bit into the history of the Jesuits in the New World colonies you'll discover that the protection of the natives by the Jesuit missionaries was a very strong point of contention between the Jesuits and both the Spanish and Portuguese colonists. The hostilities had reached a point where the Jesuits were no longer condemning the natives for arming themselves and forming ad hoc militias to protect the reductions. While the Jesuit missionaries officially condemned this action on the part of the natives, in reality they did little to halt it. This feature was not nearly as predominate in the northern colonial regions as it was in the more southerly ones, such as throughtout South America.

And once again the air needs to be cleared as to the supposed Jesuit cruelities inflicted upon the natives. Fr. Kino was a staunchy supporter of native American rights and he continually fought the secular colonists tooth and nail to better the conditions of the natives under his charge. It's a well documented fact that this man, along with his missionaries, fought quite hard for the Sonoran indians, often in opposition to his co-missionary contemporaries, such as the Franciscans and Dominicans, who preferred to follow the laws in New Spain as were imposed by the Royal court of Spain instead of the laws of human decency. Fr. Kino aided the natives in a great many ways, and from 20 head of imported cattle, the missions' herd grew to over 70,000 head, making Fr. Kino the world's first cattle baron.

The main cause for the 1751 Pima uprising was a navitistic movement which had been formenting in the natives since the day the Spanish first set foot in the New Spain colonies. The natives wished to eject the Spanish from the territory and return to the pre-Columbian days, which of course was not going to happen, although the Pimas had no way of knowing this.

And so, looking for someone to blame, the governor did accuse the Jesuit missionaries of cruelity towards the natives, whereby Fr. Guebavi was sent to Mexico City, placed on trial and accquitted of all charges. Naturally, the governor had told a fairly large fib about the supposed Jesuit cruelities and his reason for doing so was mostly to downplay his own ineptitude in regards to the New Spain colonies.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 

Dear furness;
For the most part, the Jesuits were much more liberal and gentle in their punishments than were their contemporaries. Whereas a Jesuit Superior General might recommend 5 lashes for an offense, a Franciscan might recommend upwards to 10 for the same offense and a Dominican upwards to 20. We must also bear in mind that when the native was liable for punishment so too was the Jesuit missionary in charge of said native. In other words, the missionary shared in the punishment, which was generally more severe to the missionary than to the native. The Jesuits firmly believed that if a person failed as a student then the bulk of said punishment should be meted out to the teacher, for it's the instructor's responsibility to properly teach and train those under his charge.
Your friend;
LAMAR
 

Joe Lamar

Thank you for your clarification on that, it is closer to what i had read ( admittedly not a great deal ) about the missions and the Jesuit fathers relationship with the Indians,

it was just that over a period of time Lamar has tended to paint the order as a whiter shade of pale,

regards to you both,

furness
 

Joe,

You say that Kenworthy never provided any proof of his finds. That is not true according to the PM I sent you. Also, there are extant pictures of some of the Silver Bars from Father Saeta's Martyr Cache. There is no doubt that he removed a huge number of silver bars from their resting place in Southern Arizona (1028 to be exact)(see below).

You have to remember one thing that I stated previously about CK; HE WAS A TREASURE HUNTER. He was in it for the money. He was also a very smart guy. If he would have publicized his finds, there WOULD have been both legal and tax liabilities to deal with. As a man who already had money, he knew how best to guard it.

Joe, I personally know more than a couple of people who will never have to work again because they either stumbled across or spent years searching for and found some pretty remarkable things. Not one of them has publicized their finds (except one who found the cache of gold bars South of Tucson. see below). The only testing they had done was to prove to potential buyers the authenticity of their finds.

You stated:
As a millionair, it does not seem a stretch to imagine that he would create/buy ore/treasures to boost his credibility, and sell more books. It wouldn't be the first time such a thing happened.
Click to expand...

I usually give you MUCH more credit than to make such a statement. YOU are familiar with CK's books, and I would like for you to quote me one passage where he touts any of his ore or silver bar finds? ? ? I will save you the time. HE DOESN'T! He makes allusions to finding death traps, and other interesting things, but he never says that he found anything of value. I will tell you that only people close to him knew anything specific about what he did or did not find.

Lamar,

Mr. Kenworthy stated that he *uncovered* a document, from an unknown locale as it were, and it was this particular document which spells out the treasure signs & symbols that the King of Spain supposedly ordered to be utilized in the New World colonies. It would be practically impossible, if not completely so, to have been able to produce a document with this much of a profound impact and have it distributed to the various mine claimants across the width and breath of Spain's colonies, yet at the very same time maintaining the contents of said document in complete and total secrecy. It just cannot happen, my friend.
Click to expand...

That is not what CK said. He said that "Beginning in early 1983, we began receiving HUNDREDS of drawings from archives that depicted the trail markers and monuments that Spain required to be built/constructed both into and out of mountain/hill ranges thyat contained a major mine or treasure."

The part of the story that he didn't include in his book, was the part about starting in the late 1970s, sending out feelers to archivists all over the world showing an interest in purchasing copies of documents that had to do with his interests. There was not some single mysterious document, or some conspiracy. As you should well know, any researcher must request specific documents. Nobody (except the archivists themselves), is allowed to just sit and leaf through a stack period documents. That is where CK's money came in. He bypassed the researchers, who had very limited exposure to the broad expanse of documents that inhabit every old archive, and went straight to the archivists. His sources are to this day are a fairly well kept secret. There are a couple of people who know some names.

The one thing I can't argue intelligently about is his book on Mexico. I don't have it and have not read it.

Best-Mike
 

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So much gold and nothing to spend it on but smelly cattle. They must have been brutal and mad as hatters.
 

Lamar,

The thing that you keep skipping over, and have never given a good answer to is:

WHY WERE THE JESUITS THE MAIN TARGETS OF EVERY INDIAN UPRISING FROM 1640S UNTIL THE 1751 PIMA UPRISING?

They were the targets in Sonora. They were the targets in Pimeria Alta. They were the targets in Baja (read Father Sigismundo Taraval SJ's Diary) from 1737 until 1740. Now, you could have stated that the Jesuits were European, just like their civilian oppressors, and were a much easier target than well armed Spanish Soldiers. That doesn't make any sense though, as the Indios would have known that the Jesuits were the only thing standing between them and their potential enslavers. They were uneducated, but not THAT stupid.

There is something else that written history does not talk about. Something that would cause the natives of MANY different tribes in distant locations to single out the Jesuits, their Missions, and the Indios who chose to serve them. I have my suspicions and theories, but they are just that.

Also, if you want to keep ignoring the words of the Jesuit Fathers themselves, I will keep posting them:

Father Joseph Och SJ:

The cathedral church possesses an exceedingly rich treasure in its gold and silver church appointments. In Spain and the Indies the prebendaries and other canons do not have their choir at the high altar. Rather, not far from the church entrance is a large, high partition in front of their seats, and from the choir to the high altar for their sole use runs an aisle enclosed on both sides by railings. These railings run through the entire cathedral church and are of the finest cast silver, each amounting to at least eight hundred weight. The colossally large, silver hanging lamp inspires awe in all visitors. It is more than eight feet across and is very thick and massively decorated. The chains with finger-thick silver links are so heavy that when a ladder is leaned against them they do not move. A man can quite comfortably walk around the edge of the lamp. The decoration is rather ponderous, yet its manufacture by a goldsmith [sic] is supposed to have cost two thousand pesos. I omit mention of the many thick, large silver candlesticks, monstrances, and ciboria of finest gold. Suchlike are found in proportion and abundance in all churches, even those in the smallest villages for the glorious Divine service............"

Father Joseph Och SJ "Missionary in Sonora; the travel reports of Joseph Och, S.J., 1755-1767
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Father Juan (Johan) Nentvig SJ (In his published diaries called "Rudo Ensayo"):

Although in these miserable times opposing opinions have arisen among critics, some praising and others condemning the care and expense of adorning and maintaining the temples with all possible dignity and decency for the reverence due to the Supreme Maker of all creation, I will not enter into a dispute over the subject, but I believe in what Our Mother, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, has always praised, approved, practised, and in a certain fashion glorified in the lives of its Saints. One learns from the lessons of St Ignatius of Loyola, father and founder of the Society of Jesus, when he says in praise of that Holy Patriarch, “Templorum nitor, catechismi traditio, concionum ac Sacramentorum frequentia ab ipso incrementum accepere.”I shall say that my heart rejoices with delight, and I feel more inclined to worship and praise Our Lord when I enter any well adorned church. I must let the admiration argument prevail, a maiori ad minorem [from the highest to the lowest], for if we who are more rational than the Indians find incentive and devotion in temples that outshine others by their glowing adornments and will choose those in preference to the slovenly ones for Mass, Sermon, Confession, and Communion, how much more must the Indians be in need of such stimuli when nothing of what they hear takes hold upon them unless it enters through their eyes with some sort of demonstration of the Supreme Creator about whom the preacher is speaking? So, when they see that the house of God is well ordered, clean, and beautifully adorned, they perceive at once the magnificence of its Owner and Ruler. I praise the missionaries of Sonora for imitating their great Father St. Ignatius.
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Best-Mike
 

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