The Peralta Stones

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

G'morning Cactus. You posted -->It's possible that one of us needs to reread the history of Tayopa
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To a limited extent I agree
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You also posted -->Could it be that you are confusing when it was discovered with when it was abandoned?

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Nah, it was lost about 1630. 1630 -> 2010 = 380 years approx. They are still interested in it .
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You posted --> Being a "brilliant genius" requires that you be magnificent.......not magnificient. My apologies if you have a bit of a speech impediment/lisp.

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No problem, my steak providing friend, What you seem to have forgotten is that 'I' hold the undisputed title of King of the 'typoers'. <- spelling is close enough, since it is my word anyways. Don't down play my hard won title !

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Ok I'll start using the spell checker.

 

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[Blindbowman]

G'morning Cactus. You posted -->It's possible that one of us needs to reread the history of Tayopa
***************
To a limited extent I agree
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You also posted -->Could it be that you are confusing when it was discovered with when it was abandoned?

**************
Nah, it was lost about 1630. 1630 -> 2010 = 380 years approx. They are still interested in it .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You posted --> Being a "brilliant genius" requires that you be magnificent.......not magnificient. My apologies if you have a bit of a speech impediment/lisp.

**************

No problem, my steak providing friend, What you seem to have forgotten is that 'I' hold the undisputed title of King of the 'typoers'. <- spelling is close enough, since it is my word anyways. Don't down play my hard won title !

Don Jose de La Mancha

p.s. Ok I'll start using the spell checker.

sorry you only get half of what you wish for in this life time .. old friend
, my share had to come from some where .. dont worry .. there is more then enough to go around ... do you have 240 pack mules i could use for a few months ...

 

[Blindbowman]

you should also remember the pope urban 8th died two years before the tayopa letters were made .. right around the time the stones were created with the help of DON Diego

what it is the pope was useing don deigo and the jesuits to steal from the the king of Spain ..

ya, i think there is a real good and logical reason the stones and letters are coded ..if the stones were lost i think i would have look the other way the same way they did ..

deigo almost got him self hanged . and the jesuits got masscred .. and the pope died before anyone found out what the real truth was and what was going on in the pope"s bed chambers ...lol

i dont think the treasure ever left tayopa ..

i think the truth died with the pope or they believed it did .. and here comes that crazy brillant blindbowman to bring up all these old wonds....lol..

what is it they say , the truth can come back and bit you ....

ha vatican i think if i had any Spainish treasure i wouyld be hidding it right about now and any records left behind ...

you cant hide from the truth ,,,.... but my skills can be rented for the right price .. lets see you aford a man that dose not value money ...LOL... ,,.....lol

 

[Blindbowman]

sorry joe the dagger points east .. '


you smart but you need some nav skills ....lol but if you can cook a good steak we maybe able to get around that ...lol

 

[Blindbowman]

who wants to play this hand .. i am ALL IN ! ... ?

 

[Blindbowman]

got to love the coffie ..

 

[BILL96]

BB,
Must be Really good coffee, you are on a roll today. You have certainly explained a lot, great stuff but i have just a few questions. Maybe I missed this somewhere but where did these "letters" come from? please expand on them and is there is significance to where the stones were found or not? and you are still convinced that "Tayopa" is in the Supers? MA/PA etc.?
Thanks for an interesting post
Bill

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB: You posted -->you never know if you can aford a friend or not ... lol
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Ya cottin pickin nut, I always have been your friend, even IF you can't decypher the distances to the different workings / mines at Tayopa. heheheh

Gold bars ok , but Just keep yer clammy hooks off of MY Coffee and lovely mule !!.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

I realize there are many conflicting stories About Tayopa, but I thought it was pretty well accepted that the mines were found around 1603. The village of Guadalupe de Tayopa was established around 1632 with the express purpose of supporting those 17 mines.

Guadalupe de Tayopa was first abandoned during the Apache uprising of 1646, but that was only temporary. Church baptismal records show that It was still in existence into the mid-1700's. One might think that the village was still occupied at that time.

Church records have been discovered that show baptismal records and marriages performed at the church in Tayopa up to 1700 and some records seem to indicate that the village was occupied as late as the mid-1700's.

That being the case, and since the Jesuits were not expelled until 1767, it would be interesting to see you explain how they lost their own mine......while still being at the location.

If possible, I would also like to know what your source is for the mine being lost around 1630, when all other sources have that being the time when Tayopa was first discovered.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

BB: You posted -->you never know if you can aford a friend or not ... lol
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Ya cottin pickin nut, I always have been your friend, even IF you can't decypher the distances to the different workings / mines at Tayopa. heheheh

Gold bars ok , but Just keep yer clammy hooks off of MY Coffee and lovely mule !!.

Don Jose de La Mancha

who said i could'nt ,mule lover ...lol

she going and blind dates ,... wink

 

[Blindbowman]

BB,
Must be Really good coffee, you are on a roll today. You have certainly explained a lot, great stuff but i have just a few questions. Maybe I missed this somewhere but where did these "letters" come from? please expand on them and is there is significance to where the stones were found or not? and you are still convinced that "Tayopa" is in the Supers? MA/PA etc.?
Thanks for an interesting post
Bill

ok .. the first letter was found by henry O flipper the other was found at Guadalupe de Santa Ana in Sonora

yes there is a reason why the stones were found where they were , i think they were pplaced there to protect them and to keep the treasure and mines hiden , the map to the stones is on the heart insert ,, and thus the heart insert could be kept in ones pocket and the stones hidden safe some distence away.. then if any thing happend the heart insert was much easyer to hide and conceal

youare misteak . i dont beleive Tayopa is in the supers i know it is ..but its not just one set of mines ..half the mines were some distence south in mexico and the others were in the supers ..

the confussion was a way to mis led and mis direct ,,
yet as i see it no matter how you spell tayopa or how many names these sites have . i have to agree there are more then one of these sites i can say two that i know of .. real de's and my own .. and we got to step back and take a good look at what we have to go on .. church records that could have been made by the jesuits to misled and misdirect ,,. these mining camps could have been a hole in the ground for all we know .. yet the villages and the chuurches came and went with little direct link to the mines them selfs ..

ask real de how much of a church & town is left at his site...?

 

[Blindbowman]

must have been some good coffie .. think i will have another cup ...

 

[gollum]

Thanks Loke,

I have just presented a couple of possibilities. Neither of those account for everything we know. They could be correct, partially correct, or completely wrong. That may also explain why Joe R followed the trail and found empty mines and voids that matched markers on the Stone Maps. They may have been used long ago to recover the hidden wealth then dumped together when they were no longer of any use.

It does not totally account for things like Robert Crandall. Newspaperman and good friend of Ed Piper who found a man dying of exposure in the Supers (he was with Ed P at the time). The man told them that he was hiking and fell through a hole into a fairly shallow cave in which he told them that he saw a life sized statue of a Priest made of gold. They managed to get him to a doctor (I forget where at the moment) where the man died of exposure and his injuries. Neither of them managed to find the cave the dying man described.

Maybe the Jesuits may not have recovered everything. Quien Sabe?

Like I said, I am just presenting some possibilities. I don't hang my hat on any of them just yet. There has not been a preponderance of evidence that proves ANYTHING I have theorized yet.

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good evening Joe: You posted -->I realize there are many conflicting stories About Tayopa, but I thought it was pretty well accepted that the mines were found around 1603. The village of Guadalupe de Tayopa was established around 1632 with the express purpose of supporting those 17 mines.
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May I point out that the 18 mines (fox / squirrel holes) were within a radius of 2000 meters of the capilla of Tayopa, It never was a cathedral.
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You posted -->Guadalupe de Tayopa was first abandoned during the Apache uprising of 1646, but that was only temporary. Church baptismal records show that It was still in existence into the mid-1700's. One might think that the village was still occupied at that time.
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First I doubt that it was the Apache uprising, they never were under Jesuit control, but were raiders and lived far to the north. The Pimas etc were the ones that rose up in rebellion against the Jesuits--Why? Baptismal records are not necessarily found in the area of their beginning. Look no further than Salt Lake city.

They did indeed return to the area, but never found the original tayopa. They worked the surrounding area for some 50 miles in radius until they were expelled.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI Joe: you posted--> I would also like to know what your source is for the mine being lost around 1630, when all other sources have that being the time when Tayopa was first discovered.
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Hmm, may I respectfully ask you for 'your' sources?

As for Tayopa, there are some 880 posts on it here in TN, and some 70,000 readers. some where in there you will find the answers to the questions that you are asking.

However the date of Tayopa's beginning, as well as it's end, is shrouded in mystery, Suffice to say the Jesuits themselves, are 'still' vitally interested in it.

They did store the accumulated metal from the surrounding mines inside my Land holdings of Tayopa when they knew they were to be expelled. They did not have enough time to ship it to Rome. There are still many shipments still stored in the underground chambers of the Capillas on the clandestine route to just below Matamorros for trans shipment to Rome..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Loke]

They did store the accumulated metal from the surrounding mines inside my Land holdings of Tayopa when they knew they were to be expelled. They did not have enough time to ship it to Rome. There are still many shipments still stored in the underground chambers of the Capillas on the clandestine route to just below Matamorros for trans shipment to Rome..

Hmmm - care to throw me some few gold-bars? .... (just kidding!)
May I ask how long since you first applied for a permit? How long have you fought with the authorities?

Per

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Morning Loke: that is a delicate question since we are working with various depts, most of whom are competitors with each other. for example -->

!. It comes under the antiquties act

2. It falls under national treasure sites.

3. It also is under the national historical sites

4. It may well fall under the new UN heritage sites clasification also.

5 Of sourse it is also under the mining people.

6. It is under the archaeolgical groups jurisdiction.

7. Last, but not the least, it falls directly under the ejido act.


Patience my friend.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Loke, fighting is a losing proposition, sly, sneaky, subversive actions pay off 'almost' as well as $$$$$$$$$$$$.

Don Jose de La Mancha (the one that came in out of the cold)

 

[Loke]

@Real de Tayopa
*chuckles* Hey - I did _not_ ask how many decades - just how many years ....

The thing about "sneaky, subversive action" is that - yes, it will get you _somewhere_ a lot faster, though that particular _somewhere_ may not be where you want to be ... just sayin'

Have a good one!

Per

 

[somehiker]

A while back,the apparent notch in the left rear hoof of the horse of the Horse Map was noted.
A couple of weeks ago,I went out and took this photo of that part of the horse.
Of course,it may be just another co-incidence,but encouraging none the less.
I also searched for more flat stones with holes and V-s amongst the brush and rock slides,unsuccessfully however.
I will probably try again at a later date.

Regards:SH