The Peralta Stones

[Blindbowman]

BB, the Astrolabe was used to find the probable latitude, nothing more. They would sail North or South to the approx Latitude, then sail east or West to the desired landfall. Not very accurate, but it fullfilled the requirements of the day.

Prob on par with your work, why US ships ended up on rocks or shoals. snicker.


Don Jose de La Mancha

number one rule in navigation .."you'll never guess"!

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI, more like - geeze, "who forgot to wind the chronometer last night"?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

HI, more like - geeze, "who forgot to wind the chronometer last night"?

Don Jose de La Mancha

there is only 3 on each ships .. its the 128 that really suck ..

 

[shadow hunter]

the answer to your question is no .. in this case the dividers are so sharp the avg eye sight could not defind the difference but the trained skills of the navigator would know the tool was becoming dull and sharppen it way before the avg person would see it taking place ..

for the most part there would be very little if any seeable sign of the tools dulling .. but .. this said .. look who noticed it .. another navigator ...i stated the stones were not finished .. and if you look close some lines are nothing more then scratches why most are in full detail .. note .. the lesser are not as deep and are not as smooth on the edges .. why because it would take many traces of the same line to ware them down and those that are deeper are for most part wider as well and the same condition is not only in the lines of the drawing but also the holes them self's ..

we could test this by a machinist's dial indicator by measuring the depth of the holes vs the wide .. it will confirming one tool made all the holes and then we can use that data and compair the variation of the hole to the variation of the lines ,, they should share a common variation between them if i am correct .. being both a machinist and a navigator i believe i am correct

plus i am saying only what i need to at this point .. i know a lot more about this person and the stones then i am willing to share at this point in time ..
[/quote]


does anyone else have any opinions on this? i would like to hear if there is another side to this......

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI my friend Shadow--- while it still lasts, I plead -> "the 5th". but, un officially, I tend to disagree with mi buddy BB, there were far more efficient tools for carving up the infamous stones, even a sheath knife would be preferable, frankly dividers would be the last tool used. Besides, can anyone give me a semi valid reason for perfection, which it certainly isn't.?

Don Jose de La Mancha sniff, there goes my chance to ever find out what the numbers are.

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

"Besides, can anyone give me a semi valid reason for perfection, which it certainly isn't.?"

It is very close, my friend, very close.

If your reasoning is that they have not led anyone to a treasure or mine, you are reasoning on a false premise. Not all that unusual for folks who have never been in the Superstitions.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Furness]

Hi All, just my twopence worth,

the vikings used whats known as a lodestone at least 8 or 9 hundred years before the time mentioned, this was a sliver of stone that had a high iron content and natural magnetism, it was placed on a chip of wood and floated in a bucket of water suspended by a length of rope to allow for the boats rolling, and used to find north,

the link provided by BB is just one persons reasons why he believes celestial navigation was not used by Columbus, not that it was not known or used by others,

long before the astrolabe other methods were used by sailors, including an object that cast a shadow, rather like a sundial, the rolling of the ship moved the shadow backwards and forwards and a point midway between the extremes of the shadow would give the position on the instrument, not totally accurate but near enough as most journeys then were not across oceans,
the sighting taken when the sun was highest in the sky, the moon and the polar star were also used similarly, diffrent gadgets over many years before the astrolabe, and eventually they made tables of where the sun or moon would be at a particular time of day, and for diffrent times of the year,
but only accurate at the point where the tables were first made the further they traveled the less accurate their position,

i can't see any reason that the compass would have been used to make the stones and used as a carving tool, as Jose mentioned small piece of steel or iron and a wooden mallet would do the work a hundred times faster than rubbing, i doubt if rubbing would have done it at all it would have taken much to long, i have a Arkansas white stone, ( Indian head ) which is quite soft and i had used it for over twenty years using it to put the edge on wood chisels and plane blades after using the Carborundum stone, and I've gone through a few chisels in that time but the stone is still in reasonable condition, stone is carved by shock when struck by a hard object not rubbing, chips and grains flake off the stone, rubbing is used to polish or smooth the surface in the carvings once the material has been removed,

i can see it being used to take measurements from a drawing and transferred to the stones, as that is quicker than measuring everything with a ruler, stone masons use a compass quite often for that reason, taking the distance between points on the drg for accuracy between the drg and stone,and to get the positions on the stone the same as the drg, and to space out the letters evenly, and adding a small amount where the I or number 1 is used other wise the letters are to close together at that point,

John

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

***** John.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cholla lover Joe, How many times have I bored silly the semi-captive readers in here with my repeated remarks that the map to Tayopa in F. Dobie's book, 'Apache Gold & Yaqui Silver' was almost 99% correct. The problem always has been the readers attempt to fit the map into a preconceived pattern or location.

Since I have never set foot on, or flown over that section of the Superstitions, and only know what I have seen posted in here, I certainly am not qualified to judge whether you are a nut like me or are like Roy.

Incidentally don't forget my rain check on the stew and coffee. hmm, that is on a 'new' batch of stew - of course.

That perpetually hungry sheep lover from Wyominnnnn, and his two degenerate, bottomless wolves, ate poor Beth out of house and home, despite her cooking 24 hrs daily.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[shadow hunter]

The problem always has been the readers attempt to fit the map into a preconceived pattern or location.

Don Jose de La Mancha
[/quote]

I can not agree more, those maps (if real) are going to be spot on, but the truth is yu can fit them just about anywhere. I asked the question to someone else earlier about it being possible that these maps are not even in the superstitions, and the final conclusion was yes, it is possible, but alot of clues seem to indicate that is where the maps are for. I personally do not believe they are for the superstitions, i also do understand there is a difference witht the mountain range, and the "wilderness" but i do not believe it to be in the area most people look at. I guess to me i feel like there are so many focused on these areas, that why should i waste my time looking where others already have. I have made a few little discoveries, but i am sure like most of you, are not willing to show my cards.
As far as the stones are concerned, I have to side with john, that thoery, logically makes the most since to me. chiseling and then smoothing seems more sensable.
I know that i open my mouth about things that i have not done a lot a research on concerning this subject, like i have posted before, i am only a month into this. i guess the only 2 things i can really bring to the table for this forum is 1) having a theory placing the maps at another location. 2) fresh set of eyes that have not been bombarted by theories and lengends. To me, it is like the principal of Occam's razor, "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one." Looking over this forum it just seems like there are so many theories, but no real conclusion or agreement on symbols or landmarks. SO the best way to approach it, in my opinion, is by keeping it at its simplist form. you guys are a lot of fun to bounce ideas off of, thanks for the responses. i hope al of you are careful out there, the desert is unforgiving.

 

[Blindbowman]

look for used LDM gear on ebay ...lol

 

[Quinan Bear]

Hi all, I am in Edmonton Alberta now and making plans to go to the superstitions soon, I see that none of you have bothered to look where i pointed out to you befor, so i will have to do it myself. I have gathered a group of people here and we are currently collecting our gear for the journey. I gave you all a chance to go and you thought i was crazy to think that i knew something you didn't, so i am going there myself. Hope that once I'm there i can get the media to follow the story and the journey. Happy hunting and see you all soon.

 

[Javaone]

Hi all, I am in Edmonton Alberta now and making plans to go to the superstitions soon, I see that none of you have bothered to look where i pointed out to you befor, so i will have to do it myself. I have gathered a group of people here and we are currently collecting our gear for the journey. I gave you all a chance to go and you thought i was crazy to think that i knew something you didn't, so i am going there myself. Hope that once I'm there i can get the media to follow the story and the journey. Happy hunting and see you all soon.

Good Luck and PLEASE think safty first... The Supes can get you all upside-down in an instant. Looking forward to your story.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good luck my north of 54-40 friend.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Quinan Bear]

Thanks. I hope you all have a great time this week-end. take care and be safe.

 

[shadow hunter]

Cat jockey,

Now that your warmed up, why don't you tell us how you really feel? Don't be shy now. Just kidding. You do bring up some good points. I have nothing to add, just waiting to hear what others have to say..


Shadow hunter

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning Cat : One thing that I might add, is that Cats can get pretty durn big, especially if they are Jaguars. They do slip over the border from Mexico along with the rest of the illegals.

In the jungles of Quintana Roo and Belize, I have seen them go to 350 - 450 #. At a ranch, one entered a corrall, killed an 800 # cow, climbed a 7 ft fence, then jumped off with the cow slung over it's back, yet no impressions of the cow were found in the soft wet ground ?? One tough, mean kitty.

How's the fishing up there in the high country this year?


Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

CatW,

I am not guilty in the lest of the same thing you did. You made a judgement of them based on nothing but your understanding of the story. I made absolutely ZERO judgements regarding Tumlinson. I said that I was just willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because in the 46 years since the existence of the Stone Maps has been public knowledge, not one person has said Travis Tumlinson was less than honest, and ZERO proof has been shown to that effect.

I have said this many times. I look at people's actions, not what they say. I have also said that I usually go by this: "Based on the best information we have, what is the MOST LIKELY?" Lets examine this through that spectrum; "BASED ON THE BEST INFORMATION WE HAVE, WHAT IS THE MOST LIKELY?"

Based on your THEORY which is drawn from nothing but your imagination Tumlinson was not honest.

OR

Based on several witnesses testimonies that personally knew the Tumlinsons, they were telling the truth.

I think I'll have to pass on your theory.

And the only defense of the discovery story is because you corresponded with two people that knew them. Good enough for you. Fine. Not anywhere close to good enough for me. So be it, eh?

You couldn't be farther fromthe truth. But then again, maybe my sense of smell is a bit more developed than yours. To argue the point I just quoted only shows an amazing lack of knowledge of the subject. Once again, I think Dr Freud says that it shows more about you than the subject you speak of.

All in all, the best thing I can recommend for you to do is to learn more about the subject of the Stone Maps. Read about the people that possessed them. Don't read the popular tripe. I have yet to read a single story that had all the facts straight. It's taken me several years of personal interviews, correspondence, phone calls, museum visits, FOIA Requests, newspaper archives, SEC and Court Records to arrive at my personal opinion.

Maybe you should read my posts a little closer. I said "we" (as in the public record) have interviews of several people that knew the Tumlinsons. Later, I stated that "I" have personally corresponded with two people that knew the Tumlinsons quite well. Only a basic understanding of English is necessary to tell the difference.


Best-Mike

 

[gollum]

Good morning Cat : One thing that I might add, is that Cats can get pretty durn big, especially if they are Jaguars. They do slip over the border from Mexico along with the rest of the illegals.

In the jungles of Quintana Roo and Belize, I have seen them go to 350 - 450 #. At a ranch, one entered a corrall, killed an 800 # cow, climbed a 7 ft fence, then jumped off with the cow slung over it's back, yet no impressions of the cow were found in the soft wet ground ?? One tough, mean kitty.

How's the fishing up there in the high country this year?


Don Jose de La Mancha

Don Guacamole,

Are you sure you hadn't been drinking too much pulke (sic)?

Best-Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Nah gully, but perhaps 'you' do need some. You seem to forget that I am of an impeccably honest character. Check with my lovely mule.

Keep it up and I will retell the story of the time that I peeded on a skulking jaguar one night. We won't go into who had the most clean up to do after.

If that doesn't bore you enough, I will then tell you of my nude swim in the Rio Fuerte with an 80 ft aquatic serpent, however, unlike you, I felt the need to swim in my skivies after, no more trolling for me. However, blushing, you would have been safe.. snicker

Seriously, my bestest buddy, are you taking good care of my Land Rover?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[gollum]

Okay Don Guacamole de los Munchies,

The reason I prefer to swim skivvieless is because in case I get caught up in a swift current, I have a natural anchor to keep me from getting swept away!

Best-Mike