The Peralta Stones

[Blindbowman]

Beth, I admire you and Roy trying to educate BB, but after all this time and reading all his posts do you honestly think you'll ever get REAL logic through to him?

Somehow in BB's head he's convinced that by putting together a theory of how to read the stones (without showing ANY LEGITIMATE PROOF) to the "powers that be," he can show them that the stones were made hundreds of years ago by whoever for the pope/Roman Catholic Church. He constantly touts his amazing ability to use logic to prove everything and yet 99.9999% of the rest of us know without a doubt that many of his ideas are completely 180 degrees from logic and are truly illogical.

Here's the ONLY way BB could ever hope to convince the NFS or any other organization of the proof that the Stone Maps lead to something of importance. START by showing them clear and concise photos and videos of EXACTLY what the Stone Maps lead to and get their attention, then work your way backwards showing how the maps were interpretted in order to reach that spot, then finally explain the theory as to who and why those Stone Maps were made. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you're well aware, he will consistently attempt to convince them by working things exactly backwards and will lose them in the first minute.

THAT is how logic is supposed to work, however because his ultimate goal involves being the person who receives the glory for locating whatever he believes he's located, and/or legally claiming the "prize" so he can pass the legacy and financially help his family (which I believe is another thing he's mentioned as a goal), he'll never reveal anything regarding the "prize" until the NFS or other organization grants him a permit or claim.

It's a double edged sword for him - he won't get the permit or legal rights without showing his complete hand, but he won't show his complete hand to the authorities until he gets the permit or legal rights.

This will never end - save yourself a headache by just putting him on ignore like most of the rest of us have done and stay sane .

Hope to see you guys in a few weeks if you're able to get a way for a couple days.

Paul

cup you were DA when i met you and you still are .. if you dint know me personal your just being ignorant

 

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[cactusjumper]

Paul,

"I find it extremely strange and illogical to have BB constantly berate "treasure hunters" for their greed, when it's obvious he has that same greed. If he had no greed whatsoever (either monetarily or narcisistic), it would be SO SIMPLE for him to prove hsi find to the world. Simply take a wide assortment of people as a group out to his location with video cameras and reporters and prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. He'd likely lose any possible financial reward, and may lose any "glory" reward as far as being the one who finally solved it, but he'd have the satisfaction of knowing he did it - the reason he doesn't do that is simply greed - just like any of us, despite his claims that he has NO greed at all and is purely altruistic."

Considering what we know about bb, monetary greed is just out of the equation. He posts here out of boredom plain and simple. He has proven over and over again that his knowledge of the Superstitions and it's legends it is superficial......at best.

He really proved that by sending you into the Superstition Mountains, to a specific place.....for a joke. That showed that he had no idea how dangerous the mountains can be, once you get off the marked trails. I assume that would be because on his one trip to the range, he didn't get much farther than the trailhead, where he had his picture taken.

IMHO, anyone who pays any attention to his future ramblings, needs an intervention.

On another subject entirely, I believe you made a salient point about the people who have lately vanished in the mountains.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

Beth,

(though, there are folks who are trying to get someone to re-look at them and verify something that may be a partly-critical factor of age.)

If you mean Jim Hatt's glue test on the heart, I have been told, by reliable sources, that it ain't going to happen. Nothing is written in stone, so to speak, but that idea has been nixed by the powers that be.

I believe the stones are going to remain a "curiosity".

See you soon,

Joe

i hate to say this joe .. but ..


as i stated unless you brake the code you have no chance in hell of translating the stones fact ..if i was standing around telling my captain the corse points north he would have thrown me overboard

i like clear cut navigatable fixes .. stationary landmarks sorry i just can not look at a map and say ok its map .. i want scale of miles ,. elevation scales .. i compairson points .. i want comfromation of topo scale of the same area .. i want a 3 point fix on any kland marks used .. if i cant see the same thing he did when he made the stones its useless ..


you guys have no idea what i found or how i translated the stone or who they were created ,,,

i did not just say i found a treasure ,, these stones must point it out ,.....lol

if you can read a chart better then i can ,...there must be mt's of gold out there ...lol

 

[FEMF]

Hehe FEMF, since I have him on ignore I had no idea what his post was - kinda funny now considering my response to Beth .

In all seriousness, you and Joe make a good point considering there are 4 known missing people in the Superstitions since January. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that 1 or more of those missing folks either followed some of the posts/threads here and found themselves in a situation they were unprepared for, or God forbid even corresponded with someone who may have had a hand in sending them into a dangerous area or situation.

Every man is ultimately responsible for making his or her own decisions, but there's a responsibility here also to not purposely deceive anyone.

I had this same conversation with an author of a Lost Dutchman book recently and was surprised to know that even he felt a certain responsibility for one of the missing men as he knew the man had read his book.

I still hope the families of these missing men are able to come to closure one of these days - the sooner the better.

Hello Cubfan
I'll Second that! I know people who would go looking for someone for less than BB's little games. People don't look kindly on this kind of game playing with other peoples lives. BB, if your there, we have people die out hear every year, without the game playing.
FEMF

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Cubfan,

I understand the situation - as I have heard it here before. And, of course, I think it sucks.

Now, if I were to look on the other side of the coin - I would say that I think what REALLY happened? Is that BB probably didn't think you would show up. If you read all the posts (well, the ones that are left), you will see that most folks treat BB much like they treat some of the freaks on here. And, since I have personally dealt with BB off this forum, I could not lump him in with some of the other folks who have "found it all" through Google earth and other claims. Those are the folks who are doing that kind of crap publicly (and not in a pm started by you), are
actually trying to "lead" folks, in a public forum, into their webs of possibly dangerous, and definitely uninformed, places in the mountains. (by groups, no less).

I think he was surprised that you showed up, and to cover that up, laughed about it - which, I know, is not the right thing to do.

I think - at the very least - - even folks we don't agree with have their value. If it makes you think - and maybe even think of something you didn't think about before, then, you've got something out of it.

Not to mention - this is a public forum - and the deal between you and BB was done by pm or offline, and you were going out there anyway.
And, again, I will repeat - it was a rotten thing to do - and if you have him on ignore - you certainly have your reason.

Do I agree with him? No. Have I gotten information that was true - yes. (proved by separate means, of course).

Either way - I just cannot group him with the "I found it and you are all stupid for not looking at Google Earth" type of folks.

I really don't think the "greed" thing enters into it on either side. Greed fits into many categories. Some folks are greedy for knowledge. Some folks are greedy for money, some people are greedy for recognition. Every single person here, whether they admit it or not - has at least a little greed - as it is such a subjective word. I, am greedy for wilderness, right now. I cannot wait to get out of this town, and get to spend a few months being a wanderer.

Also, we have all done our share of insulting. We get frustrated, we get angry, we are human. And, no matter what some people say, when you
get ticked off, you say the things that you think will get in the best "jab". And, the more we know someone, the better we are at it.

I see no reason to stop responding --- to anyone ---- if I have something to say. Sometimes, its just to "get it off your chest", sometimes it is just to try to get someone to see the other side - not necessarily for them to agree with you - but just to see the other side of the discussion.

Actually, that is why I originally joined this forum - because it contains many, many people that have varying degrees of experiences, knowledge, viewpoints and perspectives. Its not like some other forums where you must all agree or shut up.

Beth

 

[Javaone]

I must disagree with you Beth. You, of all people, are about safety! Luckily Cub was an experienced hiker. What about the inexperienced BB has sent into harms way

Is it a good thing to think it is OK to continue to respond to someone that has admittedly lead someone else astray? What if it doesn't turn out well the next time. People that deceive can be tolerated, but NOT if it can get someone hurt! This type of action NEEDS to be DISCOURIGED!!!

 

[Loke]

from Beth:
... Its not like some other forums where you must all agree or shut up.

*chuckles* and you don't even have to be more specific than that ... sometimes the 'unsaid' is a lot more fun than being spoonfed!

As for you BB, yeah, you're on ignore but occasionally I open up to check.
You have repeated ad nauseatum how stupid we all are and how clever _you_ are. Be that as it may - but the proof is still 'in the pudding'. Ok, you have solved it - like many before you - but you haven't proved a darned thing, you just keep repeating the same over and over and over and how we all shall have to apologize to you. I don't know what it is you are looking for in this forum - you obviously don't listen to a single soul - just repeat you parrot-song. *shrugging shoulders* Obviously, that is your prerogative, but don't be surprised if some (or many) choose to disbelieve you - and remember - the burden of proof (if you really want us/any to believe you) - is on _you_ - not on us to disprove you.

And now - back to --ignore-- and somehow I think this time it will be for good though I know it doesn't bother you, it still gives _me_ some sort of satisfaction ... I can still 'vote' with my legs (so to speak).

I apologize to the forum for being completely off-track with respect to the topic - I shall try not to do it again ...

Per

 

[Cubfan64]

I apologize for my part in derailing this subject - I'm all for ending the BB discussion/bashing despite my part in it so let's get it back on topic.

Thanks

 

[Blindbowman]

from Beth:
... Its not like some other forums where you must all agree or shut up.

*chuckles* and you don't even have to be more specific than that ... sometimes the 'unsaid' is a lot more fun than being spoonfed!

As for you BB, yeah, you're on ignore but occasionally I open up to check.
You have repeated ad nauseatum how stupid we all are and how clever _you_ are. Be that as it may - but the proof is still 'in the pudding'. Ok, you have solved it - like many before you - but you haven't proved a darned thing, you just keep repeating the same over and over and over and how we all shall have to apologize to you. I don't know what it is you are looking for in this forum - you obviously don't listen to a single soul - just repeat you parrot-song. *shrugging shoulders* Obviously, that is your prerogative, but don't be surprised if some (or many) choose to disbelieve you - and remember - the burden of proof (if you really want us/any to believe you) - is on _you_ - not on us to disprove you.

And now - back to --ignore-- and somehow I think this time it will be for good though I know it doesn't bother you, it still gives _me_ some sort of satisfaction ... I can still 'vote' with my legs (so to speak).

I apologize to the forum for being completely off-track with respect to the topic - I shall try not to do it again ...

Per

chrome is the only satisfaction ...!

 

[Javaone]

I apologize for my part in derailing this subject - I'm all for ending the BB discussion/bashing despite my part in it so let's get it back on topic.

Thanks

I'm all for that!

 

[Javaone]

from Beth:
... Its not like some other forums where you must all agree or shut up.

*chuckles* and you don't even have to be more specific than that ... sometimes the 'unsaid' is a lot more fun than being spoonfed!

As for you BB, yeah, you're on ignore but occasionally I open up to check.
You have repeated ad nauseatum how stupid we all are and how clever _you_ are. Be that as it may - but the proof is still 'in the pudding'. Ok, you have solved it - like many before you - but you haven't proved a darned thing, you just keep repeating the same over and over and over and how we all shall have to apologize to you. I don't know what it is you are looking for in this forum - you obviously don't listen to a single soul - just repeat you parrot-song. *shrugging shoulders* Obviously, that is your prerogative, but don't be surprised if some (or many) choose to disbelieve you - and remember - the burden of proof (if you really want us/any to believe you) - is on _you_ - not on us to disprove you.

And now - back to --ignore-- and somehow I think this time it will be for good though I know it doesn't bother you, it still gives _me_ some sort of satisfaction ... I can still 'vote' with my legs (so to speak).

I apologize to the forum for being completely off-track with respect to the topic - I shall try not to do it again ...

Per

 

[Oroblanco]

I must disagree with you Beth. You, of all people, are about safety! Luckily Cub was an experienced hiker. What about the inexperienced BB has sent into harms way

Is it a good thing to think it is OK to continue to respond to someone that has admittedly lead someone else astray? What if it doesn't turn out well the next time. People that deceive can be tolerated, but NOT if it can get someone hurt! This type of action NEEDS to be DISCOURIGED!!!

I realize this was addressed to Beth, but really how many people has Blindbowman "sent" into harms way? Unlike several others here whom have posted GPS coordinates and satellite view maps and openly taunted others (anyone who will) to go in to try to 'prove them wrong', the only incident I am aware of in which Blindbowman sent anyone into the Superstitions was the private exchange between him and Cubfan. I think that was not a nice thing to do but in my opinion it is not on the same scale as some of the others that are bordering on criminal reckless endangerment by openly trying to get people to hike in to Bluff Springs Mountain for instance, which could lead to disaster and even death. Anyway I have to respectfully disagree on including Blindbowman in the same ilk as several of the others whom have posted many 'open invitations' to try to get people to hike in to remote and dangerous places. I do agree that sort of 'snipe hunt' should be discouraged.

To try to tie all this back in to the Peralta stones, are they even necessary to find Jacob Waltz's mine? He never had any, as far as I could tell yet he was able to get to the mine and back repeatedly.
Oroblanco

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Javaone,

Just wanted you to notice that I did try to address your concern in my post, this is what I said:

Those are the folks who are doing that kind of crap publicly (and not in a pm started by you), are
actually trying to "lead" folks, in a public forum, into their webs of possibly dangerous, and definitely uninformed, places in the mountains. (by groups, no less)

As you know, I was not talking about BB when I said that, I was talking about the "I found it with Google Earth" type folks that are on here on a regular basis.

Now, back to our regular scheduled programming on the Peralta Stones.........

Beth

 

[cactusjumper]

Beth

One thing we all have in common when it comes to treasure hunting in the Superstitions, is that no one has shown any solid evidence of treasure or anything else of tangible value.

When I see you at the end of the month, I will show you the best solution to the Stone Map I have ever seen.....and I have seen more than most. None of them, including mine, would ever qualify for a treasure trove permit.

That's because none of the maps, and especially the Stone Maps, can be authenticated as to showing a treasure. Plenty of matching landmarks and trails, but nothing to prove there is anything at the end of the trail.

Scott has been looking at these things for many years. It's his job to give each person a fair hearing. He does that with the patience of Job. However, that does not mean he must spend long periods of time looking at theories that have the scope, breadth and foolishness of bb's stories.

You only need to go back over bb's numerous, far fetched, stories over the years to see how impossible his job is. On the other hand, some of these treasure hunters have found Native American sites that were unknown previously. I know this for a fact.

Take care,

Joe

 

[shadow hunter]

i am not an a treasure hunter by any means, but i got caught up in the story and the maps after a recent story here in the news about 3 men getting lost in the supers. i am a local resident and have heard the legends over the years. it was not until a month ago that i started reading information and the clues spoken by waltz. however, it is not so much what he said, but it is more of what he did not say, and what his actions were. Those actions speak louder then words. Taking all this information and applying it to arizona history, things started to narrow down an area. I am not making claim i have found anything, i will not be setting out on foot until mid december to explore my theories, but could it be possible that i stumbled upon the heart of the map? what i have found is a creek that follows the same course on the map. (not sure what the 18 spots are) have not been there in person yet. I have found the creeks that connect that go to the daggers point. i have found the start of the trail to the heart, but most importantly i found the trail and reason why there is an arrow pointing around to the top, from below it is too steep, you have to go around and start from the top. also i have found that omega looking freature. everything seems to align perfectly so far. i am not trying to boast, i am merely letting you know where i currently stand. what i want to know is does anyone have any guesses about the equation on the bottom of the map means? 2= 3 the the circle 18 = 7 ?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Just listening.

Am in Tucson, but may have to leave before the LDM FREE pressure cooker chow sesson. Bert and I have to be in Hermosillo at that time. She is the legal administrator for two different Canadian mining co's and they have a series of critical meetings scheduled for those dates snifffff.

Ever heard of a rain check Joe Y los Oros? Joe, I like my steak medium well done, no blood dripping when I cut it. Find out from Oro how he makes his egg shell coffee.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Javaone]

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,149002.0.html < Advertisement – It’s a fun and informative thread by “Old Dog” if anyone wants to check it out…

Any who, _ This “Peralta Stone” I found to be interesting_ OK_ maybe NOT a Peralta stone, but it’s a stone, in the Superstitions ….
I don't think it could have anything to do with a fence; the cow would have to be airlifted up there... It would even be a challenge for "Somehiker" to get there…

The second is also in the Supes – I found it intriguing… 8)

Anyone else have something they wouldn’t mind sharing? In the Superstitions?? Hmmm




Jerry
Yes,_ the “underline space”(_) thing I stole from Loke. Like the way it works…

 

[Blindbowman]

i am not an a treasure hunter by any means, but i got caught up in the story and the maps after a recent story here in the news about 3 men getting lost in the supers. i am a local resident and have heard the legends over the years. it was not until a month ago that i started reading information and the clues spoken by waltz. however, it is not so much what he said, but it is more of what he did not say, and what his actions were. Those actions speak louder then words. Taking all this information and applying it to arizona history, things started to narrow down an area. I am not making claim i have found anything, i will not be setting out on foot until mid december to explore my theories, but could it be possible that i stumbled upon the heart of the map? what i have found is a creek that follows the same course on the map. (not sure what the 18 spots are) have not been there in person yet. I have found the creeks that connect that go to the daggers point. i have found the start of the trail to the heart, but most importantly i found the trail and reason why there is an arrow pointing around to the top, from below it is too steep, you have to go around and start from the top. also i have found that omega looking freature. everything seems to align perfectly so far. i am not trying to boast, i am merely letting you know where i currently stand. what i want to know is does anyone have any guesses about the equation on the bottom of the map means? 2= 3 the the circle 18 = 7 ?

i know just what those numbers mean .. ..

 

[somehiker]

You might be surprised Jerry.I've been to some of the higher and out of the way places out there.
Every trip,I add a couple more pins to the map.These two pins are close together.

Regards:SH.

 

[shadow hunter]

i know just what those numbers mean .. ..
[/quote]

BB,
Sir, no offense, but for someone who seems to have the answers to all the questions you sure do have a whole lot of nothing to show from it. By no means am I trying to be rude, but looking over the many many months of this thread the only conclusion I have come to about you is you have nothing to offer a real seeker except entertainment. I would not believe you about you theory even if you told it to me. You have proven nothing of your findings. So angain I pose the same question to anyone else, does anyone have a theory on those numbers?