The Peralta Stones

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote

no one wants the paper work that goes with them ...lol

LOL How true! I doubt that even the USFS wants to wade through it - over-regulation at its most blatant.
Oroblanco

 

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[Blindbowman]

ya did you read what i delited ...

wait it gets better ...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

No I must have missed it, if you posted something after my last one; I was trying to catch up on some other discussions; in one case the title really alarmed me - it said "The Meanest Animal I Ever Encountered" so I had to find out if someone had run across her but fortunately all they were talking about were badgers.

If it is something you don't want seen in public, don't forget we can send PMs.
Roy

 

[Blindbowman]

No I must have missed it, if you posted something after my last one; I was trying to catch up on some other discussions; in one case the title really alarmed me - it said "The Meanest Animal I Ever Encountered" so I had to find out if someone had run across her but fortunately all they were talking about were badgers.

If it is something you don't want seen in public, don't forget we can send PMs.
Roy

is badger mean X wife

 

[Oroblanco]

No I must have missed it, if you posted something after my last one; I was trying to catch up on some other discussions; in one case the title really alarmed me - it said "The Meanest Animal I Ever Encountered" so I had to find out if someone had run across her but fortunately all they were talking about were badgers.

If it is something you don't want seen in public, don't forget we can send PMs.
Roy

is badger mean X wife

No, I never married her - would sooner wrassle one of those badgers while trapped in a mail sack with it, but like I said they were just talking about the nicer little ones that live in the wilds, not the one I was afraid someone had encountered.

 

[Blindbowman]

i watch the red zone foot ball sunday for like 7 hours ... do you think that will help me solve the legends ..lol


when should a x wife stay in touch .. when she is standing on a land mine ...LOL

 

[Oroblanco]

 

[Oroblanco]

Got to sign out, will check back later.

 

[Blindbowman]

all jokeing aside .. the facts .. if scott says there are experts that say the stones are fake .. and i am the only one to translate the stones correctly then it is not up to those experts to say these stones are fakes if they can not correctly translate the stone .. fact .. i out right says his experts dont know how to correctly translate the stones or they would have paid these faults statements . that are in fact out right wrong .,.. i will bet i can translate these stones correctly in court and that any judge will known with out any dout what so ever i have translated the stones and they are not fakes .. very complex .. and skilled design but not fakes at all ....i am willing to face any experts they can call ...

if they have experts that say these are fakes let those experts come to court and prove they are fakes .. i am willing to stand up and prove they are not fakes ..

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

BB,

All joking aside - here is your problem with the stones.

First: All the "experts" that have been asked to look at them and give a opinion on the stones, have said they are not real. The reasons they have given for not being real has absolutely nothing to do with deciphering them. I don't think any experts have ever tried to figure out what the
markings and pictures meant. They have concluded that they are not of the proper type of carvings (tool marks rather than hand done), the stones
did not come from the right area, and the wearing of the stones were not proper. This is not MY conclusions, these are the things that have been
mentioned by "experts".

I'm highlighting the word "experts" for a reason. That reason is very simple. Nobody (important) cares what I think, or what you think, or what
anyone else who is not an "recognized expert" has to say. That is the main issue of a mere mortal like treasure hunters are subject to. If you
don't have a degree in something that would make you a possible expert in archaeology, or some other similar line of experience, the powers
that be, whether its Scott or others - will not care to listen to what you, or anyone else who is not certified, has to say.

The "experts" don't care about the carvings in it, except that they think it was done by modern tools. I'm pretty sure they have not translated
them, and I do not think a correct translation would mean anything to them, as they would simply think that someone "modern" made the
codes.

That is the problem you have. That's the problem that everyone who has interest in deciphering the stones and getting a TT permit. The very very first thing you, or someone else has to prove to someone important, is that the stones are not modern. Then, if you are able to do that, you will have to convince a recognized expert, to have that presented, before you ever get to prove a translation. Because the higher ups are not
going to listen to your explanation (or anyone else's), until you get a recognized expert on your side. And the chance of getting an expert on
your side is about nil. Certainly, without a doubt, anyone who has already examined them (experts, I mean), will not reverse their opinions, and
in fact - and I can prove this - they don't want anything else to to with the stones, as far as examining them - though, there are folks who are
trying to get someone to re-look at them and verify something that may be a partly-critical factor of age.

It is a little moot to "age" the stones themselves - every stone on earth is old. It is the other things with the stones that have to be dated, and
has to be dated differently than what is already considered "modern". THAT, at the risk of repeating myself, is the very first thing that has to
be done. And, until you can do that, and then get a recognized expert to verify that (somehow), the emphasis right now being on the repair
of the one stone, then, and only then, can you take your expert, and your translation - AND (this is very important also) obtain "proof without
doubt" of conclusions on those translations (meaning, you will have to find the results of your translations, and take extremely good pictures, and have your expert in your pictures) - then, you could possibly successfully get someone higher up to look at your evidence, and give you
a TT permit. And, even then, you would have to continue to document what, exactly, is found, and photograph that, etc., until you get to where
you need to be. After all that - if its a mine - too bad. A cache - yippee. But, a mine, what you would gain is recogition. (and probably a bunch
of sneaks would pull out all the minerals they could get their hands on, until there is a crater in the ground, and the Forest Service shuts it down completely, based on some sort of "national treasure" crap).

This is not my personal ideas, its the history of what has already happened with the stones so far. Translating them - would mean nothing.
Proving that those stones are anything other than the what the "experts" have already said they were, is the first, biggest hurdle.

Beth

 

[Blindbowman]

i fully agree .. but as i stated you for get one thing as did the so called experts .. i have 70 - 100 chicomoztoc hieroglyphics on a hidden cave wall cut into the stone.. now i don't know how they are going to tell me these dint exist because they are the only hieroglyphics from chicomoztoc ever found .. the mine is in the secret area , the drawings have tribal war drums that out right id this site as the real chicomoztoc .. if any expert out there wants to walk to this site and eat his words i am more then willing to teach them how a savant see your world ..!your world says they have experts ..Lil

IMHO your expert are going to learn more then they ever knew was possible ...

i could care less about the stones .. or what they say ... any expert that thinks he can prove this site is not chicomoztoc .. step the F up and lets have it out .. i have not only solve the stone and what they locate .. i have found chicomoztoc and . yes i can prove it ...with out a dot ...

the tribal art can not be faked .. they are cut in the walls of the cave .. it would take hunders of years to do them ..


all you so called experts step up .. !
come play the game you can not win .. i already won !

that's not enough my best hand yet ....Lil

when i publish my photos of chicomoztoc .. let your so called experts step forwardand line up to apologize for being wrong ..

 

[Cubfan64]

Beth, I admire you and Roy trying to educate BB, but after all this time and reading all his posts do you honestly think you'll ever get REAL logic through to him?

Somehow in BB's head he's convinced that by putting together a theory of how to read the stones (without showing ANY LEGITIMATE PROOF) to the "powers that be," he can show them that the stones were made hundreds of years ago by whoever for the pope/Roman Catholic Church. He constantly touts his amazing ability to use logic to prove everything and yet 99.9999% of the rest of us know without a doubt that many of his ideas are completely 180 degrees from logic and are truly illogical.

Here's the ONLY way BB could ever hope to convince the NFS or any other organization of the proof that the Stone Maps lead to something of importance. START by showing them clear and concise photos and videos of EXACTLY what the Stone Maps lead to and get their attention, then work your way backwards showing how the maps were interpretted in order to reach that spot, then finally explain the theory as to who and why those Stone Maps were made. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you're well aware, he will consistently attempt to convince them by working things exactly backwards and will lose them in the first minute.

THAT is how logic is supposed to work, however because his ultimate goal involves being the person who receives the glory for locating whatever he believes he's located, and/or legally claiming the "prize" so he can pass the legacy and financially help his family (which I believe is another thing he's mentioned as a goal), he'll never reveal anything regarding the "prize" until the NFS or other organization grants him a permit or claim.

It's a double edged sword for him - he won't get the permit or legal rights without showing his complete hand, but he won't show his complete hand to the authorities until he gets the permit or legal rights.

This will never end - save yourself a headache by just putting him on ignore like most of the rest of us have done and stay sane .

Hope to see you guys in a few weeks if you're able to get a way for a couple days.

Paul

 

[Blindbowman]

how foolish can you be ...lol dont answer that cup we all ready sent you to the top of a mt with nothing more then a few words to fire your greed ...lol

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

BB,

The "experts" I am talking about are not the treasure hunters - I think you are confusing who it is important to impress. Its very easy to talk
to the "experts" (the ones that are still alive) that the Forest Service, etc., are listening to. It's not the people you are meeting with every day.

If you convinced every single person here - it still would mean nothing. It is the university guys, etc. that are important. Also, you could show
the experts 1000 cave dwellings - again - it would not matter. Only the experts that have written their opinions, and only the area that concerns the stones (in your opinion) are important. That's the people who have to be convinced that you might have something, and you have to show all the why's and wherefore's before you will even get them back off their chairs, and start looking at the stones again, as they have already come to their conclusions. If you want, you should talk to those experts - not anyone here or on other forums. You will need to get someone important on your side. Its the way the world works. If it is important enough to you, that is what you will have to do, and the only way to do that is to prove to THEM (not us) that you have information that they do not.


Cubfan,

I understand what you are saying - but, frankly, I've talked with BB for quite a few years now, and even if I don't agree with something, it
still is a conversation worth having. (imo)

I understand, to a point, some of the frustration - not just from BB, but from other treasure hunters and other treasures. More than once a person has spent many years looking for something, finally get it all figured out, only to have the government take it away - or try to take it away. (shipwreck diving comes immediately to mind, because, there is a lot of work that goes into finding a ship, diving on it, finding out which one it is, proving which one it is, etc., and then 6 countries, including ours, not to mention states, individually, all want a piece of the pie - or the whole darned pie). It makes a treasure hunter not want to tip their hands. But - regardless of those facts - you have got to, you have no choice. Your best bet is to, at the very least, get all the possible information and proof possible (without breaking the laws), and to get a professional expert on your side, before you tip your hand. (especially in a case like this).

Personally - I would absolutely LOVE to see someone find treasure - any treasure. It warms the heart of a treasure hunter.

I have talked to almost everyone (professional) that has examined the stones - and I have their reports. If - and that's an if, they are real, I don't think the solution is in the Supers. Because, I know, for a fact, that there is at least one place that you can "overlay" a stone map to another spot, and it is an exact match. All the squiggles, etc., match up, if you orient "north" where it is indicated, and you assume that all those squiggles are drainages. It even answers the question of that "symbol" (and I don't believe a Tobias has anything to do with it). Even then, it doesn't mean they are real - it just means that it matches a certain spot.

You know, I have a nephew who is a certifiable genius. He possesses absolutely NO tact, no social skills, he writes terribly, half the time I don't get what he is saying - but, he can do a math problem - a complicated algorithmic calculation - without writing down anything but the original problem - and come out with the correct answer, in his head. (it might take others 10 pages of calculations to accomplish). Its very annoying, and so is my nephew. But, there is no denying that, in certain areas, he's the man you want to hire to do certain jobs (and he has never had
a problem being employed), and they put up with his "personality" because of what he can do. So, I try to remember that, just because someone cannot or does not talk, or think or conclude the same things the way I do, it doesn't mean squat, and they could have something important to add.

Beth

 

[cactusjumper]

Beth,

(though, there are folks who are trying to get someone to re-look at them and verify something that may be a partly-critical factor of age.)

If you mean Jim Hatt's glue test on the heart, I have been told, by reliable sources, that it ain't going to happen. Nothing is written in stone, so to speak, but that idea has been nixed by the powers that be.

I believe the stones are going to remain a "curiosity".

See you soon,

Joe

 

[BILL96]

In upstate NY their is a sanitarium with with a large dayroom and in this dayroom are computers that the inmates can use. Since these inmates are not able to leave the grounds they create their own "online" worlds with these computers, they have no real sense of reality or the real world. The inmates are heavily medicated and this greatly contributes to there disconnect from the real world but they can "role play" and they suck in the outside world into their fantasies this is their life, its a sad but its all they have.

 

[cactusjumper]

Beth & Roy,

First, bb came here from YAHOOKA.com, a forum for potheads. On that forum he touted the fact that he had created a "super" strain of pot. At the same time, he bragged about how he was making fools of the members of this forum.

As the years have passed, and we have all encouraged his......stories, they have gotten increasingly wilder.
Some of us have decided to put the "jester" on IGNORE!

As I see it, and I could be wrong, some people are still looking at these conversations the same way I used to. It's kind of interesting to banter back and forth with a clown. Big shoes, big red nose, painted face and a funny hat. Makes us all smile. No harm, no foul......right?

Well.....maybe yes, maybe no. Things have changed somewhat this year. Once again, people are finding death in the Superstition Mountains. People who have listened to our exchanges with people like bb and Mr. Kimm are going into the mountains with no real knowledge or preparation.

The fact that those of us who do have years of practical experience in this killer environment, give some kind of acceptance to the bb's and Kimm's of the world, by trying to carry on a logical/sane conversation with them, gives them stature to those who may not have the ability to separate the truth from the fiction.

There seems little doubt that some of these crazy theories have brought death to these folks. I have put all of those kind of posters on Ignore, and will continue to do so. NO MORE TALK!.....At least from me.

Just one man's opinion, that we might be doing some harm. I expect others will have a different opinion.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Beth, let me give you a scenario and you tell me how you and Roy would react to it...

Say a few years ago you started corresponding with BB now and then and trying to follow his posts and theories. At some point you contact him via PM and mention that you're going to be making a trip to the general area he's been talking about and offer to visit any location he can point you to that would provide any proof of the legitimacy of his theories. You make it clear that you find his theories curious and hard to follow, but potentially very interesting and would like to have a reason for "siding" with him in some of his public conversations on TNet. He points you to a specific location with GPS coordinates and explains where to go and what to look for. You go to the location and other than a nice view of the mountains you don't find anything else he implied was there.

After returning you converse again by a PM explaining the situation and offer some photographs taken at the spot and ask some questions. His response is to to laugh at you for falling for his "wild goose chase," laugh that your "greed" got the best of you and further add that he and his group were also in the mountains at the same time and actually just sent me to that location as "bait" for the mountain lion they believe was in the area so it would stay away from them.

Ask Joe about the number of e-mails and PM's I sent him 3-4 years ago suggesting people "back off" BB because he may very well have something interesting and valuable to add to the conversation.

Honestly, how would you and Roy react to a scenario like that? That's the reason I have BB on ignore and don't find a single thing in any conversation with him worth a "hoot."

I'm with you 100% in that I'd love to find out about someone finding treasure - I find the stories fascinating and applaud the people who've accomplished the feat.

I find it extremely strange and illogical to have BB constantly berate "treasure hunters" for their greed, when it's obvious he has that same greed. If he had no greed whatsoever (either monetarily or narcisistic), it would be SO SIMPLE for him to prove hsi find to the world. Simply take a wide assortment of people as a group out to his location with video cameras and reporters and prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt. He'd likely lose any possible financial reward, and may lose any "glory" reward as far as being the one who finally solved it, but he'd have the satisfaction of knowing he did it - the reason he doesn't do that is simply greed - just like any of us, despite his claims that he has NO greed at all and is purely altruistic.

I could completely understand the direction he's taking if he were to admit his greed - it fits right in with your comments that I'm certain there are a number of treasure hunters who have lost their finds due to government or other organizations taking it from them - if someone has no greed at all (as BB has implied), that shouldn't bother them in the least should it? For the record, I'm a human and on occasion even I exhibit greed .

I used to completely agree with your last statements that BB despite any personality issues could have something extremely valuable to add to the conversation. I've mentioned before that I offer every person I meet my respect - it's up to them as to whether they retain that respect or not based on their words and actions towards me. What I stated above is why nothing BB has to say holds any value for me whatsoever anymore - it's certainly not my loss, but it most assureadly is his as I could have been a strong supporter of his theories.

Anyways - I understand where you're coming from Beth and I hope you can understand my viewpoint as well as the reasons behind it. I can guarantee you that if I ever pick up a newspaper and see a photograph of BB on the front page being acknowledged as the person to finally solve the Stone Maps and recover a treasure of immense historical and financial value, I'd have a big smile on my face and be saying outloud, "well, I'll be d&%^ed, he really DID know what he was talking about, and I wouldn't feel even a twinge of greed or envy towards him just as I wouldn't towards anyone in the same situation.

All the best,
paul

 

[FEMF]

how foolish can you be ...lol dont answer that cup we all ready sent you to the top of a mt with nothing more then a few words to fire your greed ...lol

BB
I've never responded to your posts before, But you did Cup wrong, and you know it! Your a pin-da-hoe, my Friend. I'd quit bringing Cup up if I was you, your only digging your hole deeper! If he had been hurt out there, it would have be on your ass, my friend!
FEMF

 

[Cubfan64]

Hehe FEMF, since I have him on ignore I had no idea what his post was - kinda funny now considering my response to Beth .

In all seriousness, you and Joe make a good point considering there are 4 known missing people in the Superstitions since January. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that 1 or more of those missing folks either followed some of the posts/threads here and found themselves in a situation they were unprepared for, or God forbid even corresponded with someone who may have had a hand in sending them into a dangerous area or situation.

Every man is ultimately responsible for making his or her own decisions, but there's a responsibility here also to not purposely deceive anyone.

I had this same conversation with an author of a Lost Dutchman book recently and was surprised to know that even he felt a certain responsibility for one of the missing men as he knew the man had read his book.

I still hope the families of these missing men are able to come to closure one of these days - the sooner the better.