Bueynos Diaz,
The following attachment involves a conversation between Padre Kino and Manje concerning an error involving a wrong turn, which resulted in the failure of the Coronado expedition in actually locating the Seven Cities of Cibola. Understand a very important fact; Padre Kino and Manje knew where the Seven Cities were/are located. We will take this initial information and developed a foundation of understanding and I will provide the proof that Kino and Manje knew what they were talking about.
The reason we are starting here is due to the fact the treasures that were hidden in this area actually existed. Father Kino knew the truth, as did Coronado, De Niza, Friar Marcos, Estaban and notably Antonio de Herrera, a noted historian who worked directly with King Phillip in Spain. Antonio had documented all of the accounts from those who were involved in the New World and produced a number of volumes regarding these historical documents including those from Cortez and Bernal Dias (Diaz). You will have to excuse my short and incomplete comments as the whole of this work is very large.
Check out this amazing piece of history and do your homework (if interested) and let me know about your thoughts and questions. Ok Lamar, the Jesuits are involved my friend, sit back and I will provide the evidence to prove this statement is correct.
Another point I wish to make;
John 3:16 (New Living Translation)
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
This scripture (is it really the Word of God?) Or an atrocity to the original Greek and Hebrew?
It is contained in a Bible, although the words were translated from original texts, a father re-wrote the scriptures so that his daughter could make sense of what the scriptures were actually saying. John 3:16 is a perfect example of a verse found on millions of 8" by 11" sized paper formats and framed.
Many are very old indeed, worth millions of dollars. Some are cheap fakes, and you can also buy this framed John 3:16 posters for a buck, less the frame.
Anyway, an old antique copy of this work was found worth over thousands of dollars, at least until it was proven a fraud. Does this fact insinuate that the scripture written on this fake art object is also untrue? Enter the "Peralta Stone Tablets". I will show you how to interpret many of the symbols found on these antiquated modern day produced stone tablets (not all symbols).
Have a great week,
Ellie Baba
Father Kino and Manje discuss historical and geographical mythology
COMMENTARY ON MARK OF NICE, 1 539- 481
[City of] Mexico, fell upon a river so large and full
of water (caudaloso) that it prevented his crossing;
viceroy, Antonio de Mendoza, at Tonala, in New Galicia, Nov.
25, 1538. We have these instructions, in Spanish, French,
Italian, and English, in divers records; also Friar Marcos' own
acknowledgment of their reception by him, as just said. Pur-
suant thereto, he left San Miguel de Culiacan, in Sinaloa, Mar.
7, 1539. with his guide Stephen, his lay brother Honorato, and
the Indians. His course was by the highway northnorthwest
to Rio de Petatlan, the modern Rio del Fuerte, where Fray
Honorato fell sick and was left behind. Continuing the same
course, approximately parallel with, but at considerable distance
from, the coast, Fray Marcos crossed the Rios Mayo and Yaqui,
and about the middle of April was at a place called Vacapa or
Bacapa. This is specially to be noted; for the name has been
confounded with a certain San Luis Beltran de Bacapa, in
northwestern Sonora near the Arizona line, and thus Fray Mar-
cos has been sent by various writers promenading in a country
he never even approached, to the dire confusion of his whole
route. But Bacapa was an Indian village on the headwaters
of the Rio Matapa, about lat. 29", and was at or near the modern
town of Matape, in central Sonora, where the Jesuit mission of
San Jose de Matapa was founded in 1629. It was this miserable
malidentification of Bacapa, traceable back at least to Mange,
Mar. 12, 1702,^ which threw Friar Marcos' route out, altogether
too far to the northwest, at the hands of many historians or
commentators, who fetched him up low down on the Gila, made
'At this date, when Mange was with Kino at San Luis de Bacapa, he
indulged in the bit of historical and geographical mythology I wish to
signalize as such : " Y parece es por la que paso el ejercito de Francisco
Vazquez Coronado el aiio de 1540 cuando fueron a descubrir las 7 ciudades
de los llanos de Zivola, pues este nombre mismo le da el cronista Antonio
de Herrera en la de cada 4. a descubriendo este viaje, y que dista 40 leguas
del mar, y la misma distancia hallamos en ella," etc. Bacapa ! One day's
journey from Sonoita ! O Coronate .' Quandoque qualescunque quantcB-
cunque fabulce de te narrantur ! It all comes from mistaking this Bacapa
for the place on Rio Matape of the same or similar name, which happens to
be about the same distance from the gulf.
Father Louis Hoffman’s translation;
"And it seems that the army of Francisco Vazquez passed through (here) in the year 1540 when they went to discover the 7 cities on the plains of Zibola which is the same name that the chronicler Antonio de Herrera gives in each of the 4 ( 4 what?) discovering (discovered) this trip and it distances 40 leagues from the sea, and that is the same distance that we found it to be," etc. Bacapa! One day's journey from Sonoita! Oh Coronado, (here are 3 different possibilities)
1.- "when anyone speaks of you, it is of fabulous things (riches) (?)
2.- ..................speaks fabulous things of you
3.- when anyone speaks of you, fabulous (rich) things are mentioned
Second Translation;
"And it seems it happened by the army of Francisco Vasquez Coronado the aiio 1540 when they went to discover the 7 cities of the plains of Zivola (Cibola) because this name itself gives the chronicler Antonio de Herrera in the in 4. To discover this trip, which is 40 leagues from the sea, and the same distance found in it,"etc. Bacapa! One day's journey from Sonoita! O Coronato, " Qualescunque Quandoque quantcB-cunque fabulce narrantur tea!
482 COMMENTARY ON MARK OF NICE, 1 539-
(this was no doubt the Colorado — interpolation of the
scholiast) ; and he (or it — the relation) continues, say-
him the discoverer of the Casa Grande of that river, and then
spirited him to Cibola as best they could: see for example Niza’s
alleged but impossible route, on the map facing p. 42 of Ban-
croft's Hist. Ariz, and N. M.
Friar Marcos stayed some days at Bacapa, whence he dis-
patched Stephen ahead to reconnoiter, telling him to go north
some 50 or 60 leagues and send back word of what he found.
The second day after Easter Sunday he followed after, and in
three days reached the Rio Sonora in the vicinity of modern
Babiacora. Here was a village of Opatas, who had given
Stephen his first reports of Cibola, duly sent back to the friar;
Cibola was said to be 30 days' journey thence, to be the first one
of seven cities; and other provinces called Marata, Acus, and
Totonteac were reported. Friar Marcos followed up the Rio
Sonora for a week in the wake of the negro, who appears to
have been meanwhile hurrying on ahead to Cibola, thus to
secure for himself the glory of discovering that kingdom of
which so many wonders had been narrated — and in fact he did
acquire that glory, meeting death at the same time. The friar
took formal possession of the Sonora valley, and on the seventh
day reached the last settlement, somewhere in the vicinity of
modern Bacuachi, a little north of the better known Arizpe.
Then for four days he traveled northward " en el despoblado."
This term " despoblado," translated " desert," has been a fruit-
ful source of misunderstanding regarding the route of Coronado
as well as of Friar Marcos. It does not mean a desert, in a
physiographic sense, but simply a deserted, depopulated, or an
uninhabited place — in fine, a wilderness; the traverse of which,
still northward, took the friar over from headwaters of Rio
Sonora to sources of Rio Nexpa or the modern San Pedro
river, on the confines of Arizona. I regard this identification
as assured; those who have sent Marcos down the modern Rio
COMMENTARY ON MARK OF NICE, 1 539- 483
ing that the Indians of this (river) informed him that
at about ten days' journey to the north there was an-
Santa Cruz, through Tucson, Florence, Phoenix, or anywhere
else so far west, are certainly at fault; he was on the San Pedro,
as he was also with Coronado the next year; and he went down
that river, past the vicinity of Tombstone and other well-known
Arizona places.
At this point in the Relacion comes up a matter which
seems to have needlessly puzzled many commentators, and
even caused some of them to send Fray Marcos to a sup-
posed west coast in an impossible lat. 35°. But I find
nothing in the original Spanish to require such a forcible
construction of his words. I think that he does not say
he went to see about the trend of the coast, but simply sought
to learn about it ("quiselo saber," he says) from hearsay; "y asi
fui en demanda delta y vi claramente " need not mean more than
that he demanded of Indians how the case was, and was given
to understand clearly what they told him. At this stage of his
journey he was on the Rio San Pedro, then called Nexpa, say
200 miles or more from the Gulf of California in an air line, say
lat. 31° 30' or 40', among the Sobaipuri Indians; and he was fol-
lowing down the river northward.
At the last village of the Sobaipuris Friar Marcos remained
three days and then plunged into the despoblado or wilderness,
which he was told it would take him 15 days to cross, to reach
Cibola. This was on the 9th of May old style, or the 19th
new style. He was still traveling on the trail of the negro,
which probably is not now ascertainable with entire precision,
as it was " across country " and not along any recognizable
water-course after the San Pedro had been left. His point of
departure from this river is not fixed; but in any event his mean
course was about north northeast, across the Gila and the
Salado, necessarily, and so on to Zuiii. It seems to me alto-
gether most probable that Estevan’s trail, which Friar Marcos
484 COMMENTARY ON MARK OF NICE, 1 539.
Other larger river, inhabited by much people, whose
multitude they explained with fistfuls of sand; that
followed exactly, was the same as, or scarcely differed from,
that which Coronado followed, accompanied by the friar, the
very next year. As lately worked out by Mr. Hodge, this
route left the San Pedro in the vicinity of the present Benson;
went through Dragoon and Railroad passes, as the railroad
does now; reached the Gila at or near Solomonville (in which
vicinity was the much mooted Chichilticalli or Red House of
the Coronado relations); passed the Gila Bonito high up, and
thus in the S. E. corner of the present White Mountain reser-
vation; crossed the Salado or Salt river, believed to be the Rio
de las Balsas or Raft river of the Coronado relations; and thus
attained some of the headwaters of the Colorado Chiquito;
whence the distance was short to the Rio Vermejo or modern
Zuni river, which appears to have been struck a few miles below
the point where it crosses the present boundary between
Arizona and New Mexico. Thence it was only a day's journey
to the first Zunian or Cibolan pueblo, Hawiku, about six miles
east of the boundary last said.
Pursuing the route thus sketched, or one closely approxi-
mate thereto, for twelve days, which brought the friar within
two or three days of his destination, on the 21st-31st of May,
he was met by a fugitive from Cibola — one of the many Indians
who had accompanied Estevanico thither — with the startling
news that the negro had been killed by the Cibolans. Ac-
counts of the affair differ in detail, as usual, and it is not neces-
sary to go into them here; of the main fact there is no question.
This catastrophe put an entrada into Cibola out of the ques-
tion; but Friar Marcos determined not to desist without at
least a view of the promised land. He was led by two of his
Indians to a spot whence he sighted the nearest one of the
Seven Cities of Cibola, la qual estd scntada en un llano, a la fald-a
de un cerro redondo — " which is situated in a plain at the skirt
COMMENTARY OK MARK OF NICE, 1 539- 485
they had houses of three stories, and walled about
(were) their pueblos, and that they went clothed
and shod with antelope (skins) and mantles of cotton.
My opinion is confirmed by the fundamental fact {el
fundamento grabe) that, the river coming from the
northeast with regard to the place where I acquired
information thereof, there is agreement of the ten-
days' journey to the river cited in the relation above
mentioned. Also in the circumstances of the cloth-
ing I have grounds (fundamento — for my opinion),
of a round hill." This was not Kiakima, as Bandelier once
thought, but, as Hodge has shown, it was the Pueblo of
Hawiku, Hauicu, or Havico, a mile or so from modern Zuni
Hot Springs, or Ojo Caliente. At his coign of vantage, in full
view of this southwestern one of the Zuiii pueblos or Cities of
Cibola, Friar Marcos erected a stone cairn with a wooden cross
atop, took possession in due form of Cibola, Totonteac, Acus, and
Marata, named the whole country Nuevo Reyno de San Fran-
cisco, and turned back from his great discovery " with much
more fright than food " (con harto mas temor que comida), as he
pithily says in his Relacion.
Such, in briefest outline, are the journey and discovery of Friar
Marcos de Niza. There never need have been the slightest
question, much less mystery, of the location of the Seven Cities
of Cibola, whose identification with the Zuiiian pueblos has
never been entirely lost sight of, though so often disputed or
denied, down to the present day. After this exploit the monk
made all haste to return to Culiacan by the way he had gone
then to Cibola: and by September, 1539, he had duly attested
the report which he made to the proper authorities at the City
of Mexico, where he died March 25, 1558.
