The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[johnmark29020]

And there ain't no cabins, canoes, crafts or kumbaya around the campfire at the "Banned Camp" ....

What is the banned camp fire.

 

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[H-2 CHARLIE]

Proof is in the pudding and not one person has a pincy pc. of proof .

 

[deducer]

Reavis' "Peralta Grant"...outlined in red.
Superstition Wilderness approximate boundaries...outlined in yellow.
View attachment 1034335

Thanks for doing the comparison, SH. Hadn't realized just how small the Superstition Wilderness was in comparison.

All this land for just a captain of dragoons. That should have set off a few alarms.

 

[deducer]

deducer
I know how don't exist any records to prove how the Superstitions were Peralta's property . The only documents , are ( if from some reasons were vanished ) in the Reavis evidence folder, in the archives of the Court where the trial was done .

There isn't any record, anywhere of any Peraltas owning property in the Superstitions.

Because you use the logic more than the evidence , can you answer to my question ?
From hundreds Spanish and Mexican nobles in all over the California , Arizona , New Mexico , etc. , why Reavis have chosen Miguel Peralta ?
Only an insane man ( Reavis was not because went to jail ) would start this petition without original documents . Had Royal A. Johnson a legalized document from Seville's archives which reports how didn't exist any document in relation with the Miguel de Peralta land grant ? If had I would like to see it .

Who knows why?

I am not denying that there was ever a Miguel Peralta, or a family of Peraltas. They may have mined in the Superstitions (although I have not seen proof of that), but they did not own property there, did not have any business or relationship with the Spanish or Mexican government, and as far as I know, did not have anything to do with the Jesuits. If you or anyone else can prove me wrong, then I'm more than happy to change my position.

Like I said previously, if you read the report, you'll find answers to some of your questions.

Once again, the Peralta land grant was proven to be a fabrication, and Reavis was sent to prison for it.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne

I agree . I believe how if Waltz was younger in 1890 , after the Reavis inability to obtain the Peralta's property , he would claimed the LDM and other mines in the Superstitions .

Don't know about any other mines found or worked by Waltz (in the Sups). He only spoke of his "richest" mine, the big "funnel shaped pit" with the drift down below and a telltale vein down slope below the drift which he hid with rock and other debris. He never mentioned a silver mine, or a silver with gold mine, as the mine near Iron Mtn. appears to have been...or cashed out any silver ore for that matter. Be that as it may, the Waltz/LDM story, as best I can boil it down, begins with a chance meeting down south between Waltz, Weiser, and Miguel Peralta (Jr) where by circumstance the three form a partnership to work the gold mines in the Supes which had been abandoned after the massacre in 1848, partly due to the tragic end of that expedition as well as the American annexation of everything north of the Gila R. after 1848 and the Gadsden Purchase in '54. Any "ownership" of these mines would have been valid only under frontier law...ie: might makes rights/finders-keepers, since the area had never been properly surveyed or mapped by anyone connected to the Spanish or later Mexican government. The Jesuits were never granted the right to establish mission control north of the Gila, so they could not have "granted" any part of that territory to anyone, IMO. Neither could have Franciscans, who were unable to conduct any missionary activities due to the Yavapai/Apache presence, effectively making it as a no-mans land until the 1870's.
Once Waltz and Weiser had been to and worked the mine, at least the way I see the story, and they returned to Mexico with Peralta with their shared gains of ore, Peralta offered to trade any further interest in the mine in return for Waltz and Weiser's share of the ore...less expenses and grubstake I would assume...leaving W&W free to return to the Sups as the new "owners" of the mine. While making their way back to the "Peralta Mine", they happened to hear someone breaking rock and ....

BUUUTT...Some of the questions which do come to mind are:

Seems possible that the mine worked by the three partners was not the LDM, but another rich mine entirely. That the mine where they found and killed the Mexicans was far more enticing than the original plan to return and uncover/work the "Peralta" mine ?
Was the Iron Mtn. "pit mine" the mine actually worked by W/W and Miguel, whereby some of the "clues" originated with this part of Waltz's reminiscing, but were included with those pertaining to the "richest mine", aka LDM, by those who were recollecting his accounts.

 

[deducer]

thought this was a treasure site, not a who is right or wrong site.

Yet anyone who is a competent treasure hunter will tell you that the first thing they do is sort the truth from the fiction, separate the wheat from the chaff, and so and on.

You'll note as you have already done so, that anyone who comes in here boasting without posting proof gets shot down pretty quick.

 

[wrmickel1]

what if I was to say that the peralta stones location is relatively closer than you think, and that the priest map guides to both the peralta mines location and to the horse map across the salt river, but the thunder god is close by guarding the ldm... and not near the needle any of you think? When you get there, you will find the Thunder God aka Phoenix, the Chief with the Bear and Turtle. If you go, keep a look out for the Apache Black Legion (black bdu's), that like to crouch and hide in the sun. (I will elaborate on that another time and would explain a lot of things). Now we are tracking the trackers!

John Arizona

As a outsider, I would have to say your full of hot gas and if you and your crew were cactus you'll mostly likely be prickly Pear cactus. And Somero would be a Saguaro cactus with his arms up waiting'

Wrmickel1

 

[somehiker]

JA's been banned Mick.
You lookin for a seat at the same campfire ??

 

[johnmark29020]

Heres a question. Waltzs said the mexican dug two mines. He dug a third. Were they all working the same vein or are there three veins.

 

[somehiker]

I'm not a LDM expert. It's just one of the legends where I follow the debate, since I'm out there for two or three weeks every year anyway.
This being the the case, I am certainly willing to concede wherever it can be shown that I am off track when it comes down to fact or logic.
So, with my suspicion that the pit with the drift or prospect hole below were one mine, and the "rat hole" LDM was another mine altogether, I am theorizing only two gold deposits were worked by Waltz and Weiser.
Are you confusing the "three caches" part of the story johnmark ?
Different veins I think, but only two in locations some distance apart.

 

[johnmark29020]

I'm not a LDM expert. It's just one of the legends where I follow the debate, since I'm out there for two or three weeks every year anyway.
This being the the case, I am certainly willing to concede wherever it can be shown that I am off track when it comes down to fact or logic.
So, with my suspicion that the pit with the drift or prospect hole below were one mine, and the "rat hole" LDM was another mine altogether, I am theorizing only two gold deposits were worked by Waltz and Weiser.
Are you confusing the "three caches" part of the story johnmark ?
Different veins I think, but only two in locations some distance apart.

Im no expert either. In fact I dont even own any of the books. I tried several libraries with no luck. Most of my info comes from here,and the internet. I agree with the two locations. I think peralta gave watzs the location of several mine that still had gold,but the dutchman had the most. Thats why the info seems confusing. Waltzs told them the whole story in hopes to help them find the correct mine. They confused the info into one mine. The pit being one. The mine in the imaginary circle down south near queens creek ,and the third location in between. Walzs made a point of say the mexicans dug two I dug the third. I think these were in close prox to each other. Find the two dug by them and you will find waltzs. Why. Because their mine are mapped. He dug a third,because it wouldnt be on any of the Spanish maps. They will get you in the wright areabut his instuction will show you the right spot. So would all three be following a single vein, or would they each be a separate vein. What do you think.

 

[cactusjumper]

JM,

"Waltzs told them the whole story in hopes to help them find the correct mine. They confused the info into one mine. The pit being one. The mine in the imaginary circle down south near queens creek ,and the third location in between. Walzs made a point of say the mexicans dug two I dug the third."

If you have no books on the subject, can you tell us how your obtained this story?

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[lgadbois]

Kesselring's book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=EzFSAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[johnmark29020]

I spoke incorrectly. I did get the holmes manuscript back in marcj as a gift after leaving the mtn. The rest came from reading tnet post and online articles. Indian legends and one book by robert koshery. There is alot of good info online. IMO everyone had a peace of it,but no one was willing to honestly share info.
The death bed confessions was waltzs attempt to explain how it works. I will admit that most of my theory is based on bits and peaces of things I read here,and online. However it put me in the right area.
Alot of my theory fell apart when I was down there. It all started to come together for me at the main mine site. When I was holding the maps in my hand and looking at them on the ground. You were right all alone. Nothing is better than boots on the ground. Gold or no gold. I could spend the rest of my life there in peace. No place like it.
The mexicans mapped their mines,if waltzs dughos own pit. Itd only reasonable that it wouldnt be on the old maps. With the statement that he made about the mexicans digging two mines . Tells me one of the ldm mines is near two mines that are mapped. The story that peralta gave the mine location to waltzs only makes sense if they were partners. If partners then I assume that peralta would have given the location to all the mines to waltz. I believe that waltzs was supposed to run the mine and secretly send petalta a share. Now why didnt he. I think reavis is the reason. Waltzs was working quitely while trying to avoid cutting reavis in on the deal. Why. Waltz new it was a fraud. Ofcourse this is all opion based on a theory. How much will hold up is to be determined.

 

[cactusjumper]

Kesselring's book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=EzFSAgAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

igadbois,

Does he give a source for that story?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[lgadbois]

Joe,

I'm thinking about buying their books. Robert and Lynda Kesselring are a husband and wife team. The two books they wrote show their references. There are many good photos with the GPS coordinates. I took a look at the Googel preview and it looks pretty good.

 

[cactusjumper]

JM,

Brownie Holmes, I am told, denied writing that manuscript right up to the time of his death. There is little doubt that he did write the information on his family and his personal search for the LDM. I don't believe anything else in the book, especially the stuff about Waltz.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[johnmark29020]

I read his five part article the other day. It makes alot of sense.

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

I'm thinking about buying their books. Robert and Lynda Kesselring are a husband and wife team. The two books they wrote show their references. There are many good photos with the GPS coordinates. I took a look at the Googel preview and it looks pretty good.

Igadbois,

I am, pretty much, done with buying any new books on the LDM, other than Dr. Glover's next two.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[johnmark29020]

JM,

Brownie Holmes, I am told, denied writing that manuscript right up to the time of his death. There is little doubt that he did write the information on his family and his personal search for the LDM. I don't believe anything else in the book, especially the stuff about Waltz.

Good luck,

Joe

I totaly agree. Brownie didnt write.
The person who did write it IMO was there when waltzs died,and had over heard parts of holmes and brownie coversation later in years.
Whom ever wrote it. They were trying to make dick holmes and brownie look bad. If brownie wrote it. The story would have painted dick in a more favorable light.
The writer IMO was trying to set up a cover story in case the mine location was recovered.
There are a couple of places in the book where dick is talking to brownie and the story suddenly stopd or changes dorections. That gave me the impression that the writer was only privileged to hear part of the story. But the cofession part of it hold some weight. If I had read the book and found what I found. I would blame bias on the book.
Since I found the location first. Then the book confirmed my find. Now with with the find of the other site and the skull cave. Its all working itself out. Didnt you get the info I sent you.