The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[Hal Croves]

I'll try and repost a working link later today, when I have more time.

I'll also finish this post later....

Sorry Hal, but I don't own a copy myself.
It was something that came up in a conversation with Jim Hatt early in my own search. And since then I've seen it referenced by others as well. Perhaps someone who does own a copy can scan and post the relevent passage.
While there probably is no way of knowing exactly where Storm got his information, which seemed to up his previous suggestions of 7 Peralta mines,he had been researching, searching, and writing about the LDM for, I assume, at least ten years prior to his writing "Thunder God's Gold". He likely knew of Highham's writings, who I believe was the first scribe to include the Peralta's as part of LDM lore. So far as I recall, it was later expansions of the LDM saga by other authors which brought the Massacre and possible existence of multiple mines, as well as the Gonzales family name into the larger telling.

Gotta head out for work.......

somehiker,
Yes, the number seems to have jumped for Storm at one point.
That is important.
We need to see when the change occurred. We know that it had, to 18 by 1945.

One last thing about your post. What you wrote in red above is simply not correct. Storm, to his credit, was the real DLM hunter/researcher, boots on the ground, deep research. He may have been a little bat-shite-nutty with UFO & Reds, but he lived it and did not need Higham's work.

And if you read Higham's 1946 work, it is clear that he is writing about what was generally known.
"Whether it was one of the Peralta mines can never be established until found".

The Peralta name was attached to this legend long before Higham's first 1946 book. Arnold is an earlier source - 1938/39. And we now know who Arnold was getting his material from.
------------------
Ruth's son also helped with that, confirming to Storm the source of the map Adolph Ruth was using and how it was obtained.

 

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[markmar]

Ellie B

I don't understand your conclusion about the triangle . If you mean the triangle which is under the stone heart below the number 10 , this triangle shows the North , like the other triangle arrow below the heart . The stone heart is an update of the Latin heart and has the same direction NW ( is written in the Latin heart ) . If you draw the trail under the stone heart , you will see how the trail cut the triangle in half and pass from the pit mark to end in the centre . The pit mark near the number 10 , is in the same place with the 17th lugar on the stone heart . There is the last Cross mark with a description to where is the treasure cave .
About to where is the Latin heart , I have written in this thread and in two other . I give an oportunity to those who believes me to find the cave , but the trail like I have decript , has only one man and is the one who has the picture with the last Cross mark .

 

[somehiker]

Too early and not enough coffee I guess. I was thinking of Bicknell when I wrote Higham, but can't find a reference in my files right now to include with this post.
However, I do have this....which seems to indicate a very early link between the LDM and the Peralta "treasure". Don't know the author though, and never got around to looking for a name.

View attachment 1899 Hombre story pg 1.bmp View attachment 1899 Hombre story.bmp

 

[Hal Croves]

Thanks for that. Finally something worth reading.
Have a great night.

 

[somehiker]

Well, it's a fun read.
But I'm not sure it's genuine, so I hadn't paid too much attention to it so far.
Maybe cause it mentions Apache Junction and the Superstition Wilderness....
Back later.

Regards:SH.

 

[deducer]

Reminds me of this version which is a little more bizarre.

 

[Hal Croves]

My list of topics to write about is much smaller now.
Is it alright to ask questions about Storm?

Here is one that I am working on, but it would be great if someone knew the answer and felt like sharing.

"Dr. Erwin C. Ruth
Dear Sir:
On behalf of the National Press Registry of which I am a special Correspondent, I am conducting a private investigation into the unsolved murder of your father.
Barry Storm
10 July, 1937"

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...th/clark/Ruth-Storm Correspondence (1937).pdf

My question. There was no National Press Registry. Only a National Press Club and a registry of members.
Was Storm a member? Anyone?

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie B

I don't understand your conclusion about the triangle . If you mean the triangle which is under the stone heart below the number 10 , this triangle shows the North , like the other triangle arrow below the heart . The stone heart is an update of the Latin heart and has the same direction NW ( is written in the Latin heart ) . If you draw the trail under the stone heart , you will see how the trail cut the triangle in half and pass from the pit mark to end in the centre . The pit mark near the number 10 , is in the same place with the 17th lugar on the stone heart . There is the last Cross mark with a description to where is the treasure cave .
About to where is the Latin heart , I have written in this thread and in two other . I give an oportunity to those who believes me to find the cave , but the trail like I have decript , has only one man and is the one who has the picture with the last Cross mark .

markmar,

I am not one who believes in the Latin Hearts. The theory that I have adapted to begins with the location of the two hearts that can be seen to the northeast from the Gila River when entering the town of Florence heading south from Florence Junction. The third heart is located on the west side of the mountain the two hearts are located on. See attached photograph below.

The first pic contains the two hearts, the 2nd is a pic of the R-rock.

Notice skull on center/right side of photograph looking west. This pic was taken at night with a full moon. Skull always looks directly at treasure. Time and date, sun and moon, you must be at the right spot at the right time. Horse is nearby with dropped reins, stop here, treasure nearby. We haven't scheduled to go after this one yet. Many have tried to find this one, this one of 18. This is where the number 18 had originated, 18 treasures.

Marius, thank you for sharing your theory and beliefs as I do enjoy your input. I have my own road to travel and there is so much to accomplish.

Later,

Ellie B.

 

[somehiker]

markmar,

I am not one who believes in the Latin Hearts. The theory that I have adapted to begins with the location of the two hearts that can be seen to the northeast from the Gila River when entering the town of Florence heading south from Florence Junction. The third heart is located on the west side of the mountain the two hearts are located on. See attached photograph below.

The first pic contains the two hearts, the 2nd is a pic of the R-rock.

View attachment 934228 View attachment 934244Notice skull on center/right side of photograph looking west. This pic was taken at night with a full moon. Skull always looks directly at treasure. Time and date, sun and moon, you must be at the right spot at the right time. Horse is nearby with dropped reins, stop here, treasure nearby. We haven't scheduled to go after this one yet. Many have tried to find this one, this one of 18. This is where the number 18 had originated, 18 treasures.

Marius, thank you for sharing your theory and beliefs as I do enjoy your input. I have my own road to travel and there is so much to accomplish.

Later,

Ellie B.

EB:

I do believe you are some distance off with your location of the left hand photo.
"The theory that I have adapted to begins with the location of the two hearts that can be seen to the northeast from the Gila River when entering the town of Florence heading south from Florence Junction. The third heart is located on the west side of the mountain the two hearts are located on. See attached photograph below. "

That particular ridge (not really much of a mountain) is located well to the east of the Florence, 11.25 miles east of Hwy 79 and 2.5 miles north of the Cochran charcoal kilns. The two "heart scrapings" are on the west side of the ridge, while the three legged horse, the third heart and the seven occupy the eastern side of the same ridge.
More can be found here.....DesertUSA.com/mb3 ? View topic - "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Not sure how this might affect your theory, since "Horse is nearby with dropped reins" , but I would think that these "scrapings", which cannot be seen from anywhere along Hwy 79, or from Florence, are a good place to begin the journey. If you do get out there, perhaps you can add a few more photos to the collection we already have posted.

Regards:SH.

 

[Somero]

Are you asking about the origins of 18 as a symbol of deceit or the source for my calling it that?
I can only offer a source.
The origins I would be guessing at.

Hal, just looking for clarification. Source would be good, nothing wrong with a guess either.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Somehiker,

You can see the two hearts from Hwy 79, the problem being that you have to be in the right place at the right time. The River Bottom Grill is located just north of the Gila River on the east side of the highway. Enter the parking lot to the north of said bar & grill. Trick here is that you must arrive soon after a good desert rain. This task cannot be accomplished until the summer heat has turned the desert brown. The interior of both hearts had been planted with a special variety of Canadian Rye and after the rain the two hearts will turn green as can be.

We had two surveys completed many years ago, one was done by a certified geologist and the other by an archaeologist and botanist (Marcy identified the Canadian Rye). Marcy also based the age of the hearts by the lack of vegetation, primarily the saguaros, those outside of the hearts and those growing within the interior. Determining the age of a saguaro is fairly difficult as there are many factors to consider. After consulting with the geologist, he and Marcy agreed that these two hearts were at least 450 years old at a minimum.

I know this area like the back of my hand and I knew many of the old timers who lived and worked in the area that are now long gone; Frank Lynch who owned the Coke Ovens property at one time and operated a ranch there with his father at the turn of the century. He would talk about the old tram that carried the ore across the river that was taken by wagon to Florence and then on to Tucson. This took place when the Silver Bell and Martinez mines were in full operation. The coke ovens were built by the Scottish Masons around 1860-65. Did you know that they were built with an offset if you were to shoot a heading off of their foundations? Four are dead on and then the fifth one is offset and there was a very important reason why this was done.

There was an old timer who lived in one of Jim Copelands' Coke Ovens, the one that he had turned into a desert getaway. This guy use to work for the Smith Ranch. Just take Box Canyon and head north on Martinez Canyon road. The ranch can be seen on some maps and is all but vanished today. He would often tell me all of these hair raising stories about the past and the legends that were told back then. The "Battleaxe" story was based on an old ancient culture that fought a great battle with another (I have no idea who). The warriors that won the battle had battle axes and hence the name.

We used to stay in the old cabin next to the coke ovens as we had an agreement with the owner. We repaired a door, replaced glass and cleaned the place up. The beds were placed on a shelf up off of the floor and you could easily fit four to six people into the area. I had spent some great nights while working from this place, the trains rolling across the desert made a spooky, eerie moan. The plumbing even worked back then, but you had to haul your water in. It was a lonely, secluded and spiritual place. The area was also very dangerous, rattlesnakes, scorpions, Gila Monsters, cacti and slippery loose rock and the unbearable heat. We almost lost a couple of hands due to lack of water and extreme thirst. I know as I had to rescue a number of them, they never listened to my warnings. Mike even tried sucking water out of a piece of saguaro that he cut out of a fine specimen, his lips swelled up so much that they cracked and bled profusely. It took hours to drive him out of the area as he was screaming in pain and agony because of his having fits due to cramps. I have seen it all my friends; Never hike this desert alone, sooner or later you will be claimed a casualty and become a member of its landscape. Accidents and mistakes can and will happen as human nature is simply just human nature. I often felt uncomfortable in this area, but loved it non the less. The cabin has been ripped apart by drunks and thieves long ago and this angers me every time I think about it. Same can be said for the area around the Silver Bell. After "Moose" the guard was no longer employed there the thieves stole anything and everything, those lowlifes and scum. The treasures have been hidden well and I ain't telling where, at least not yet.

I am off on another rant, the stories I could tell, the memories as if they happened yesterday. By the way, the skull is looking directly at the arrow pointing at the large heart. Many people do not know the area as well as they think, Jim Hatt and Salvadore (my good buddy included), ask him about the meteorite we found. You will laugh your butt off and roll on the the ground with tears like rain falling from your eyes. We had a deal between our attorney, who also represented Phelps Dodge and a Cardinal with the Catholic Church worth millions, they tried to screw us, but we turned the tables on them and screwed them good! I will not mention their greedy names here on this site; besides Fred is dead and the Cardinal? We could care less. The treasures are safe as we gave up our mining claims and had the area withdrawn as "Treasure Trove", the State of Arizona and my family have a deal relating to the troves' disposition. Time and the agreement with the AG's Office will hopefully win the day (you cannot trust anyone my friends, I have had a number of first hand experiences).

I do understand why Bob Brewer (HBB) never gave up any of the larger caches or depositories. Those who have the money and the power will never allow you to raise your child (treasure) in a way that you approve of. Imagine raising your child in the Christian faith until he or she is 10 years old. Your wife (attorney) divorces you and marries a Muslim (Cardinal) and next thing you know your beloved son denounces Christianity and becomes a model Muslim.

Investors invest their money to make money. They put up the money, you loose all control. What investor in his right mind will let you control and spend his money? This is the dilemma that we face and have dealt with for years. If I could find a good investor to work with side by side and to include an arbitrator when we do disagree, then I would be all for moving forward. High costs, delays, permits, archaeologists, tests, attorneys, on and on. Treasure hunting can be a very expensive proposition. There are a great number of opportunities for receiving grants and other ways of earning money. What about the rights to the treasure itself? Our deal with the state is no guarantee that we will receive one red cent. Another point that causes investors to suddenly disappear. Been there done that.

I know where to get the money, just can't stand the men that I would have to deal with. Besides, money is important to all of us and most of us still want our freedom. How much money will it take to purchase yours? Secondly, I do not want these jerks, thieves, politicians, rip-offs, etc. to benefit from my labors. So, I should just hand the treasure over to a bunch of people that I can't stand? No way, not in this lifetime. I will never re-marry, but the right woman could change my mind. I'll just have to wait for that right person with the right attitude to come along and we can get the show on the road.

Also, the 7 seven you are talking about by the third heart is an arrow, not a seven. More photographs from Heart Mountain.

More later,

Ellie B

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Cochran?

 

[Ellie Baba]

pippinwhitepaws,

You are correct. A very interesting past and history.




Have a great day,

Ellie B

 

[cactusjumper]

Elly,

A number of years ago, Greg Davis asked me if I knew the location of a stone ranch house in that area......south of the Gila. The one in your picture was, I believe, the one he was asking about. I believe it was a stage stop. Believe you can still find the foundation.



Hope all is well with you and yours,

Joe

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

that area had flooded back in the late 1980,s...hadn't seen that much water in years...could barely get to Florence from Florence jct.

 

[markmar]

Ellie B

I don't believe how somebody would made a map on a boulder exposed to natural corrosions . These shadows and shapes were different before many years ago .
Just a logical thought .

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hey Joe,

The stone house is just east of the rail trestle; This was also the location of Father Kino's camp, San Fernando The stage depot is located a few miles south and there are a few foundations still there. There is also a natural spring that runs year round, exits right out of a tree stump. A few years ago the area was prone to have a quicksand zone and you had to watch your step as the upper crust looked firm and dry.

I provided a map with the locations of Smith's Ranch and the Stone House. I have a picture of it some where. Just have to find it.




Take care,

Ellie B

 

[themarkd]

Yeah, I would say he was using an idiom or guesstimation and in one of those odd/often coincidences there happens to be 18 on the Stones. I would consider this as a guesstimate, so yes similar to 8 or 18. As for interpreting the 18 on the Stones, that is going to be up to individual interpretation that hopefully matches what the maker was thinking. Could be as simple as tying the Priest Stone to the Trail Stones with the 18 dots along the "trail." I'm curious where does the number 18 meaning deception come from?

I'm jumping in way late and having not read the entire thread but has any one looked into the 8 & 18 and time? Either as clock face "directions" or actual time references?

 

[roadrunner]

@ EB.
Looked up crook. Looked up Rook.
Does not do anything for me.
Lines through old maps through canyons and creeks and places that may not have even had a name back then.
When you want a strong back and arms to dig, or move rocks, lets go.
When you want or need firearms for protection, lets go.

 

[sgtfda]

I've seen tons of rock out that way that look like hearts. Hell at the gold show this weekend I was running dirt from the Porcupine Creek mine (Gold show Alaska) and out pops a heart. Here is a shot of it on Dustin's hat. My wife Angie is a fan of that show so I brought her home Dustin's hat and the rock. Nature loves making hearts!