The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

You are going upstream . The original stone maps are at the museum . All the other are copies /reproductions .
The stone maps were made so big , to avoid someone carrying them from the place they should be applyed . The fact that the stone maps were carried away from their first place , shows how a group of men was involved with this action .
And , why the Trail ,H/P and Latin Heart would had a chance to be depicted in leather , paper , etc. and the stone Crosses maps not ?
IMO , the small grey stone tablets were made after for an easy transportation in the seek of the treasure site .
 

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To some, if it were proven that TT attempted to sell them, that would variably demonstrate evidence that he is the originator of the maps and/or their prototypes,
and by extension their initial and total genesis, i.e. he crafted a sculpture with the purpose of selling to make a profit of some kind.

To others it is possible that he was not the originator of their initial creation, and in some ways participated in the modification of the preexisting
material that he may or may not have actually "discovered" himself.

Here is another angle to consider, which allows for T to have discovered or not discovered anything, allows for T to have participated in the
creation or modification of the artifacts OR to have not participated in the creation/modification of the artifacts.

This alternate angle is: regardless of the possibilities of origins and modifications,
T could have had reason to believe that the source of so much smoke was in fact an authentic fire.
If he believed this, for what ever reason, it might make perfect sense to offer them for sale,
and then refuse to actually sell them.
This bit of information would be, and evidently has been
circulated into public knowledge.

In this way, the offer of sale of an object that he never intend to sell, and actually refused to sell, would work for him in
perpetuity as free word-of-mouth advertising, a witness that he had offered artifacts for sale....
To the interpretation of many, that circulated information would stand as evidence that his explanations are dubious and untrustworthy,
ergo the artifacts are "fake", etc...

A reason he might have engineered this theater ?
That is, believe the information of the stones is valuable,
and then openly appear to want to sell them,
all the while never intending to sell them...

An explanation for that behavior could easily be that he was trying to generate more of the previously mentioned smoke.
Attempting to publicly debunk something that he thought was real, so that he could discourage others searching for what he "knew" was a reality (the fire).
Such misdirection is perhaps similar to the thinking that goes into defacing/destroying monuments and markers in various areas of interest.
The idea would have simply been to dampen interest generally and to misdirect.

IMO

CB
 

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Old,
The stone maps that we see in the museum, aren't they missing markings that are on the originals (smaller stones or the skin maps)?
 

nobodie wrote: "aren't they missing markings that are on the originals (smaller stones or the skin maps)?"

Yes
 

Old,
Thank you. I hope you can answer this, are the 2 stone trail maps just the trail without the markings on either side of the dotted line? Possibly markings that would show the mines and where the gold is buried.
 

Other map(s) show a larger area and more landscape and other locating features. I'm a bad one to ask about mine locations. I probably stand alone in my belief any "mines" shown are secondary and not the primary object of the maps.
 

Old,
Thank you for your time. I can't wait to see the the original maps on the TV show. Are you helping Ryan like a researcher? Any idea approximately when the show will come out? Maybe just a guess.
 

Good morning nobodie,

In a different thread (maybe a this one??, I lose track) I hinted as best I could at the stall in the production. Honestly; its like herding cats to get a "middleman" production company that will step up to the plate and do an honest and thorough job of presenting the story. Emphasis added to the word "honest". They all seem to walk to a different drummer than anything I'm used to.

My involvement, is and was, limited. I don't know the current status. Just guessing; I'd say its on indefinite hold. Pending finding funding and an entity that will do justice to the story.
 

Lynda

Did find Travis few of the lugares ? Were they at about the same distance each other ?
 

Marcus...........

This is speculation on my part, please take it as such........

I don't think Travis found anything using the Stone maps as we know them. I believe the solve of them eluded him. I believe he was working on a new theory just before his death but was too weakened to do much himself. He tried to get his neighbor, who was much younger, to assist with the heavy work. He offered him partnership, and paid expenses in exchange for labor. Unfortunately he died before that could come to fruition. Whether or not he was on to a true solve, I don't know. I do know he was in touch with (IMO) the right group of people to assist with the solve.

I believe he did find stuff at various times, but not with these tools. Just my thoughts.
lyn
 

Lynda

IMO , that group has nothing to do with the known stone maps . The treasure related to the stone maps , is not church's valuable ornaments , but a gold bars cache , which took its name from the church's name that is close by . The " Transeo Ecclesia " ( to the cave ) from the Latin stone heart map validade this .
 

Marius,

This is the crux of the difference between our beliefs.....

You have an abiding faith in the authenticity of the Latin Heart and the Stone Crosses as ancient artifacts. I don't share that. You have every right to hold firm to that. It just doesn't work for me. I have too much stacked up evidence that those "artifacts" are recent additions manufactured to support theories that don't hold water for me.

I know that's blasphemy to many readers here. Its not my intention to start a fight. To each his own......its a merry hunt. Do what works for you. I only mention this so you will understand where I'm coming from.

But in the same vane......be patient with me that the things that I hold onto as truth have no room for the Latin Heart .........It wouldn't fit into the small grey stones. It only fits into what I know to be recently manufactured reproductions.

Best wishes,
lyn
 

Lynda

With all these , I can understand also where you are going to .
 

The Latin Heart

Hello Old,

Perhaps you will bear with me a bit as I examine your position using the assumptions you are making to see if those assumptions take you to where you claim they do.

Your Position, and I could be wrong, feel free to correct me, is that the Latin Heart is a modern creation that fits into the trail maps that Travis created. Your position also posits that the trail maps reflect a true but limited picture of older documents,(maps) and stones. Yet you ignore the obvious point that since the heart insert and the Latin heart when placed in the trail maps make a full use of the space on the maps, the creator of the trail maps was aware of both the Latin Heart and Heart Insert. If it was Travis then the possibility also exists that Travis also made the Latin Heart and it to owes its genuine character to that fact.

And there is circumstantial evidence to support this position. That is as Jim Hatt points out in his work on the Stone Maps, that he received his copy of the Latin heart from Tom Kollerborn and that, "Tom(he) had located one which was in the possession of a friend, whom he did not name, currently living in Texas. Within three days Tom presented me with these copies of the Latin Heart." Page 13, "The Peralta Stone Maps". If this account is true then the only person we know of in Texas who was carving stones was Travis, and Travis was the only one with the original sources.

So there is evidence that Travis did in fact create the Latin Heart. But what if that is not the case? What if the fact is the Trail Maps and inserts are in fact ancient artifacts that were discovered by Travis. There is evidence to support this position also. It seems the story is that Charley Miller found the Latin Heart digging in the place Travis discovered them. This is an important point that will be referenced shortly.

There is a convergence of both positions that is well fascinating. That is the information on the Latin Heart is not modern Latin, it is a Latin that was prevalent about 900 A.D. This in and of itself suggests that if the Latin Heart was discovered it is in fact genuine since Charley Miller was a cowboy and lived in a trailer park, and simply lacked the educational background to create the Latin Heart. This also applies to Travis. He simply lacked the skills to create on his own such an artifact.

The conclusion seems rather obvious. The Latin Heart is a genuine artifact if it was found as the trail maps. It Travis created the Latin Heart it came from information from either the stones or a paper map. Such a conclusion opens the door to a rather radical position. That is Travis proves the Latin Heart is genuine whether he created it or if it was found.

It seems clear that if Travis created the Stone Maps and you folks have access to the Stones and other maps, you have always known the Latin Heart is real. And your lack of thinking fundamentally about that fact has created a road block to further understanding.

It seems also obvious you do not have the total library of information needed to get to the end of trail. To get to that point you need to come to grips
with how Mr. Ribaudo`s solution to the maps in the public view is correct, and how is it possible the trail maps are also a star chart?

Going down that trail raises the question of scope. That is Mr. Ribaudo`s solution reflects a relative significant section of the range. If the trail maps only reflect a small portion of the solution, just how big of an area does the original documents point to? Seems the smaller stones and maps are showing a geographical province of substantial size.

And the question of scope takes you to Al Reser and Sims Ely.

Good luck

Starman
 

Hello Star,

You raise good questions. I'm not going to battle anyone whose leanings take them to a place of comfort with the Latin Heart. As I alluded to; I can't make that leap.

To give the discussion justice would require more than I'm at liberty to say. I know that's offensive and I apologize. That's the peculiar circumstance I get into in broaching this subject. You have a legitimate right and almost an obligation to question me hard. I do know more than I can say. What I know leads me to know these objects weren't sourced together. I'm not asking you to "just trust me". I understand that's asking too much. I'm just explaining I have real issues based on my realities accepting the LH and SCs as part and parcel of the Stone Map set. To me, speaking only as me, the LH and SC's are "me too, let me get in on the action" creations.

A weaker discussion I can make is the one of timing. The timing of find and then the reveal of the LH is "off". To me, its all too convenient and opportunistic. My first thoughts on the subject of the LH were its all too similar to the "appearance" of the 2nd - 30 something Dare Stones in the mystery of the Lost Colony of Roanoke. Somebody with a deep pocket puts out a reward for a 5th stone and they start popping out just like magic. All of a sudden the real and the unreal all get thrown in the same pot. To me, its sad.

If the LH and/or Stone Crosses were in Travis' workshop other folks would have had familiarity with them. Even if they were just passing concepts they would have at least portions portrayed in his sketch books. They are not there. Charlie Miller was no stranger to Travis. If they together had separate pieces of the same puzzle they had ample time and opportunity to put those pieces together during Travis' lifetime. Of that, I can assure you.

lyn
 

Latin heart = legitimate artifacts in the museum.
 

Star,

I'll skirt around the source issue, but having thought more of it over night, there is a part of the discussion where I can bring some light (I think).

Charley Miller is not the real mover and shaker in the LH story. Although he gets the credit or the blame depending on where you stand on the subject, he played a supporting but not starring role. Rhodes Wilson was the star of this show.

Often I take criticism for digging too deep in the weeds. When I study someone I want to know as much as possible about them. Little things that most folks consider irrelevant. Their favorite dog's name and who they took to the prom is relevant information to me. Even the tail number of their airplane can be revealing <g>. I'm weird that way. The reason I collect up all sorts of trivia (and bore folks to tears) is because the theory of 6 degrees of separation is a REAL thing. Often to find the connections you have to know the trivia. That paid off in spades in this saga. There are only 2 degrees of separation between Travis and Rhodes Wilson.

Anytime Travis ended up on the short end of the stick you can bet uncle Robert is involved. Such was the case here. Robert brought Rhodes into the picture and Rhodes brought his partner, Charley, along. Rhodes and Robert were old high school buddies from back in Texas. Rhodes and Travis were the quiet type and Charley and Robert the more extraverted types. Both Charley and Rhodes assisted Travis and were very much associated with his explorations. Both had seen and were very familiar with the Stone Maps. Both were well versed in the "story" of the Florence Junction find of the artifacts. This is fact.

Jumping over into speculation......Travis was a deep personality, the waters under the surface were deep. He was an old soul. I believe he respected Rhodes on many levels not just his mountain knowledge. The age difference was a factor but there was a kindred spirit thing going on there too. Rhodes said little but when he did speak it was important and worth remembering. At least Travis thought so. Travis trusted him and that was a favor bestowed on few.

With all that stage set.............now lets re-read Jim Hatt's recount on the discovery of the LH and take a good long look at the time line that played out. I think you can begin to fill in the holes in the who, when and why. Rhodes Wilson died in (I think) 1971. A full 10 years after Travis. It doesn't surprise me AT ALL that TK went to Texas to recover a "copy" of the Latin Heart sometime post 1971.

As I've said, if your leanings set great stock in the LH, I can certainly understand it. For me, not so much.

If Rhodes Wilson found the LH in the 1949-1950 time frame, then risk life and limb and the pain of arthritis to explore with Travis up until 1958 or so and never shared the LH with him that would be extraordinary. If Charley Miller had a genuine artifact discovered by his long time partner and dashed it to fragments with a hammer that too would be extraordinary. Not impossible, but extraordinary.

Tom K is still available. Ask him who he went to see to retrieve the copy. I got a $1000 bet that says it wasn't the Tumlinson family.

lyn
 

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