The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[lokiblossom]

...and in Addison's excellent history book where is his Templar connection to Oak Island?

There is none, and what is funny is that I never said there was!

Cheers, Loki

 

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[ECS]

There is none, and what is funny is that I never said there was!

What is funny is that you mentioned his book on a thread that is about a "Knights Templar connection to Oak Island".
You never said there was a connection, true, but by inclusion into this discussion, it was tacitly implied.
As an author, you would know that.

 

[ECS]

As an author myself I knew there was a difference...

'nuff said!

 

[lokiblossom]

There you go with your own disinformation. I never wrote that it was a known fact that the Templars visited Ardchattan, it is only my premise, along with a few others.
And I have spent considerable time on the website of Ardchattan (actually there are several websites), Some of my relatives are from that area. Do the Ardchattan historians know exactly what Robert the Bruce discussed there? Or even the exact date, 1308 or 1309? Very little is really known about the early events at Ardchattan! Who would know much about a couple of ships wintering there in 1307-1308?

What i did write, was that many respectable Templar historians say some knights escaped to Scotland. You do realize that although all of Ardchattan is in Scotland, not all of Scotland is Ardchattan?

And yes, it is also well known that many Templars simply joined the Knights of Christ in Portugal. But it is important to note that at the time of their arrest in France the Knights of Christ did not exist and they had no knowledge at the time they would be safe there. No radio or telephones or ect.

I also wrote that "parts unknown" was a given, any problem with that?

Cheers, Loki

This is what I responded with! And then the names of three respected Templar historians.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Loki, you have played "well respected historians" name drop card throughout this thread as if they supported the Knights Templar connection to Oak Island. Too late to reshuffle the deck when all the cards are on the table except for the Joker.

 

[lokiblossom]

Loki, you have played "well respected historians" name drop card throughout this thread as if they supported the Knights Templar connection to Oak Island. Too late to reshuffle the deck when all the cards are on the table except for the Joker.

No, only that some well respected historians support a Templar escape to Scotland. None of them ever mentioned Oak Island or Nova Scotia. It was you who claimed I must have received my premises from some Templar book and insinuated that my named historians were ultimately responsible!

I do use information from those three historians to support the fact that the Knights Templar always (for 200 years) maintained a fairly large fleet of warships, that they used the Port of La Rochelle, were based in Cyprus and in early 1307, following a request from the Pope, sailed a large contingent of vessels back to France from Cyprus, more than likely to their Atlantic port of La Rochelle

This information is important to my own premise, proving that they had the ability to sail to Nova Scotia as well as being better placed at the correct time period than anybody else, to have used and transported the coconut fibre found on Oak Island.

Cheers, Loki

 

[ARC]

IF the island had Templar activity...

IF treasure was buried on the island...

Both are long gone and NO definitive proof of either will ever come to light in our lifetimes.

Perhaps they can DNA a piece of dirt in the hole one day...

and relate it to someone on this thread as a distant relative to a well digger that once lived in Montana and had two kids he took on an island trip vacation.

The chances are about the same as this puzzle being completed.

FOR...

You have to have the pieces to begin with. heh

 

[ECS]

... It was you who claimed I must have received my premises from some Templar book and insinuated that my named historians were ultimately responsible!..

If you say so, Loki, but that is not necessarily true.

 

[Al D]

I do use information from those three historians to support the fact that the Knights Templar always (for 200 years) maintained a fairly large fleet of warships, that they used the Port of La Rochelle, were based in Cyprus
Cheers, Loki

The Templar fleet was never based in Cyprus, actual fact; the Templars owned the island for less than one year before a revolt by the people who lived there caused the Templars to give the island back to King Richard.

 

[lokiblossom]

The Templar fleet was never based in Cyprus, actual fact; the Templars owned the island for less than one year before a revolt by the people who lived there caused the Templars to give the island back to King Richard.

You're talking about when the Templars bought Cyprus from King Richard in 1191 and returned it in 1192, but since 1191 they had always maintained a presence there until their demise in 1307.

One hundred years later in 1291 when Acre fell, Cyprus became the central base for the Templar Order until 1307.

The fact is that the Knights Templar maintained a base on Cyprus for 116 years and it was their central base for the last 16 years.

As for my 200 year comment, that was only meant generally and for the period of which they owned ships.

Cheer, Loki

 

[ECS]

...
I do use information from those three historians to support the fact that the Knights Templar always (for 200 years) maintained a fairly large fleet of warships, that they used the Port of La Rochelle, were based in Cyprus and in early 1307, following a request from the Pope, sailed a large contingent of vessels back to France from Cyprus, more than likely to their Atlantic port of La Rochelle ...

Where is the source of a Templar fleet of "warships"?
The Templars did maintain a fleet of galleys and short distance merchant ships , most were leased or hired , complete with crew.
The only mention of a "lost Templar fleet" came from the Papal torture interrogation testimony of Brother Jean de Chalons:
"The leaders of the Order fled, and he himself met Brother de Villiers leading fifty horses; and he heard it said that he set out to sea with eighteen galleys and that Brother Hugues de Chalons fled with the whole treasure of Brother Hugues de Pairaud"
VATICAN ARCHIVE- REGISTRA AVENIONENSIA 48f450r June 1308
Note that de Chalons stated that "he heard it said", which is NOT an eye witness account, and remember this is the ONLY documented account of 18 galleys (NOT WARSHIPS) setting out to sea with "treasure".
Quasi alternative historians Baigent and Leigh were the first to use this account and expanded this man's tortured testimony to what many now accept as fact that 18 Templar ships escaped from La Rochelle.

 

[ECS]

...
This information is important to my own premise, proving that they had the ability to sail to Nova Scotia as well as being better placed at the correct time period than anybody else, to have used and transported the coconut fibre found on Oak Island.

11th Century Arabian writers mention the use of coconut coir for use in ropes and ships rigging, which was common usage during that period, and that during the Templars activities in Jerusalem, and in later centuries.
With that stated, there is NO documented reference from that period of the Templars gathering, storing, using coconut coir.

 

[Al D]

You're talking about when the Templars bought Cyprus from King Richard in 1191 and returned it in 1192, but since 1191 they had always maintained a presence there until their demise in 1307.

One hundred years later in 1291 when Acre fell, Cyprus became the central base for the Templar Order until 1307.

The fact is that the Knights Templar maintained a base on Cyprus for 116 years and it was their central base for the last 16 years.

As for my 200 year comment, that was only meant generally and for the period of which they owned ships.

Cheer, Loki

Sorry but your wrong, King Richard took the island from the Muslims because they had captured some of his men who got shipwrecked there.
you should study up on your history.

 

[ECS]

...
As for my 200 year comment, that was only meant generally and for the period of which they owned ships.

How many ships did the Knights Templar actually own?
As mentioned several times, the Templars leased and hired short range merchant ships and galleys complete with their crews.

*NOTE* David Hatcher Childress book, PIRATES AND THE LOST TEMPLAR FLEET is another pseudo history posing as history tale based on minimal fact but with over the top assumptions by a quasi historian.
Childress' premise is that the Templars escaped from La Rochelle to Scotland, hooked up with the St Clair (Sinclair) family, who with Scottish Rite Freemasons, created a pirate fleet that waged war on Vatican, Spanish, and Italian ships.
Timelines as well as actual facts are ignored in this voyage to fantasyland.

 

[Al D]

How many ships did the Knights Templar actually own?
As mentioned several times, the Templars leased and hired short range merchant ships and galleys complete with their crews.

You are right, it was the Byzantine Navy that the Templars had a close relationship with, so technically, any ships the Templars used would have been owned and crewed by the Byzantines.

 

[Al D]

No, only that some well respected historians support a Templar escape to Scotland. None of them ever mentioned Oak Island or Nova Scotia. It was you who claimed I must have received my premises from some Templar book and insinuated that my named historians were ultimately responsible!

I do use information from those three historians to support the fact that the Knights Templar always (for 200 years) maintained a fairly large fleet of warships, that they used the Port of La Rochelle, were based in Cyprus and in early 1307, following a request from the Pope, sailed a large contingent of vessels back to France from Cyprus, more than likely to their Atlantic port of La Rochelle

This information is important to my own premise, proving that they had the ability to sail to Nova Scotia as well as being better placed at the correct time period than anybody else, to have used and transported the coconut fibre found on Oak Island.

Cheers, Loki

Do you have any proof that the Templars sailed back to France from Cyprus, or any proof that the fibers were actually Coconut?
it is OK if you don’t answer, since I already know that the proof does not exist.

 

[ECS]

IF the island had Templar activity...IF treasure was buried on the island...

It is these (IFs) that have created a flood of pseudo Templar history books by quasi historian authors that are purchased by the unwary reader of alternative conspiracy fiction presented as fact.
"People mistake this type of history for the real thing...but actually they aren't history, they are a kind of parody of history"
-Robert McCrum, Editor, THE OBSERVER newspaper

 

[lokiblossom]

Do you have any proof that the Templars sailed back to France from Cyprus, or any proof that the fibers were actually Coconut?
it is OK if you don’t answer, since I already know that the proof does not exist.

Yes, there is definite proof the Templars sailed back to France all one has to do is look it up, it is accepted history. Clement V ordered them back to France in late 1306 and de Molay along with 60 knights and their entourage sailed back to France in early 1307.

Yes there is proof the fibres discovered on Oak Island were coconut. There is some question as to how the fibres were gathered, but two of four reports identified them as coconut fibre, one was inconclusive and one identified some fibre as hemp.

Aren't you the one who just wrote that the Templars were only on Cyprus for one year?

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Sorry but your wrong, King Richard took the island from the Muslims because they had captured some of his men who got shipwrecked there.
you should study up on your history.

You are the one that should look into history. I just wrote to you the history of the Templars on Cyprus, it is the real and actual history as written by every respected Templar historian!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Al D]

You are the one that should look into history. I just wrote to you the history of the Templars on Cyprus, it is the real and actual history as written by every respected Templar historian!

Cheers, Loki

And I asked you to prove it