The Knights Templar connection to Oak Island Challenge

[sasquash]

It is known that “the very Rule of the Templar Order commanded the brothers to defend one another”, with a “duty to protect the order; at the cost of [one’s] own life if necessary.” For this reason, the Grand Master Jacques de Molay and a group of dedicated knights stayed behind, to avoid arousing suspicion, thus allowing the majority to escape to safety. “Only 620 Templar personnel are known to have been arrested in France” after the raids of 1307 AD. Historians “estimate that there were over 3,000 Templars” in France at that time, such that “over 2,000 fully armed and equipped Templar brothers, with their entire retinues of squires, servants, horses, baggage trains and camp followers” in fact did escape, and must have boarded the 18 ships that left the port of La Rochelle.

 

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[Charlie P. (NY)]

Well, 18 ships, 2,000 men and 50 horses are going to leave a mark on the terrain wherever they "off ship"

Why a piddly island and not Nova Scotia or mainland Canada?

And anything valuable enough to take would have been needed to feed and equip 2,000 men and 50 horses . . . not something to bury.

 

[lokiblossom]

I also doubt it would lie around for centuries there or on Oak Island. I'd say it was less than a century old.

You must know a lot more about dating than the Lab's that did the C-14 testing!

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Well, 18 ships, 2,000 men and 50 horses are going to leave a mark on the terrain wherever they "off ship"

Why a piddly island and not Nova Scotia or mainland Canada?

And anything valuable enough to take would have been needed to feed and equip 2,000 men and 50 horses . . . not something to bury.

Now Charlie, there you go putting words in my posts. I have always maintained that only a few of those 18 vessels actually crossed the Atlantic.

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

That's right. If you decipher it you'll get Grammy Raparee's secret biscuit recipe.

Prove me wrong.

I can show how I arrived in Nova Scotia with the Shugborough Code, would you care to show me how you arrived at "Grammy Raparee's secret biscuit recipe"? I'll wait!

Did you know that David Tenniers put a Poussin in his painting alluded to in the Shepherdess Parchment?

Cheers, Loki

 

[sasquash]

Well, 18 ships, 2,000 men and 50 horses are going to leave a mark on the terrain wherever they "off ship"

Why a piddly island and not Nova Scotia or mainland Canada?

And anything valuable enough to take would have been needed to feed and equip 2,000 men and 50 horses . . . not something to bury.

They escape but not all to Canada.

 

[ECS]

... Very interesting that Franklin and myself independently put the coded location in Nova Scotia. And my premise also uses the Teniers to locate an exact location near Annapolis Basin.

What is very interesting is that on post #53 on this thread you stated that Franklin was wrong.

 

[ECS]

They escape but not all to Canada.

Scotland was where they escaped, but there exists NO legtimate documented evidence anywhere that states that some escaped to Canada.

 

[lokiblossom]

What is very interesting is that on post #53 on this thread you stated that Franklin was wrong.

I still think he is and I believe he thinks I am wrong, but the point is we both landed in Nova Scotia and very close, this figuring independently of each other.

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Scotland was where they escaped, but there exists NO legtimate documented evidence anywhere that states that some escaped to Canada.

Hmm, interesting thought there, as there is also no documented evidence that they (the Knights Templar) escaped to Scotland! If you do have some I could use it please, LOL!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

... Historians “estimate that there were over 3,000 Templars” in France at that time, such that “over 2,000 fully armed and equipped Templar brothers, with their entire retinues of squires, servants, horses, baggage trains and camp followers” in fact did escape, and must have boarded the 18 ships that left the port of La Rochelle.

Historians "estimate" that 2000 Templar brothers "did escape, and must have" is NOT a very reliable definitive quote of hard documented fact.
Who are these "historians" that Loki and you quote that are counter to the academic main stream facts concerning the Templars?

 

[ECS]

I still think he is and I believe he thinks I am wrong, but the point is we both landed in Nova Scotia and very close, this figuring independently of each other.

When deciphering a "code" with preconceived expectations, the cipher reveals those expectations.
Happens all the time, Loki.
If one believes that the Templars constructed a treasure vault in Bedford county, Virginia, and the Beale Papers ciphers were actually written by long kept Templar secret by the "unknown author", then one's deciphering would result concerning the Templar treasure.

 

[ECS]

As recorded in testimony of the Knight Jean de Châlon, the Templars had advance warning of the impending raid, and arranged a fleet of 18 galley ships to leave La Rochelle port, visibly leaving behind a couple ships to avoid raising suspicions of their escape. This testimony during the trials specified that “Gerard de Villiers, the Paris Preceptor, had escaped with 50 horses and 18 ships.

What is the source of this "recorded testimony" from which you quote?
...and who did the original translation from the Latin for this author who used it as his source?

 

[sasquash]

What is the source of this "recorded testimony" from which you quote?
...and who did the original translation from the Latin for this author who used it as his source?

Item dixit, quod potentes ordinis prescientes istam confusionem fugiunt et ipse obviavit fratri Girardo de Villariis ducenti quinquaginta equos, et audivit dici, quod intravit mare cum XVIII galeis, et frater Hugo de Cabilone fugiit cum tot thesauro fratris Hugonis de Peraudo. Interrogatus, quomodo potuit tandiu istud factum teneri secretum, respondit, quod nullus pro aliqua re erat ausus revelare, nisi papa et rex aperuissent viam, quia, si sciretur in ordine, quod aliquis loqueretur, statim fuisset mortuus.

Heinrich Finke – Papsttum und Untergang des Templerordens

 

[sasquash]

I think that some of them followed the Viking routes to Nova Scotia.

 

[franklin]

What is very interesting is that on post #53 on this thread you stated that Franklin was wrong.

You can live in different cities but you can still live in the same state. Nova Scotia get it.

 

[lokiblossom]

Historians "estimate" that 2000 Templar brothers "did escape, and must have" is NOT a very reliable definitive quote of hard documented fact.
Who are these "historians" that Loki and you quote that are counter to the academic main stream facts concerning the Templars?

How about some of those documented facts of the Templars escaping to Scotland as you mentioned, or was it not a very reliable definitive quote? Actually, the fact is very few of the Templars who escaped France were ever accounted for!

Cheers, Loki

 

[ECS]

Item dixit, quod potentes ordinis prescientes istam confusionem fugiunt et ipse obviavit fratri Girardo de Villariis ducenti quinquaginta equos, et audivit dici, quod intravit mare cum XVIII galeis, et frater Hugo de Cabilone fugiit cum tot thesauro fratris Hugonis de Peraudo. Interrogatus, quomodo potuit tandiu istud factum teneri secretum, respondit, quod nullus pro aliqua re erat ausus revelare, nisi papa et rex aperuissent viam, quia, si sciretur in ordine, quod aliquis loqueretur, statim fuisset mortuus.

Heinrich Finke – Papsttum und Untergang des Templerordens

Henrich Finke (1855-1938) Professor of history at Munster University
Papsttum und Untergang des Templerordens was published in 1907 and discussed the charges brought against the Order by the Church, based on Finke's conclusions and opinion concerning the "forced" confessions of the condemned Knights Templar.
Interesting that you didn't mention "other" crimes that these tortured men confessed that had nothing to do with 18 ships.
Today, Finke is not considered that reliable of a source concerning the Templars.

 

[ECS]

The encoded message on the Shugborough Monument is to be read as degrees and minutes of latitude and Longitude as the letters D and M tell us.
The design of the Monument is a copy of the painting by Poussin mentioned in the Shepherdess Parchment of Rennes le Chateau fame, but cleverly reversed, indicating the figures for the coordinates should also be reversed, very simple, it cannot be decoded because everyone is looking for a more complicated solution...
The letters in the code simply represent the numbers 1 through 26 a code every child knows.

Poussin's "Shepherds in Arcadia" itself holds a clue also as simple. The Shepherd kneeling is pointing his index finger directly at the "R" in Arcadia with a puzzled look on his face. The R should't be there, it should read "In Acadia I".
At the time of the Poussin painting the most talked about subject in France would have been "New France" (Acadia).
Actually a closeup of the Shugborough will indicate the same thing, but the index finger points at the word "in" and very obviously has been broken off while the thumb is on the "R" and is also partly broken off.

Don't get too excited though franklin, all these clues do is take us to Nova Scotia not Oak Island! There is much more...

Most of this information is available in several books, which brings forth the obvious observation that these books are the source of much of the information presented, and created preconceived expectations of what these various alleged "hidden codes and ciphers" solutions would reveal.
If one discovers one believes to be a "hidden code" while involved with the Oak Island/Nova Scotia legends, one will find Oak Island/ Nova Scotia in their "solution".
The same can be stated about the Templars- if one expect to find Templars at Oak Island/Nova Scotia, they will find Templars at Oak Island/Nova Scotia.

 

[Raparee]

I can show how I arrived in Nova Scotia with the Shugborough Code, would you care to show me how you arrived at "Grammy Raparee's secret biscuit recipe"?

I simply did what you did. I crossed my fingers, squinted real hard, and decided that the code said exactly what I wanted it to say.