tayopa, legend or reality ...?

HOLA Ed,

On looking at those photos, they do look similar but are different aren't they? Even the scientific name is different - the Arizona ridge nosed rattler is Crotalus willardi while the Mexican Cascabel is Crotalus simus culminatus so looks can be deceiving! I would not care to mash my bare hand down onto a live example of either one though, not even to test to see which strikes faster or has more potent venom! ;D :D ::) :o
Oroblanco
 

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Pichi Cuate - a tiny poisonous snake less than a foot long? Something akin to a Massassauga rattler or more like a dwarf relative to Coral snakes? I recall your mention of this before amigo but don't know where to look to find a photo of them. What is "Pinche Cuate"? (I have lived a sheltered life, never left the monastery until Mrs Oro stole me away ;D ::) :D)
Oroblanco
 

Variety, Species, Subspecies - no need to cut it that fine in my opinion; I am just happy to know those Cascabels of Mexico don't live in southern Arizona; there are plenty of venomous snakes already! :o ;D
Oroblanco
 

Oroblanco said:
Pichi Cuate - a tiny poisonous snake less than a foot long? Something akin to a Massassauga rattler or more like a dwarf relative to Coral snakes? I recall your mention of this before amigo but don't know where to look to find a photo of them. What is "Pinche Cuate"? (I have lived a sheltered life, never left the monastery until Mrs Oro stole me away ;D ::) :D)
Oroblanco
Click to expand...

Wow, haven't heard of this snake for decades-used to have a newspaper article on it, but I can't find it now. Piccu Coati (sp?) is legendary among some of the New Mexico pueblos, although it has never been observed or identified by herpitologists. The Acomas in particular describe the reptile as pencil-sized with no distinguishing markings. The venom is strong enough to kill a human in minutes. I remember one story of an Acoma man who was being mauled by a Silvertip Grizzly when the bear suddenly dropped dead at his feet. The young man noticed a Piccu Coati on the ground which had apparently bitten the bear during the skirmish. I also remember a quote at the end of the report attributed to the Acomas, "Somehere in the brush, Piccu Coati waits".
 

OHIO Peeps: My first encounter with a Piche cuate was when I was courting my tiger.

It was in the evening, the sun had just set. The sidewalk in front of my intended's house was about 4 ft high, constructed of loose well fitted rocks and paved on top.

As I arrived I noticed this small, light tan, snake about the diameter of a pencil, but perhaps 8- 10 inches long with a pointed tail (?) crawling in the rocks. My first thought, being a nosey character, was to catch it and examine it closely.

Just as my hand was about 2 -3 inches away, I noticed it's head, a typical pit viper's. This signaled a fast NO _ NO, so I left it alone.

Later, talking to my future father in-law, I explained what I had seen. He promptly informed me that if I had caught it, and it had bitten me, I would probably be dead. Hmmm

We have several oddities here in the Herpetology dept. including a true Coral snake that exceeds one meter long.

So they run from perhaps 9 " to approx. 80 ft heheheh

Yes, I have sent reports of them to different Universities, but so far, I haven't received a single response, so I have stopped. While they know that such cannot exist and so ignore me, I simply have observed them and go on my happy way.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Gossamer wrote:
come back after a couple of days... and its all about the snakes
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:o ::) Guilty as charged - I for one am so easily diverted off onto a tangential subject, the only explanation is low intellect (or a highly advanced case of Adult Attention Deficit Disorder, heh heh). ;D :D :wink:
Oroblanco
 

well its been a long day already .. we have spent hours working on the photos of the ladder .. we all in agreement it is in fact a wood ladder with a clay pot in front of it with some kind of pile of white or gold sand or stone placed like some kind of a offering ,, on the large rock to the right of you if you were standing on the top of the ladder , are 10 -12 gold color reflections much like the ones we found in the other caves , yet when we had placed one photo in line with other and flicted back and forth between the two photos we found that the reflections changed with the movement of the sun and new spots show up to the left of the ones on the frist photo.. this says it is some kind of metal ore in the rock it self . the clay pot looks to be about 7-8 inches around and stand about 8 inches tall if stood up right ,that would be our best guess at this piont , on the rock behind you on the right is a white arrow pionting downward ...

we have a few question about what looks like two letters beside the arrow ,and what we debated as dark spots on the clay pot that could be some kind of black art on the sides of the pot , but just not enough detail to defind it one way or another ...

we could defind the suns rays and how they changed from the time of the frist photo to the time of the secound photo .. when debateing the evidence we are postive this is a Ladder and a clay pot . the fact the clay pot is undestrubed makes us beleive this site has not been destrubed ,we agree the clay pot is resting in a area were it would not be effected by wind or wearth ,so IMHO it is been there for a very long time maybe hunders of years , we can not defind what the pile is in front of the clay pot at this piont are best guess is peas size ore or some kind of heavy small stone .. we guess gold ore because of the weight stoping the wind from blowing the pile away over time ....

we are not the world's best pro's but this is what we can tell from what we have ...

we were able to use the size of the clay pot a judge the size of the ladder top and use this to scale the area around the ladder we beleive this ladder is no less then 14ft and no more then 30ft tall...dont ask ,i wont tell you any way ...lol .. thats what we know so far ...

has anyone found a clay pot with a offering like this at the top of a ladder before....?
 

we did agree on one thing ... if when i go back the clay pot is not there ,then we have a lot of questions to ask our selfs before we get to close to this ladder site .....lol
 

Blindbowman wrote:
if when i go back the clay pot is not there
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HOLA mi amigo - if the clay pot turns up MISSING it could simply be that someone else happened across it and removed it, or that nature has hidden it. Of course it is probably illegal to remove the pot under the Antiquities Act etc but an innocent passer-by might be unaware it is illegal to remove ancient Amerindian artifacts. There are several possible explanations if the pot goes missing amigo, and since it has been discussed here in public it is quite possible that someone reading our discussion might go to the site and remove it or already has. We never know just who/whom is reading our words after all.
Oroblanco
 

i have spent close to 5 months and thousands of hours working on these photos and i just found it ...lol i dont think 500 people could find it ...out there ...with a photos ....

we question if this is a Kiva ladders ... if so this could be a undistrubed secerd Kiva ...
 

Any chance it is this as seen from a distance?

ladder.jpg
 

Paul,

I went ahead and did the negative to the picture and things do show up better.
An awesome ladder sign.

Thom
 

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in reality that maybe worth something ... where was that drawing found .. it could tell us how tall the ladder s if they were the same ladder i did count 11 steps on that ladder and i did say the ladder we found could be between 14ft and 30 ft tall...
 

Other than the fact that it's in the Superstitions, I'm not at liberty to say where.
 

Cubfan - just wanted to say I love your photo of the petroglyph, pretty neat! Thanks for sharing it!
Oroblanco
 

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