That was really cool Cubfan, thank you for sharing. Cool job on the negative look too!
Janiece
Janiece
tayopa, legend or reality ...?
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Cubfan64
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You're welcome for the photo, but it's not mine. I have a reasonably big collection of photos of petroglyphs taken out there - very few of them done by me. I don't actually recall right now who took this one, but I do know it's from inside the Superstitions. Generally these days it's not a good idea to give out locations of things like this - especially not on an open forum - there are too many folks looking to make a buck who would have no qualms about going out there and trying to chisel or blast some of them out of the rock to sell. There's also the question of artifacts which may be located nearby, and we all know there are still LOTS of pot hunters illegally digging things up to sell as well.
This shot popped into my head right away when I read the description of the ladder and assorted items around it - I figured if it took that long to identify from a series of photographs from a distance, it couldn't be dismissed as a possibility that this may be what is on the photos. Note there is yellow/gold moss near the bottom and from a distance, some of the rock discoloration could be mistaken to be a vessel of some kind at the bottom as well.
I just thought it might be worth investigating in person up close before concluding that the yellow/gold colors are due to gold ore, that the "vessel" is an old clay pot 7-8" around that hasn't been touched for many years, etc...
This shot popped into my head right away when I read the description of the ladder and assorted items around it - I figured if it took that long to identify from a series of photographs from a distance, it couldn't be dismissed as a possibility that this may be what is on the photos. Note there is yellow/gold moss near the bottom and from a distance, some of the rock discoloration could be mistaken to be a vessel of some kind at the bottom as well.
I just thought it might be worth investigating in person up close before concluding that the yellow/gold colors are due to gold ore, that the "vessel" is an old clay pot 7-8" around that hasn't been touched for many years, etc...
Stryker_FO
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There is a similar petroglyph in the Sierra Anchas above Roosevelt maybe related since its only about 75 miles or less straight line distance away.
cactusjumper
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Paul and Stryker,
I don't believe Kiva ladders are all that unusual in petroglyphs.
They could however also be associated with a treasure location. Alin Tree Horvaka had such stories. As for the Apache guarding them, that seems unlikely unless it is also a sacred location. Should you locate such a place in or around the Superstitions, and find a crystal skull inside, it would be a good idea to gift it to the Apache. That could very well be what the spirit is guarding.
This skull might go back as far as the Mayan civilization.
Paul's picture location is not that big of a secret, as far as i know.
Joe Ribaudo
I don't believe Kiva ladders are all that unusual in petroglyphs.
They could however also be associated with a treasure location. Alin Tree Horvaka had such stories. As for the Apache guarding them, that seems unlikely unless it is also a sacred location. Should you locate such a place in or around the Superstitions, and find a crystal skull inside, it would be a good idea to gift it to the Apache. That could very well be what the spirit is guarding.
This skull might go back as far as the Mayan civilization.
Paul's picture location is not that big of a secret, as far as i know.
Joe Ribaudo
Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp
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HI PEEPS: Side thingie, the Spanish used a ladder marking to indicate the presence of a mine.
Dobie's map shows one exactly where we know that there is a metal door with a huge padalock. We were after this when my friend had hs fatal heart attack. It has been postponed until June or July of this year.
Don Jose La Mancha
,
Dobie's map shows one exactly where we know that there is a metal door with a huge padalock. We were after this when my friend had hs fatal heart attack. It has been postponed until June or July of this year.
Don Jose La Mancha
,
the blindbowman
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cactusjumper said:
thats good to know i have a lizard king and a ladder at site 4 ...Cj i did not find any stories about Alin Tree Horvaka ....
cactusjumper
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bb,
"thats good to know i have a lizard king and a ladder at site 4 ...Cj i did not find any stories about Alin Tree Horvaka ...."
You see, my friend, the Internet does have limitations.
Joe Ribaudo
"thats good to know i have a lizard king and a ladder at site 4 ...Cj i did not find any stories about Alin Tree Horvaka ...."
You see, my friend, the Internet does have limitations.
Joe Ribaudo
the blindbowman
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time for a cup of life ...LoL
Oroblanco
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Blindbowman wrote:
Hmm - well you must know the legend of Devil's Tower and Bear Butte right? Wrong state though. Up north there is the legend of 'brother bear' but again this is way far from the Superstitions. There are many legends involving bears amigo, can you be just a wee bit more specific? The Bear Paw symbol is an important Amerindian sign used in pictograms too - and is a popular motif design on southwestern jewelry, like this:
The bear is the protector and symbolizes physical strength and leadership. Bear Paw: The paw is a symbol of direction and power. Does this help amigo? It might help if you could add a little more detail beyond a bear showing a paw, but this has meaning by itself. Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco
Hmm - well you must know the legend of Devil's Tower and Bear Butte right? Wrong state though. Up north there is the legend of 'brother bear' but again this is way far from the Superstitions. There are many legends involving bears amigo, can you be just a wee bit more specific? The Bear Paw symbol is an important Amerindian sign used in pictograms too - and is a popular motif design on southwestern jewelry, like this:
The bear is the protector and symbolizes physical strength and leadership. Bear Paw: The paw is a symbol of direction and power. Does this help amigo? It might help if you could add a little more detail beyond a bear showing a paw, but this has meaning by itself. Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco
cactusjumper
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bb,
There are times when I believe I was born knowing the stories of the Apache, at other times I realize I know nothing.
There are a number of Apache legends which include a bear raising his paw to an Apache Warrior. One is of the "Twin Kings", in which case the paw would be bloody. The story is long, so I will not tell it here.
Let's see just how good your computer skills are. I certainly hope they are better than your skill at photography, which is really nonexistent.
Find this Apache medicine man's song:
"Awaken all you night spirits! Awaken and hear my song. I call upon the Water Spirit to hear my prayer, for I am Jhuna Ta-Ta Che, Medicine Chief of the Sand People, son of a desert mother and blood descendant of the Wind Dancer who was promised a share from the abundance of the waters. Hear me, Great One! My family is in need of food. Grant me the miracle of life and allow us the presence of your children. In return mine will honor you always."
If you find the song, you may find the story of the "Twin Kings".
Joe Ribaudo
There are times when I believe I was born knowing the stories of the Apache, at other times I realize I know nothing.
There are a number of Apache legends which include a bear raising his paw to an Apache Warrior. One is of the "Twin Kings", in which case the paw would be bloody. The story is long, so I will not tell it here.
Let's see just how good your computer skills are. I certainly hope they are better than your skill at photography, which is really nonexistent.
Find this Apache medicine man's song:
"Awaken all you night spirits! Awaken and hear my song. I call upon the Water Spirit to hear my prayer, for I am Jhuna Ta-Ta Che, Medicine Chief of the Sand People, son of a desert mother and blood descendant of the Wind Dancer who was promised a share from the abundance of the waters. Hear me, Great One! My family is in need of food. Grant me the miracle of life and allow us the presence of your children. In return mine will honor you always."
If you find the song, you may find the story of the "Twin Kings".
Joe Ribaudo
the blindbowman
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the legend of chicomoztoc as i under stand it , gave brith to many tribes , thus their shaman made their tribaable markings here at chicomoztoc . the bear is shown laying down at rest ,yet he shows his Paw ,to show true power never rest it awaits us all...
if we are to reach out and try to under stand what it is ...
my spirit walks in to this cave only to be in AW of these thunder gods ...even the the gold bars in cave 3 have no value next to this art . the souls of the tribes are here ... secerd is a under statement !
if we are to reach out and try to under stand what it is ...
my spirit walks in to this cave only to be in AW of these thunder gods ...even the the gold bars in cave 3 have no value next to this art . the souls of the tribes are here ... secerd is a under statement !
the blindbowman
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maybe another time i will seek the kings but it makes me chant and i cant stop unless i force my self to..... lol
Oroblanco
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The Lion? No, just found the bear, with the help of Mrs Oro. Are you sure that is a man-made symbol in that photo and positive that it cannot be a natural effect? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco
Oroblanco
Oroblanco
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What about the SMILEY FACE? Did you find that?
the blindbowman
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you tell me ...how many caves ar there ...?
Oroblanco
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In the Superstitions? I don't know exactly how many there are, but would bet there are a dozen. Or do you mean how many in Chicomoztoc? Seven right?
That is one strange photo amigo - the more you look at it the more things your eye can pick out. Isn't that odd? What type of stone is that anyway, rhyolite? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco
That is one strange photo amigo - the more you look at it the more things your eye can pick out. Isn't that odd? What type of stone is that anyway, rhyolite? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco
Oroblanco
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PS that whole bear is there too, if you look at it slightly differently.
Oroblanco
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Are you certain this is NOT a natural effect? What they call a "geofact" in some circles? To my eye it has a very natural look, which is why you can make out so many different things in it - in fact if you turn the photo you can see different images, including a deer, a camel, a hogs head etc. What do you think? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco
Oroblanco
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