Swamp Gold

[Bigcypresshunter]

Yes,there are records.
CSA Capt Francis A Hendry was also a cattleman and a member of Munnerlyn's Battalion at Fort Meade,and the cow calvarys were disbanded May 20,1865,a little over a month after Richmond fell,April 2,1865.
This is interesting-Col F A Hendry led a survey party into the Everglades,Oct 15,1883 for the US government.
An article in the NEW YORK TIMES dated Sept 14,1883 states:
"When the centre of the Everglades is reached a camp will be established for two weeks,and surveying parties will be sent out..."
A camp in the Everglades by a former CSA officer-part of the legend?
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com~crackerbarrel/William3.html
Other sites about the cow cavalry,history,roster,& deserters:
History
Company B, Second Florida Cavalry
Tories Of The Lower Peace River Valley

He also has an entire county named after him. Most of the treasure books place the gold either in Hendry County or far west Broward. The Indian Reservations are in Hendry County and far western Broward County also.

Hendry County is beautiful and teeming with wildlife. Must of it is Upland Pines (pic) interspersed with wide Sloughs and Cypress Strands. Most of it is still private lands/cattle country or reservation. Its absolutely beautiful country that many Floridians are just now discovering.

 

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[ECS]

Did you find any records of... March/April of 1864 when Fort Meade was captured? ...

This site will give you the history of the CSA Cow Cavalry,their actions,skirmishes with Crane and Green.At the end an extensive bibliography is provided,including contemporary journals of those that lived these events.
Rebuttal

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

This site will give you the history of the CSA Cow Cavalry,their actions,skirmishes with Crane and Green.At the end an extensive bibliography is provided,including contemporary journals of those that lived these events.
Rebuttal

I guess this is our man Pvt Lanier that buried the gold in March. But was he alone?

"On April 7, 1864, the Confederates skirmished with the enemy as they crossed Bowlegs Creek in a “brief but determined battle.”[SIZE=-2]13[/SIZE] There were two Confederate casualties from John T. Lesley’s Company in this clash. Henry Prine was wounded, and James Lanier, Sr. was killed."

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks for the links ECS. Interesting Florida history.

 

[ECS]

This is a link to a store in Jacksonville that sells Civil War items.The site has great photos of Confederate currency,bonds,weapons,uniforms,relics,etc.The prices can be scary.
Uncle Davey's Americana Civil War Antiques & Collectibles

 

[Jon Phillips]

Jon,it is always good to read your imput and the history you provide.
James McKay Sr of Tampa served as the Commissary Agent of Florida's 5th CSA Military District,and it that capacity,McKay Sr was never captured.
Jr servered under Munnerlyn at Fort Meade as Capt and Quartermaster,so he was more than just a "cow catcher".

Thanks ECS.

I didn't mean to imply that McKay Jr. was just a "Cow Catcher"...that's why I added the "cowboy/soldier". He enlisted in 1861-1862, then was back home by Sept. 24, 1863 for the first cattle drive from Fort Meade. The cattlemen's exemption was repealed on February 17, 1864. I think this action caused a lot of the local men who were "on the fence" by being exempt from service, to now join the Federal troops and avoid being conscripted into the Confederate army. Things were obviously going bad for the Confederacy at that point, and I think a lot of them wanted to "back the right horse". There were a few soldiers that fought for both sides in Florida. The situation in Florida was just as confusing as any border state....just not as bloody as some.

McKay Jr. was very involved in regular army activity between Fort Meade and Tampa, and even came to the aid Tampa during one of the Union attacks, and temporary occupations. It didn't amount to much, other than a temporary standoff, until the Union forces left. His unit was also involved in coastal patrols, saltworks protection, and searching for men eligible for conscription...which caused some hard feelings, and loyalty shifts, but his primary responsibility was cattle production.

He seemed to cause more problems after the war as a "regulator".

I wanted to point out that McKay Sr. was known more as a blockade runner, and politician than a "in the field" military commander, even though he and his son were officers, so I don't know if the "paymaster pursued by U.S. forces" part of the legend applied to them very well.

On a side note....The McKay business of cattle shipments to Cuba, was just under way when the war broke out, and was on hold until after the war....And he was at odds with both sides at different times during the war, and if they were smuggling cattle out with the cotton shipments...they definitely would have a reason to hide any payment received....from BOTH sides. If all they were supposed to bring back was medicine, foodstuffs, rum, weapons, and ammunition, I think a sack of gold would lead to a treason charge, and a rope around the neck from either side catching you! Good enough reason to ditch it if anyone was approaching you....

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks ECS.

I didn't mean to imply that McKay Jr. was just a "Cow Catcher"...that's why I added the "cowboy/soldier". He enlisted in 1861-1862, then was back home by Sept. 24, 1863 for the first cattle drive from Fort Meade. The cattlemen's exemption was repealed on February 17, 1864. I think this action caused a lot of the local men who were "on the fence" by being exempt from service, to now join the Federal troops and avoid being conscripted into the Confederate army. Things were obviously going bad for the Confederacy at that point, and I think a lot of them wanted to "back the right horse". There were a few soldiers that fought for both sides in Florida. The situation in Florida was just as confusing as any border state....just not as bloody as some.

McKay Jr. was very involved in regular army activity between Fort Meade and Tampa, and even came to the aid Tampa during one of the Union attacks, and temporary occupations. It didn't amount to much, other than a temporary standoff, until the Union forces left. His unit was also involved in coastal patrols, saltworks protection, and searching for men eligible for conscription...which caused some hard feelings, and loyalty shifts, but his primary responsibility was cattle production.

He seemed to cause more problems after the war as a "regulator".

I wanted to point out that McKay Sr. was known more as a blockade runner, and politician than a "in the field" military commander, even though he and his son were officers, so I don't know if the "paymaster pursued by U.S. forces" part of the legend applied to them very well.

On a side note....The McKay business of cattle shipments to Cuba, was just under way when the war broke out, and was on hold until after the war....And he was at odds with both sides at different times during the war, and if they were smuggling cattle out with the cotton shipments...they definitely would have a reason to hide any payment received....from BOTH sides. If all they were supposed to bring back was medicine, foodstuffs, rum, weapons, and ammunition, I think a sack of gold would lead to a treason charge, and a rope around the neck from either side catching you! Good enough reason to ditch it if anyone was approaching you....

I like your post Jon Phillips so Im repeating it so it wont get lost in the future. I have a feeling that Pvt Lanier was not alone when he buried the gold.

 

[ECS]

Confederate paymasters rarely carried large amounts of gold,and all paymasters had to send requests to Richmond for money.Richmond sent Confederate paper currency to the field for troop payments.The Confederate pay period was every two months,but some did not see payment for 4 or 8 months,and some not at all.
Incidently,the Union printed counterfiet Confederate currency to devalue its worth.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/pay.htm
Gold in the American Civil War

 

[ECS]

This is a collection of interesting letters from US 2nd Lt Calvin Shedd,Co A 7th Regt NH Vol,who served at Fort Jefferson and Fort Marion(Castillo de San Marcos)in Florida during the Civil War.Shedd,it seems was sick most of the time,did not the heat,mosquitos,fleas,food,etc,but detailed events and life during 1861-65 in Confederate Florida from a yankee view.
Well worth the read.
The Calvin Shedd Papers
Another interesting read are the captured letters of M Whit Smith,a CSA paymaster with the 3rd Florida Vol Army.
Smith details the retaking of a CSA blockade runner ship at Cedar Key,and he sends a letter to CSA Col Thomas J Pasteur of Silver Springs,Marion County,Florida.In the 1950&60's,I attended school in Ocala, with several of Pasteur's decendants,and was fortunate to hear the old Civil War stories of Marion County.
One son of Thomas J Pasteur,Marion Pasteur,ran cattle and in 1904 opened MARION HARDWARE CO in Ocala.MHC sold everything from screws to wagon parts,lumbering supplies for the cypress logging operations on the Oklawaha River,dynamite,firearms and ammo.Also there was an off site lumber yard,with its own RR Spur,a block from the Union Station.
In the early "70's,I worked in sales at the lumber yard,and another company bought out the operation,and decided to tear down the old warehouses that straddled the RR spur,and sell all the old items in a yard sale.What a treasure trove of past those warehouses contained!Wagon wheels,yokes,bars of babbit,wooden boxes of anti-Borax Compound dated 1902,canthooks and handles,and items I have no idea what they were used for.Next to an old anvil,I found Marion Pasteur's "M" branding iron,which I still have.
CHS: Civl War Manuscripts Project: Sherman W. Adams

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Civil War era pirate schooner scow found in 4 feet of water in the mangroves off Cape Coral. Sunken pirate ship discovery a treasure for Cape Coral



Historic Wooden Sailing Shipwreck Civil War blockade runner British Schooner Scow Director captured and scuttled by the USS Rosalie, September 30, 1863 at Terracia Creek and the Sanibel River (now named the Caloosahatchee). The ship was scuttled unfit to be sold at Key West Prize Court. Discovered by David P Carr, Cpa, CFP(R) May 05, 2013.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Copy and Paste to keep from losing it.


Sunken pirate ship discovery a treasure for Cape Coral
Published: Jul 30, 2013 6:05 PM EDT
Updated: Jul 30, 2013 6:39 PM EDT

34 3 0 7




CAPE CORAL, Fla. - What lies below the surface? A Cape Coral man believes he found a sunken pirate ship 150 years old! And what's even better, is that you don't have to be a diver to see it, because the wreck sits in only four feet of water.

Although there's no pirate's gold, the ship itself could be a treasure trove for Cape Coral. The shipwreck sits about 500 yards away from Cape Harbour. White poles surround it, to protect it from boats.

David Carr, a history buff, and certified public accountant, was celebrating his birthday weekend in May, when he stumbled upon perhaps the best birthday present.

"It was so uncovered I could actually see the ship beams and everything else, the bowsprit, the mast," Carr said. It's a buried treasure in the form of a shipwreck nestled among the mangroves.

"It is my belief that the keel is turned upside down making sort of a coffin lid for the sides of the wreck," Carr said.
Carr thinks this a 150 year old British Civil War era pirate ship. "A schooner scow is what I believe we have here," he said. He believes it was captured in the area and stripped of its sails and goods.


"The local timeline here that was filled out by the state of Florida says the USS Rosalie caught it. Which was an ex-pirate ship. So here's a pirate ship..catching a pirate ship."

State archaeologists visited the site in June, and are calling it, for now, "Carr's Cape Coral Barge Site."

This is considered a state historical site and could eventually become a federal one. "I'm kind of doing a national plea for records of this area," said Carr.

Tropics & Paradise at Cape Harbour is one of many businesses hoping this pirate ship strikes gold in the form of tourism dollars.

"Especially once it's open to the public as an attraction, I think it's going to bring a lot of people down here its going to benefit all the shops," said shop owner Zuzana Kohen.

If you want to learn more about the ship, visit David Carr's website at News

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Copy and Paste:

"Civil War blockade runner named DIRECTOR a British Schooner Scow, Captured and scuttled at Carr's Cove September 30, 1863 by Acting Master Peter F. Coffin USS ROSALIE. Referred to in Union logs as a Pirate Ship caring Salt and Rum. Other accounts report another incharge and The Gem of Seas as the captor. Mysteries abound even in a story that is accountable in federal union logs." http://www.davidpcarr.com/news/sample_news_item


"This ship is equivalent in size to a man of war that was commissioned in US Navy up until 1920's. Being over 100 feet in length and a beam of near 24 feet, this ship would have awesome sight to see in its day. If not a Civil War wreck then this could be a Spanish American War transport.

For three hundred years before the Civil War these were the famous pirate waters of the Gulf Coast of Florida.

This wreck sets at the intersection of five Caloosa Indian waterways. The Pirates and Caloosa Indians traded for over 300 hundreds of years. These ships were well known in Europe and were used in the founding and settlement of America in great numbers."

 

[ECS]

A good post,BCH.Most CSA blockade runners carried goods,as mentioned in the article,it was rare for them to carry payrolls,large amounts of gold and silver,because of the chance of being captues or sunk by gunboats of the Union blockade.

 

[sabre15]

I have just completed reading this entire thread, I started to re-read it about a week ago. I am a firefighter in Marion County and I live in Apollo Beach. I have been following this post a little after it started. I left TN for a while and came back after a little less than a year. Its amazing how this has grown and become a very educational thread. Some of the bickering earlier on between a handful of guys made it difficult to read at times. I have always had my own opinion on the Swamp Gold Idea and I still feel strongly after studying much of the available information found by a few savvy researchers on this thread. I would love to meet up with you and discuss this more in the future, I would like to help you find FT. Harrell, I was just down in the everglades this past weekend. I am younger than most of you and love the outdoors, I have experience in the outdoors more than most and my previous occupation developed it. With my current FF job I am available more than most people and can handle my expenses. I am friends with Pete(Salvor6), I believe he may be interested in helping out, especially with fall/winter coming and we will need to work on land as the water gets cold. I would like to add this, I have served with many hero's of this great country and all of them believed in this one trait that our founding fathers guaranteed us: FREEDOM. Good friends have died for this right, the fact that we provide this freedom and our government tramples all over our constitution makes me sick. For those that obey the treasure laws in Florida, and for anywhere else in the US please understand this. Other than private land, We the People own this land, not the government, I hate how much control we have given to this Federal beast. I am not alone in this thinking, there are many out there, civilians and those that are still serving that have seen this and want to change this from the inside. Please don't stand on the sidelines anymore, get involved in some way. Contact your representative, senator, local state whatever. Its amazing how many people are on this site, yet complain about the restrictions placed on this profession. I am sorry to rant and go on a tangent, I just love my country and hate seeing it turned into something it was never meant to be and knowing good people died for the ideology our founding fathers once had.

 

[vor]

I have just completed reading this entire thread...

Quite an accomplishment on the long read. On the political comments, don't think much will change unfortunately.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have just completed reading this entire thread, I started to re-read it about a week ago. I am a firefighter in Marion County and I live in Apollo Beach. I have been following this post a little after it started. I left TN for a while and came back after a little less than a year. Its amazing how this has grown and become a very educational thread. Some of the bickering earlier on between a handful of guys made it difficult to read at times. I have always had my own opinion on the Swamp Gold Idea and I still feel strongly after studying much of the available information found by a few savvy researchers on this thread. I would love to meet up with you and discuss this more in the future, I would like to help you find FT. Harrell, I was just down in the everglades this past weekend. I am younger than most of you and love the outdoors, I have experience in the outdoors more than most and my previous occupation developed it. With my current FF job I am available more than most people and can handle my expenses. I am friends with Pete(Salvor6), I believe he may be interested in helping out, especially with fall/winter coming and we will need to work on land as the water gets cold. I would like to add this, I have served with many hero's of this great country and all of them believed in this one trait that our founding fathers guaranteed us: FREEDOM. Good friends have died for this right, the fact that we provide this freedom and our government tramples all over our constitution makes me sick. For those that obey the treasure laws in Florida, and for anywhere else in the US please understand this. Other than private land, We the People own this land, not the government, I hate how much control we have given to this Federal beast. I am not alone in this thinking, there are many out there, civilians and those that are still serving that have seen this and want to change this from the inside. Please don't stand on the sidelines anymore, get involved in some way. Contact your representative, senator, local state whatever. Its amazing how many people are on this site, yet complain about the restrictions placed on this profession. I am sorry to rant and go on a tangent, I just love my country and hate seeing it turned into something it was never meant to be and knowing good people died for the ideology our founding fathers once had.

Hello Sabre15. I remember you. HRU? I took the liberty to copy and paste some of the posts by Mindspark from your thread to mine because I didnt want to lose it. As far as the bickering, I have asked some members to remove the parts that have no value but I was unsuccessful. I apologize for my part in the bickering. I think the only solution is to have the entire thread rewritten and shortened. Reading it all is quite an accomplishment lol as I have not done it myself.

Im afraid treasure hunting is over in the state of Florida, particularly South Florida, but I am more interested in solving history's mysteries. Im not looking for fame or fortune. I just love history and I love exploring the swamp. I love exploring the unknown wilderness and there is so little left in the USA.

I have good information on Fort Harrel. I recently spoke with an eye witness that discovered (completely by accident) the rock wall 30 plus years ago.. But he has not been successful in finding it again. An off road vehicle would be needed to travel the first 7 miles and from there a person could set up a legal primitive (tent) base camp and walk from there. The area is remote, very swampy and access is limited. But I do not have a legal off road vehicle at this time. Of course if we discover the lost fort, we need to turn the information over to the NPS for preservation and protection. Nonetheless, I would love to find it for them and for all Americans.




James D. Elderkin, 4th U.S. Infantry describes the swamp:

'I am inclined to think if our boys who were engaged in the recent little affair with Spain could taste a bit of our Florida experience they would think their recent war experience was quite a pleasant picnic in comparison. Let it be remembered, at that early day, Florida was, for the most part, a howling wilderness, and indescribable in its wild yet horrible and beautiful grandure. For the most part, it was a succession of swamps, ridges, lagoons and low hills, called hummocks. The timber land, except for a trail here and there, was an impenetrable jungle. Especially was this the case in the swamps, where the mighty cypress often from four to five feet in diameter, raised its giant head high above the dense and tangled thorn-clad vine and shrubbery beneath, as if its mighty foliage was not enough to shut out the sunlight, each limb being hung heavy with Spanish moss, shutting out every ray of light, bringing the gloom of night over a trail beset with thorns, rattlesnakes and deadly moccasins gliding over your feet and ready to strike if trod upon.
Not only this, but every leaf seemed to bear some poisonous insect as dangerous as the serpents under foot, and still more dangerous than all the rest, the cunning redskins had slowly retreated before the United States army; for this war had been going on for years, and they had penetrated the jungles deep, and here and there cleared the hummocks of timber and built themselves comfortable homes from the bark of the cypress tree; and they defended those homes with that fury that only men driven to desperation can do. Concealing themselves under the dense foliage, covered with Spanish moss, they were undiscernable until they revealed their position by a rifle shot. This, of course, was often too late for some poor comrade who was pushing his way determindly through the tangle, and with death lurking on every hand. Wherever there had chanced to be a clearing of some daring settler's once happy home, now nothing remained but blackened ruins, a standing chimney or, perchance, here and there an orange grove, laden with fruit, as it peeped above the tangled underbrush, seemingly arising to strangle every relic of civilized man.
The night was made hideous by the howl of wolves, the scream of the panther, the bull-like bellow of the alligator and the dismal cry of the loon, interspersed here and there by the sweet notes of the whippoorwill, or the song of the American nightingale, that most beautiful of all songsters, the mocking bird. (The mocking bird often sings in the night.)
All of these sounds, whether dismal or sweet, were heeded with the greatest precaution, as it might be real or might be the signal of a wily savage to his cohorts to join in an onslaught that would end in a massacre or death-struggle of extermination for one side or the other.
Wherever clearings were found, or the higher ground lessened the density of the foliage, the graceful magnolia spread her beautiful branches of velvet leaves and magnificent blossoms, which ladened the air with perfume so sweet and heavy that it could be scented miles away; and high among the branches carroled the sweetest songsters man ever heard as they flitted from limb to limb under the glorious sunlight overhead, as if to emphasize to man that a glowing picture of hell and heaven might exist on earth before his very eyes.
The above is a weak attempt to describe the awful grandeur of Florida in those terrible times of savage warfare.
It was in 1841 we went to Florida, where we remained for one year. Of all my experience of hardships in three wars that which I experienced in Florida was the worst.'

http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/docs/s/semwar02.htm

 

[GMD52]

BCH,

Good to see you back, and hope your summer turned out good. I too have become more interested in the history of events, and the discovery of the actions and reactions of the participants. My home is situated on the shores of Lake Champlain and surrounded with the sites of the French and Indian wars, and the Revolution......events that happened in my front yard centuries ago, are long forgotten, and ignored....most of the younger people aren't even taught the events that happened within sight from their classroom...sad. Gary

 

[sabre15]

Good to hear from you BCH, we have to meet up sometime and plan a trip out to the swamp. I am glad you are back and hope you are well.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I am currently living and working in the swamp adjacent to the Miccosuki Reservation. You may have heard that I am not permitted to stay on my own land. I can get a WIFI signal at Tippy's (Indian store). I will send you a PM.

Speaking of our founding fathers, I just finished reading a book on George Mason given to me by my father before he died. He was my direct ancestor (GGG....Grandfather) and I obtained many old papers, family tree lines and documents from my Dad and it will take time to piece it together.. George Mason was very instrumental in our American Revolution and creating the Bill of Rights. I guess I was born in the wrong century lol.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I am currently living and working in the swamp adjacent to the Miccosuki Reservation. You may have heard that I am not permitted to stay on my own land. I can get a WIFI signal at Tippy's (Indian store). I will send you a PM.

Speaking of our founding fathers, I just finished reading a book on George Mason given to me by my father before he died. He was my direct ancestor (GGG....Grandfather) and I obtained many old papers, family tree lines and documents from my Dad and it will take time to piece it together.. George Mason was very instrumental in our American Revolution and creating the Bill of Rights. I guess I was born in the wrong century lol.

SAR! (Like DAR)...