Swamp Gold

[Bigcypresshunter]

I just want to clarify that even if the 1000 pounds is completely made up, I still want to know what information came from the Historical Society that would lead to such an exaggeration. Does that make any sense?

It just doesnt seem like the cattle gold event fits this event/story. Its not even the same year. Cattle or the CSA Cow Cavalry are never mentioned.

 

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[ECS]

It could have been based on Breckinridge's stopover in Miami,as recorded by Rose Wagner.
FIU.EDU has many Civil War diaries in its digital collections,both Union and Confederate.
The answer may be in there.
As for Don Petit,I did not say he made it up,but rather included the local lore tale as a "Puff & Fluff" to enhance his human interest story,as was the norm for those times.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It could have been based on Breckinridge's stopover in Miami,as recorded by Rose Wagner.
FIU.EDU has many Civil War diaries in its digital collections,both Union and Confederate.
The answer may be in there.
As for Don Petit,I did not say he made it up,but rather included the local lore tale as a "Puff & Fluff" to enhance his human interest story,as was the norm for those times.

Ill edit out the words "made up" and change it to "beefed" up.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It could have been based on Breckinridge's stopover in Miami,as recorded by Rose Wagner.
FIU.EDU has many Civil War diaries in its digital collections,both Union and Confederate.
The answer may be in there.
.

That sounds like a more likely possibility.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The news article says the gold came from Fort Knox, Kentucky in 1865. Could there be any possible truth to this?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

A brief history of Fort Knox area during the Civil War http://www.hardinkyhistory.org/historyofFTKNOX.pdf

American soldiers occupied the Fort Knox area as early as the Civil War.In 1862, the 9th Michigan Infantry constructed fortifications and bridges north ofthe present reservation boundaries. Fort Hill, overlooking the town of West Point,was the site of one of these positions. Units of both the Union and ConfederateArmies operated in this area during the Civil War. Union troops under thecommand of General Don Carlos Buell and General William Tecumseh Shermanoccupied the hills overlooking the Ohio River. The brilliant Confederate cavalryleader from Lexington, John Hunt Morgan, raided the area with the 2nd KentuckyCavalry in 1862, capturing several hundred federal troops. At present dayBrandenburg in Meade County, west of Fort Knox, Morgan crossed his troops over the Ohio River for his famous raid into Indiana and Ohio.

​

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It also says the gold vault didnt open until 1937. Surely they must have known this in 1946-49. Or could it be that they just didnt know? It kinda makes the entire story seem suspect.

Also, in 1936, the U.S. Treasury Department began construction of what isnow another enduring symbol of Fort Knox, the U.S. Bullion Depository. TheGold Vault was first opened in January 1937, and was just receiving its first​

shipments of the nation's gold reserves

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The Fort Knox part of this story doesnt fit.

The law that created the United States Mint in 1792 specified that America's coins were to be made of gold, silver, and copper, so gold coins have been part of our currency since the earliest days of the United States Mint. Before then, gold was stored where it was needed: at Philadelphia and, later, the other United States Mint facilities where coins were made.

A stack of gold bars.

In 1933, gold was taken out of circulation. President Roosevelt decreed that no one was allowed to own gold. Exceptions were made for jewelry, dentistry, tools and coin collecting. This national wealth needed a storehouse where it could be kept safely, and the idea of a national bullion depository was born. In 1936, a special depository was built in Fort Knox to safeguard large quantities of gold for the United States for commerce and strategic reasons

Maybe we are looking for a fort with a similar name. I dunno. Its tough separating fact from fiction.

 

[ECS]

It also says the gold vault didnt open until 1937. Surely they must have known this in 1946-49. Or could it be that they just didnt know? It kinda makes the entire story seem suspect.

I had addressed this in an earleir post on this thread.Let us look at this version from a historical point of view,and see how this version evolved.
The Union did occupy Ft Knox during the Civil War,but is was not a gold depository until 1937.
CSA Gen John H Morgan and his cavalry did make raids in that area,and on June 8,1864 raided Mount Sterling,Kentucky,and looted the banks of $140,000 in gold,silver,bank notes,and other currency.It was not shipped to Fort Meade or the Everglades.The Fort Knox mention places this lore from after 1937.
By that time,the Union was successful in cutting off supply lines and trasportation in the South,most ports were blocked by the Union Blockade,and Sherman divided the South with his scorched earth march through Georgia.Remember the railroads at that time did not connect with each other due to different gauges and different owners and routes,so how would the CSA move 1/2 ton of gold through occupied lines from Kentucky to Florida?
It has been mentioned that a 1/2 ton of gold could fit into a cooler.Maybe it could if it were a solid block.How could it be lifted and loaded if that were so?Bars of bullion were placed in wooded crates that could be handled by 2 men,coins most of the time in wooden kegs.So the size of this shipment would larger than a cooler due to its weight.
CSA Capt James McKay was the CSA COMMISSARY AGENT at Fort Meade,and was in charge of all transactions concerning shipping and recieving,payments,etc,and kept good records that still exist in various archives.There is no mention of recieving a 1/2 gold shipment from anywhere or anyone.Fort Meade is located north of the Everglades,and Punta Rassa would have been the logical destination,not going accross the Everglades.
When looking at the historical facts,that version does not pass the test of validity,but makes for a good tale of lore that has become a legend.

 

[ECS]

... Its tough separating fact from fiction.

As with the aforementioned incident of the USS SAGAMORE and the ABBEY BEE.The Union Sagamore was decommissioned 7 months in Philadelphia before this alleged incident took place.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I have news articles from several different cities in the US and it might be interesting to look at the differences. I dont think they all mention Fort Knox. By comparing the differences may help tell us/me determine what parts are embellished or beefed up by the writers.

Your points are valid. I just want to mention something because you keep saying it. Nobody (BDDs treasure book may have)) ever said that they were moving gold across the Everglades. History tells us the "Oxen Lady" crossed Shark Valley herself moving moonshine in the dry season but nobody ever suggested that the Confederates crossed or were attempting to cross Shark Valley, the center of the Everglades.

The NW Everglades are high pinelands cut with wide marsh sloughs and interspersed cypress strands. Certainly a detachment could easily move a wagon in this area in March along existing trails and the US Army certainly moved wagonloads of supplies to the forts during the Seminole Wars and records support this...

However the Fort Knox part appears to be an embellishment and it makes the entire article suspect. However its possible that part of the story is based on truth and the writer beefed up the story (like you suggested) by adding reference to Fort Knox.

Well we know that at least one cache of gold is buried in the glades, Im just trying to find another for BDDs benefit and because it just doesnt seem like the news story has any connection to cattle gold. As far as Fort Meade, wasnt it either burned, captured or abandoned at the suggested time? I cant remember but I researched it.

If I had time, I would check all the different newspapers articles and note the differences because the story was probably in every newspaper in the country.. This would be an interesting experiment.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

As with the aforementioned incident of the USS SAGAMORE and the ABBEY BEE.The Union Sagamore was decommissioned 7 months in Philadelphia before this alleged incident took place.

Its possible the date of the incident is wrong. Often these legends/stories have some basis of fact but times/dates/places/events have been changed/beefed up over the years..

Its just like your reference to Fort Harrel being on New River in Pinecrest. Pinecrest is nowhere near New River but the fact that Fort Harrel resides on or near New River is very true but the Pinecrest part is clearly false. So my comment seperating fact from fiction is hard to do where you may have fact and fiction in the same sentence!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

CSA Capt James McKay was the CSA COMMISSARY AGENT at Fort Meade,and was in charge of all transactions concerning shipping and recieving,payments,etc,and kept good records that still exist in various archives.There is no mention of recieving a 1/2 gold shipment from anywhere or anyone.Fort Meade is located north of the Everglades,and Punta Rassa would have been the logical destination,not going accross the Everglades.
When looking at the historical facts,that version does not pass the test of validity,but makes for a good tale of lore that has become a legend.

A quick search reveals that Fort Meade was destroyed by Union forces and local citizens on May 19, 1864. Interesting read. http://blog.peacerivervalleyflorida.com/2011/04/battle-of-bowlegs-creek-fort-meade.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is the map from the above link of Fort Meade. Note the Whidden family residence. Remember it was a member of the Whidden family that I interviewed. Remember you found an interesting mention of several Whidden soldiers in the Cow Cavalry? He also gave me some notes that I have stashed away somewhere and I was intending to share (with due respect to the family..)

Interesting note here about the time of the buried gold.

In his book Fort Meade, Florida, Canter Brown explains that “on February 17, 1864, the Confederate Congress drastically revised its conscription law, eliminating the draft exemptions for cattleman” who were supplying food to the area. Furthermore, “The change unleashed squads of conscription agents determined to force all suddenly eligible ‘cow hunters’ into confederate service, and many individuals were forced to choose sides.”

My research now is a mess. Im basically in the collecting information stage. But believe me, Im saving it all and someday Im going to rewrite this entire thread.. ...and your help ECS is greatly appreciated.

 

[ECS]

Its possible the date of the incident is wrong. Often these legends/stories have some basis of fact but times/dates/places/events have been changed/beefed up over the years... seperating fact from fiction is hard to do where you may have fact and fiction in the same sentence!

That is the problem with most treasure stories based on lore.A single actual fact,name,or incident may be mentioned in the tale,but then fiction takes over and provides the bulk of the story,and many times the amount of the "lost treasure" is exaggerated to the extreme to make it more interesting.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Interesting read here leading up to the Confederates retreating into the Everglades. Historic Peace River Valley, Florida: Battle of Bowlegs Creek: Fort Meade, Florida, April 7, 1864 Green must have had intelligence on the cattle gold. The dates match very well. It would be interesting to piece a day to day dateline together. I just dont have the time.

On February 22 1864, Fort Meade residents William McCullough, William McClenithan, and State House representative James D Green arrived at Fort Myers. The men informed Union officer Captain Henry A. Crane of the Confederate’s “great loss of provisions” and their desperate need of cattle and supplies at Fort Meade. Henry A. Crane was so satisfied with this intelligence that he appointed William McCullough and James Green as lieutenants for this splendid information and on March 13, 1864, Captain Henry A. Crane dispatched thirty troops under Green to seize the Confederate supplies and gather recruits at Fort Meade. By March 20th, Green’s detachment had increased to about fifty men (mostly Confederate deserters) and marched for Willoughby Tillis’ homestead south of Fort Meade, confiscating, horses, mules, and slaves. Consequently, Green’s detachment moved on to Confederate Thomas Underhill’s home killing him with two gunfire shots. Green’s troops seized corn, meat, contraband (slaves), and firearms before returning to Fort Myers

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

More interesting read from 1864 I discovered and posted it way back. It wont hurt to reread it to get a feel for the chaotic events in March of 1864. The Union Soldiers consisting of a Colored Regiment captured a thousand head of cattle. It mentions a squad of 30 men pursuing the Confederates. Evidently there was plenty of cattle to be sold in March of 1864. Not only did the cattle have to be smuggled out but the gold had to be hidden. You would think there would be plenty of places to hide gold in the swamp and there was. The problem being to remenber where it was buried and living long enough to retrieve it!

 

[ECS]

Here is the map from the above link of Fort Meade. Note the Whidden family residence. Remember it was a member of the Whidden family that I interviewed. Remember you found an interesting mention of several Whidden soldiers in the Cow Cavalry?...

"John L Whidden known as Cutthroat John and his brother William Whidden with another man did desert the company at Fort Meade when the company was ordered to the Big Cypress" CSA Capt John T Lesley,Fort Meade (NOTE:It was Lesley,at Gamble Plantation, who aided CSA Sec of State Judah Benjamin in his escape to the Bahamas.)
"The detachment sent to Fort Meade in my last had a fight with the rebs and drove them from the place Thuesday last,destroying all their stores complete and killing a leading guerilla Lanier and rounding out several theres with horses and without any loss whatever"-Union Capt Henry A Crane,US Fort Meyers,April 13,1864.
US Capt Crane also posted death warrants for members of the Cow Calvary and the cracker cowmen,including Jacob Summerlin.Crane used the Confederate deserter and former neighbor of the people of Fort Meade,US Lt James D Green as a raider and looter in a "scorched earth" policy.Many of Green's detachment were also CSA deserters,who knew the homesteaders they were attacking,and what valuables they may possess,and they kept the spoils of their raids.
There is a possibility that these homesteaders may had buried their valuables before Green's destroy and burn raids,and cache's may still be in the ground.
Thanks for posting the map.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I became interested in the Confederate gold legend back in the 1960s, I learned to use a computer in 2004 and I created this thread back in 2005 for research purposes, not to encourage anyone to go out digging in the Everglades. I understand this is a treasure site and I might be giving the wrong impression to some readers. I myself may have been a bit naive in the beginning when I started this quest and Floridas Isolated Finds Laws have changed.

Here is an informative link from FPAN Florida Public Archaeology Network. Florida Public Archaeology Network - Frequently Asked Questions

If someone happens to find an artifact on State land or wishes to metal detect in Florida, here are some laws on metal detecting. It may be illegal just to have a metal detector in your possession on Federal land. Native Indians have their own laws. I hope this information will save someone from embarrassment or worse.

Take care. And thanks everyone for all the help and I appreciate all the interest. I love Florida history and I never tire in my quest for knowlege.

 

[releventchair]

Thanks for your candor B.C.H..I was never under the impression you would encourage any thing illegal.Even if you had, as with most others who look for anything, code of ethics requires me to know the law(s) regarding where i hunt let alone dig, and to acquire permission where required. As should common sense.However I would sit and daydream out in the swamp a little. Not for long though lest i get pinched by something worse than past history l.o.l..As far as gold,the swamps worth more than anything that could be hauled out of it to me.Mystery of what happened where plenty good enough reason for you to start a thread.