Swamp Gold

[Bigcypresshunter]

The swamp is a beautiful place and we are lucky to have so much of it, in South Florida, preserved, in which I am grateful. Along with preservation we lose some recreational activities. Its really a small price to pay.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[Rebel - KGC]

The swamp is a beautiful place and we are lucky to have so much of it, in South Florida, preserved, in which I am grateful. Along with preservation we lose some recreational activities. Its really a small price to pay.

AGREE with you BOTH!

 

[ECS]

DO DARK CLOUD MOUNTAINS OVER THE EVERGLADES HAVE A SILVER LINING?

Lost Confederate gold tales appear in several states,but most are just that,tales.
On this thread,many versions of the swamp gold story have been discussed and anayzed,and upon inspection of historical facts and events,they all fall short.
Examples include the Fort Knox to Fort Meade journey through the battleworn occupied South or the transporting of 1/2 ton of gold accross the Everglades to ship to England "near the end of the war".
The only Confederates during that time were either the "Cow Calvary" and those stationed at Fort Meade.Yes,they sold cattle for Spanish and Cuban gold,but no shipment ever amounted to a half ton of gold.
Those readers of this thread who have followed the research and read the posted links can discern the origin of this legend from various actual events that occured.
Yes,it is nice to believe that a vast cache of Confederate gold is waiting to be found in the swamp,but belief is not fact.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Lost Confederate gold tales appear in several states,but most are just that,tales.
On this thread,many versions of the swamp gold story have been discussed and anayzed,and upon inspection of historical facts and events,they all fall short.
Examples include the Fort Knox to Fort Meade journey through the battleworn occupied South or the transporting of 1/2 ton of gold accross the Everglades to ship to England "near the end of the war".
The only Confederates during that time were either the "Cow Calvary" and those stationed at Fort Meade.Yes,they sold cattle for Spanish and Cuban gold,but no shipment ever amounted to a half ton of gold.
Those readers of this thread who have followed the research and read the posted links can discern the origin of this legend from various actual events that occured.
Yes,it is nice to believe that a vast cache of Confederate gold is waiting to be found in the swamp,but belief is not fact.

PARTS of what you "say" is true; it may well have been that SOME of the CSA Treasury, GOLD, weapons WERE "deposited" in areas of the "Swamp" prior to departure of REBELS to Brazil in South America... as Confederados & families.
They then established SEVERAL communities in South American locations, and even today, a SPANISH-speaking Sons of Confederate Veterans exists. This SCV group sponsors all kinds of "old South" events; was even a group of Ex-Rebs in conclaves in Mexico City... across the "line", etc. & they LATER, became desperados (must be all the Clint Eastwood movies or something...).

 

[ECS]

Most departed After the War to South America,in the early days of Reconstruction.
On such Confederado was CSA Dr G G Mathews,along with other families went to Brazil 15 years after Reconstruction.He later returned to Marion County Florida and formed the community of Santos(now gone except for markers),named for his home in Brazil.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Lost Confederate gold tales appear in several states,but most are just that,tales.
On this thread,many versions of the swamp gold story have been discussed and anayzed,and upon inspection of historical facts and events,they all fall short.

Not all. $12,000 in Spanish gold (cattle payment) possibly smuggled in by Capt Riley, buried by the Confederates (CSA Pvt Lanier)at a hammock or hump near the junction of 2 creeks in March 1864 is very true and could easily be worth $200,000 at todays prices so I wish you would clarify when you say they all fall short.

I am not searching, I am not digging, I am not encouraging anyone else to dig in the Everglades but I am trying to keep the record straight. Someone reading your above reply might think that this entire research thread came up empty. I agree any mention of Fort Knox is an embellishment and 1/2 ton is most likely an exagerration but every tale does NOT mention Fort Knox or 1/2 ton.. Go back to page one. I seem to remember the original legend being $200,000.

Those readers of this thread who have followed the research and read the posted links can discern the origin of this legend from various actual events that occured.
Yes,it is nice to believe that a vast cache of Confederate gold is waiting to be found in the swamp,but belief is not fact.

It is fact ECS. This thread has indeed proven that at least one cache of Confederate gold was buried somewhere within the Everglades region. (Somewhere south of the Caloosahatchee (River). The resale value of these Spanish and Cuban gold coins on todays collector market could surpass a million dollars.

The amount or monetary value really doesnt matter because nobody is ever going to find it. There is just not enough information to pin down a location and the possibility exists that it was retreived by a Confederate deserter or accidentally found during latter day construction and never reported.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Just for the record, I went back to 2005...back to my original post.

Swamp Gold

Anyone know anything about the supposedly "well documented" lost payroll in the Florida Everglades? ?Near the end of the Civil War, a Confederate paymaster being pursued by Union troops buried a million-dollar payroll in gold and paper currency. Records reveal he wrote: "Chased by the enemy, we buried our payroll at a point in the Everglades at a junction of two creeks, where the land rises like a camel's back. The money is buried in the west hump of the rise." He was captured, but never found the $200,000 in gold or the paper money.
​

Throw out the words "paymaster" and "payroll" and the rest of the tale is true. It doesnt fall short at all. There very easily could have been some paper money involved. Actually how do we know there wasnt a paymaster in the Confederate detachment?


The thread has been a complete success IMO and I am content. This legend will be told for another hundred years and reference will be made to this thread. . Success is not always judged by the amount of holes dug.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

HRU Don Jose de La Mancha? (Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp) Been a long time.

 

[ECS]

Not all. $12,000 in Spanish gold (cattle payment) possibly smuggled in by Capt Riley, buried by the Confederates (CSA Pvt Lanier)at a hammock or hump near the junction of 2 creeks in March 1864 is very true and could easily be worth $200,000 at todays prices so I wish you would clarify when you say they all fall short.

I am not searching, I am not digging, I am not encouraging anyone else to dig in the Everglades but I am trying to keep the record straight. Someone reading your above reply might think that this entire research thread came up empty...




It is fact ECS. This thread has indeed proven that at least one cache of Confederate gold was buried somewhere within the Everglades region. (Somewhere south of the Caloosahatchee (River). The resale value of these Spanish and Cuban gold coins on todays collector market could surpass a million dollars.

The amount or monetary value really doesnt matter because nobody is ever going to find it. There is just not enough information to pin down a location and the possibility exists that it was retreived by a Confederate deserter or accidentally found during latter day construction and never reported.

My above post is confirming the research of the Pvt Lanier incident,as well as the flight of Benjamin and Breckinridge,and the Cow Calvary and Summerlin's acceptance of Spanish and Cuban gold as possible "root sources" of the Everglades swamp gold legend,ie,actual events that through the telling over time,grew into the story that then expanded in the 1940's on to the 1960's in treasure books and magazines.I thought I made that point clear and evident.
As mentioned in earlier posts,the only "CSA Paymaster" in that area during the time of events,was CSA Capt James McKay of Fort Meade.In his duty as CSA COMMISSARY AGENT FOR SOUTH FLORIDA he was in charge of all payroll,cattle payments,and the purchase of supplies.
In your post #1529 you have a quote attributed to a "Confederate paymaster",that asserts he was caught.
From "records" did this quote originate?For the record,McKay was never captured,and I doubt that the Confederacy would have two paymasters in South Florida.That version is very similar to the Steinhatchee River legend of a CSA paymaster and $200,000 of gold,another morph of the story in a different location.

 

[ECS]

The thread has been a complete success IMO and I am content. This legend will be told for another hundred years and reference will be made to this thread. . Success is not always judged by the amount of holes dug.

BCH,I agree.This thread contains sound research with links,names,dates,and events that transend the tales and speculation that surround this legend.

 

[Jon Phillips]

My above post is confirming the research of the Pvt Lanier incident,as well as the flight of Benjamin and Breckinridge,and the Cow Calvary and Summerlin's acceptance of Spanish and Cuban gold as possible "root sources" of the Everglades swamp gold legend,ie,actual events that through the telling over time,grew into the story that then expanded in the 1940's on to the 1960's in treasure books and magazines.I thought I made that point clear and evident.
As mentioned in earlier posts,the only "CSA Paymaster" in that area during the time of events,was CSA Capt James McKay of Fort Meade.In his duty as CSA COMMISSARY AGENT FOR SOUTH FLORIDA he was in charge of all payroll,cattle payments,and the purchase of supplies.
In your post #1529 you have a quote attributed to a "Confederate paymaster",that asserts he was caught.
From "records" did this quote originate?For the record,McKay was never captured,and I doubt that the Confederacy would have two paymasters in South Florida.That version is very similar to the Steinhatchee River legend of a CSA paymaster and $200,000 of gold,another morph of the story in a different location.

James McKay Sr. was mayor of Tampa in 1860...and was mostly considered a Tampa resident during the war. He played both sides during the war, and found himself at odds with both sides at different times. He was dealing with old friends in Union Key West, and had a boat confiscated by Confederates on his return, and later burned when it was ordered returned to him. He was indeed captured by Union forces on Oct. 14, 1861, but not carrying gold at Ft. Meade...but aboard his blockade runner, the Salvor....where contraband, including guns and ammunition, was found. The ship was seized and later sold as a prize. He was held by Union forces for about 7 months.

I think you guys should read: "Tampa in Civil War and Reconstruction" by Canter Brown Jr.... It covers all these guys that are tied to this story during the time it was supposed to have occurred....In fact...I think the next logical step would be to contact Mr. Brown, and see if he has heard anything of this story. I think there is no better source for information on central Florida before, during, and after the Civil War, than Canter Brown Jr.

James McKay Jr. was a cow catcher, and often deployed in the Ft. Meade area...mostly to keep an eye on his fathers cattle interests...but I don't think he was the paymaster...just another cowboy/soldier.


I think something that might shoot a hole in the cattle gold payment story is this excerpt from the above mentioned book:


Page 63.


"Naturally, James McKay led all others when it came to slipping through the blockade. From summer 1862 until October 1863 he passed unharmed through six voyages to Cuba. McKay's steamer Salvor having been sold for prize money by its navy captors, the captain used the Scottish Chief. As was true of most of the other blockade runners, he carried cotton as his cargo (the legislation had outlawed cattle exportation). Bringing back medicines, rum, foodstuffs, and other supplies, McKay and his fellow runners relieved in at least a small measure the deprivation endured by the region's frontier settlers."


So....no cattle or gold from early in the war, until about late 1865, after the war, according to this source (which I trust wholeheartedly).


Canter Brown Jr.'s other books on Ft. Meade go into great detail about pre, and post, Civil War cattle for gold business, and the fighting at Fort Meade, and Fort Myers, including the carelessness with which the gold was sometimes handled during the cattle trades boom after the war.

 

[Jon Phillips]

If we re-read this thread by ECS, it is easy to see how two separate events, can morph into a treasure legend....

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/florida/295597-30-them-were-lost-caloosahatchee.html


Although the two incidents actually happened...the story put them together to form a scenario where something valuable might have been found at the location where the crated rifles never were....While the location of the 50 rifles that actually were lost was never mentioned...and the "possibility" that they were packed in grease, and still somehow preserved was added...then presto! Instant treasure lore!

But...in that example....the story was full of accurate details that were applied in a very inaccurate manner....we just need to see what part of the Confederate "swamp gold" story is true...and what is embellishment.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My above post is confirming the research of the Pvt Lanier incident,as well as the flight of Benjamin and Breckinridge,and the Cow Calvary and Summerlin's acceptance of Spanish and Cuban gold as possible "root sources" of the Everglades swamp gold legend,ie,actual events that through the telling over time,grew into the story that then expanded in the 1940's on to the 1960's in treasure books and magazines.I thought I made that point clear and evident.
on.

No, I felt you did not make that point clear and evident to readers that may only be reading this last page when you said they "all fall short" (referring to the treasure book legends). But its cool. The quote from a treasure magazine in my very first post did not fall short and is pretty much dead on and it was your research that proved it.. It really couldnt be more dead on.

I think maybe what you may have wanted to imply is that they "all fall short" (of a half a ton)?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

As mentioned in earlier posts,the only "CSA Paymaster" in that area during the time of events,was CSA Capt James McKay of Fort Meade.In his duty as CSA COMMISSARY AGENT FOR SOUTH FLORIDA he was in charge of all payroll,cattle payments,and the purchase of supplies.
In your post #1529 you have a quote attributed to a "Confederate paymaster",that asserts he was caught.
From "records" did this quote originate?For the record,McKay was never captured,and I doubt that the Confederacy would have two paymasters in South Florida.That version is very similar to the Steinhatchee River legend of a CSA paymaster and $200,000 of gold,another morph of the story in a different location.

I dont remember where the captured version came from ECS but it was a treasure book and I wouldnt waste any time on it. In the beginning all my information came from treasure books. Its probably just another of many variations, although many members of the Cow Cavalry were indeed captured in March of 1864.


Toss out the paymaster part and the rest is eerily dead on after being told for 100 years. I doubt anyone would expect the treasure legend to match any closer to the facts than this one.

As for the other versions, I wouldnt worry too much about them. We found what we were looking for.


The 1/2 ton is most likely another variation. None of your records or ancestry sites mention it and I have no problem conceding that and I said the mention of Fort Knox made the entire 1949 newsclip suspect. For the record I agree the 1/2 ton has never been found in any records as of yet and the Lanier cache falls short (of a 1/2 T). I think the newsclips are the only place a 1/2 ton was mentioned on this thread besides BDD. Just dont throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

You may not see me posting here much anymore. Ill check from time to time if any new information surfaces. The Everglades area is protected. Im moving on. Thanks for all for the help.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

James McKay Sr. was mayor of Tampa in 1860...and was mostly considered a Tampa resident during the war. He played both sides during the war, and found himself at odds with both sides at different times. He was dealing with old friends in Union Key West, and had a boat confiscated by Confederates on his return, and later burned when it was ordered returned to him. He was indeed captured by Union forces on Oct. 14, 1861, but not carrying gold at Ft. Meade...but aboard his blockade runner, the Salvor....where contraband, including guns and ammunition, was found. The ship was seized and later sold as a prize. He was held by Union forces for about 7 months.

I think you guys should read: "Tampa in Civil War and Reconstruction" by Canter Brown Jr.... It covers all these guys that are tied to this story during the time it was supposed to have occurred....In fact...I think the next logical step would be to contact Mr. Brown, and see if he has heard anything of this story. I think there is no better source for information on central Florida before, during, and after the Civil War, than Canter Brown Jr.

James McKay Jr. was a cow catcher, and often deployed in the Ft. Meade area...mostly to keep an eye on his fathers cattle interests...but I don't think he was the paymaster...just another cowboy/soldier.


I think something that might shoot a hole in the cattle gold payment story is this excerpt from the above mentioned book:


Page 63.


"Naturally, James McKay led all others when it came to slipping through the blockade. From summer 1862 until October 1863 he passed unharmed through six voyages to Cuba. McKay's steamer Salvor having been sold for prize money by its navy captors, the captain used the Scottish Chief. As was true of most of the other blockade runners, he carried cotton as his cargo (the legislation had outlawed cattle exportation). Bringing back medicines, rum, foodstuffs, and other supplies, McKay and his fellow runners relieved in at least a small measure the deprivation endured by the region's frontier settlers."


So....no cattle or gold from early in the war, until about late 1865, after the war, according to this source (which I trust wholeheartedly).


Canter Brown Jr.'s other books on Ft. Meade go into great detail about pre, and post, Civil War cattle for gold business, and the fighting at Fort Meade, and Fort Myers, including the carelessness with which the gold was sometimes handled during the cattle trades boom after the war.

Thanks for the information and reference Jon I never did understand why the Confederacy would ship cattle to Cuba and I questioned this point. However there may be an explanation. Maybe Ill hang around long enough to see it solved lol and I may purchase the book and I can read it later during my time in the swamp..

 

[ECS]

Jon,it is always good to read your imput and the history you provide.
James McKay Sr of Tampa served as the Commissary Agent of Florida's 5th CSA Military District,and it that capacity,McKay Sr was never captured.
Jr servered under Munnerlyn at Fort Meade as Capt and Quartermaster,so he was more than just a "cow catcher".

 

[legrand]

BCH and ECS...

The Beale Papers?

There's a PM to both of you from Legrand.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Jon,it is always good to read your imput and the history you provide.
James McKay Sr of Tampa served as the Commissary Agent of Florida's 5th CSA Military District,and it that capacity,McKay Sr was never captured.
Jr servered under Munnerlyn at Fort Meade as Capt and Quartermaster,so he was more than just a "cow catcher".

Did you find any records of his whereabouts and/or his escape in March/April of 1864 when Fort Meade was captured? ...or are you just assuming he escaped?

 

[ECS]

Did you find any records of his whereabouts and/or his escape in March/April of 1864 when Fort Meade was captured? ...or are you just assuming he escaped?

Yes,there are records.
Both McKays and Lesleys are buried in Tampa's OAKLAWN CEMETARY,as well as many other cow calvary and CSA soldiers.
http://www.tampascv/oaklawn-tampa.html
CSA Capt Francis A Hendry was also a cattleman and a member of Munnerlyn's Battalion at Fort Meade,and the cow calvarys were disbanded May 20,1865,a little over a month after Richmond fell,April 2,1865.
This is interesting-Col F A Hendry led a survey party into the Everglades,Oct 15,1883 for the US government.
An article in the NEW YORK TIMES dated Sept 14,1883 states:
"When the centre of the Everglades is reached a camp will be established for two weeks,and surveying parties will be sent out..."
A camp in the Everglades by a former CSA officer-part of the legend?
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com~crackerbarrel/William3.html
Other sites about the cow cavalry,history,roster,& deserters:
History
Company B, Second Florida Cavalry
Tories Of The Lower Peace River Valley