Swamp Gold

[Bigdogdad]

You haven't offended me. I have no plans to start a thread about this. I really don't have any more info to share at this time. There was something I learned that had happened in the distant past at the EXACT spot on the ground where Ovid said the gold is buried. I don't mean in the same area, I mean that if I were to stand at a specific spot, it is the same place. If I brought this up it could reveal this location.

As far as the two guys and their detector, I do not want to go into detail at this time. Whether it worked or not will remain to be seen. I am basing my belief in the gold on Ovid. Everything else just helps strengthen my belief.

As far as waiting till September, time has a way of flying. I am very involved in other ventures and adventures. There are some easier to deal with locations that I plan to go after before I get concerned about the "Swamp Gold".

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Since I started this thread in 2005, the legend has taken off with 645 replies and its now all over the internet. Thinking about the colorful characters involved will make for an interesting video.

 

[ECS]

Thanks for sharing the story. Do you know the source? Who told you? Ovid?

I should not have said I did not care about the details of how the gold got there. Its just that I don't have the time or interest to do a lot of the research that is already being done by others. Treasures could be found and have no trace of who put them there. I have a very interesting first hand story concerning this treasure that I am just not ready to share. Ovid was 84 in 1984. I did see the post about the 1000 feet from alligator alley. The truth is if my old buddy Ovid could locate the gold so can others. It is right out in the open and very deep. No one is going to dig it up without permission. The indians could if they want to. They may already know where it is. I have stood over the top of it.

The story that I was told at the time was that this was a gold shipment being sent to England as an up front payment for arnament. The confederates had no factories to produce cannons and had to buy them from the British who wanted to be payed up front. As the soldiers tried to cross the Everglades they got to a point and decided they could go no further. They buried the gold and turned around and headed back west. The gold was not recovered. Thats all I know and need to know. The most important thing to me is the EXACT spot it is now and how to get permission to dig it up.

During the early days of the war,when munition purchases were made,the SOUTH still had many open ports-so why would gold be transported through the Everglades?
In 1861,the CONFEDERATE YREASURY had $20,000,000.00 in gold and silver assets-$15,000,000 from selling specie loan bonds to investment houses and speculators,gold loan negoitinated from London and Paris,6,000,000 gold and silver coins seized from Federal custom houses, gold and silver coins turned over by Southern banks,and jewelry donated by Southern ladies for the cause,for a total of $22,000,000.
Most of the treasury was spent on warships-CSA ALABAMA,CSA FLORIDA,CSA SHENANDOAH,guns,gunpowder,and other munitions.
Yes,the CSA did business with England,but also with France,The Netherlands,and Germany,all demanded payment in gold and silver.
When CSA President,Jefferson Davis and his party were captured,May 1865,the Union recovered $85,000 in gold,$36,000 in silver bullion,$35,000 in silver coins,and $700,000 in Confederate bills.Another $35,000 in gold and silver were captured at Yulee's Cottonwood Plantation at Archer.Davis stated that this was all the remaining funds of the Confederate Treasury.
Now a private blockade runner could make a small fortune on a run of cotton to England or France.A ship with 800 bales of cotton would bring in $420,000 -and the blockade runners were paid in only gold or silver coin and bullion,which were used for cattle purchases,etc.The blockade runners were,after all,profiteers.
Now,why would anyone bury gold in the Everglades 1000 ft deep and how in the 1860's.

 

[Bigdogdad]

ECS--That's quite a load of "FACTS" you got there. I am not sure what it has to do with the "Swamp Gold". I hope when you were gathering these "FACTS" you did a better job of reading then you did when you read my post. Where in the heck does it say anything was buried 1000 feet deep? In actuality I will add to my post that it is 1000 North of I-75/Alligator Alley. As far as why they tried to cut across the Everglades, maybe they thought it would be a shortcut, or maybe their GPS was broken.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

During the early days of the war,when munition purchases were made,the SOUTH still had many open ports-so why would gold be transported through the Everglades?
In 1861,the CONFEDERATE YREASURY had $20,000,000.00 in gold and silver assets-$15,000,000 from selling specie loan bonds to investment houses and speculators,gold loan negoitinated from London and Paris,6,000,000 gold and silver coins seized from Federal custom houses, gold and silver coins turned over by Southern banks,and jewelry donated by Southern ladies for the cause,for a total of $22,000,000.
Most of the treasury was spent on warships-CSA ALABAMA,CSA FLORIDA,CSA SHENANDOAH,guns,gunpowder,and other munitions.
Yes,the CSA did business with England,but also with France,The Netherlands,and Germany,all demanded payment in gold and silver.
When CSA President,Jefferson Davis and his party were captured,May 1865,the Union recovered $85,000 in gold,$36,000 in silver bullion,$35,000 in silver coins,and $700,000 in Confederate bills.Another $35,000 in gold and silver were captured at Yulee's Cottonwood Plantation at Archer.Davis stated that this was all the remaining funds of the Confederate Treasury.
Now a private blockade runner could make a small fortune on a run of cotton to England or France.A ship with 800 bales of cotton would bring in $420,000 -and the blockade runners were paid in only gold or silver coin and bullion,which were used for cattle purchases,etc.The blockade runners were,after all,profiteers.
Now,why would anyone bury gold in the Everglades 1000 ft deep and how in the 1860's.

ECS has been the most helpful researcher on this entire thread and has posted good work and raised a lot good questions. I am open to discussing unorthodox methods such as dowsing but this is not simply a dowsing thread. Because if this was simply a dowsing thread, Im afraid it would be moved by the moderator to its proper place and I do not want to see this thread moved. This is a research thread created for the purpose of research.

The gold is not 1000 feet deep. Several sources place it about 1000 feet from the highway which is very convenient BTW. I dont think the depth has been determined. At this point we do not know what kind of electronic equipment was used, if any, and at what depth. I have another thread in the tech forum trying to discover if a metal detector could differentiate between gold and aluminum or brass and the word I am getting back is it does not exist even today. But this is only a minor setback.

I think the story about crossing the Everglades to trade with England or Europe is probably made up. Its not in any of the old treasure books or newsclippings. I agree with ECS, it doesnt make sense but I am not ruling it out and I am open to any and all thoughts opinions and suggestions and I hope the research will continue.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Keep in mind the Everglades is extremely flat with a wet and a dry season. I havent checked but the highest elevation in the area would be about 12 feet above sea level, maybe 15. I have many USGS maps from 1972 that show the elevation . Ill have to check.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Like I have said before there is something about this spot that has nothing to do with dowsing. If I told you what it was you could possibly use that information to come up with the same exact spot. I am not ready to give up this information. The electronic equipment that was used was one-of-a -kind and is not available. The depth of the gold is 18 feet. It is on the highest spot in the whole area for miles around. As far as it seeming to be conveinient to I-75 remember that the highway used to be a 2 lane road. Before that it was probably a trail as a lot of old roads were in the past.

The problem with doing so much research is that it will eventually start contradicting itself to the point that you don't know what to believe. If you want to find the gold you are eventually going to have to dig. To locate the EXACT spot to dig you have to be willing to use every means available to come up with a place to make a hole. If you are not willing to do this you will NEVER find this gold. The Everglades is a BIG place.

I had a guy show up at my pirate chest dig site in Englewood 20 years ago. He had a fancy dowsing rod. It said the chest was there. He said they used dowsing only to get close and then switched to electronic equipment to pinpoint the spot. He used to work for Mel Fisher. His name was Rick Vaughn.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I quess I just don't know when to shut up. I read a few of my last posts where I said I was done talking and then I keep coming back on saying more. So heres some more info so you don't think I am all about dowsing only. I have tried to get permission to dig at this spot. The guy who was the only one I could talk to by only dealing on this over the phone was Ralph. I have his first name in my notes. He said they would have to have "proof' that the gold was there before they would get involved with me. I am not really sure what they would consider "proof'. I think their own GPR would show the gold if it was over it.

I have never tried driving down to the reservation and trying to talk to somebody. I would be willing to if I were ready to go after the gold. The hardest part of treasure hunting can be getting permission from property owners.

Since you have all been doing so much research do you know of any local Indian lore about the gold. I do. The place where the gold is has a name. Anybody know it. I do. If you can guess it or know it, put it on the thread. Knowing it can lead you to the gold.

 

[ECS]

ECS--That's quite a load of "FACTS" you got there. I am not sure what it has to do with the "Swamp Gold". I hope when you were gathering these "FACTS" you did a better job of reading then you did when you read my post. Where in the heck does it say anything was buried 1000 feet deep? In actuality I will add to my post that it is 1000 North of I-75/Alligator Alley. As far as why they tried to cut across the Everglades, maybe they thought it would be a shortcut, or maybe their GPS was broken.

Yes,Bigdogdad,I misread your quote. I have noticed your disdane for historical "FACTS" if it gets in the way of a good legend,but without "FACTS" to substantiate a legend,it remains just that,a LEGEND.
What does it have to do with "Swamp Gold"?
The amount of Confederate gold mentioned in all the lost gold stories-does the amount add up to what was in the Confederate Treasury-not just in Florida,but in Texas,NC,SC,Virginia,Mississippi,and Georgia.
Remember,Jefferson Davis said at his capture,that what he had were the remaining funds of the Confederacy-$156,000 in hard currency (not including the $700,000 in Confederate bills),add the $35,000 captured at Yulee's Plantation,thats $191,000.
The 1861-1865 worth of 1000lbs of gold (troy)would be $240,000,the amount in the Everglades legend-one needs to determine if the CSA had this gold to ship through the Everglades.
To bring some facts to this legend one needs to determine:
Where did the gold originate?The Confederacy kept records,ie Dahlonega transfers.
What purpose was this gold transported?
Who transported this shipment?
Are there Union records supporting the "chase aspect"of the gold?
Are there CSA COW CALVARY records concerning protection for the transport?
Most important the DATE.
If,indeed,this is Confederate gold,all assets were forfeit to the UNITED STATES government.
Oh,but facts do get in the way of a good legend.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I quess I just don't know when to shut up. I read a few of my last posts where I said I was done talking and then I keep coming back on saying more. So heres some more info so you don't think I am all about dowsing only. I have tried to get permission to dig at this spot. The guy who was the only one I could talk to by only dealing on this over the phone was Ralph. I have his first name in my notes. He said they would have to have "proof' that the gold was there before they would get involved with me. I am not really sure what they would consider "proof'. I think their own GPR would show the gold if it was over it.

I have never tried driving down to the reservation and trying to talk to somebody. I would be willing to if I were ready to go after the gold. The hardest part of treasure hunting can be getting permission from property owners.

Since you have all been doing so much research do you know of any local Indian lore about the gold. I do. The place where the gold is has a name. Anybody know it. I do. If you can guess it or know it, put it on the thread. Knowing it can lead you to the gold.

I certainly dont claim to know everything but I know a lot more than I did when I started this thread and a lot more than I did when I zeroxed the story from the local library as a teenager..

Im willing to use any source for research including Indian lore, ESP and dowsing. I stop short of using a Ouija Board again. But like I said before I dont want the thread moved. In the past arguments usually occur when dowsing is the main topic of the conversation and it usually leads to the the entire thread being moved.

No, I dont know the name or the Indian lore. Im not even sure of your location.


I dont know what proof would be possible since there is no electronic device that can signal gold only. I like the idea of drilling a core sample on your Pirate thread.. Is this feasable?

 

[ECS]

I quess I just don't know when to shut up. I read a few of my last posts where I said I was done talking and then I keep coming back.

Since you have all been doing so much research do you know of any local Indian lore about the gold. I do. The place where the gold is has a name. Anybody know it. I do. If you can guess it or know it, put it on the thread. Knowing it can lead you to the gold.

Why don't you,in good faith and all?
...or are you just fishing?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is BigDogDads other Pirate Treasure thread. It also has his website. It may help explain the situation. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/cache-hunting/295354-pirate-treasure-trying-get-permit-dig-up.html

Yes I would like to know about the Indian lore about the gold but if it reveals the exact location, I understand you not willing to post it online..

I dont remember when the Miccosukis became involved in gambling but I do remember they were still living in Chickees when I was a young man. I dont recognize the name Ralph but I certainly dont know them all.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Like I have said before there is something about this spot that has nothing to do with dowsing. If I told you what it was you could possibly use that information to come up with the same exact spot. I am not ready to give up this information. The electronic equipment that was used was one-of-a -kind and is not available. The depth of the gold is 18 feet. It is on the highest spot in the whole area for miles around. As far as it seeming to be conveinient to I-75 remember that the highway used to be a 2 lane road. Before that it was probably a trail as a lot of old roads were in the past.

The problem with doing so much research is that it will eventually start contradicting itself to the point that you don't know what to believe. If you want to find the gold you are eventually going to have to dig. To locate the EXACT spot to dig you have to be willing to use every means available to come up with a place to make a hole. If you are not willing to do this you will NEVER find this gold. The Everglades is a BIG place.

I had a guy show up at my pirate chest dig site in Englewood 20 years ago. He had a fancy dowsing rod. It said the chest was there. He said they used dowsing only to get close and then switched to electronic equipment to pinpoint the spot. He used to work for Mel Fisher. His name was Rick Vaughn.

Somehow I missed this post. Yes Alligator Alley was a 2 lane road and before it was built this location was in the middle of nowhere. I used to run my fulltrack in the area. The Alley cut straight across the swamp. I have researched the old Seminole INdian War trails in the area. The old newspaper clippings describe it as several days trip at least from FtLaud..

Ill have to search my old maps to find the elevation. There are many islands in the Everglades a few feet higher than surrounding lands and the drainage canals and landfill may have also dried up the area in question.

What we have been doing is sorting through the legends, treasure books and newsclippings and tossing out what doesnt fit the facts.

 

[Bigdogdad]

ECS- You are wrong. Facts are only as good as the source that came up with them. The difference about what really happened almost 150 years ago and what you can now find written may be huge. I did not go after some "legend". I was using a person as a "tool' to lead me to the gold. In fact he did it from 10 miles away. Whether this "tool" works or not has been tested and proven.

I was led to a location by the "tool/person". In the course of this expidition I found out about a "story/legend/ of gold being lost in the Everglades. According to the information in this particular book, the location I was led to fit in.

Electronic equipment was used to verify this location. This equipment had extensive testing.

In the course of my on site investigation/research I found out about a local Indian "legend/story/lore'" pertaining to this exact spot and gold. It confirmed in my mind what I already believed. This was over 20 years ago. I only recently joined Treasurenet. I had no idea of all the info/posts/research on here that has been done concerning "Swamp Gold".

I would not be suprised if there are many others who may know as much or more about this than me.

I have not read this entire thread and may not. From the small amount of "facts" that this site is so overfull of it seems to me that ECS may not believe there is gold in the swamp.

ECS--after all your extensive research, do you believe there is a large amount of gold buried in the Everglades? I am "fishing" for an answer from you.

There are some Treasurenet members who took the time to meet me in person and check out one of my stories. I believe that I made "believers" out of them.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

ECS- You are wrong. Facts are only as good as the source that came up with them. The difference about what really happened almost 150 years ago and what you can now find written may be huge.
.

We realize this. This is why we are trying to go straight to the source and find original military historic records.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I did not go after some "legend". I was using a person as a "tool' to lead me to the gold. In fact he did it from 10 miles away. Whether this "tool" works or not has been tested and proven.

I was led to a location by the "tool/person". In the course of this expidition I found out about a "story/legend/ of gold being lost in the Everglades. According to the information in this particular book, the location I was led to fit in.

In the course of my on site investigation/research I found out about a local Indian "legend/story/lore'" pertaining to this exact spot and gold. It confirmed in my mind what I already believed. This was over 20 years ago. I only recently joined Treasurenet. I had no idea of all the info/posts/research on here that has been done concerning "Swamp Gold".

.

I realize you had no idea about the legend but the dowser/tool person knew all about the legend. You said they had old books. And he knew about the Pirate location too. It wasnt like yall were just happen to be driving down the road and found gold by accident.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I agree with you that it all eerily fits together. It all fits together like a glove. But I sure would like to find some factual military historic records to back up the legend.

I havent read all of signals links but Im working on it.

 

[signal]

One interesting story, which I can find little information about, regarding buried gold, possibly near the everglades, and indians (seminoles) is "Treasure Spot":

Exploring Florida Documents: Pageants

 

[Bigdogdad]

Ovid knew nothing about the pirate treasure. I did as I grew up in the area. I asked him to take out his pendulum as we were driving down the road as I knew we would be passing by the old pirate camp. As far as the gold on the Alley, he had located it while sitting in his living room using a Florida map. How is that for crazy?

What you all choose to believe about any of this has absolutely no bearing on what the "truth" will turn out to be. The only way to know "for sure" if there is gold buried is to dig it up, which I plan to do. In the mean time keep doing your research. Have fun with it. Good luck. Maybe you will find an old map with an X marks the spot on it. Then you will know where to dig.

 

[ECS]

ECS- You are wrong. Facts are only as good as the source that came up with them. The difference about what really happened almost 150 years ago and what you can now find written may be huge.

In the course of my on site investigation/research I found out about a local Indian "legend/story/lore'" pertaining to this exact spot and gold. It confirmed in my mind what I already believed.

I would not be suprised if there are many others who may know as much or more about this than me.

I have not read this entire thread and may not. From the small amount of "facts" that this site is so overfull of it seems to me that ECS may not believe there is gold in the swamp.

ECS--after all your extensive research, do you believe there is a large amount of gold buried in the Everglades? I am "fishing" for an answer from you.

QUID PRO QUO-The Native American name of the "EXACT SPOT".