strange pile of rocks

[TLH]

I was out at my site a couple of days ago, and did some scans with my MTFG [magic treasure finding gadget]. I haven’t located any tunnels yet but I did get this scan over a Quartz vein. The red in the scan is supposed to be an indicator of metal or something metallic, could be gold, or could be something like Iron Pyrites . I guess its gonna take a lot more experience on my part to know these things for sure. I scanned over several other Quartz veins on that trip and this was the only one that had red in it. Next trip I’ll take my gold pan and pan out a few samples to see what’s there.

 

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[Twisted Fork]

There may be a set of markers on high ground where you stand to look down on the mountain to observe for a giant shadow in the shape of the marker your standing next to at the top. The general outline of paper maps are traced this way. Sometimes the entire mine site is within one single giant shadow. Twisted

 

[Leones Corazon]

That stack of rocks on top of your large turtle is usually a map of the area in which the placement of the stones will mirror other markers in the area....and just for the hell of it....follow the point of that heart.....if it points out the cache like our site there will be skulls and bolts near the cache.

DW

 

[Springfield]

Reality Check - sorry

Obviously a man-made stack of rocks, TLH, but unfortunately there are thousands of stacks of rocks located in every state in the West, and nearly all of them were erected for reasons other than as 'treasure signs'. It's a bitter pill to swallow, I know, but you really have to face reality. Rock cairns such as yours were/are erected in highly visible locations by hunters, ranchers, miners, hikers, surveyors, wetbacks, etc. to mark locations for themselves and others for a myriad of reasons having nothing to do with treasure hunting. Ever hike Southern Arizona or New Mexico? You'll see rock cairns like yours in the darndest places. Were they set up by Montezuma's minions hauling his treasure north? No, they were set up by illegal aliens to mark trails to pick-up destinations on remote dirt roads or blacktops. My girlfriend, an old hippie, typically erects a similar cairn at significent viewpoints such as yours during hikes. Ever been to Sedona? You can barely hike those hills without stumbling over rock cairns at every turn - they're new age offerings, not treasure signs. Many old mining claim corners were marked by a small rock cairn just like yours. At 600 and 1500 feet distant, you may find other claim corners. At least these types of monuments were possibly related to potential precious metals in their day. Check the county courthouse to research old mining claim locations.

pareidolia (payr.eye.DOH.lee.uh) n. The erroneous or fanciful perception of a pattern or meaning in something that is actually ambiguous or random; a psychological term for the mind's obsession with finding patterns in essentially random objects, from clouds to wood grain. Same goes for the turtle. Yes, it does resemble a turtle when you peer at it from the right angle. You want it to be a treasure sign, but is it, really? Maybe. Probably not. Heart-shaped rocks are another way to waste days, months or years following the 'signs'. Do you have any idea how many natural heart-shaped rocks are to be found in nature? I do - thousands and thousands, everywhere. My girlfriend collects them - they're all over the house and yard. I recently saw an artist's montage made up of dozens of heart-shaped stones he had collected. We they 'Spanish markers'? No, they were merely heart-shaped stones and rocks.

You'll get a lot of 'expert' opinions about this topic on these forums, given by people who truly believe what they're posting. Remember, just because you believe in an idea, that doesn't make the idea valid. It's fun to follow up on all the 'clues' we find in the hills, but we have to be discriminating about where we place our energy, otherwise we find ourselves going in endless circles. Personally, I prefer rock carvings.

 

[TLH]

Springfield you have written one of the most lucid, well thought out and cogent posts as I have ever seen on the internet, and I must say that I agree with almost everything you say. It is hard for me to refute anything that you have said, because many times I have looked at other peoples signs on the internet and felt exactly what you have so succinctly expressed. So I feel that I should answer your post point by point so as to better explain why I continue to chase this dream.

I spend a lot of time traveling, mostly in the west, it’s a hobby of mine. In my travels I tend to stay away from cities and spend most of my time in the woods and the deserts, those are the places I feel most at home. And speaking of home, I live in the woods, in Colorado, in the mountains surrounded by pine and Aspens trees and lots and lots of rocks . So from that you can tell that I come in contact with a lot of rocks of different kinds and shapes on a daily basis .

Another hobby of mine is Prospecting ,I’m not very good at it but I have been doing it for a long time. Since I enjoy being out in the woods and deserts’ Prospecting just seemed like a good thing to do while I was there. I haven’t made much money at it , but I do have Mining Claims in four states, and I do enjoy the hunt. So yes I have erected, and helped others erect dozens and dozens of claim markers, Mostly metal pipe but every once in a while I have to build one out of rock just like the old days.

As for all the different people that put up rock markers that you mentioned, I am familiar with most of them. I am a hunter [Deer and Elk], I am a hiker, yes I have hiked in Southern Az. And New Mexico [ I have mining claims in both places ]and I’ve hiked in Sedona in Oak Creek Canyon. I’m sort of a miner,[ mostly placer], I have friends that are Ranchers, and I know a Surveyor pretty well ,I’ve even held his Rod for him. [get your mind out of the gutter, that’s what they call it] Although I must admit that I’ve never waded across the Rio Grand, I have walked over some of the bridges. So I guess it would be fair to say that I’ve seen a lot of man made rock piles and cairns.

I’m not sure which Turtle your referring to that may or may not be one, but which ever one it is I have to agree with you, it may not be one, and the same for the hearts, I also see heart shapes in the field that look perfectly natural to me. But that’s why I’m here, trying to find information about which ones if any may be real.

In your last paragraph you mention people who believe something just because they want to believe it, again I have to agree with you. I see this all the time on the internet and in person, some body saying they know exactly where the treasure is, exactly what it is, why its there, and what its worth, some even say they have touched it,------but they never go get it, they will give you all kinds of reasons why they don’t go get it, but the reasons make since only to them. The really sad part is that these people will die some day and leave their fanciful stories of gold beyond your wildest dreams for there gullible relatives to waste there lives and money searching for. As a business man who has bought mining properties before, I have seen this first hand,

So taking all that information about me into consideration, here’s why I think that the little turtle rocks stand a chance of being real. [1] there are local Mexican ranchers that I’ve talked to , who believe that their past relatives worked for the Spanish miners hundreds of years ago, and settled there when the Spanish were defeated in the Mexican revolution . [2] the site is located within an old Spanish land Grant. [3]There is a small amount of actual historic data that suggests that the Spanish mined in the area. [4] the site is located in a mining district, meaning that gold has been mined there in the past. [5]The location of the little turtles makes it highly unlikely that any of the usual suspects, ranchers, hikers, hunters, etc , would climb up on top of a 50 foot tall rock, that has no easy way to scale it just to stack up some rocks. Mining claim marker, no way , me and everybody I know look for the easiest place possible to put a corner marker. [6] The size of the rocks. I know that in these pictures I show that its almost impossible to tell the size of anything, but take it from me these signs I show everyone are huge. And the little turtles are the same. I cant get up on the rock to measure them [way to high for me] but one time I accidentally took a picture of the little turtles while a Crow was perched on them and I was shocked to see how big they really were. Relative to the crow I figured that the small turtle on top was about four feet long and the one he sits on maybe five ft long . So even the small one must weigh a couple of hundred pounds, and to me it would make no since for a normal person to be up that high messing with a rock that big [7] their carved to look like two turtles, what are the odds of two rocks both looking like turtles without help from somebody? And what hiker would do that? And what hunter carries a hammer and chisel around with him. [8] their sitting on a skylight.

I could have put several more but this post is getting way to long, and I’ve got some things I need to get done . But I want to thank you again Springfield for giving me some things to think about, and I'm not saying that your wrong ,you may well be correct , but I just believe that in the case of the little turtles there is at least some supporting evidence. I also believe that we all need to feel a cold wet slap of reality every once in a while .

Twisted Fork and Azstomper ,I didn’t forget about you, I’ll write soon as I can.

 

[Leones Corazon]

Springfield....

A public forum is a great thing...we can all express our opinions on the subject....it is the job of the individual to wade thru these opinions and somehow come up with the truth in our minds of what we feel to be correct...weather its a blind faith or based in reality. I agree with you 110 percent except when it comes to my experiences with markers on my sites in central arizona and western colorado as i state what i state here based upon boots on the ground work and not something some hack job gleaned from other peoples published works and then published as his own.

I have had some help in my learning curve from some of our older and wiser hunters in this small community....but it took along time in all cases (9-12 months) before i earned their trust and respect. And then at that point they would open up a bit and answer a few questions...pat me on the ass...and send me back out in the field as the only way to learn is to spend a lot of time in your area....even if its just sitting on a rock like a chipmunk staring at rocks for long periods of time. And of course....taking a ton of high quality pictures and studying them at a later date. This being said...i'll be the first to tell anyone who asks i am in no way an expert on this subject...it is a hobby of mine....a passion one might say that i enjoy when i am not couped up on an oil rig for weeks at a time steering a drill bit. But i can say...by carefully studying the marks...and following them to there conclusion has taught me alot of valuable lessons.

I will say that on a whole....90 percent of our markers are in fact nothing more than the equivalant of our modern highway signs found along all of our highways and byways....the other 10 percent are the ones we all dream about finding....as they lead to a cache....mining site...royal trail...etc. That being said....here is what i have learned between az. and co. The markers (if we are speaking about the castilian spanish) are generally the same and employeed the same. There are differences obviously between individuals (whomever was in charge of the monument building on said entrada) and time periods which account for why the same shape is used but differently. IE: heart stones....in az. my heart stones stand straight up...one lobe of the heart will have a small nodule on it that resembles a triangle....looking over this nodule one will see the next intended marker. In co. i will usually start the trail with a small window which will have a hand carved (chisel marks) heart stone placed within the window.....at the end of the trail will be a heart stone again of varying sizes.....and the point will be pointing at the caches location. If the intended cache is still present....the heart stone will be intact....if it has been removed....a lobe of the heart will be broken off. Again...believe what you will....but on my sites....this is the case...Mother nature does create lots of wonderful shapes in stone....however she never leaves chisel marks.

Another item which confirms the manmadeness of these markers in this area is the recovery of a cross bow bolt and a many bridle jingles that are hand forged and match a known set in our local museum. Again in stone....the spanish made profile heads looking in all directions...however one direction will always (at least on my sites) indicate the location of the camp....and by useing this these items have been located....sometimes on top of the ground without the aid of a metal detector.

Here is a pic taken by my partner OD with a heart from our location....and note the snake behind me intended to warn of danger in the area......enjoy......

DW

 

[Old Dog]

Springfield.

It would behoove a person to do some research on the subject before trying to defame it.

Spanish hunters the world over (yes the world) use the same signs and symbols for a simple reason. They were decreed by the King of Spain to be uniform, the shapes and measurements were part of that decree. Right down to the depth to bury a cache, and signs that tell how to find it again.

The information is available, (maybe not in your local library) finding it is part of the hunt.
When you find enough information to substantiate a claim that we are wrong, Please bring it to the table and I for one will be the first to listen, ..... I have found too much evidence of the Spanish and their passage through my area using these signs, symbols, markers and monuments to doubt the reality and relevance of their presence.

Meanwhile, if you are hunting Spanish by rock art alone, LOL...
Good luck

Thom
OD

 

[Twisted Fork]

The key to seeing through the combination is in the manner by which "nature" repeats itself on any scale. Find it out of place in the overall matrix and seek out the pattern required of that King. Like he said. Twisted

 

[Old Dog]

Yup,

Like Twisty says...
Natural things in unnatural places and positions.
OD

 

[Springfield]

Springfield.

It would behoove a person to do some research on the subject before trying to defame it.

Spanish hunters the world over (yes the world) use the same signs and symbols for a simple reason. They were decreed by the King of Spain to be uniform, the shapes and measurements were part of that decree. Right down to the depth to bury a cache, and signs that tell how to find it again.

The information is available, (maybe not in your local library) finding it is part of the hunt.
When you find enough information to substantiate a claim that we are wrong, Please bring it to the table and I for one will be the first to listen, ..... I have found too much evidence of the Spanish and their passage through my area using these signs, symbols, markers and monuments to doubt the reality and relevance of their presence.

Meanwhile, if you are hunting Spanish by rock art alone, LOL...
Good luck

Thom
OD

Whoa, slow down Dog. My post above was directed at TLH, not you and Stomper. But since you've felt it necessary to jump my case, let me respond. In the first place, I could care less about proving you and Stomper 'wrong'. I've got other things to spend my energy on rather than whatever you guys are turning up in Colorado. Whatever it is, good luck to you, I hope it pays off. By the way, speaking of Colorado, there's still a lot of free-milling gold to be recovered at a number of sites in the hills above Ouray, Tellurade and Silverton. I helped an old man from Ouray work one of them in the '70's. It was hard work (hand steel), and nasty shifting ground, but the picture rock was worth it. The old guy said he knew of a half-dozen other prospects just as good, but he was in his 70's then and I'll bet those other sites are still sitting there untouched. Somewhere off the Lake City road as I recall. But I digress.

Research on the subject? Well, if you're talking about all the information available in the public domain - yes, even the books of the Great Kenworthy - I can tell you that nearly all of it is rubbish. The books all look quite handsome in the bookcase, but they will never teach you how to interpret genuine treasure clues, let alone lead you to anything of monetary value. Are there genuine clues to be found? Yes, indeed, many of them, and if you're diligent, you can learn to use them to predict the locations of others and to recognize the patterns they form. It's not difficult finding signs, but you are never going to recover a cache from them, no matter how many years you ponder them. The clues were created to be located later by people who own the caches and know how to recover them. Hint: the stuff you're finding isn't 'Spanish'. Something's happening, but you don't know what it is, do you Mr. Jones?

 

[TLH]

Well Good Grief, I come back from my site cold and wet, [ it snowed ] I settle down in my bunny slippers with an adult beverage , hop on the Internet, and what do I find ? Bickering! and not just bickering , but people quoting old Bob Dylan songs!
What in the world happened while I was gone ? Well, Ill try and figure it out when I get the time, meanwhile in the words of a famous philosopher “ cant we all just get along”. and Springfield, “ the man in a coonskin cap in a pigpen wants eleven dollar bills , you only got ten.”

 

[Twisted Fork]

Most of those guys could retire with one burro load of the real thing. The Indians were the biggest threat and then the blood thirsty Mormons. If you were to travel all of those dangerous hundreds of miles only to find wild natives and Mormons about or a collapsed tunnel or all of the above, there was a system installed by the bro before ye who was watching out for you so as you could load up and get a go'in pronto and not have wasted the journey. Ya?

 

[Old Dog]

The one thing I will never understand is a nay sayer who still says Nay,
even after evidence proving his opinion wrong is presented.

The things of importance that we have recovered from these sites are authenticated, and are definitely Spanish.
Some have been posted here on T-net. But that is as good as it gets.

I am not going to go out of my way to change anyone's mind. Because in the long run negative opinions don't matter, not to me.

I have been getting the last laugh for years.
The guys who say Nay are the ones who can't figure out ......
What is so darn funny!

OD

 

[Springfield]

The one thing I will never understand is a nay sayer who still says Nay,
even after evidence proving his opinion wrong is presented.

The things of importance that we have recovered from these sites are authenticated, ... etc.

OD

Dog, I'll stick with my opinions, thank you. I'm not asking you or anyone else to agree with me. My intent in posting is only to suggest to searchers to be both skeptical and open-minded, because in this game things are seldom as they seem. If it's important to you be be recognized as an authority on the subject, then have at it. Incidentally, I'm sure you guys have located lots of cool things in Colorado, but as far as I have seen, you haven't proved anything.

 

[Old Dog]

I don't come to these threads to prove anything.
I come to sort out things I am not sure of,
and to share what I know with those who want it or need it.

Never claimed to be an authority.

Having posted photos of actual Authenticated Spanish artifacts,isn't enough for you then...
No sir.
I guess you will never be convinced.

Best of luck to you in all your hunts.
Thom

 

[CanadianTrout]

Hey guys. Any word from TLH lately? I had been following this thread for awhile as it appeared to my layman's eye that he might have had some genuine bonafide treasure markers or at least he was on a trail....

Hope he's ok. Maybe he made "the big discovery" and is keeping mom about it.... Let's hope so.

 

[Peerless67]

Well Good Grief, I come back from my site cold and wet, [ it snowed ] I settle down in my bunny slippers with an adult beverage , hop on the Internet, and what do I find ? Bickering! and not just bickering , but people quoting old Bob Dylan songs!
What in the world happened while I was gone ?

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind

 

[CanadianTrout]

LOL Peerless! Nice quote.

I read that reply from him but that was back in Oct. It's now the New Year. Am I to assume that he's off for the winter because of the snow there? That we'll hear from him in the spring? Only time will tell.

 

[Smee]

In reply #301, the bent tree in your 1st photo is what the Ute call a "prayer tree". Religious purpose for the bend. Ute are the only ones I know of to bend pines for that purpose, but other tribes may have done so.

 

[ashleysflyr]

OH COMEON!!! I didn't read 370 something posts to be left with that DID I TLH are you there man? I am dying here. This is worse than the acorn thingy in the "What is it" forum. hope he's ok...

~Tom