Queens Dowry...

[bigscoop]

The "chest" that I keep seeing listed on manifest.....some say "small chest". A couple of accounts say something like "8000 small chest"....so just how small was small by comparison? The shear number of chest that are listed is mine boggling.....but then you see "small chest?"

The reason I asked about the chest is because I have seen "chest" listed as having been "gifts". Gifts to whom and what was in them, how large were "small chest?" Were any of them part of the dowry, as some information suggest?

 

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[ou8acracker2]

Scientist: All I do is think of theories, then go and try to prove them.
Its such a double edge sword

My best guess...They are at the bottom of the endless expanse of ocean scattered around, not in a big ol pile, to be picked out piece by piece by worthy and hardworking salvage divers.
Thats my best theory on where they are.

 

[elle]

Thanks Greg for your kind words. I have recognized your full dedication to the 1715 shipwreck exploration, your great ability to find some of the best 1715 artifacts in past years, and your knowledge of the 1715 ocean bottom that is better than any archaeologist will ever know. When you were spending hours underwater, my past job allowed me to get on a plane and travel anywhere in the world…any institution to study and research. God has given each person on earth special gifts and talents. Perhaps our goals concerning the1715 are slightly different…who knows. But it is evident we both have a significant passion for this history and the key is to always use our abilities given by God for the good of others.



Concerning gifts for the Queen, there were shipments coming from distant places around the globe. The gifts from governmental officials not only included jewelry, but items such as paintings, books, Oriental folding screens, etc.



Laura J

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Seriously?
Surely you realize that it’s more, way more than hours underwater?

 

[elle]

AuDreamers,
I recently gave Greg some great compliments from the good of my heart. Is there a problem somewhere?
I am also not sure what you meant about "tone" in your last post. Greg and I debated, and that is called a "learning experience."
The great religious men and philosophers have done it for centuries.
Is there anything nice you can say as to my contributions to this forum?

 

[Chagy]

Like I said before this is not personal this is just research in action......I will still stick to my guns on the location of the Capitana based on all the facts I have but I am open to see elle's evidence and be corrected if I am wrong....Thanks to all who have posted valuable information on this thread...We live and learn!!!!

All the best,

Chagy........

 

[Hangingfor8]

This has been a great forum post and both Greg and Laura have been a great part of it. I don't think anyone is getting angry or upset about the post. Debating is a wonderful way to learn and I'm just glad I'm lucky enough to be able to see both sides of it and learn.

 

[GOHO]

Laura, Thanks for the kind words... If it wasnt for Researchers like yourself i wouldnt have any research to read at all.

Thank You!!!!


Chagy's right about the Queens Jewels!... We have nothing more than a few hundred theories... Until someone like Laura finds some new info or someone finds them, we will never know.

 

[bigscoop]

This has been a great forum post and both Greg and Laura have been a great part of it. I don't think anyone is getting angry or upset about the post. Debating is a wonderful way to learn and I'm just glad I'm lucky enough to be able to see both sides of it and learn.

I second that. It's been fantastic!

 

[bigscoop]

Seems there's been "a lot" of spectacular jewelry finds from the Nieves site.

 

[ou8acracker2]

Hey hey hey, no one cop an attitude on this thread . I happen to find it very enjoyable and a very good thread for learning. I want to learn.
Dont you wreck this for me and make me have to revert back to physics lab write ups haha

 

[ou8acracker2]

Anyone want to pipe in on this thread before I salute it and watch it travel on down the threads list into the Abyss.

 

[Chagy]

well if we are still going to go on with the jewels I believe we are done but if you want to change directions onto the other prizes of the 1715 fleet we may have allot of matterial to cover...its your thread

Chagy......

 

[ou8acracker2]

Well if I get to ask the questions here...you opened up pandora's box Chagy

I was wondering about the chests..there was obv small and large chests according to the manifests..
I would assume the chests were wood wrapped in iron or bronze which was typical of the chests of that era.

Has anyone actually ever found a chest in whole form? Would the wood have rotten away before they became incased in coral? With the metal bandings around each chest, theoretically (our favorite word) they would have stayed intact right?

Another thing...since gifts werent taxed which made them not required to list on the manifests, does anyone actually know what the queen was actually supposed to recieve in regards to actual jewelry or are people making assumptions on what is feminine and "fit for a queen"?

feel free to hijack and ask all sorts of questions anyone.

 

[mad4wrecks]

1) Tommy Gore with partially intact wooden chest of coins, by Real Eight Co. on 1715 Cabin wreck, 1965
2) large wooden chest of sailmaker needles, found by Art Hartman in 1971 on 1733 fleet
3) intact wooden chest of splitshot, found by Mo Molinar in early 1990's, 1715 fleet

Tom

 

[GOHO]

Many people believe that these coin chest were 'Lead Lined". I hear this all the time but the FACT is that there has not been any chests found on 1715 fleet or Atocha that were lined with lead. Where did that come from?

We find lots of lead Sheathing that has burlap impressions on them but no evidence they were linning chests of coins...

 

[ou8acracker2]

Why would they line a chest with lead? That would make the chest significantly way more heavy, thus allowing for less cargo to be carried on so said ship and (they thought about this too), less contraband they can bring along in order to make it home safetly.

What would the purpose be anyway? Structural rigidity?

Tom: Thank you for that posts and pictures. So thats what those chests looked like.
Do you know how far down in the sand they found those chests? Im wondering the settling rate of such a dense small object

 

[Alexandre]

lots of lead Sheathing that has burlap impressions on them but no evidence they were linning chests of coins...

That's for hull sheathing. We excavated a Spanish galleon from the late 16th century that was completely encased in lead - and between the lead and the wood, they had some kind of textile fabric.

 

[ScubaFinder]

I've heard the lead-lined chest theory too Greg, but have no idea where it's origins are. I've certainly never seen one or any evidence that made me believe that was true.

For OU8, The reason most chests didn't survive in tact is because the iron straps that held the chest together become a sort of anode or sacrificial metal much like a zinc on a boat. The salt water, iron, and silver together create a very destructive chemical process that quickly consumes the iron. The toredo worms consume the wood, and what you have left is a clump of silver coins. The few chest found partially in tact were likely covered by sand during the storm that caused the wreck. If they were lucky enough to make it a few feet down, they came to rest in the anoxic (oxygen free) zone of the sand column where oxidation cannot occur and toredo worms do not venture.

 

[bigscoop]

I've heard the lead-lined chest theory too Greg, but have no idea where it's origins are. I've certainly never seen one or any evidence that made me believe that was true.

For OU8, The reason most chests didn't survive in tact is because the iron straps that held the chest together become a sort of anode or sacrificial metal much like a zinc on a boat. The salt water, iron, and silver together create a very destructive chemical process that quickly consumes the iron. The toredo worms consume the wood, and what you have left is a clump of silver coins. The few chest found partially in tact were likely covered by sand during the storm that caused the wreck. If they were lucky enough to make it a few feet down, they came to rest in the anoxic (oxygen free) zone of the sand column where oxidation cannot occur and toredo worms do not venture.

A few years ago I was up north and found an old torpedo top beer can under about 20" of sand (freshwater but heavy in iron)....it was dated 1941 and it was in near perfect condition with the paint still in tact. I have a picture of it around here somewhere? I guess this also explains how that can survived for so long?