Please post your suggestions and comments!

[CRUSADER]

What is "Fair market value", on a "significant historical find"??

Its based on a panel of independant specialist, which take into account similar items sold recently (in the open market, including ebay), plus add more for its historial significance. We can all agrue about this & you have a right to have an indepenant valuator come in & fight your corner. I know that they are mostly better than you can achieve anywhere on the black market. Problem is it takes too long!

Why doe's it take to long.

I can find out what something is, what it's worth in less than 24 hours, why can't they?

1.. do they want it (Meseums)
2...can they afford it
3...how much is it worth
4...no to all three return
5..yes we want it but will need time to raise funds

but no takes one to two years

Totally agree, its unacceptable to take over a year max!

 

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[CRUSADER]

Everyone enters this hobby for different reasons. Some for history, enjoyment, excersize, time with friends or children. Others for the possibility of finding coins and relics worth $. Well, that's me. And quite frankly, I'm doing quite well at it. Not as well as I would like, but not bad. There are more people on T-Net, like me, than you know about. What you do, with your finds, is up to you. I don't want some state agency, or Archie, telling me what I should do with mine.

They don't tell me what to do with mine either! Do nothing is always an option for you over there (take your chances). I'm happy with our system, but its you guys who raised the debate.

 

[hogge]

So what side am I on....I thought we were Allies?

 

[Silver Searcher]

So what you are saying...

the Archy's only want to record what they want, don't care about things in the top soil(spoil heaps) but don't want us to recover them.

The Meseums want all our find, don't want to give us acknowledgement, and give little reward for our hard earned finds

All the Archies I have worked with are happy for us to do the spoil. Why do you say they don't want us to recover them? They have currently shown me fields crop marks which maybe a Celtic Temple & encouraged me to get permission to do it. You seem to base your thinking (I think), on some outdated old revivalry which we are trying to bridge. Many do not make those judgements on us, & if we record stuff then they have no reason to do so.

Museums give as fair market value. Sometimes better value than your ever make privately, I know this for a fact & I know those that do this for a living & they would much rather the museum pay the valuation than have the find back. What are you basing your judgement on? I don't understand? We have one of the best systems in Europe & should be happy with our lot?

The fact that you have been given imformation from your Archy's is down to your case findings,(your lucky)

the digs I have shown interest in have been out of reach(refused) even after they had finished the spiked the area concerned.

As for the Meseums giving market values, your way out, wht do you think inderpendeant valuation commitees are set up, don't get me wrong some Archy's welcome input from detectorists, but if there were a vote tommorow how many would lean towards detecting, and lets not forget the country stewardship scheme, how many of these farms signed up for that, allow detecting.

I have heard from three different detectorists about declared finds valuaitions, less than half what they can acheive privately, the lady who found the Gold plaque depicting Christ was offered three thousand pounds, when actually it was worth hundreds of thousands, shall I go on, I can quote more,

It's just a personel thing Cru, you have your thoughts based on what you know or heard , I have mine

Those that make a living from it, take canning choices as to what to record. On average, most achieve more than the mobile they phone to get the cash in hand. I see it in operation, you may have seen the opposite, but in my experience, I have had items back which I could not get anywhere close to its valuation.

This is basically where we will always differ, you place a £ on it, I place a label on it & store it away. So we are coming from opposite ends of the world, you will always hear where people have been underpaid, I will hear where they have added to our history.

That's incorrect (I place a £on it) infact I find that offensive

I make no bones that I sell my items, but for you to say I am only interested in money you totally off the mark.

thats not what I mean, the angle you are coming from is that people don't get what its worth. My point is, I don't care.

I know it means more to you than £s, bad wording on my part.

Lets not fall out again we are on the same side, I hope. This is just a debate after a few drinks (on my part)

I'm on theakstones old perculiar bit like me

 

[CRUSADER]

So what you are saying...

the Archy's only want to record what they want, don't care about things in the top soil(spoil heaps) but don't want us to recover them.

The Meseums want all our find, don't want to give us acknowledgement, and give little reward for our hard earned finds

All the Archies I have worked with are happy for us to do the spoil. Why do you say they don't want us to recover them? They have currently shown me fields crop marks which maybe a Celtic Temple & encouraged me to get permission to do it. You seem to base your thinking (I think), on some outdated old revivalry which we are trying to bridge. Many do not make those judgements on us, & if we record stuff then they have no reason to do so.

Museums give as fair market value. Sometimes better value than your ever make privately, I know this for a fact & I know those that do this for a living & they would much rather the museum pay the valuation than have the find back. What are you basing your judgement on? I don't understand? We have one of the best systems in Europe & should be happy with our lot?

The fact that you have been given imformation from your Archy's is down to your case findings,(your lucky)

the digs I have shown interest in have been out of reach(refused) even after they had finished the spiked the area concerned.

As for the Meseums giving market values, your way out, wht do you think inderpendeant valuation commitees are set up, don't get me wrong some Archy's welcome input from detectorists, but if there were a vote tommorow how many would lean towards detecting, and lets not forget the country stewardship scheme, how many of these farms signed up for that, allow detecting.

I have heard from three different detectorists about declared finds valuaitions, less than half what they can acheive privately, the lady who found the Gold plaque depicting Christ was offered three thousand pounds, when actually it was worth hundreds of thousands, shall I go on, I can quote more,

It's just a personel thing Cru, you have your thoughts based on what you know or heard , I have mine

Those that make a living from it, take canning choices as to what to record. On average, most achieve more than the mobile they phone to get the cash in hand. I see it in operation, you may have seen the opposite, but in my experience, I have had items back which I could not get anywhere close to its valuation.

This is basically where we will always differ, you place a £ on it, I place a label on it & store it away. So we are coming from opposite ends of the world, you will always hear where people have been underpaid, I will hear where they have added to our history.

That's incorrect (I place a £on it) infact I find that offensive

I make no bones that I sell my items, but for you to say I am only interested in money you totally off the mark.

thats not what I mean, the angle you are coming from is that people don't get what its worth. My point is, I don't care.

I know it means more to you than £s, bad wording on my part.

Lets not fall out again we are on the same side, I hope. This is just a debate after a few drinks (on my part)

I'm on theakstones old perculiar bit like me

coming from the south I'm on a bottle of white, but I'm not fussy.

 

[CRUSADER]

So what side am I on....I thought we were Allies?

never made a distinction, I don't care if your black/white/brown/yellow either, I love everyone equally. Its about saving our collective knowledge.

 

[lostcauses]

Ahh the idea you can do as you want on public property: were do you folks get such an idea?
I see the pay taxes again as an excuse to think you can do as you please. Reality check: you can not do as you please on public property in the US. Because YOU bought some piece of equipment give you no RIGHT to own what you find on public or private property. LOL at the gun rights reference to metal detecting.

This crap of do it until told other wise is a PART OF THE PROBLEM.
I can easily take the statements made here and else were on the net and make Exhibit A: Any number of such examples followed by a simple statement:

The are individual metal detectorist that will not ask for permission or a permit because they just want to do it. They see; "not asking for permission, and if not stopped": as PERMITION.

The individual metal detectorist want to seek out and find lost property: not belonging to them, and DIG it up and convert it to there own use, or financial gain.
In our parks the land scape can be damaged by such acts. They will say the repair it, yet who gave them permission to damage it in the first place.
Show a photo of fools that left holes not repaired.

Real basic response that could easily out do any good shown about metal detecting. It is easy to show damage done in this hobby.
This is the problem. How can you out do the bad, and show the good??

I have read the thread about don't post finds. Yet when I read about ignoring permission and go do it, until told to stop; I cringe more than any photo I have seen. It does more potential damage to the system than short of posting "I am digging up a grave for the pots": than any of the other stuff.

You folks may say it interferes with your game to ask; yet you do not even know if it is permitted. Or maybe you know it is not permitted and just chose to ignore it.
I don't know. A mute point at this time any way.

I do know it is one of the better tools to be used to get laws against metal detecting I have read on the internet. And it just keeps coming.

As for the GPS information, well on public lands yes such can be done.
GPS on private land only with permission to do so, and permission to pass that information along.
Oh and Yes I do under stand the need to do such in large areas. A coin spill can be spread a long distance with plowing and other surface disturbance. GPS can show such patterns. It can even be used were a house stood, and the patterns involved with that. For folks that do not know GPS can improve your finds.

 

[CRUSADER]

I want to answer your direct question but it is open ended. What are YOUR guidelines for classification of a "significant historical" find? Would my "Royal Irish Artillery, cartridge box sling belt tip" qualify as such? (Yes) It's tied to one of the greatest battles in our nations history, The Battle of Saratoga. Or what about the 1783 CFT. KG III half penny? That's a significant historical find as it shows where these coins circulated to. (too bad on this one, as it's already been sold) . ......... (maybe yes)

The point is, you have no Law that says you need to record these. This doesn't stop you doing it, even if you sell it. Or are you saying it does? Even the nearest town is better than nothing!

 

[hogge]

I want to answer your direct question but it is open ended. What are YOUR guidelines for classification of a "significant historical" find? Would my "Royal Irish Artillery, cartridge box sling belt tip" qualify as such? (Yes) It's tied to one of the greatest battles in our nations history, The Battle of Saratoga. Or what about the 1783 CFT. KG III half penny? That's a significant historical find as it shows where these coins circulated to. (too bad on this one, as it's already been sold) . ......... (maybe yes)

The point is, you have no Law that says you need to record these. This doesn't stop you doing it, even if you sell it. Or are you saying it does? Even the nearest town is better than nothing!

I agree with both assumptions. BUT.....I don't want any law, or regulation, saying I HAVE to either! Give some jackass, in this country,who doesn't like metal detecting, or something else you're doing, and pretty soon you're voting on some stupid regulation or bylaw, that prohibits what you enjoy doing. That is the whole point.

 

[lostcauses]

It is just an item if it can not be shown were it came from. Some are fine with that, some are not.

More information can be gained by GPS depth and so on. It can increase the value of an item also.

As already stated GPS can assist in a spread of material, and even identify good areas to go back over. It has other uses than just logging data. That data can be useful also.

 

[CRUSADER]

I want to answer your direct question but it is open ended. What are YOUR guidelines for classification of a "significant historical" find? Would my "Royal Irish Artillery, cartridge box sling belt tip" qualify as such? (Yes) It's tied to one of the greatest battles in our nations history, The Battle of Saratoga. Or what about the 1783 CFT. KG III half penny? That's a significant historical find as it shows where these coins circulated to. (too bad on this one, as it's already been sold) . ......... (maybe yes)

The point is, you have no Law that says you need to record these. This doesn't stop you doing it, even if you sell it. Or are you saying it does? Even the nearest town is better than nothing!

I agree with both assumptions. BUT.....I don't want any law, or regulation, saying I HAVE to either! Give some jackass, in this country,who doesn't like metal detecting, or something else you're doing, and pretty soon you're voting on some stupid regulation or bylaw, that prohibits what you enjoy doing. That is the whole point.

This is my point also, you could avoid the Law by self governing. ie. give them the information (when your ready & without being asked, or just hold it with the object where ever it ends up), & all they can do is thank-you for it. If they throw it in your face, you have a reason not to bother.

 

[CRUSADER]

It is just an item if it can not be shown were it came from. Some are fine with that, some are not.

More information can be gained by GPS depth and so on. It can increase the value of an item also.

As already stated GPS can assist in a spread of material, and even identify good areas to go back over. It has other uses than just logging data. That data can be useful also.

This is a very good point. I'm a leading collector in a specialised market & I pay much more for provenance.

Thats why I don't judge those that want to sell, as it helps my collection, research, & future book. I just don't do it myself. I reward those that record honestly.

 

[hogge]

When you go changing your own "Code of Ethics", to be more stringent, someone can take these changes and apply even greater restrictions on them, just by the way they are worded. Then they turn around and say "See that...you're not following your own code of ethics". I prefer the K.I.S.S. factor---Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[hogge]

It is just an item if it can not be shown were it came from. Some are fine with that, some are not.

More information can be gained by GPS depth and so on. It can increase the value of an item also.

As already stated GPS can assist in a spread of material, and even identify good areas to go back over. It has other uses than just logging data. That data can be useful also.

So now that you found a relic....worth say $5,000...and made your GPS coordinants public, how are you going to feel seeing other people hunting out your spot, that you did the research on? The only reason they are there is to dig in your "goldmine". Ya...like that's going to happen in my world. Because that's what is going to happen wherever you are.

 

[CRUSADER]

When you go changing your own "Code of Ethics", to be more stringent, someone can take these changes and apply even greater restrictions on them, just by the way they are worded. Then they turn around and say "See that...you're not following your own code of ethics". I prefer the K.I.S.S. factor---Keep It Simple Stupid.

I follow the KISS principle, recording of location is a basic & incredibly simple thing to do. I will agree, that you need no ethic to tell you this, its common sence.

 

[CRUSADER]

It is just an item if it can not be shown were it came from. Some are fine with that, some are not.

More information can be gained by GPS depth and so on. It can increase the value of an item also.

As already stated GPS can assist in a spread of material, and even identify good areas to go back over. It has other uses than just logging data. That data can be useful also.

So now that you found a relic....worth say $5,000...and made your GPS coordinants public, how are you going to feel seeing other people hunting out your spot, that you did the research on? The only reason they are there is to dig in your "goldmine". Ya...like that's going to happen in my world. Because that's what is going to happen wherever you are.

Never happened to me & I recorded a £3500 relic($6000ish). Thats because the location info is protected. Don't you get it, if you work together, they will protect your interests as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hogge]

Who is THEY? In a perfect world, where everyone is honest...MAYBE this holds true. In the real world, there is lying, deceit, and covenance.

 

[Tnmountains]

I think if we abide by the code of ethics displayed here at Treasure-Net we will all be better for it.
I do not think we need to be so radical or self governing that we tear ourselves apart over a hobby. It is just a hobby maybe a passionate hobby but we should keep it fun and simple nevertheless.
Does not everyone see how ridiculous it would be to GPS a coin spill. Let alone start posting GPS coordinates,lol. I own and have owned many hand help GPS units. Problem is I already know where MY sites are located. I found them treasure hunting. Its the dream of everyone. Why give locations to people who are to lazy to get out and find their own litlle spot? This is ridiculous.

TnMountains

 

[CRUSADER]

Who is THEY? In a perfect world, where everyone is honest...MAYBE this holds true. In the real world, there is lying, deceit, and covenance.

'They' in this case are the civil service/Museum services. If they were to break my trust though any of the above then the information would stop. (other than those covered by UK Law). Never in all the years I have recorded have they broken my confidence. Your worries are based on fear, & maybe the odd bad egg. Why join the bad egg club?

 

[hogge]

I think if we abide by the code of ethics displayed here at Treasure-Net we will all be better for it.
I do not think we need to be so radical or self governing that we tear ourselves apart over a hobby. It is just a hobby maybe a passionate hobby but we should keep it fun and simple nevertheless.
Does not everyone see how ridiculous it would be to GPS a coin spill. Let alone start posting GPS coordinates,lol. I own and have owned many hand help GPS units. Problem is I already know where MY sites are located. I found them treasure hunting. Its the dream of everyone. Why give locations to people who are to lazy to get out and find their own litlle spot? This is ridiculous.

TnMountains

AWESOME reply. My interests are protected by keeping my mouth shut. When it comes to $ and my spots this is what I do. HUH...Too bad I can't keep my opinions to myself too , but it just doesn't work for me!