Please post your suggestions and comments!

[CRUSADER]

OK so we GPS our favorite civil war camp on private property and keep a log of the finds. Now who was it we are doing this for? I know where the spot is. Is that not enough? You all are not seriously thinking of sharing coordinates of our finds are you? lol Maybe I missed something?


TnMountains

All my GPSing in done on Private Land.

No its not enough for just you to know where the land is, if you are finding significant finds. Otherwise, when you die the information dies with you. Who are you to want to keep this to yourself. Do you not care about the history you are saving, because without context its a meaningless piece of metal!

I'm not saying that sharing this with just anyone is the way to go, & I understand Silver Searcher when he worries abouts sites being banned (even though this is rare in most cases).

The fact that you don't record is as much your lose as everyone elses. It has, since I started, double my find rate, so you would be crazy not to (IMHO).

I keep these maps, along with the farmers involved & we do not share them with the Archies until we need to. ie. the field is being developed into housing/road - in which case why protect the site that will soon be concreted.

The point of me having the maps is to bring a form of professionalism which makes future attacks on me pointless. I will never be accused of robbing the countryside of its information. However, you might be in the future which will bring curtain consequences.
You can all carry on being selfish & protecting your rights to do your will, but look where its getting you. I think we have struck the right balance in the UK & I have never been stopped from detecting any site & now the Archies are helping me find other good sites to do, they are sharing what they have & helping me. Does this happen over there?

This is not all aimed at you personally, as I respect you and your input to this site, but I read above some very sad views.

WE SHOULD ALL WANT TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORY FOR FUTURE STUDY. (or do we just want to flog it on ebay!)

 

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[CRUSADER]

Why can't some people just let sleeping dogs lie ? Or why do some people feel compelled to poke hornets nests ? When I was a kid I hated this one kid who every time he saw a bee or wasp nest he'd have to prove something by disturbing it either by poking it with sticks or throwing stones. We'd all laugh at him as he got stung time and again, at least until we found ourselves fighting off the onslaught of bee's or wasps. Who are these people who are so presumptuous as to feel they can or should speak for me and my Hobby. Was there an election for which I wasn't aware of ? Did I accidentally stumble into a club meeting for which I did not join ? Give me and MDing a break and butt out. You guys have no right to mess with my rights.

I AGREE WITH THIS! What the heck are you guys trying to do?!? It's almost like an engineer trying to fix or tweek something that doesn't NEED TO BE FIXED!!

This maybe because your interest is money.

You think trying to do things properly for the greater knowledge of future folk is bad, then on your heads be it. Your will never be convinced otherwise because you only think of yourself, & thats your right, I know!

 

[hogge]

OK so we GPS our favorite civil war camp on private property and keep a log of the finds. Now who was it we are doing this for? I know where the spot is. Is that not enough? You all are not seriously thinking of sharing coordinates of our finds are you? lol Maybe I missed something?


TnMountains

All my GPSing in done on Private Land.

No its not enough for just you to know where the land is, if you are finding significant finds. Otherwise, when you die the information dies with you. Who are you to want to keep this to yourself. Do you not care about the history you are saving, because without context its a meaningless piece of metal!

I'm not saying that sharing this with just anyone is the way to go, & I understand Silver Searcher when he worries abouts sites being banned (even though this is rare in most cases).

The fact that you don't record is as much your lose as everyone elses. It has, since I started, double my find rate, so you would be crazy not to (IMHO).

I keep these maps, along with the farmers involved & we do not share them with the Archies until we need to. ie. the field is being developed into housing/road - in which case why protect the site that will soon be concreted.

The point of me having the maps is to bring a form of professionalism which makes future attacks on me pointless. I will never be accused of robbing the countryside of its information. However, you might be in the future which will bring curtain consequences.
You can all carry on being selfish & protecting your rights to do your will, but look where its getting you. I think we have struck the right balance in the UK & I have never been stopped from detecting any site & now the Archies are helping me find other good sites to do, they are sharing what they have & helping me. Does this happen over there?

This is not all aimed at you personally, as I respect you and your input to this site, but I read above some very sad views.

WE SHOULD ALL WANT TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORY FOR FUTURE STUDY. (or do we just want to flog it on ebay!)

I don't know how it works over in the UK, but I know how it works over here. Once you start Re-writing laws or ethics codes, it opens the door for other "Groups" to interpret, or MISINTERPRET, what you were trying to say. One misplaced word in a law or code, can open the door for more restrictions. Kind of like when "your" government stepped in and confiscated ALL the firearms in England. Or don't you see anything wrong with that?

 

[CRUSADER]

Marc,

I think you are trying to run before you can walk. People are not seeing the benefits of doing proper recording, all they think is:
It takes time
Cost money (for GPS)
When I share a good spot, it will be raided by others, or banned by the authorites
etc...

Instead of asking people to share there best spots, which is highly unlikely, as not even I do that, & I consider myself forward thinking! What you need to encourage is proper record keeping of 'significant finds' & giving a definition of what a significant find is, ie the criteria. The record can be help by the detectorist for future study but doesn't need to be shared until they are ready or the site is going to be bulldozed.

However, this will give less ammunition to those trying to ban. You can show them all the Records & IDs & they will be impressed, instead of accusing you of losing its context & information. Which maybe of major interest to those in the future, let the people of the future be the judge of what 21st detectorist were like. Otherwise they will remember us as the ebay generation, with little regard for our own history, which we should all be proud of. (or we can make a fast buck!)

The MAJOR benefit to me is my find rate has gone through the roof, anyone who has followed my threads long enough will know.

It would also help to explain what is not required to record, ie clad in parks - this would mean the average hobbist is unaffected unless they get a fluke find.

Also, if people are worried about putting it in writing, then can they not agree to do it without having it spelt out. Lets be more subtle - lets start an underground movement of responsible historial researchers....(nothing in writing but all of the same mind & special hand shake)

 

[CRUSADER]

Why can't some people just let sleeping dogs lie ? Or why do some people feel compelled to poke hornets nests ? When I was a kid I hated this one kid who every time he saw a bee or wasp nest he'd have to prove something by disturbing it either by poking it with sticks or throwing stones. We'd all laugh at him as he got stung time and again, at least until we found ourselves fighting off the onslaught of bee's or wasps. Who are these people who are so presumptuous as to feel they can or should speak for me and my Hobby. Was there an election for which I wasn't aware of ? Did I accidentally stumble into a club meeting for which I did not join ? Give me and MDing a break and butt out. You guys have no right to mess with my rights.

I AGREE WITH THIS! What the heck are you guys trying to do?!? It's almost like an engineer trying to fix or tweek something that doesn't NEED TO BE FIXED!!

This maybe because your interest is money.

You think trying to do things properly for the greater knowledge of future folk is bad, then on your heads be it. Your will never be convinced otherwise because you only think of yourself, & thats your right, I know!

My interest, is "my" interest and none of your business or anyone elses. We certainly don't need brits telling us how to do it, what works for you in your country is fine for you. But leave our country alone as we don't have the same problems as you. Most MDers aren't digging up historical items, so we don't need more laws. All we need is less people sticking their noses out there for all of our noses to get bit off.

Explain to me then why you are posting on the WORLD WIDE WEB - if its just your interest?

 

[CRUSADER]

Why can't some people just let sleeping dogs lie ? Or why do some people feel compelled to poke hornets nests ? When I was a kid I hated this one kid who every time he saw a bee or wasp nest he'd have to prove something by disturbing it either by poking it with sticks or throwing stones. We'd all laugh at him as he got stung time and again, at least until we found ourselves fighting off the onslaught of bee's or wasps. Who are these people who are so presumptuous as to feel they can or should speak for me and my Hobby. Was there an election for which I wasn't aware of ? Did I accidentally stumble into a club meeting for which I did not join ? Give me and MDing a break and butt out. You guys have no right to mess with my rights.

I AGREE WITH THIS! What the heck are you guys trying to do?!? It's almost like an engineer trying to fix or tweek something that doesn't NEED TO BE FIXED!!

This maybe because your interest is money.

You think trying to do things properly for the greater knowledge of future folk is bad, then on your heads be it. Your will never be convinced otherwise because you only think of yourself, & thats your right, I know!

My interest, is "my" interest and none of your business or anyone elses. We certainly don't need brits telling us how to do it, what works for you in your country is fine for you. But leave our country alone as we don't have the same problems as you. Most MDers aren't digging up historical items, so we don't need more laws. All we need is less people sticking their noses out there for all of our noses to get bit off.

Explain to me then why you are posting on the WORLD WIDE WEB - if its just your interest?

I don't have to explain anything to you. If I choose to post anything on the world wide web what business is it of yours ? My interests are my business, not yours ! what do you not understand about that statement ?

Sadly, I totally understand your statement.

 

[Marc]

Why can't some people just let sleeping dogs lie ? Or why do some people feel compelled to poke hornets nests ? When I was a kid I hated this one kid who every time he saw a bee or wasp nest he'd have to prove something by disturbing it either by poking it with sticks or throwing stones. We'd all laugh at him as he got stung time and again, at least until we found ourselves fighting off the onslaught of bee's or wasps. Who are these people who are so presumptuous as to feel they can or should speak for me and my Hobby. Was there an election for which I wasn't aware of ? Did I accidentally stumble into a club meeting for which I did not join ? Give me and MDing a break and butt out. You guys have no right to mess with my rights.

Um, last time I checked, I am not God, nor am I a lawful authority. Nor am in anyway infringing on "your rights".

I do believe that TreasureNet needs to distance itself from "The Camper's Code of Ethics" and raise the bar in order to help bridge the gap between archaeology and treasure hunting.

If you want to continue following "The Camper's Code Of Ethics" that is fine by me! Just be aware, that TreasureNet no longer endorses it.

Have a nice day!

Marc Austin
[email protected]

p.s., we have updated the TreasureNet Treasure Hunter's Code Of Ethics.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/ethics

This is subject to change.

 

[CRUSADER]

Why can't some people just let sleeping dogs lie ? Or why do some people feel compelled to poke hornets nests ? When I was a kid I hated this one kid who every time he saw a bee or wasp nest he'd have to prove something by disturbing it either by poking it with sticks or throwing stones. We'd all laugh at him as he got stung time and again, at least until we found ourselves fighting off the onslaught of bee's or wasps. Who are these people who are so presumptuous as to feel they can or should speak for me and my Hobby. Was there an election for which I wasn't aware of ? Did I accidentally stumble into a club meeting for which I did not join ? Give me and MDing a break and butt out. You guys have no right to mess with my rights.

Um, last time I checked, I am not God, nor am I a lawful authority. Nor am in anyway infringing on "your rights".

I do believe that TreasureNet needs to distance itself from "The Camper's Code of Ethics" and raise the bar in order to help bridge the gap between archaeology and treasure hunting.

If you want to continue following "The Camper's Code Of Ethics" that is fine by me! Just be aware, that TreasureNet no longer endorses it.

Have a nice day!

Marc Austin
[email protected]

p.s., we have updated the TreasureNet Treasure Hunter's Code Of Ethics.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/ethics

This is subject to change.

I think you have made a bold & difficult decision, but the right one**. People are always resistant to change, & it will be a slow process, but if you educate those joining the hobby now (like I do), then they will know no different. They mostly follow my advice as they see the benefits & what I have collected by doing it right!

**Although maybe a step to far in some cases, to much to swallow for most, maybe some should be more passive, instead of in writing. ie. Lead by example etc...

 

[Marc]

Thanks for the feedback. Some people have said that I am "dictating" this new code of ethics. That couldn't be further from the truth. I am simply saying that the existing code of ethics was woefully inadequate for TreasureNet to endorse. TreasureNet is simply "promoting and endorsing" NOT DICTATING, this new standard.

I would also like to comment on this snide remark...

Why can't some people just let sleeping dogs lie

In the case of TreasureNet, this is NOT a sleeping dog. We catch flack from archaeologists AND treasure hunters almost every day. This is a rabid dog, and we are putting it down!

 

[lostcauses]

"I WILL strive to be an ambassador of my hobby and a good steward of the land."
Difficult wording. I am not an ambassador. Yet I do know my actions can effect others.

I WILL assist authorities and the public in the recovery of lost items when asked, and will make every effort to return marked items to their rightful owners.
Good.

"I WILL hunt private lands by permission only and obey the wishes of landowners."
Needs to be Private and public lands. I know folks will scream, yet there statements of just do it until you are told no, will get every one eventually banded from public areas, if it is not already. It is also totally unethical. No one would want some one to come on their private property and "do it until told no".

"I WILL obey the laws of my country, state, province, and local government, and will speak out against those laws which are unreasonable or unjust."
The first part is ok. The last part is interesting, yet unreasonable and unjust is questionable. I do know it is about laws that can assist the individual relic hunter need to be spoken about. Laws that can stop the relic hunter, that exist may also need to be dealt with. Your wording may be the way to do it. I will have to think on it a bit.


"I WILL obey all laws concerning protected archaeological sites, and the recovery and possession of artifacts from such sites."
Should be under the follow laws.

"I WILL report any significant historical discovery to the appropriate authorities and provide proper location information and documentation."
Good.

"I WILL be an advocate to advance the knowledge and technology of my hobby."
good.

And Marc, it is never an easy thing to do what you are doing, change is needed, but always resisted.

I would add one more:

Cover yourself before an act (hunting), it is way easier than trying to recover after, and trouble happens.

Needs reworded but it gets the idea across.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

lost-causes, you say: " "I WILL hunt private lands by permission" ........... Needs to be Private and public lands." I will agree with you on this, the minute you can tell me that ....... you would also "get permission" to fly a frisbee, skip stones on the pond, whistle dixie, hop backwards on one foot, etc... If you think those things need permission, that are not specifically (I guess) disallowed, then I would agree with you that we all need to ask permission to detect on public lands, where it is not specifically disallowed.

Re.: the "let sleeping dogs lie" issue: Marc, bull56, etc.... : I don't doubt that there are some hot-spots. But in most other areas, no one cares, no one has given the matter deep thought (so as to morph some cultural heritage wording to you & me). So why would we, in THOSE areas, think we need to put down this "rabid dog"? I can think of lots of areas where I hunt, and never hear "boo". But I bet if I kept asking long enough and far enough up the chain-of-command (and be sure to have a contract for them to sign, a shovel in my hand, etc...), I certainly would find someone to tell me "no". THAT is the fear of those who ...... aren't facing any issues where they're at, and ..... prefer to keep it that way.

 

[lostcauses]

Yes we know you don't want to ask. Yet do you let your, or other kids go dig up the lawn?
Simple do you mind some one coming on YOUR property and digging with out permission??

Pointless to argue this with me.

You do not want some one coming on your property with out permission,
Yet you use the excuse, "others go on public property to play Frisbee, etc." So I can go on and dig and take lost items to keep for my self. Like comparing rocks to apples man.

I suspect if you did go and read the laws out there, some will already say no, just not directly to metal detecting. It will be to digging, destroying the land scape, reporting and turning in lost items. You have by the method you use, chose to ignore the ideas of ethics to know and obey the law.

You use the do the act and when confronted hope for the best. So far it seems to have worked for you.

You are partially right in that by your method it does not get the attention of the authority. Yet to do so you break down the basic simple rule of ask for permission before doing anything that could be considered damaging to property.

lost-causes, you say: " "I WILL hunt private lands by permission" ........... Needs to be Private and public lands." I will agree with you on this, the minute you can tell me that ....... you would also "get permission" to fly a frisbee, skip stones on the pond, whistle dixie, hop backwards on one foot, etc... If you think those things need permission, that are not specifically (I guess) disallowed, then I would agree with you that we all need to ask permission to detect on public lands, where it is not specifically disallowed.

Re.: the "let sleeping dogs lie" issue: Marc, bull56, etc.... : I don't doubt that there are some hot-spots. But in most other areas, no one cares, no one has given the matter deep thought (so as to morph some cultural heritage wording to you & me). So why would we, in THOSE areas, think we need to put down this "rabid dog"? I can think of lots of areas where I hunt, and never hear "boo". But I bet if I kept asking long enough and far enough up the chain-of-command (and be sure to have a contract for them to sign, a shovel in my hand, etc...), I certainly would find someone to tell me "no". THAT is the fear of those who ...... aren't facing any issues where they're at, and ..... prefer to keep it that way.

 

[CRUSADER]

Yes we know you don't want to ask. Yet do you let your, or other kids go dig up the lawn?
Simple do you mind some one coming on YOUR property and digging with out permission??

Pointless to argue this with me.

You do not want some one coming on your property with out permission,
Yet you use the excuse, "others go on public property to play Frisbee, etc." So I can go on and dig and take lost items to keep for my self. Like comparing rocks to apples man.

I suspect if you did go and read the laws out there, some will already say no, just not directly to metal detecting. It will be to digging, destroying the land scape, reporting and turning in lost items. You have by the method you use, chose to ignore the ideas of ethics to know and obey the law.

You use the do the act and when confronted hope for the best. So far it seems to have worked for you.

You are partially right in that by your method it does not get the attention of the authority. Yet to do so you break down the basic simple rule of ask for permission before doing anything that could be considered damaging to property.

lost-causes, you say: " "I WILL hunt private lands by permission" ........... Needs to be Private and public lands." I will agree with you on this, the minute you can tell me that ....... you would also "get permission" to fly a frisbee, skip stones on the pond, whistle dixie, hop backwards on one foot, etc... If you think those things need permission, that are not specifically (I guess) disallowed, then I would agree with you that we all need to ask permission to detect on public lands, where it is not specifically disallowed.

Re.: the "let sleeping dogs lie" issue: Marc, bull56, etc.... : I don't doubt that there are some hot-spots. But in most other areas, no one cares, no one has given the matter deep thought (so as to morph some cultural heritage wording to you & me). So why would we, in THOSE areas, think we need to put down this "rabid dog"? I can think of lots of areas where I hunt, and never hear "boo". But I bet if I kept asking long enough and far enough up the chain-of-command (and be sure to have a contract for them to sign, a shovel in my hand, etc...), I certainly would find someone to tell me "no". THAT is the fear of those who ...... aren't facing any issues where they're at, and ..... prefer to keep it that way.

totally agree, ignorance is no excuse...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Lost causes, if you think that your hobby is "destroying the vegetation", and thus md'rs are guilty of breaking laws if they don't have express permission, then all I can say is, you are in the wrong hobby. Because unless you intend to only pick up coins on top of the grass (that require no digging or probing of any sort), then you will always loose the debate of whether or not you are "destryong" property. The mere fact of a digger or prober/screwdriver in your hand, can be deemed to be proof that you can/will destroy sod and kill earthworms, etc.....

No, I don't believe I'm "destroying" vegetation, if I pack it back down, ruffle it up, and you can't even tell I was there. Sure, someone can come along and gripe otherwise. There's always someone to gripe about anything in this life! Why do you let kill-joys dictate your life? It's no different than if someone flips you off in traffic, because he didn't like a lane change maneuver you just made. Does that make you stop driving? Does his flipping you off automatically mean he is right about driving, and you should stay home and never drive again without his permission?

 

[CRUSADER]

OK so we GPS our favorite civil war camp on private property and keep a log of the finds. Now who was it we are doing this for? I know where the spot is. Is that not enough? You all are not seriously thinking of sharing coordinates of our finds are you? lol Maybe I missed something?


TnMountains

All my GPSing in done on Private Land.

No its not enough for just you to know where the land is, if you are finding significant finds. Otherwise, when you die the information dies with you. Who are you to want to keep this to yourself. Do you not care about the history you are saving, because without context its a meaningless piece of metal!

I'm not saying that sharing this with just anyone is the way to go, & I understand Silver Searcher when he worries abouts sites being banned (even though this is rare in most cases).

The fact that you don't record is as much your lose as everyone elses. It has, since I started, double my find rate, so you would be crazy not to (IMHO).

I keep these maps, along with the farmers involved & we do not share them with the Archies until we need to. ie. the field is being developed into housing/road - in which case why protect the site that will soon be concreted.

The point of me having the maps is to bring a form of professionalism which makes future attacks on me pointless. I will never be accused of robbing the countryside of its information. However, you might be in the future which will bring curtain consequences.
You can all carry on being selfish & protecting your rights to do your will, but look where its getting you. I think we have struck the right balance in the UK & I have never been stopped from detecting any site & now the Archies are helping me find other good sites to do, they are sharing what they have & helping me. Does this happen over there?

This is not all aimed at you personally, as I respect you and your input to this site, but I read above some very sad views.

WE SHOULD ALL WANT TO PRESERVE OUR HISTORY FOR FUTURE STUDY. (or do we just want to flog it on ebay!)

I don't know how it works over in the UK, but I know how it works over here. Once you start Re-writing laws or ethics codes, it opens the door for other "Groups" to interpret, or MISINTERPRET, what you were trying to say. One misplaced word in a law or code, can open the door for more restrictions. Kind of like when "your" government stepped in and confiscated ALL the firearms in England. Or don't you see anything wrong with that?

So, lets get to the point. Are you against, the proper recording of significant historial items? or are you against writing down rules?

There are very tight rules about digging the Thames Foreshore & until recently I believed it was the 3 inch rule. ie no digging over 3 inches. However, this is all changed by the National Council for Metal Detecting (NCMD), lobbying the authorities & we can now dig to the bottom of the hardpack riverbed. This shows how a organisation which prides itself in having Law obiding members can over turn unfair rules!

Do nothing or fighting back is not the way to go. Take the initative & be one step ahead is your best option.
The Portable Antiquities Scheme in the UK was thought to be a joke when it started, everyone said, 'why would I volenteer to record an items location when the Law doesn't exist to force me'. It is now so popular now that it can not keep up with the thousands of things being brought in all of the time. It's a huge successful NATIONAL RESOURSE for all to use, locations are blanked out!

Why would you have issue over any of this?

 

[CRUSADER]

Marc & others,

http://www.ukdfd.co.uk/

Study the above. Its an in dependant website, like ours which record stuff using expert IDers, & also the location etc...

It promotes good practice, & it has many highly successful detectorist, who are not put off by doing things right!

 

[CRUSADER]

lost-causes, you say: " "I WILL hunt private lands by permission" ........... Needs to be Private and public lands." I will agree with you on this, the minute you can tell me that ....... you would also "get permission" to fly a frisbee, skip stones on the pond, whistle dixie, hop backwards on one foot, etc... If you think those things need permission, that are not specifically (I guess) disallowed, then I would agree with you that we all need to ask permission to detect on public lands, where it is not specifically disallowed.

Re.: the "let sleeping dogs lie" issue: Marc, bull56, etc.... : I don't doubt that there are some hot-spots. But in most other areas, no one cares, no one has given the matter deep thought (so as to morph some cultural heritage wording to you & me). So why would we, in THOSE areas, think we need to put down this "rabid dog"? I can think of lots of areas where I hunt, and never hear "boo". But I bet if I kept asking long enough and far enough up the chain-of-command (and be sure to have a contract for them to sign, a shovel in my hand, etc...), I certainly would find someone to tell me "no". THAT is the fear of those who ...... aren't facing any issues where they're at, and ..... prefer to keep it that way.

I know many nighthawkers with the same attitude. But I have secured most of the land in my area by doing things properly & they are left with the scraps,,,

 

[lostcauses]

Tom_in_CA Thanks for reminding me the what the first statement about any relic hunting should be

It is not a right: it is a privilege. If this privilege is abused, the authority will most likely be forced to ban it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If this privilege is abused, the authority will most likely be forced to ban it.

Right. And since you and I aren't "abusing" it, then we have no need to fear bannings. Well said!

 

[lostcauses]

Works for both of us. I belive we found a solution,
Great.

If this privilege is abused, the authority will most likely be forced to ban it.

Right. And since you and I aren't "abusing" it, then we have no need to fear bannings. Well said!