Pirate Treasure-Trying to get a permit to dig up

[Bigdogdad]

I decided to show a couple more pictures. Here is a picture ourView attachment 959353 dog Bud winning Best-of-Breed at the prestigious Westminster Kennel Club show at Madison Square Garden in New York. An Owner/Breeder/Handler win is about as good as it gets in the dog world.

Here is a recent pic of me with a couple of our boys at the Eukanuba Classic Invitational dog show in Orlando this past December. We were there to represent the Old English Mastiff breed as part of a meet the breed exhibition. Our booth won first place.View attachment 959354


What the heck, here is a pic of my 'Hot Air Band". I built the guitars and wrote one of our songs.View attachment 959356 I am "Skyyd Marx".


This is my 57 Chevy that I run at Sebring. It keeps up with Ferrari's and Viper's. I built it myself.View attachment 959358

I just wanted to show that there is more to my life than digging empty holes.

 

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[Bigdogdad]

The Fowler's Bluff "find" was shown to be a hoax. I believe BDD knows a bit about that site.

Just to keep the record straight here are the facts as I saw them. There were two digs. One was at the Todd property and the other was at the restaurant. According to Tommy he witnessed the gold coming out of the shaft that was dug into the limestone. The limestone was more or less a honeycomb of holes and it is believed that most of the gold is inaccessible. This dig occurred over a period of about six years and was spearheaded by a guy from Germany. The picture on here of the crane was from that dig. Some of the culvert and other stuff is still in Tommy's yard.

The other and more current dig that ECS mentioned occurred at the restaurant and it is believed to be more of a publicity stunt to bring in customer's. This may be the hoax vor is referring to. It certainly seemed to work for awhile. I checked out where they were digging. It was right on the bank of the river. I would not want to have been involved in it.

 

[vor]

Inaccessible. Sheets of gold on the drill bit?
Or was that the dog and pony show story?

 

[ECS]

Inaccessible. Sheets of gold on the drill bit?
...

There is ALWAYS a story and a reason when treasure that is "there" is never recovered!
Makes for great lore,and will create the treasure hunts of the future.

 

[ECS]

Yeah ECS, thanks for bringing us all down to earth again. All that gold dust clinging to the divers
went to my head.

This is the source of that version:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/03/070315-pirate-treasure.html

 

[Bigdogdad]

Inaccessible. Sheets of gold on the drill bit? Or was that the dog and pony show story?

Since you don't really seem to know the full story, what do you think the motive was for this dig to go on over a period of many years? Why were thousands upon thousands of dollars spent and lives risked? You and ECS get my vote for the "MOST NEGATIVE GUYS ON TREASURENET". lastleg-You are going to have to try a little harder if you are going to keep up with the "Initial Duo". They have got the "tag team" criticism down to a science.

 

[Bigdogdad]

This is the source of that version: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/03/070315-pirate-treasure.html

Wouldn't load. You read second-hand and third-hand accounts. I talk to the people that were there. As usual you are certainly free to believe what you don't want to.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

Keep Your Powder Dry

View attachment 959412​

Keep your powder dry BBD. I will try to post something tomorrow about the Fowlers Bluff deal.

 

[Bigdogdad]

It does seem to be a bit coincidental that many of the west coast of Florida pirate tales of buried treasure emerged during the 1880-90's period.

This probably has a lot to do with the fact that newspapers came into prominence as a source for stories to emerge. A lot of "researchers" get their information from them. As with anything else that has been written it is hard to tell fact from fiction. Do you think that because you can't find older written stories of pirate chests (actually I think barrels would work better) that they did not exist and were not found? If a tree fell in the forest and no one heard it, did it actually fall?

 

[ECS]

Wouldn't load. You read second-hand and third-hand accounts. I talk to the people that were there...

It will now load,and as usual,your assumptions concerning my research are wrong.
I just do not accept everything I hear at face value,even those who relate first hand accounts are apt to embellish and exaggerate the story,and their part in it.

 

[vor]

You and ECS get my vote for the "MOST NEGATIVE GUYS ON TREASURENET".

BDD
Thanks for your vote. However I prefer to call it "realistic" and not "negative". In regards to Fowler's, if Tommy were telling the truth why is it he can't produce the evidence (sheet of gold on the drill bit)? Oh, maybe he just threw it in the trash.

I think that the NatGeo article link that ECS posted may not open unless you are logged in to their server. I'll post it below. Notice the article title includes "Treasure Hunters Claim".
,
Clues to Pirate Gold Unearthed in Florida, Treasure Hunters Claim

Willie Drye in Fowler's Bluff, Florida
for National Geographic News

March 15, 2007

Treasure hunters digging on a remote bluff overlooking Florida's Suwannee River claim they have found tantalizing evidence that pirate gold might be at the bottom of a muddy, 13-foot (4-meter) hole.

"We've found mahogany wood samples, flecks of gold, and gold all over the diver's dive suit [after diving in the hole]," said Tommy Todd, a St. Petersburg landscaper who owns the property being excavated.

Workers drilling at the site said they also found a sheet of gold wrapped around the drill bit when they withdrew it. Todd was not immediately able to show evidence of these finds.

"We know there's something down there," he said.

Todd and his partners, whom he declined to name, may be closing in on a treasure that—according to local lore—was buried in the area some 200 years ago by Jean LaFitte.

LaFitte roamed the Gulf of Mexico in the early 19th century as a smuggler and privateer, though he reportedly described himself an entrepreneur and defender of American freedom.

The spot near Fowler's Bluff, about 15 miles (24 kilometers) upriver from where the Suwannee meets the Gulf, was a likely hangout for LaFitte and such notorious colleagues as Jose Gaspar, Billy "Bowlegs" Rogers, and Black Caesar (see map of the Suwannee River).

Todd thinks LaFitte may have left treasure chests on the property.

"We're close to it," Todd said. "There are some interesting things going on. Our goal is to wrap up this year."

Excavations "For Years and Years"

Whatever might be at the bottom of the hole, pulling it out will be tricky.

Beneath the mushy, silt-laden soil lies a "Swiss cheese honeycomb" of limestone, Todd said.

If there is treasure down there, it's slowly settling deeper, Todd said. The earlier drilling may have burst the treasure chest and scattered its contents into the ooze, he added.

The property is several hundred feet from where three or four previous excavations were made. Until 2000 that land was owned by Bill Wise, who operated a small waterfront bar there.
Having heard the lore of LaFitte's gold, Wise and a Baptist minister used a metal detector to make several futile searches for the treasure. Wise sold the property in 2000, in part because he grew tired of treasure seekers knocking on his door.

He told National Geographic News he didn't really expect to find buried loot on his former property.

"It was a good advertisement thing for the bar, but I never put much faith in [finding the treasure]," he said. "I knew all these people had been trying for years and years."

Hidden in Gainesville Mansion?

The stories of previous searches are shrouded in legend and secrecy, but at least one early treasure hunter, a sawmill operator named Emmett Baird, may have struck gold on the land Wise once owned.

In June 1945 The Saturday Evening Post published a story about the lore of the Suwannee's pirate gold.

In 1897, the story said, a dying old man whom Baird had befriended gave him a map that prompted Baird and his business partner to hasten down to the Suwannee.

After three months of excavations at Fowler's Bluff, Baird announced that he was abandoning the dig.

But his behavior led some to believe that he may have pulled something out of the hole. Baird soon began investing in businesses in Gainesville, including a bank and a hardware store that became one of the largest in Florida (see map of Florida).

In 1900 he also bought one of Gainesville's finest mansions. Speculation that Baird had used LaFitte's treasure to make these investments swirled around him for the rest of his life.

So did stories that he'd hidden some of the gold on his Gainesville property.

Today Baird's home is a bed-and-breakfast owned by Cindy and Joe Montaldo. Like Bill Wise at Fowler's Bluff, they've had people knocking on their door asking about LaFitte's treasure. One such visitor was the home's previous owner, who told the couple that he had searched the house for the legendary gold. He claimed that he and a friend had scanned one of the fireplaces with a metal detector, and the device "went crazy," Cindy Montaldo said.

"He and his friend looked at each other, then they both started destroying the fireplace," she said.

All they found, however, was a large piece of scrap iron that had been used in constructing the fireplace.

Lost Lore

The Montaldos bought the house in 1990 and began extensive renovations that included removing all the old walls. They didn't find any treasure.

Local historian Melanie Barr told the couple that she'd found nothing to substantiate the story that Baird had bought the house with pirate's treasure.

Even Baird's descendants are divided on the treasure tale, with one group saying he found treasure and another saying he didn't.

The world may never know whether Emmett Baird hauled a fortune away from the Suwannee, or whether Jean LaFitte ever left anything there at all.

But Tommy Todd said he hopes to announce the results of his treasure search by this fall.

"It's time for those damn pirates to give it up," Todd said.

 

[Salvor6]

ECS I helped take care of Dr. L. Frank Hudson before he died. Hudson was an archaeologist that worked with Dr. Manson Valentine at the U. of Miami. He was spurned by the academic archies for his treasure hunting activities. Hudson was contacted by a man from Lakeland (I forgot his name) about the Rocky Bluff area. Hudson agreed to help him. They went there in the summer of 1968 (I don't know the exact date) and the man dug up a pirate treasure chest. I don't know what the contents of the chest was and neither did Frank but this man send him a gold eight escudo coin. Frank was an eye witness to the recovery.

You said you read about 3 silver bars being found in the 1960's. Would you please tell where you read this? Who found the bars? Do you have a closer date of the recovery? Where are the bars now and what kind of markings on the bars identifies it from the 1800's?

 

[vor]

I don't know what the contents of the chest was and neither did Frank....Frank was an eye witness to the recovery.

Salvor
Good to have your first hand information. I wonder why didn't Frank hang around long enough to see what was in the chest. Since you referred to the chest as a "pirate chest", there must have been something in/on it to identify its origin.

 

[Bigdogdad]

BDD Thanks for your vote. However I prefer to call it "realistic" and not "negative". In regards to Fowler's, if Tommy were telling the truth why is it he can't produce the evidence (sheet of gold on the drill bit)? Oh, maybe he just threw it in the trash.

Put whatever spin on your attitude that you want. The comment about throwing the gold in the trash is a perfect example of your negative style. A newspaper reporter did not get to see any of the gold so you are basically implying Tommy is a liar and making it all up. Vor-Cash in some of your own gold and go out and buy yourself a better attitude.

I met Tommy in person and have talked quite a bit about the whole affair including many things not in some newspaper article. Keep in mind that whenever you or ECS quote your so called "facts" that you get from a newspaper you are only showing a lack of understanding of how often the reporters get things wrong.

Salvor6-We are both pretty much wasting our time dealing with vor/ECS. They are experts at this.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

View attachment 959728​

Well men. I have concluded that it would not be prudent for me to post my complete research
on the spot near Fowler's Bluff. If I were asked, my advice to BDD in this instance would to listen
to what ECS is laying down if he can stop talking botany.
ECS could have dug deeper (no pun intended) at this point tho.

BDD: Take it easy, don't let the sound of your own wheels keep you awake at night. Remember, we don't KNOW what we don't KNOW. However, if we do not question what we believe we KNOW, we may never KNOW.

By the way BDD are you certain it was Tommy Todd you spoke with on your 2012 trip to the dig site? If so, how certain are you of that?

 

[vor]

I met Tommy in person and have talked quite a bit about the whole affair including many things not in some newspaper article.

Then I guess you saw the sheet of gold wrapped around the drill bit and then some.

 

[Bigdogdad]

View attachment 959728​

Well men. I have concluded that it would not be prudent for me to post my complete research on the spot near Fowler's Bluff. If I were asked, my advice to BDD in this instance would to listen to what ECS is laying down if he can stop talking botany. ECS could have dug deeper (no pun intended) at this point tho. BDD: Take it easy, don't let the sound of your own wheels keep you awake at night. Remember, we don't KNOW what we don't KNOW. However, if we do not question what we believe we KNOW, we may never KNOW. By the way BDD are you certain it was Tommy Todd you spoke with on your 2012 trip to the dig site? If so, how certain are you of that?

It was Tommy's house. Tommy's wife. He matched the picture on his business card. He answers the phone at his business in St. Pete. He told me he was Tommy. I was going to get him to take a lie detector test, a DNA test, and then try to force him to give me a urine and blood sample. But the truth was I am pretty certain it was Tommy Todd I was dealing with, why do you ask?

 

[vor]

Tommy will not be happy when he find out somebody has been at his house, with his wife and answering his business phone.

 

[ECS]

Salvor
Good to have your first hand information. I wonder why didn't Frank hang around long enough to see what was in the chest. Since you referred to the chest as a "pirate chest", there must have been something in/on it to identify its origin.

Have you noticed that many of these tales the "chest" and other items of substance that could confirm existence of said treasure, always seem to disappear,with only the story remaining as "PROOF" that a find was actually made?
Some here claim the news articles get things wrong while accepting hearsay evidence as absolute proof.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

Vor and ECS:Behave Children

View attachment 959823

Vor and ECS. Have you two noticed that you are behaving like children?​