Pirate Treasure-Trying to get a permit to dig up

[Bigdogdad]

I can just see it now. Bigdogdad drills a one inch diameter core hole and 15 minutes later the entire northbound span of the bridge collapses! You should find a soft spot where my boys dug down 5 feet. I told them to fill in the hole.

Your "boys" may have told you they dug down 5 feet. Do you believe everything you are told? I went to the "dig site" as soon as I heard about this half-assed attempt. They did not dig down 5 feet. I have found that whenever you have guys and numbers they have a tendency to exaggerate. Now I also heard that the metal detector was still reading metal at a depth deeper than what was dug. What would that tell you?

 

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[Bigdogdad]

Surely you were more than a bit curious as to why they were performing this work. If you didn't find out, what's your thoughts? View attachment 958131

Of course I was curious. After watching them over a period of a couple of days, I decided to talk to them. They were hired to look for "stuff". They had a hard time digging into the ground. They don't call the area Rocky Bluff for nothing. I informed them there were rumors of treasure being buried in the area. They asked me to show them where I thought it was. I almost did, but I didn't. Salvor6 claims a 5 foot hole was dug by hand in the area in just a few hours. I watched the pros operate there sucking/digging truck. It took them 2 days to do the 7 foot deep hole shown in the above picture.

As far as my thoughts? I knew that after I informed the FDOT regime about what I wanted to do and then they turned me down, it would be no surprise if somebody connected with the "officials" would see that an attempt would be made to look for what might be there. I also think it is all pretty hilarious.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Here is something I found hilarious. Quite a while back it was claimed that someone digging at the possible treasure spot found copper wire. I remember Salvor6 claiming that maybe the "6 foot diameter" copper wire caused a "tesla effect" and made the metal detector read as if there was a big pile of non-ferrous metal. I went by the site the next day and found the discarded wire lying next to where the approximately one and a half foot at best, hole had been dug. Not only was the hole poorly filled in but as all true treasure hunters know, you take any trash you find while digging with you. You don't throw it on the ground and leave it there. Anyone that has read this very long thread will know what I am talking about when it comes to the copper wire theory. Here is a picture of the wire. View attachment 958288 Six foot long? Six foot diameter? Give me a break!

 

[vor]

I knew that after I informed the FDOT regime about what I wanted to do and then they turned me down, it would be no surprise if somebody connected with the "officials" would see that an attempt would be made to look for what might be there. I also think it is all pretty hilarious.

So a rogue employee of FDOT took your info and dug on their own? Pretty stout accusation. Especially given the fact that you showed several others the exact spot and had a newspaper publish an article showing the approximate location. Not to mention all of the information given out on this site.

But the spot that was excavated does resemble your description of the silver being buried under a limestone ledge.

V

 

[lastleg]

They are too wily to use a paid employee > paper trail. My guess, and it's only that: FDOT hired an
"enviro-simulated" outfit to (1) explore for the treasure chest (2) find the extent of the limestone
ledge (3) calculate costs to search the entire bluff.
A wily treasure hunter would make use of all of their drilled holes to lower a mag after pulling out
the refill. He would do this in the moonlight, not to be sneaky, but take advantage of lower temps.

 

[vor]

Maybe FDOT is locating soil layers between limestone to fill with concrete. Will stabilize the bridge and keep pesky THers out their office.

 

[Bigdogdad]

vor-I am not accusing anyone in particular of doing anything wrong. The location is in an area where anyone is free to come and go as they please. There are no signs up anywhere in the area. It is not my treasure, assuming there is even anything to be found at this particular spot. I took a chance blabbing about it. I have yet to see anybody do a serious dig (official or not) at the spot. I knew from when one of the guys back 20 plus years ago attempted to stick a shovel in the ground, that it would not be a very easy dig.

I think that someone a long time ago may have found a spot where they could dig under the limestone shelf and then hid the silver under this protective layer. It makes sense to me and I have heard of other treasures being hidden this way.

vor-Come on down to Florida and I will show you the spot. You have been giving advice on how to do this so you are welcome to put your shovel where your mouth is. Heck, I will loan you my drill. Reread this thread. It is full of advice on how to sneak in there. Go for it. I want no part of it.

 

[ECS]

LET US RETURN TO THE DAYS OF YESTERYEAR...

...

I think that someone a long time ago may have found a spot where they could dig under the limestone shelf and then hid the silver under this protective layer...

The origin of buried treasure tales at Rocky Bluff can be traced to two sources.
The Egmont Key lighthouse keeper from 1878-1910,Capt Charles Moore ,would spin the tale of pirate Pascual Miguel,who would use Rocky Bluff as a lookout point,and was said to have buried treasure there.Miguel is also known for the capture of young beautiful Charlotta,her death,and the legend of the "singing river".
A resident of Ellenton,and friend of Moore,Dudley Patton,told a tale in 1892 of an unmarked black schooner that sailed up the Manatee River,and set anchor for the night,near a boulder that had a carving of a sailing ship upon it.The residence of Ellenton were awoken in the the middle of the night by a large explosion.The next morning,Patton,with a couple of his neighbors made their way to the boulder site at Rocky Bluff.The black schooner was gone,the boulder was shattered,and in its place was a square hole,as if something was removed.
So there is the origin of the story...a legend,lore,tall tale,or a true account?

 

[Bigdogdad]

ECS-I never heard those particular stories until joining TNET. Legend, lore, tall tale, myth, none of that matters to me as much as finding treasure where others have left it. How each of us decides, if ever, as to where we think we should look, is to each his own. Some guys such as the ones on Gold Rush are looking for gold where Mother Nature has left it. I'm looking for gold/silver that others have possessed and then lost or left hidden. It's a fact that it is out there. It is just a matter of trying to find a way to decide where to look.

My methods may seem a little unconventional to some. So far I do not have much to show for all the holes I have dug. Actually pretty much all I have is a bunch of junk. It is part of my learning process. I have a way of figuring things out. Treasure finding has been the hardest thing I have ever tried to do. I have AADD (adult attention deficit disorder). I am constantly going in many different directions at once. I am trying to pick one direction and keep going in a straight line until I reach my target. One thing I can assure you is that I will succeed.

The other day I went by five different sites where I think treasure is buried. They all had a backhoe or track hoes sitting within 75 feet of the exact spots. I know it is all coincidences but it is about to drive me crazy. BTW-I will be attending the annual treasure hunters barbecue this year on the east coast. You can read about it at the top of the shipwreck forum. Everyone is welcome. It is on April 26. See you there.

 

[ECS]

ECS I will answer your questions. Do I believe there are silver bars buried at Rocky Bluff? Yes. Why? Well first of all it is a documented pirate camp site. Second, there was a treasure chest recovered from that site in 1968...

Salvor6,we have heard the "documented pirate site" rant before,I have provided the origin of that tale.
You state a treasure chest was recovered in 1968-can you document this?Who,When,and what was actualy recovered?
I have read that 3 silver bars were found in this area during the 1960's with marking from the 1800's,but have never read about a chest.Please provide the details,or is this just an embellishment on the 3 bars?

 

[Bigdogdad]

Salvor6,we have heard the "documented pirate site" rant before,I have provided the origin of that tale.

Nobody is ranting about this being a documented pirate site. It is a FACT. You get your info about Rocky Bluff by reading things on the internet. I have lived in the area since I was 12 years old and I am now 58. I have heard plenty of first hand accounts of pirate type stuff being found on this site, some of it when the interstate was being built. These stories don't always reach the newspapers or create any other written account. Don't assume that because you can't find this info on your computer that these events did not happen.

This site is only about one mile from the Gamble mansion that you have mentioned many times when talking about the Civil War. Those events transpired in the 1860's. Hernando Desoto landed just down the river from there in the 1500's. 1860 minus 1500's equals well over 300 YEARS of activity in this stretch of the river on the south side of Tampa Bay. I just don't think you realize the amount of gold/silver that passed thru this area. All I usually mention is a possible pile of bars/coins in one specific spot right in the middle of all this past activity. Why you find it so hard to accept all this is beyond my understanding.

 

[ECS]

BDD,using DeSoto (DeSoto came through Marion county,set his dogs loose on the Ocali tribe,and his campsite was recently diccovered at Orange Springs not far from CSA Capt J J Dickinson's plantation),300 years,"well known pirate camp"is a synthetic statement,factual information to support ones supposition.Salvor6,made the statement that a pirate chest was discovered at Rocky Bluff in 1968,I only asked if he could provide any details or facts on his statement,as you are well aware,this could be just another tale of lore.
Now you constantly assume that my knowledge comes for the internet-when I can,I will post a link to confirm my posts or to provide additional information on the subject being discussed.
As for you having lived in your area since you were 12,is really not germane to the discussion.I have lived in my area since I was 10,and have at least 8 years on you.Is that important to this dialogue? I think not.
You claim that I don't realize how much gold/silver passed through this area-do you really know beyond the legends,lore and tall tales that have permeated Florida's "treasure history".
Now,about that 1968 pirate chest discovery statement made by Salvor6...

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

View attachment 959160​

Hello ECS: Would you happen to know the outcome of the 2007 dig near Crescent City, Fl.
"Treasure hunters digging on a remote bluff overlooking Florida's Suwannee River claim they have
found tantalizing evidence that pirate gold might be at the bottom of a muddy, 13-foot (4-meter)
hole."

"We've found mahogany wood samples, flecks of gold, and gold all over the diver's dive suit [after
diving in the hole]," said Tommy Todd, a St. Petersburg landscaper who owns the property being
excavated."

Workers drilling at the site said they also found a sheet of gold wrapped around the drill bit when
they withdrew it. Todd was not immediately able to show evidence of these finds.

"We know there's something down there," he said.

Todd and his partners, whom he declined to name, may be closing in on a treasure that—according to local lore—was buried in the area some 200 years ago by Jean LaFitte.
LaFitte roamed the Gulf of Mexico in the early 19th century as a smuggler and privateer, though he
reportedly described himself an entrepreneur and defender of American freedom.

The spot near Fowler's Bluff, about 15 miles (24 kilometers) upriver from where the Suwannee meets the Gulf, was a likely hangout for LaFitte and such notorious colleagues as Jose Gaspar, Billy
"Bowlegs" Rogers, and Black Caesar.

Todd thinks LaFitte may have left treasure chests on the property.
"We're close to it," Todd said. "There are some interesting things going on. Our goal is to wrap up
this year."

 

[Bigdogdad]

BDD,using DeSoto (DeSoto came through Marion county,set his dogs loose on the Ocali tribe,and his campsite was recently diccovered at Orange Springs not far from CSA Capt J J Dickinson's plantation),300 years,"well known pirate camp"is a synthetic statement,factual information to support ones supposition.Salvor6,made the statement that a pirate chest was discovered at Rocky Bluff in 1968,I only asked if he could provide any details or facts on his statement,as you are well aware,this could be just another tale of lore. Now you constantly assume that my knowledge comes for the internet-when I can,I will post a link to confirm my posts or to provide additional information on the subject being discussed. As for you having lived in your area since you were 12,is really not germane to the discussion.I have lived in my area since I was 10,and have at least 8 years on you.Is that important to this dialogue? I think not. You claim that I don't realize how much gold/silver passed through this area-do you really know beyond the legends,lore and tall tales that have permeated Florida's "treasure history". Now,about that 1968 pirate chest discovery statement made by Salvor6...

Speaking of Desoto and his dogs. Did you know that he had English Mastiffs with him on their quest for gold? I do know a little about all this. Here is a picture of me and a couple of my dogs. On this particular day we led the Desoto landing re-enactment as part of the Desoto "Celebration". View attachment 959189

I believe I may know quite a bit about the whole Desoto saga. He may have killed his first Indians on the property that I used to own. None of this matters as it is not "germane" to the story of Rocky Bluff other than to emphasize that you have no idea what I may know and what my experience is.

Salvor6 told you he would be glad to tell you the details of the pirate chest. All you have to do is come to the TH barbecue. Need a ride?

The part about me having lived in the area is not germane to the discussion? Really? Why not? I have heard first-hand accounts of "items" being found on or near the site. For the record what is the "discussion" about. It does not really matter to me at all how many pirates, buccaneers, sailors, seamen, privateers, thieves, rascals, opportunists, traders, Conquistadors, or whoever may have passed thru and/or stayed in the general area of Rocky Bluff. My contention is that there is a large area that has some sort of non-ferrous metal buried and that nobody has figured out what it is. All your "straw man" posturing is nothing more than a distraction.

While looking for treasure I try to dig holes. That is how I will find it.

 

[ECS]

Crescent City is in Putnam county on the east coast and the 19th century riverboat Aligator was discovered in Crescent Lake about two years ago.
Fowlers Bluff is in Levy county on the Suwannee River on the west coast,and I believe that is the dig you are referencing.
The last dig was conducted by Norman Scott's Global Explorations in 2012,and to the best of my knowledge,nothing has been recovered.
Fowlers Bluff is another of the "well documented pirate camps" on Florida's west coast.
In 1888,Emmet Baird claimed to have found a pirate chest there,left the area,and moved to Gainesville Florida and opened a hardware store.This is the only mention of a find.The SATURDAY EVENING POST ran this story in 1945,adding the "well documented..."hangout of LaFitte,Jose Gaspar,and Black Caesar to the tale,and the hunt has been on ever since.
The pirate era of the west coast of Florida lasted for about 50 years,and the lifespan of well known pirate camps were about 3 years,as with the case of Ross Island in Tampa Bay.

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

Thanks ECS

View attachment 959279

Thank you ECS​

 

[lastleg]

Yeah ECS, thanks for bringing us all down to earth again. All that gold dust clinging to the divers
went to my head.

 

[vor]

The Fowler's Bluff "find" was shown to be a hoax. I believe BDD knows a bit about that site.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Crescent City is in Putnam county on the east coast and the 19th century riverboat Aligator was discovered in Crescent Lake about two years ago. Fowlers Bluff is in Levy county on the Suwannee River on the west coast,and I believe that is the dig you are referencing. The last dig was conducted by Norman Scott's Global Explorations in 2012,and to the best of my knowledge,nothing has been recovered. Fowlers Bluff is another of the "well documented pirate camps" on Florida's west coast. In 1888,Emmet Baird claimed to have found a pirate chest there,left the area,and moved to Gainesville Florida and opened a hardware store.This is the only mention of a find.The SATURDAY EVENING POST ran this story in 1945,adding the "well documented..."hangout of LaFitte,Jose Gaspar,and Black Caesar to the tale,and the hunt has been on ever since. The pirate era of the west coast of Florida lasted for about 50 years,and the lifespan of well known pirate camps were about 3 years,as with the case of Ross Island in Tampa Bay.

I guess ECS probably doesn't believe anything about pirate's at Fowler's Bluff. Why? Because he googled it and picked and chose what to believe. Not my style. I had never heard of Fowler's Bluff until someone posted a newspaper account of a dig going on there. Two weeks later I came into contact with a new TNET member that had a one-of-a-kind LRL type device. He wanted to demonstrate it for me. Well, the next thing you know I am in the back seat of his car as he drove up to check out Fowler's Bluff. We had another guy with us.

The LRL guy had no real knowledge of anything about this site other than he had read the town name in a list of Florida treasure sites. So off we went to check it out. I decided to just keep my mouth shut and be an un-biased witness as to what might happen.When we were about a mile away he stopped the car so that he could operate his device. I had been looking at a map so I knew the general direction of the town. His device pointed him in that direction.

We stopped a couple more times and eventually we were in town. The newspaper article that I read talked about a dig at the local restaurant. It was a dig in progress. My new pals device did not pick up any signals in the vicinity but did point in another direction. We checked out the restaurant and I bought a t-shirt. Here is the logo on it.View attachment 959311 We continued on.

We got to another spot and he operated his device again. It showed that we had passed the spot it was picking up. After some more triangulating it was now pointing at a property with a chain link fence. While the other two stayed in the car I went up to the gate and called out to a person I had seen in the back yard. She came to the gate and I explained why we were there. She sensed I could be trusted and let me in. Her husband was taking a nap and she said I needed to talk to him. He came to the door. He introduced himself as Tommy Todd. We immediately hit it off.

He told me the whole story from start to finish as to all the details of what had occurred on his property. It was very interesting. My friend's device had pointed to an area that was about 100 feet from where the other dig had occurred. It was in a spot that would not be very easy to dig. Tommy's wife had some interesting stories of ghosts walking at night on their property. It is right on the Suwannee river at a curve where it was said the pirates would beach their ships so that they could clean the hull.

We parted ways as friend's. I have since talked to Tommy several times. Others have approached him to attempt a dig but at this time he is not interested in having his property torn up. He does believe in the existence of pirate treasure. I have since talked to another person that felt they knew where the gold was. It was in the same area that the LRL led us to.

Recently I have come into some information that leads me to believe that there is a chest not far from Tommy's house but not on his property. Yeah, thanks ECS for your cut and paste info. I prefer to go out in the real world and get my story straight from the source.

 

[ECS]

Cut and paste info?!!! Having another Red Herring fish fry,BDD? I just provided a very brief account concerning the question on Fowlers Bluff.No cut,no paste.
Maybe I should have mentioned that no one,except for Emmet Baird ever saw the pirate chest he claimed to have found there in 1888.Could that have been a cover story for where the money actually came from for Baird to open that hardware store in Gainesville?
It does seem to be a bit coincidental that many of the west coast of Florida pirate tales of buried treasure emerged during the 1880-90's period-Capt Charles Moore,Emmet Baird,and Dudley Patten,and the content of each had similar elements.