Pirate Treasure-Trying to get a permit to dig up

[Bigdogdad]

Back on topic: BDD, have you cored your target area yet?
Like I said before, if you fill your core I don't think that any harm will be done.
V

If the target you ask about is the one at Rocky Bluff, no I have not drilled at that spot. It is not a matter of any harm being done, it is the fact that I asked for official permission and was denied. I am not interested in risking trouble by pursuing this site as I have others where I have permission to detect and possibly dig. If and when the time is right I will probably go after the possible silver treasure buried there. I will probably have to accomplish this by bringing in a third party that the state might be more willing to cooperate with. Thanks for asking.

 

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[ECS]

BDD,you are very good at the evasive response to a question,answer by attacking the one asking the question.
I thought by now you would come to the realization that TN was an open forum,where opinions,pro and con are discussed within the guidelines and rules of TN.

 

[Bigdogdad]

BDD,you are very good at the evasive response to a question,answer by attacking the one asking the question.
I thought by now you would come to the realization that TN was an open forum,where opinions,pro and con are discussed within the guidelines and rules of TN.

You have rarely answered any questions I have given you in the past. You have not answered any I just asked. I always try to answer your and any body else's. Now what exactly is the question you are asking? As far as the open forum and being able to give opinions, I am all for it. The problem I have with you is that you try to convey your opinions as facts. The other problem is your constant need to try to prove that there is nothing to be found at any of my sites. Are you trying to be the judge and jury of T-net? Just state your "opinion" and move long. Nothing to see here.

If you want to discuss the "Swamp Gold" legend or the possible treasure at Cloud Mountain let's take this discussion to the proper thread. I am sure BCH would like some activity. See you there.

 

[ECS]

BDD,I do state my opinion and move on,without resorting to namecalling,derisive and desulory comments that you are apt to do.
What question have you recently ask?
The question I posed-How do you know this is a perfect site for a treasure cache without knowing who placed it there,when it was placed,why it was placed at this location,and if anything was ever placed at this location,beyond the dowser and LRL reason.
Many times when I present facts,I post the links for confirmation of my posting.On the otherhand,you expect all to accept your opinions and statements at face value,and when questioned,you reply with open unbridled umbrage.You never seem to understand that some information is given as an aid,not as an attack on your opinion.

 

[Bigdogdad]

BDD,I do state my opinion and move on,without resorting to namecalling,derisive and desulory comments that you are apt to do.
What question have you recently ask?
The question I posed-How do you know this is a perfect site for a treasure cache without knowing who placed it there,when it was placed,why it was placed at this location,and if anything was ever placed at this location,beyond the dowser and LRL reason.
Many times when I present facts,I post the links for confirmation of my posting.On the otherhand,you expect all to accept your opinions and statements at face value,and when questioned,you reply with open unbridled umbrage.You never seem to understand that some information is given as an aid,not as an attack on your opinion.

I answered most of this question about the "perfect site" in post #999. My opinion is based on the site characteristics, history, research, location, local lore, Miccosuki input, numerous LRL's, numerous dowsers, and evidence found at the site. I looked all around and could not find a big X on the ground. As far as who may have placed it there, it could have come from many known or unknown sources. Who may have put it there has no bearing on whether or not it is there. It may have been placed at this location for various reasons. A lot has changed in the last 150 years. As far as whether anything was ever placed at this location the only way to know for a fact is to try to find it by detecting and digging.

I will also tell you again as I have mentioned this many times, I have not and will not tell everything I know about all this on this public forum. Why should I? I am not on trial here. The property owners are the only ones that I am concerned with as far as convincing them of a possible treasure being at this site. Seeing as how we have already dug at a spot picked by an electronics person, I guess they must take me seriously. The location is such that it is somewhat complicated.

As far as information being given as an aid, if by you what was it? Now a direct question for you. Without knowing the location, history, or site characteristics, why do you insist that there is no treasure to be found at the site known as "Cloud Mountain"? Answer on here please.

 

[ECS]

I have answered that question many times on the "SWAMP GOLD" thread if you are thinking about the 1/2 ton of Confederate gold story that made its rounds in the treasure mags.I even posted the origin of that tale from the 1940's,and historical references that were used to create that tale.There was no Union or Confederate incursion that deep in the Everglades,no reason to transport gold through the Everglades when a successful CSA blockcading operation existed in Punta Rassa that shipped cattle for gold specie to Cuba,and the basic story of the Union and Confederate firefight while the CSA soldiers buried a 1/2 ton of gold without the Union aggressors knowing what was happening.That's for the location and history part of the answer.
Site characteristics do appear to be a berm construction during the drainage construction era,or debris from the building of the Tamiami Trail,Aligator Alley.
Both your Rocky Bluff pirate treasure site and Cloud Mountain site are next to or 1000 ft from I-75.Did not someone find construction debris at Rocky Bluff? I believe it was mentioned,earlier,on this very thread.
Now caches from that time do exist,a lost 50lb gold specie cattle payment in Corkscrew Swamp,and casches at homesteads in SW Florida,that were raided and burned by Confederate turncoat,Union Lt James D Green.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I have answered that question many times on the "SWAMP GOLD" thread if you are thinking about the 1/2 ton of Confederate gold story that made its rounds in the treasure mags.I even posted the origin of that tale from the 1940's,and historical references that were used to create that tale.There was no Union or Confederate incursion that deep in the Everglades,no reason to transport gold through the Everglades when a successful CSA blockcading operation existed in Punta Rassa that shipped cattle for gold specie to Cuba,and the basic story of the Union and Confederate firefight while the CSA soldiers buried a 1/2 ton of gold without the Union aggressors knowing what was happening.That's for the location and history part of the answer.
Site characteristics do appear to be a berm construction during the drainage construction era,or debris from the building of the Tamiami Trail,Aligator Alley.
Both your Rocky Bluff pirate treasure site and Cloud Mountain site are next to or 1000 ft from I-75.Did not someone find construction debris at Rocky Bluff? I believe it was mentioned,earlier,on this very thread.
Now caches from that time do exist,a lost 50lb gold specie cattle payment in Corkscrew Swamp,and casches at homesteads in SW Florida,that were raided and burned by Confederate turncoat,Union Lt James D Green.

I will assume that this was your feeble attempt to answer my question. In other words no story, no gold. This argument has been used by you in the past. It is a very weak assumption. My reply to this has always been the same. If someone buried gold or silver and did not tell anyone or write it down in some form, this has no affect on its existence. The possible gold/silver on Alligator could have come from many different sources unrelated to any of your Civil war stories. I am not going to list all the possibilities as it does not really matter. I know that you spend countless hours looking up old tales from diaries and written records such as newspaper accounts. These all have to be taken with a grain of salt and any information gleaned from them is subject to doubt as to its accuracy and authenticity.

Many treasures over the years have been discovered by accident. Crews building highways, workers constructing a house, a parking lot being built and so forth. Did it matter where it came from, who put it there , or what its history was? No, it was there and they found it. Our methods are different. I have other people that have claimed they can locate gold/silver with their own technique. Whether it be dowsing, LRL's, remote sensing or whatever, it is my decision whether I want to put the effort in to see if they are right. Some people prefer the comfy confines of their home to do their "treasure hunting" and think they will find treasure by googling on their computer. I go out and dig holes. Lots of holes. Big holes. Deep holes. You keep doing it your way and I will keep doing it my way. We will see who finds it first.

As far as construction debris being found while pursuing treasure at the Rocky Bluff pirate camp, I don't know of any. There was a small amount of home phone wire found by some modern day pirates digging with a shovel. This insignificant find was blown out of proportion and means nothing. I grew up near the location. My father almost purchased a part of it when I was a boy. I have heard stories over the years of pirate type items being found. It was a known pirate hang out. There has been over 300 years of activity at the site. It is not far from the mouth of a large river emptying into the Gulf of Mexico. There is a freshwater stream at the site. There is a natural point jutting out into the river for lookouts to be stationed. There are stories of a ship laden with silver being burned just off the shore. The elevation is unchanged for hundreds of years. There are huge oak trees on the site.

A dowser led me there with no knowledge of the site from a long distance away and put me on an exact spot claiming there was a large amount of silver buried. Two people 23 years ago with a homebuilt LRL type device triangulated and pinpointed the exact same spot. Modern day treasure hunters pinpointed the same spot with numerous different types of detectors. Five different people using LRL type devices have claimed there is something large and non-ferrous buried at the spot.

Years ago I had the state officials willing to let me proceed with the process of detecting and digging the site. I should have but did not go thru the process. I attempted it again as is stated at the beginning of this thread. They turned me down. They don't want to encourage people to go looking for treasure. I watched and recorded different attempts by different government people do surveying all over the site. I watched as two guys hired by the government as they dug holes across the site. They claimed it was for some "improvement" project. They parked right on top of the spot but never dug there. The "improvements" were never made.

I drive by it everyday. Whatever may be buried there remains to this day. I am attempting to find treasure in more easily reached sites. The pots of gold story is 700 miles from my home. The Alligator Alley site is 200 miles from my home. The Englewood pirate treasure site is 60 miles from my house. I am pursuing leads on many different treasures within my own county that are located on private property that I have legal access to be on. I will wait until there is a change of command at the state highway department and then attempt another chance at getting permission to detect and then dig at Rocky Bluff.

 

[amgrunt69]

Hi Bigdogdad. I hope those state officials aren't following this thread. I hope they don't remember where they parked. You just gave them the location. You're letting ECS get to you. Be careful. Jim

 

[Salvor6]

Hello Bigdogdad. I gotta hand it to you. You are really thick skinned! Good replys to ECS. I have not checked the site you gave me yet. Water is too cold (55 deg.). ECS, I drove by Cloud Mountain last year. It looks like the perfect spot to bury a treasure. Have you ever seen the area? BDD never claimed it was Confederate gold. I think I might know what is buried there. When the Ais Indians recovered gold and silver from Spanish shipwrecks they didn't know what to do with it. Their economy was not based on the gold standard. They did know that the Spanish coveted this metal and they found the perfect place to hide it from them.

 

[ECS]

... ECS, I drove by Cloud Mountain last year. It looks like the perfect spot to bury a treasure. Have you ever seen the area? BDD never claimed it was Confederate gold. I think I might know what is buried there. When the Ais Indians recovered gold and silver from Spanish shipwrecks they didn't know what to do with it. Their economy was not based on the gold standard. They did know that the Spanish coveted this metal and they found the perfect place to hide it from them.

Salvor6,BDD has mentioned the Confederate gold at "Cloud Mountain" story many times on the Swamp Gold thread.Now the native American connection is a possibilty,as they did recover items fron Spanish shipwrecks.Other possibilities could be a native American burial mound or a midden,a berm from a drainage project,or a mound of road construction debris,or just an Everglades hummock.Nothing at that site jumps out as a perfect place to bury a cache or treasure,having been there,I know you would agree.
Mel Fisher consulted Charles Christopher Johnson of that area many times concerning buried treasure and wrecks in south Florida,including the 1/2 ton of Confederate gold in the Everglades story.Johnson was a known treasure hunter,and had married Lilly McKinney,daughter of Charles Greeleigh McKinney,who had served under CSA Capt James McKay,CSA Commissary Agent for South Florida,at CSA Fort Meade.McKay was in charge of all shipments and payrolls in south Florida,working with both the CSA "cattle cavalry" and blockade runners,including CSA Capt John Riley Bless McIntosh,the "Capt John Riley" of the Everglades CSA gold tale,who never ventured beyond the docks at Punta Rassa,was never captured,and survived the Civil War.
After discussions with Johnson,Mel Fisher dismissed the Everglades CSA gold story as an embellished tall tale that made the rounds of the treasure mags.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Salvor6,BDD has mentioned the Confederate gold at "Cloud Mountain" story many times on the Swamp Gold thread.Now the native American connection is a possibilty,as they did recover items fron Spanish shipwrecks.Other possibilities could be a native American burial mound or a midden,a berm from a drainage project,or a mound of road construction debris,or just an Everglades hummock.Nothing at that site jumps out as a perfect place to bury a cache or treasure,having been there,I know you would agree.
Mel Fisher consulted Charles Christopher Johnson of that area many times concerning buried treasure and wrecks in south Florida,including the 1/2 ton of Confederate gold in the Everglades story.Johnson was a known treasure hunter,and had married Lilly McKinney,daughter of Charles Greeleigh McKinney,who had served under CSA Capt James McKay,CSA Commissary Agent for South Florida,at CSA Fort Meade.McKay was in charge of all shipments and payrolls in south Florida,working with both the CSA "cattle cavalry" and blockade runners,including CSA Capt John Riley Bless McIntosh,the "Capt John Riley" of the Everglades CSA gold tale,who never ventured beyond the docks at Punta Rassa,was never captured,and survived the Civil War.
After discussions with Johnson,Mel Fisher dismissed the Everglades CSA gold story as an embellished tall tale that made the rounds of the treasure mags.

Salvor6-ECS and I have been playing this cat and dog game since the both of us joined T-net. Did you notice that when you stated the spot was a perfect place to hide something in the very next post he tells you that because you were there you should know it is not a good site to bury treasure. He just does not seem to listen to anybody but himself.

The "Swamp Gold" thread was started by Big Cypress Hunter (BCH) to see if anybody knew anything about the story of CSA gold being hidden in the Everglades. I read parts of that thread years before joining T-Net. I had a dowser that I believe in lead me to a spot near Alligator Alley where he thought a large amount of gold might be buried. Him picking this spot was based on what his pendulum led him to not because of any stories. I thought that maybe this possible treasure was related to the gold that BCH started the thread for. There was another story about a gold shipment being transported across the Everglades and according to the story in the BOOK it was buried in the vicinity of the Cloud Mountain area. ECS just wants to ignore this. I have stated many, many times that the gold could have come from anywhere and have been placed there by the Native Americans themselves. Actually this is my best guess. ECS just can't seem to get in in his head that the stories of blockade runners and CSA soldiers may have nothing to do with it. As far as Mel Fisher's belief or disbelief in the story, it is irrelevant to me.

ECS-I did some research to find out who might live in Ocala that has the initials ECS. I'm guessing that you must be really old. I found an article in a local newspaper about a guy with your initials getting into a car wreck on I-75. It said he was going too slow in the fast lane and was rear-ended by a 90 year old retired school teacher. According to the article the collision caused this ECS guy to be bent over with such force that his cranium got shoved up into the posterior opening of his alimentary canal. Doctors were unable to remove it. He is supposedly going to recover but he will have a hard time with comprehension. The article also stated that MR ECS claimed he was reading the billboards along the highway and there was a mention of Burma Shave signs. Is this guy related to you?

 

[Salvor6]

I have driven I-75 from Tampa to the Georgia border at least 100 times and I must say that most of the billboards around Ocala are advertisements for porn shops or titty bars.

 

[vor]

I have driven I-75 from Tampa to the Georgia border at least 100 times and I must say that most of the billboards around Ocala are advertisements for porn shops or titty bars.

That would explain the pile up on the interstate.

 

[ECS]

ECS-I never claimed to have "proof"...

Well that statement explains why you always attempt to discredit anyone who offers information that does not agree with your opinions.
That was a funny,though rather puerile I-75 story parody-no cohiba for you.
So,for your entertaiment:

He was told by a dowser from Nantucket
About buried gold in a bucket
50 holes in the ground
and nothing was found
He grabbed the dowser by his pendulum and chucked it!

 

[Salvor6]

I once knew a guy from Ocala
who didn't know $hit from shinola
he critisized a guy with big dogs
and now he eats crow on his blogs

 

[ECS]

I once knew a guy from Ocala
who didn't know $hit from shinola
he critisized a guy with big dogs
and now he eats crow on his blogs

The crow isn't eaten until the last hole is dug,then will see who sits at the head of the banquet.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Bigdogdad likes to dig for big treasure,
he has dug many deep holes in the ground,
the thrill of the hunt is his pleasure,
someday the gold will be found,
ECS reads stories of lost gold,
his hunting is done in a chair,
useless facts we all have been told,
for his opinion I really don't care.

 

[Lafitte Deux]

There were two curmudgeons on Tnet
Who fought like a back-alley strumpet
They went round and round
About where gold could be found
But no one has seen any results yet

 

[ECS]

... I was under contract to do a treasure hunting show. The contract has run out. I am more willing and able to share my story...

Maybe you can salvage that footage,and develop a pilot treatment for a TV sitcom.
The opening could be a long range shot of Aligator Alley,that slowly zooms in to a hummock 1000 ft off I-75 as the theme song plays:
"Sit back now and hear a tale,a tale of a treasure quest
A dowser's swinging pendulum showed that this spot was best,that this spot was best
The leader was a digging man,his shovel worn and used
Sometimes he'd play air guitar to the "Rocky Bluff Blues",the "Rocky Bluff Blues"
So sit right back and enjoy the show,they will be digging for a long,long while
There's Salvor 6,and BDD,and Aquanaut playing nice
Two guys with LRL's ,and all the rest
Here on Cloud Mountain!"

 

[BeenThereDoneThat2]

Ode to Bigdogdad

Chanelling William Ernest Henley :
"Ode To The Thrill Of The Dig"


Out of the night that covers him,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
BDD is dreaming of digging another hole.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
He shall not wince nor cry aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
His head is hard, and unbowed.

Beyond his choice of search methods employed for years,
Looms but the mountain of things not proved,
And yet the menace of some others jeers
Finds, and shall find, BDD unmoved.

Tho some would say to own his flaws he is blind.
After the search of this life is done,
Never knowing what he might find,
It just must be about the thrill of searching for fun.


It matters not to BDD how strait the gate,
How charged with empty digs the scroll.
He is the master of his fate.
He is the captain of his soul.