Pirate Treasure-Trying to get a permit to dig up

[Bigcypresshunter]

BCH
If there is anything good at all in that bill is that private land is excluded. Guess that would make private beachfront more valuable now.

Yea too bad I am not able to purchase the land I wish to detect.

And yes the way its written, the 50 year rule applies to the beach as well.

 

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[vor]

Yea too bad I am not able to purchase the land I wish to detect.

And yes the way its written, the 50 year rule applies to the beach as well.

So, if MDing a beach you throw back anything over 50 years old? It's going to be pretty tough aging those gold rings.

 

[lastleg]

The govt will assume the gold in a ring could be millions of years or more so to be safe just dig and photograph and rebury deeply.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The govt will assume the gold in a ring could be millions of years or more so to be safe just dig and photograph and rebury deeply.

lol for the record I rebury all my 50 year old finds. I only take home beer cans, zincolns and pop tops. Actually it may be illegal to keep pop tops that first appeared in the 60's. Ill have to do the math.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Man made ziptops appeared in '64. After doing the math, I realize that all poptops are still legal. So dig them while you can treasure hunters because we only have a couple years left in Florida.

Now if a beer can has a church key opening, best to rebury.

 

[Bigdogdad]

vor-I was not implying that a not-for-profit would have more rights. I have been told that you are more likely to be given a permit to go after sunken ships and other treasures. I am going to look into all of this in the near future.

 

[Jon Phillips]

So, if MDing a beach you throw back anything over 50 years old? It's going to be pretty tough aging those gold rings.

No. The law applies to navigable waterways, even if there is no water, or low water. The beach situation only applies to beaches that are in a state park, and unless otherwise posted you can hunt from the high tide line to the tow of the dunes (dry sand), but some require a park issued permit even for that. No detecting anywhere else at the park unless looking for something that was specifically lost, and you are escorted by a park ranger. All other beaches are fair game unless it is prohibited by the county or city.

I don't know how water hunting at coastal beaches is affected by the law, but as long as it is not a state park, I don't think that it is enforced...

The state law was modeled after the federal guidelines...which I believe makes exceptions for "common" items like coins, bullets, bottles, and buttons that are older than 50 years, but I don't think the Florida officials had the common sense to include that in their rules....it would release their "stranglehold" too much.

So to remove anything but fossils from the river would require a permit that they aren't going to issue....and even fossil hunting requires a permit under most circumstances, but they issue them freely. The paleontologists "get it", and the permit system pays for the reporting process...imagine that!

 

[Jon Phillips]

vor-I was not implying that a not-for-profit would have more rights. I have been told that you are more likely to be given a permit to go after sunken ships and other treasures. I am going to look into all of this in the near future.

They mean not for profits like the Florida Aquarium...I don't think any new permits have been issued to any "regular people" (not for profit or otherwise) in a looooong time.

I bought a few pirate books to see if anything showed up about the area you are looking into. One was pretty much all legend...and tied almost every pirate in the world to the fictional Jose Gaspar, as well as got a lot of the "facts" from Wikipedia, and "online forums" (probably this one since it kinda brushed on the Confederate gold story).

The other one seemed way more based in reality and more about the facts, and indicated what was most likely legend. Although anything about the Manatee river seemed to be speculation, it did mention a ship being run aground up the river, and some of the cargo being hastily burried in the banks of the river. This is a story that is tossed around in several books, but hardly ever attributed to the same pirate.

Some versions of the story (not necessarily from these pirate books) say that the treasure was burried in the pirate camp, then turn around and say that it was a ship that was chased up the river, the crew burried the treasure, then the ship was sunk or burned, and kinda contradict the pirate camp version. It is possible that they were two incedents that occured a hundred years appart, and that both, or neither, happened.

With all the stories of pirate activity in that area, I have to believe that they are based on some kind of fact, and that something happened there in the past. I hope it was a pirate camp, and I hope that some cool stuff is found there at some point.

 

[vor]

vor-I was not implying that a not-for-profit would have more rights. I have been told that you are more likely to be given a permit to go after sunken ships and other treasures. I am going to look into all of this in the near future.

Sorry BDD
I am with JP on this, they couldn't care less what type of entity you had. What is the source of your info?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think beaches in general are OK to detect but the way its written kinda makes me wonder.

 

[Bigdogdad]

For the sake of discussion let's assume there may be treasure (silver. gold, precious stones, etc) in the river and/or land at Rocky Bluff. There are similar places throughout our county. Who or what entity could/would work within the rules,regulations,laws, etc, to be able to detect for and dig up/recover this treasure. There has to be a legal way to make this happen. I now know that some Joe Blow like me is not going to be issued a permit. I would be glad to work with or help start a group that can get the proper permitting. There has to be a way or else this stuff will either be taken illegally or it will sit there forever. I know this is not what the voting, tax-paying citizens would want. It is my belief that there is treasure all throughout our county. I am probably going to concentrate most of my efforts in the near future going after treasures on privately owned property before our esteemed "lawmakers" decide to make that illegal too.

 

[Jon Phillips]

I'm sure some states would have no problem issuing a permit....unfortunately for us, ours isn't one of them. Go back and read that thread in the General Discussion forum where the archaeologist came on to discuss things (you referenced it in this thread once,I believe)....Notice how he never really addressed anything from me...even though he said he would later? It's because I didn't attack him, but laid out what the problem was, and he had no choice but to realize that I made some valid points that he wouldn't be able to counter. He was so afraid of the current "old guard" that he couldn't even give a hint on where he was or what he did.

It's going to take a change of faces in those positions to get a permit for anything like that.

If you want to make something happen...put your efforts into getting an open discussion with the powers that be about a permit system like with fossils. That means going over the state archaeologists heads.....They will never listen.

Like I said before....You need to get with a local museum, create a project that studies things that crossover with your site (like fishing ranchos), then commence to doing your book research, then on to the field research part after a while. Whatever you stumble onto along the way is incedental to those studies, but a historical find none the less! Then publish your finds.

I'm afraid you will never be able to dig legally under the interstate bridge however.....not with anything other than small hand tools anyway. Maybe some time in the future when this all dies down, and some new faces are sitting accross from you at the FDOT.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I was following the thread for awhile that was started by the archaeologist. He was definitley attacked from all sides. A lot of people made some very good points. Maybe I will go back and read it. I don't think he was really prepared for all the questions he was given. I think they all belong to some sort of club and can't be seen getting excited or interested in "treasure". I do remember he seemed to ignore a lot of questions directed at him. I was told by another archaeologist that they have to agree to some creed about never doing things for profit or just for the money. Unfortunately here in Florida they are the ones pulling all the strings.

Part of the reason I got with the Tampa paper about all this was to try to get some public support to lobby the powers that be to make some changes to the rules. I am not even sure who exactly to try to contact other than going straight to Gov. Scott. It should not have to be so hard. Florida is known for all its treasures. I have spoken about this a lot on this thread and to all the public officials I have talked to. I do know that some of these officials do not like having their name mentioned in any negative way. The newspaper reporter from the Tampa paper interviewed all of them as I had given him their names and numbers. As I have mentioned that article will be out this Sunday.

I had gotten with our local museum and they had recommended a proffessor that I should try to hook up with. I made a few phone calls to him which he did not return. I should have kept at it. I am about to get my second wind on this. I have had a lot of things going on lately. My wife and I have put a lot of time into getting my book published. I know I have already said it but I will keep saying that mytreasurestory the e-book is now available as a download at my website mytreasurestory.com.

As far as digging under the bridge, I ALWAYS stated that I only wanted to dig with hand tools. I think the FDOT would be more cooperative if someone from the state would cooperate. I only talked to men. Maybe that was one of my mistakes. The head person is actually a woman. I will be trying again in the very near future to contact them all. I will probably get with a couple TV news organizations to put a little pressure on some of these officials to come up with a good reason to not allow ANY digging.

Thanks for the support.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im sorry to get a little off topic but I have a question for the pros. I have metal detected along roadsides quite often and never had a problem and never bothered to ask permission. Examples are bus stops, sidewalk tear ups and certain crash sites..

The question is: Is it illegal to metal detect on all FDOT property?? Because I have done it and am considering doing it again this weekend on a sidewalk tear up along Old Dixie Highway.

But I dont want to break the law. Could it be that permission is not needed? Where does it say its illegal?


Someone stated that you dont have to ask permission to throw a frisbee in a State Park for example. If its not listed as an illegal activity, then its not illegal. The same thing applies to Hunting laws. For example, if it doesnt say specifically that tree stands are illegal than permission is not necessary to use one.

If it doesnt state that grasshoppers are illegal to use as bait, then its not illegal to catch fish with grasshoppers. Am I right?

 

[Bigdogdad]

It's probably one of those deals where if you ask enough officials someone will tell you that you are not allowed to do it. Just go for it.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

I am about to get my second wind on this.

I hope your lighter isn't burning.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

It's probably one of those deals where if you ask enough officials someone will tell you that you are not allowed to do it. Just go for it.

Could this apply in your situation?


Ha ha funny KK. Be careful around all that methane gas BDD.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe I missed it but did anyone actually show you the law where it says its illegal to MD on FDOT property?

 

[Bigdogdad]

My lawyer showed me some rules about metal detecting on state controlled land. I believe it is not allowed without a permit. I have not done it myself. Ignorance of the law is not an excuse that will get you out of trouble if they want to fine you.

KK-Glad to see you back. If you can light your own methane there is no smell. It also makes you feel all warm and fuzzy.

For the record my new Miccosukee pal sent me something in writing this morning about my share of any gold that may be found. They will also be covering all the costs of a dig including GPR. He seemed like a great guy. When I told him about the tribe member holding rituals at the spot on "Cloud Mountain" he showed me a picture on the wall of his grandfather and said that it was probably him back years ago at the site doing the ceremonies over the gold at the bottom of 'Cloud Mountain". They are convinced there is lots of gold to found in the Everglades.

 

[releventchair]

B.D.D.i raise little avg. 12 to14 lb. Dogs. About 24 at the moment. Rituals, great. Nothing wrong there. not being allowed to dig for any reason b.s. . Reminds me when i read your posts,.. of Cuba. I,m not one to say what they should do but i,ve friends from there. The gold off their land could be put to good use,but its forbidden,unless your willing to hand it to the government. What more if your obligated to restore site do these people need?. Florida won,t sink if you dig.i understand you looking to focus on private land. Don,t blame you. Good luck. I know you,ll make your own. Its a percentage thing still. Keep at it you,ll hit. But unlike some others i don,t think you will stumble over monetary values. Leaving you in a sane position. simple pleasures are the best my friend,some can,t be bought.