Pirate Treasure-Trying to get a permit to dig up

[Bigdogdad]

My treasure story has been a roller coaster ride of emotional ups and downs. I am feeling kinda down. My appointment in South Florida was cancelled due to sickness. The reporter has not returned my calls from the last two days. The critics are taking a toll on me. I sometimes wonder if I really do know where any treasure is. The odds are against me big time. My faith is being tested.

It is at times lke this that I have to dig deep into my memory to try to recall all the things that I have seen that got me to this point. There was really no big event such as the discovery of a pirate map, although I blew a chance to have one. When you are looking for something that you cannot see you have to use all the attention to detail that you can. It is the little things that add up to a big thing.

When my friend told me about the U-853 diamonds I was of course a little skeptical. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and then looked for the evidence with which to build a case one way or the other. If you only look for things to convince you that something may not be real or true you will find them. It is easy to do. Convincing yourself that a treasure exists is not easy. Most people will try to convince you that you are wasting your time.

My dad was my biggest treasure critic. We had a major falling out over the Englewood pirate chest dig. I had to borrow money from my parents to pay for the damage I did at the restaurant. My dad and I hardly spoke to each other for 8 months. He did not believe in treasure or dowsing whatsoever. He was a pretty smart guy. He only thought in pratical terms. He had never seen any evidence in his life to make him believe and I had none to show him.

I have heard the following phrase at least a thousand times from people when I talk about the treasures. "If you know where it is why don't you just dig it up?" When I try to explain what happened they don't really listen and just think I am making up a bunch of excuses. This has gone on for years. There are people that I know that don't think I have even tried to dig anything up.

This is partly why I wrote my book. I go into great detail about what happened on each treasure trip and dig. I don't know how it will all sound to strangers but I have tried to tell exactly what happened with no embellishing or exaggerating. Writing on this thread has been a kind of therapy for me. I really don't have a clue how many people are reading this but it helps me to share my story. Before I joined Treasurenet I really did not have hardly anyone to talk to about this other than my wife and a friend or two. They have heard it all for so long that it has lost any sense of exitement.

I am only sharing some of the treasure stories on here. As you can see they are VERY hard to believe. I take them for granted as I have lived them. When I go back and read some of my posts I can easily see why I have recieved so much critisism and doubt about the truthfullness of what I put on here. I have to come to some sort of closure on all of this. I need to get it all over with one way or another so that I can move on.

Time is passing by faster and faster. I do not have forever. I am going to do what it takes. Most of my stories involve a treasure whose location I am willing to narrow down to sometimes being standing over it to some where it is within an area the size of a house. I am going with the path of least resistance from here on out. Please wish me luck.

 

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[vor]

Good luck BDD.

 

[Jon Phillips]

This is my first post on this thread, but I have been following it, as I also pass that area a lot (I like to eat at Hickory Hollow BBQ!), and I am always interested in Florida history.

This might get long, but bear with me, if you will.

You seem to be in a receptive mood...I'm sure we know some of the same people, as I have many car buddies in the Parish/Ellenton area, and we share some common interests.

Please don't take anything I say as an attack, or even sarcasm....The tone is not meant to be.

The problem that a lot of us have with all this, is the things that don't add up (logistically, scientifically, and realistically, not your version of the story).

I think most of us believe that YOU believe it all.

A few of the problems:

One thing is all the past people that have come on here, and elsewhere, that have fantastic claims of "knowing exactly where a treasure is" (usually a very famous one), but never recovering one (you could argue that they would keep quiet about it, but it usually ends at the "I need a partner to meet me in some random place and supply everything but the location" or "I am having problems with the landowner over percentage...blah, blah, blah...").

Another thing is that simply...most people don't believe in the paranormal...or they only believe certain things (maybe ghosts, or karma, etc.) Your story started out as almost solely based on psychic abilities, and then "backed up" by some guys with an LRL (which as you have seen are VERY controversial and polarizing), with no other reliable source of anything actually being there. The problem with any kind of dowsing is, it not a scientific fact, but faith, like religion, that the person either believes or doesn't. I know people say they can dowse on a site and find water or power lines. What was strongly suggested before was that maybe these people that can do that, could do it without the dowsing rods or stick...that it is there experience that tells them where the lines are. My sister just moved to a new (old) house. I can see where the water valve is by the street, and where it goes into the house....and I have a PRETTY GOOD idea where the water lines run...same thing with my yard....the pump is here....the spigots are there, there, and there....it's easier to run pvc in straight lines......I used to work by two plumbing companies...both "old school" neither of them used dowsing...we discussed it. I had an ancestor that used it to find where to dig a well...it always worked, but here in Florida, you just about put it anywhere and find water...like in most places. The same guy once saw a "ghostly, transparent, woman pointing at a spot on the ground" He dug and found a small box, but (like in countless treasure stories), "it kept slipping away deeper into the loose sand". I've lived in Florida my entire life, and never encountered and mysterious "quick-sand". See....there was no cable back in the 1930's, and some people made things up to entertain themselves, and others.

Now map dowsing.....That requires what? a pendelum with the desired material in it, and a map? How does the pendelum know what map is under it, or if it is even accurate? How does it know how deep anything is? How does it "tune out" all the other gold/siver/diamonds that are in everyones homes, cars, or on their person, etc.? Is it 100% psychic ability, and the pendelum is just a "device"? Then why would you need the samples to put in it? You can see why all this would be hard to swallow from a logically thinking person, that goes about things scientifically......

I'm not going to get into LRL's but to say, that most that are disassembled, are found to have many components that don't do anything (a lot of calculator parts evidently), and they don't transmit or recieve past the end of your arm. You could say all the arguments that their supporters do...It is an "unknown science", "you can't prove that they don't work", "How would you know if you've never used one yourself", etc. I've never seen anything that was actually found with one, and I wanted to believe they worked as a kid, so I have looked into them through the years....I've seen plenty found with detectors....Most people believe in them.

The things that don't add up are things like the depth of the silver bars, but that the limestone is close to the surface...I doubt that anyone...pirate or otherwise...would dig under the limestone to bury anything....especially if you were trying to get it into the ground unnoticed.

Another thing is, it just happens that all these guys located a large treasure that managed to not be under the bridge foundation, Leverocks, or the motel. All these stories always seem to be in an accessable area...not "under the bank parking lot".

Another is that the map dowser guys always point out that "It was just a little deeper...You didn't dig deep enough" when something wasn't found....that, or they all don't "see" the same thing, at the same place, at the same depth. Ever see that show "Psychic Treasure Hunt"? Pretty much sums it all up. They are "drawn" to a location, it "matches" all the "signs"....they break out the detectors and shovels.....then....nothing....they can't believe it wasn't there!

As I often pass over a bridge in the area, I will look out and think..."Man...if I were a pirate back in the day, that would be a good place to bury something, and be able to find it again." or "I wonder what is up with that one tall cedar tree in the middle of that little island in the river..." I think that is a lot of what goes on with dowsers. It's speculation that they are trying to attribute to some sort of "power".

In your story you, Ovid, and some other guys, were at an airplane crash site that supposedly contained diamonds. He said you guys had diamonds in your hand....you guys didn't believe him, and dropped them....later on he asked about them, and found out you dropped them because they didn't look like diamonds, and he looked disappointed. You later saw pictures of industrial diamonds that looked like what you had in your hand, and you state that as proof Ovid's abilities were real....The problem most people have with that story is....Why on earth would Ovid have left the site, or even turned his back, without making sure the "diamonds" were secured? Especially if he was to recieve a cut of them? It is things like that that cast doubt on these things. I have no doubt you believe them just as you tell them, but maybe you don't see the problems that others see with fresh eyes.

You say "Convincing yourself that a treasure exists is not easy".....but it seems to come a whole lot easier to you than a lot of others. That's not a criticism....just pointing out why (like you seem to be realizing) that it is hard for most to believe what you accept so easily. You seem to take a lot of things as a "sign" of treasure. An example is digging up the burried family dog that time...even though you were told it was a dog burried there. When I moved where I am at now...I was told that there were two beloved German Shepherds burried in a certain spot. I took this info for what it was....the truth. I have no desire to dig there. If they had burried a treasure there...they would have dug it up and took it with them when they moved....and definately not told me "not to dig" in a certain area.

If your documentation of Rocky Bluff being a pirate camp is coming from L. Frank Hudsons book "Lost Treasure of Florida's Gulf Coast"....you might not want to put too much faith in it, as it is generally considered to be entertaining, but mostly fantasy. The "powers that be" are also well aware of this book, and discount anyone using it as "proof" of anything. It was brought up recently in an article about Mullet Key, and treasure in the St. Pete Times.

Some advice on any future dealings with the city/county/state/feds/etc.....

Don't mention pirates or treasure.
Don't mention dowsing or psychic powers.
Don't mention reality shows or pay-per-views.
Don't mention treasure books or John Lafite, etc.
Don't stray off-topic showing pictures of your cars or dogs...it doesn't make you look serious...it makes you look unfocused on the subject at hand!
Example: While at a laundromat one time a woman sat down next to me making small talk. Soon, there was a lull in the "conversation" and she blurted out "I once went to a Neil Diamond concert." Guess what? My crazy alert went off, and I got out of there! That info had nothing to do with anything else going on at the time!

What you should do next time, is show them all the research you are doing for your upcoming book on the fishing ranchos of Florida's gulf coast in the 1830's-1840's, and how you would like to do a totally professional, and non-evasive site survey on some of their land to see if you could narrow down the location for the book, and a historical marker to be placed at the site. Only show them the references to the rancho's in other books, and your 2 million dollar liability insurance policy with them listed as a beneficiary.


I know this is a long post, but it was just some of the things that were on my mind.

Again...I hope you don't take anything personal, or think I was criticizing you in any way....I was just trying to point out where some of the negativity is coming from. If you had come on here talking about research, and things found in the area in the past, and the "chance" of something good being there...I think you would have gotten a much different reception than talking about specifics derived from psychic powers, and LRL's....and calling research the "magic" or whatever it was you called it at some point in all this.

I hope you do find treasure....I hope someone does develop a machine that can locate valuables in the ground from a distance...That would all be awesome!

 

[Jon Phillips]

Here are a couple of pictures of Rocky Bluff before the interstate and other businesses went up...1940, and 1957.

 

[Bigdogdad]

I tried to post the following reply last night. The power went off for the second time and did not come back on until this morning. Our other computer was in the process of restoring itself when this happend and is now totally screwed up. We did not have the new battery backup hooked up yet.

Jon Phillips-Thank you for posting. Finally someone responding with some serious questions and not just calling me a fraud. As I have stated in the past I would also have a hard time believing any of my story if I was in someone elses shoes. A couple of things happened this morning. My wife was putting some of the finishing touches on the godaddy site for my book. The power went off and then back on. It totally screwed up the computer. In fact I am typing this on a computer I had bought to do video editing. This computer problem has never happened before in all the years we have had computers. Should I take it as some sort of sign to stop my book release? Was it just a case of bad timing? It is almost 10 hours since this happened and she is still trying to fix the damage. We went and bought a battery backup which we should have already had. I don't think this was any sign that I should stop. It is a sort of test for our perseverance. My whole treasure story has been a test of my will to believe in Ovid and the treasures.

One of the guys involved with the pirate treasure site came by. We had a long talk about it and other aspects of my story. I think he has lost faith. I don't blame him. He brought up what he believed to be valid points as to why the treasures may not be where I think. He does think my U-853 story is a good one. As I have said this was the story that got me into treasure. Dowsing, LRL's, pirate treasures and more came later. It is so hard for me to explain why I believe in the treasures and what has happened that I felt the need to write the whole story in great detail in chronological order as a book. I also try to explain what type of person I am and how this type of story would fit right in to my life.

First I will try to reply to your points one at a time.

Claiming to "know" where the treasures are but not digging one up.-- I believe that I have always said that I "think" I know the exact spot or I "believe" I know the exact spot. The only way the truth will come out is to do a serious dig that goes wide and deep enough to leave no doubt as to whether there was something there. As you can see from some of my pictures I have certainly tried to dig in Englewood. I also have tried to dig in North Carolina but am not sharing the pictures as this is an ongoing story. I have also videoed these digs in great detail and you can see exactly what happened and form your opinion from them. I will share them in the future. If I didn't have very good reasons to believe in the existence of these treasures I would have certainly not put in the time and effort that I did. These digs are not over. I have not given up in my belief. Blind faith? Maybe. But if you look at my training and experiences you need to give me the benefit of the doubt that there must be a lot more to these stories than I can possibly put on a internet forum.

Most people don't believe in the paranormal.--How do we decide what to believe? By what we read? By what we are told? By our own personal first person eyewitness accounts? If you don't believe in dowsing or the paranormal it is probably because you have no real experience to go by. Have you ever worked with or followed along with a veteran dowser? How many times would you have to see something that is unexplicable other than with some sort of paranormal powers, to begin to believe?. Time after time in my travels with Ovid I would see events that were in no possible way just a "coincidence". If you see something crazy happen once you may write it off. After a dozen or more times you become a "believer". I have my own rods and can do the simple water and electric line finds. Is it because I am cheating by looking at the logical spot where they would be? Who would I be trying to fool? Myself? I am absolutely convinced without a doubt that dowsing can work and that there will of course be some people who are better at it than others. I always thought of Ovid as the "Dowser's Dowser". Without having seen what I have seen I don't expect anyone to believe what I say just because I claim it is so.

Map dowsing--This is a little harder to explain and believe. I saw Ovid do it on numerous occasions and it was part of a complex test he was put through. What he was able to do was none other than phenomenol. It took me quite a long time to come to my conclusions on how it works. I go into a lengthy explanation in my book but I will try to give a short one here. There is information that exists. It may be where something was hidden or where a dead persons body is or such. This information is in a collective consiousness that we can tap into. We are born with a ton of information in our DNA. It is information from our ancestors. Just as a bird is born knowing how to fly, a dog knows how to point, a fish can find its way to the place up a river where it was born. Our brains contain memories and facts from our parents, grandparents and anyone else with our DNA. Some people are somehow able to access this information through mental telepathy. The more open and receptive their mind is the better it may work. With repeated experiences and practice it may begin to work better. Where do you think all those random thoughts that pop into your head come from? How many times has a little voice warned you right before you are about to do something foolish? All this may be hard to accept or explain. I have had many of my own experiences that have proved to me beyond a shadow of a doubt in my own abilities. You either are willing to try to believe in all this or you may just write it off to hogwash.

LRL's-Obviously a touchy subject on here. As with any electronic device some work, some don't. Some are a scam, but technology is constantly changing. If someone told you only 20 years ago what a device that you can buy cheaply (smart phone) could do you would never believe it if you didn't hold it in your own hand and use it. How easy would it be for someone to explain to the average person exactly how a smart phone does what it does. I still find them simply amazing. What will they be able to do in the future? There are people that having been trying to scam people for centuries with all kinds of devices and contraptions. The two guys I met were not normal. At least one of them is an out in out electronic genius. These guys were only trying to find treasure for themselves when I met them. I am not going to argue the pro and cons of LRL's. Let's just say 99.9% of them don't work. Was I lucky enough to hook up with someone that had that .1 percenter? It would not surprise me in the least.

Depth of the limestone--The Rocky Bluff area was heavily wooded. The pirates had lots of time on their hands. What is so hard to believe about them digging and burying the silver where it would be hard to dig it back up. Makes sense to me. ECS even found reference to "limestone vaults" being dug to hide the treasures. I have a specific spot where I think the silver "may" be. It is right in the middle of an area that has a lot of limestone and limestone soil on its surface. Hence the name 'Rocky Bluff". There have been arguments that the pirates did not even bury their treasures. With a 250-350+year history of pirate activity in this general area it is highly likely that there will still be treasures to be found.

"Under a bank parking lot"- Do you think it is possible that a lot of the treasures may have been found while construction was going on. I have heard stories of guns, cannons, silver, swords, and even a chest found in this area. As far as the dowsers claiming the treasure is in an accessable area, because this treasure could possibly be dug up up I would think if they were trying to scam someone they would claim it was in a location that could not be accessed and therfore no one could prove them wrong.

Plane crash diamonds.--the "diamonds" that we may have had in our hands looked like flat rounded pieces of rocky sand. It was not a 'picture' of an industrial diamond that I later saw. It was the industrial diamond Ovid had in a small clear plastic ring box similar to one that would come out of a candy vending machine. It looked EXACTLY like what we had held in our hand. That particular day had not gone well. We had driven across the state, waited for the guy to recover from his hangover. It took well over an hour to find the location and that was only because Ovid located it on a map. There were no-see-ums, it was hot, we had to slog back into a mangrove swamp. When Ovid saw that we had thrown these diamonds down he just wanted to leave. We still had to drive back across the state. I recently recounted this story with the guy that was there and a friend of his. He said it all happened EXACTLY as I said.

Dead dog- The dead dog was buried 3 feet from where I found money. I certainly did not want to dig up a dead dog. My huge Mistake.

Documentation of Rocky Bluff-I have lived in the area for the past 42 years. I have talked with many of the locals who were born and raised here and whose ancestors are from here. Rocky Bluff is a known pirate activity area. Accept it. I don't have as much faith in treasure books and magazines as some do.

Your advice for my future-"Don't mention pirates or treasure".-If my story involves pirates and treasure, that is what I will say.

"Don't mention dowsing or psychic powers".-If my story involves dowsing or psychic powers, that is what I will say.

"Don't mention reality shows or pay-per-views".- If those are my intention, that is what I will say.

"Don't stray off topic and mention cars and dogs".- I have very serious cars and dogs. they are a big part of my story. They illustrate how serious I am in what I do.

"This does not make me look serious".- Come visit me. Look me in the eyes. Then tell me if I look serious.

A stranger mentions a Neil Diamond concert.-You thought this was out of context while having a random conversation with a stranger at a laundromat. Your crazy alarm went off? Hmm....Okay.

Your advice for the "next time" I talk to the officials.-Lie and attempt a scam. Sorry, not my style. I will stick to the truth. It is easier to remember.

Maybe the way I came on to treasurenet at the beginning turned a lot of people off. Maybe it made me look crazy or a fraud. I just came on here and told some of mytreasurestory.com.

Thanks for the response. Keep the questions coming. Jon-Come visit me in person then report back on here what you saw and experienced.

 

[panhandler]

Ha HA what a belly splitter

 

[ECS]

... I... got spanked...

Indeed!

 

[Bigdogdad]

ECS-Indeed it was YOU that got spanked. This is a great example of someone taking something out of context to make it appear contrary to what was said. Is this the way you operate? Your credibility rating continues to sink. I on the other hand am willing to reply to questions asked of me. I also handle critisism like a grownup. ECS- Where's the reference to silver bars being found in the past at Rocky Bluff. It exists. Can't you find it? Do you need my wife to help you? Indeed!

 

[Jon Phillips]

I think maybe you take what people say the wrong way, or don't really understand what they are trying to convey.

When I talked about people "knowing" about a treasure's location but never digging it up...I was not talking about your specific case...I was generalizing a situation that comes up all the time on here, and other places, in order to give you an idea of why your story faced an uphill battle from the start. It was not personal.

As to why we believe what we believe...Yes. All those things make up our beliefs. What we read, are taught, witness ourselves.... There were people that believed that a spaceship was hidden in the tail of the Hale-Bop Comet, and they would be magically transported up to it when they killed themselves....Seems pretty delusional to the average, rational, person doesn't it? But they believed it so much that they killed themselves...after some other pretty "extreme" acts of devotion! Those were a lot of very smart people too...not just "lost souls" off the street. They worked for computer companies and whatever! So what I'm saying is...For most people, we could look at them and say "How could any of them actually believe any of that?" But I'm sure none of them ever doubted it.

Same thing with paranormal claims. I have the feeling you think I am 100% skeptical. I never said one way or the other. I know three women that routinely claim to see ghosts...in broad daylight, and every week in a couple of cases. One is a drama queen that likes attention, so it's fair to rule her out. Another never publicized it, but to this day, as a grown woman, and mother...she has to carry around a "security blanket" everywhere she goes...so that crosses her out!.....But the third? I have no reason to think she would ever lie about anything...and I have to take her word at face value. My mother and all her brothers and sisters (9 kids total) were walking down an old dirt road when she was a child. They came up to a tree along the path. In the tree was a beautiful woman in a white, flowing dress, that pointed to the ground, then held up a hand to stop them. She didn't speak, but at the base of the tree was a large rattlesnake, right by where they were about to walk...The ghost of their sister that died at birth? An angel? Someone else that ran up the tree to get away from the snake? I don't know, but they all think they saw a ghost.

I have things in my life that would steer me towards believing in ghosts and the afterlife....but until I see it for myself...there is always that doubt that it could be misinterpreted situations, or mental things....the brain does wierd things sometimes.

I have no doubt in the wonder of animals and their instincts. Mothers know how to take care of babies...Cats can find their way home over many miles of seperation, etc., but until it is proven scientifically...I have my doubts about psychics. I've seen too many fake ones. I've had that "little voice" inside my head before doing something foolish...I usually listen to it....and when I don't, it ends up in peeled skin, blood, or scratched up vehicles. I don't consider it guardian angels, ghosts, or genetic memory. I consider it common sense!

All I'm saying about psychics, dowsers, and LRL's is....I've never seen ANY proof of them being true. And that's what it takes for me to believe in them. When I was a child, I believed in many things that turned out to be stories, or out and out lies. That is part of how we learn to believe what we believe...What we read, are taught, and witness ourselves.

As for the limestone...What is wrong with burying the silver where it would be hard to dig up? Think about that....If they had to "get the loot and scoot" do you think they would want it to be hard to dig back up? I'm trying to help here, not disprove that there pirates there. Think like a pirate at those times. You will probably be hanged if caught...do you want to be next to a major waterway with pick axes, and metal spikes busting up limestone for days? And if it was a long running camp, don't you think the area was cleared over time for shacks, and maybe a dock...or at least through the cutting of firewood? I bet it wasn't too much more wooded than it was in that 1940 photo....maybe less as there was plenty of time for trees to grow back. I don't know what context ECS brought up the limestone vaults....but I have also read that. I believe in the infamous L. Frank Hudson book! One was supposed to be on the north end of Honeymoon Island.....That doesn't mean there are any. I just don't believe anyone was digging limestone treasure vaults unless it was in the middle of some stone stronghold like in the Carribean or South American port cities. I believe there could be pirate treasure in the area. Just not under any bedrock.

As for treasure being found in construction sites...Yeah I believe that is totally possible to have happened. I have read it many times in treasure books...Just never any newspaper articles...That would make me believe it to have dates times, places, and names.

If a map dowser was trying to scam someone they absolutely would be inclined to say a treasure was under a building, etc.....but if they actually BELIEVED it themselves....they would want it to be where they could have a chance of proving it. Someone could try a little experiment if they liked. Bury something of value in your yard, they ask online for map dowsers to P/M you where they think it is, and see if any of them match. If it is a true thing, they should all match, and be spot on....my guess is they will either not participate (saying they don't have anything to prove), or be all over the place...just randomly guessing. Someone might get it right...and look legit.


As for the diamonds....If Ovid was into treasure for much of his life, as you say.....I just can't imagine ANY treasure hunter leaving handfuls of exactly what you all had came for on the ground. All the conditions you mentioned would make it even more imparitive to be sucessful...not less. That's how I see it. You may see it differently.

The dead dog....That was to point out that you seem, by the things you have said on here, to take almost ANYTHING as a sign....sometimes things just happen. I live on a creek, and tree's fall all the time...sometimes right in front of my eyes....I don't take it as a "Sign" of anything other than erosion.....it would have happened if I was there or not. My point was not to ridicule you, but to point out that you seem to want to believe everything is a sign of treasure.

You asked who you would be trying to fool with your dowsing, and asked was it yourself....We all try to fool ourselves all the time...it's human nature.

You say Rocky Bluff had documented pirate history...I hope so. That would be cool...as I said....I love Florida history, and would love for something like that to have been so close to my home. I have never seen that documentation other than Hudson's book. He named Lafite as the pirate, so I read a pirate book that I have, and under Lafite, it never mentioned Florida....He could have very well been here, but I don't know where Hudson got his information. I ordered a couple of more books specifically on Florida pirate activity....maybe it will be in one of those. I know you never said it was Lafite. But you did reference L. Frank Hudson, and that a ship with more treasure was in the river oposite Rocky Bluff, which I have only found in Hudson's book so far.

I know the verbal accounts of Seminole War activity (even by tour guides), and the documented facts, are often at odds....I would imagine the un-documented, centuries older, stories are even more corrupted. Many places that I had read of being "pirate camps" in Florida...I later read as being fishing ranchos. One person attributed as a pirate in a book i read, later turned out was just a landowner, and fisherman in the area. I was disappointed to see how "mundane", and well-documented his life was!


You said:


"Your advice for my future-"Don't mention pirates or treasure".-If my story involves pirates and treasure, that is what I will say.

"Don't mention dowsing or psychic powers".-If my story involves dowsing or psychic powers, that is what I will say.

"Don't mention reality shows or pay-per-views".- If those are my intention, that is what I will say.

"Don't stray off topic and mention cars and dogs".- I have very serious cars and dogs. they are a big part of my story. They illustrate how serious I am in what I do.

"This does not make me look serious".- Come visit me. Look me in the eyes. Then tell me if I look serious."

You apparently started this thread to get some advice on getting permission to dig on FDOT land right? That was SOLID advice that you choose to do the opposite of! I dealt with government officials for 20 years....ones with bagdes (not police), power to shut down businesses, and in some cases a serious stick up their tails.....I never had a problem with them, and I never had to lie to any of them...and most of them loved me! Even the worst of them turned into *****cats before they moved on.

I didn't say lie to them. I said don't bring up things that will turn them off, or thow up red flags. It doesn't mean it would be a red flag for you...it would be a red flag FOR THEM!

You said yourself (I believe) that they said they would never issue a dig permit for treasure....SO DON"T MENTION TREASURE!.....or guess what? They won't issue a permit!

Let me dig deep into my genetic memory and make a psychic prediction.....If you go into any government office spouting about pirate treasure, psychic powers, race cars, dogs, pay-per-views, and nazi submarines....you will 100% be turned down for a permit. If you don't want to accept that fact, then there is nothing else anyone can do for you unless some statewide permit system comes into effect, and they don't care what you are looking for as long as you fill out the paperwork, and pay the fee.

The story of the nutty as a fruitcake woman saying something totally out of context was an example I was trying to convey to you about how someone saying crazy sounding (to other people) things gets a negative response. There was OBVIOUSLY something wrong with her. My "fight or flight" reflex kicked in (THAT is genetic!)....It was a nice way of saying to you that when you went in there, and was "All over the board" with them....it probably turned them all off, and they dismissed you for good in their minds.

I have very serious cars as well...I've had two of them on the covers three magazines. Four (counting the two) in numerous other magzines. Several featured on well known websites, one I helped build in a museum, and in The Rodders Journal, along with my name credited on another in an upcoming book...That car is in competition at Pebble Beach. A guy came over from France back in May to do a photoshoot on one of mine, and will be back in October for another.....But I would never bring that up in a meeting about a historical dig....unless the guy I was talking to had pictures of hot rods all over his office, and I though it would give me leverage!

The fact that you think it made you look serious instead of unfocused, is what leads me to believe that you just aren't going to be able to see this from others perspectives even though you say that you can....that's not a slam.....just my opinion.

I didn't say lie to them....I said go after a permit for proof of a fishing rancho. I didn't think I would have to spell it out...but here it is:

As I have said, fishing rancho locations and "Pirate camps" go hand in hand. That could mean multiple occupancy of a good camp location through the years. So in your search of the fishing rancho, you might stumble onto a Seminole War era campsite, a pirate camp, an indian village....maybe even a Spanish explorers campsite like what was posted recently found in Ocala. If you find some treasure along the way...it is incedental to what you were doing. Then.....WRITE THE BOOK....you seem pretty adept at that right?? It doesn't have to be a big one, or even an "in print" published one. Put it online for download just like you are doing with your other one. You did what you said...It wasn't a lie. If you are willing to do what it takes, a little book on Florida history shouldn't be a problem.

The fact that you jumped to that conclusion and accused me of trying to get you to lie and scam, and then put yourself "above" me there is part of the problem with this whole thread. I made it clear I was not attacking you, but it looks like you are trying to set me up for the old "It's against T-net rules to advise someone to do something illegal" line.

I assure you my intention was to help you learn how to "Play the game" with the government desk jockys....and trust me...it IS a game. Do you think that when all these State archaologists are trying to get a permit to dig somewhere where nothing they find is going to add to our knowledge of the past, and whatever they recover will end up rotting away in a box somewhere they say; "I need this grant money so I can pay all my bills and get the new ipad..."? No. They talk about how important the site is to everyone that lives, and ever will live......Game.


One more thing......Don't think that it is lost on all of us that you and your buddy like to throw the name of your website and book around at every opportunity. No one puts the ".com" into normal conversation........and they don't run words together into URL form.....That is dangerously close to spamming the forum, and is the most likely thing to get this very entertaining thread shut down.

Again....nothing was meant as an attack...just rebuttal and clarification. I'm not interested in an internet flame war.

Good luck in your quest for a permit.

 

[Bigdogdad]

$650 dollars later I am now on our new computer. The bigger screen helps with my slowly fading eyesight. The old one was about 3 years old. It could have been fixed but we chose not to.

Jon- I sincerely appreciate your advice. I know you are trying to help. The concept of this thread was to get advice on getting a permit to dig. I knew it was a very big longshot that I would be able to get one. Before I even started this thread I was told by a state archeologist that they do not issue permits for what I was wanting to do. Would I have been better off to just accept that and move on to one of my other potential treasure sites? Probably. Should I have never mentioned treasure from the start. Probably. When I showed the site to other TN members and they had a plan on how to proceed, should I have walked away and said let me know how it goes? Possibly. Can I go back and change anything? No. So now what?

One thing here is a fact. There is still an area about 12' X 12' that still reads for non-ferrous metal. As I have stated over and over it is most likely just junk. Does my over-active imigination kick in and try to convince me it is treasure? To a certain degree, yes. Wishful thinking? Yes. I just keep thinking about the events that brought me to this location. Whether anyone reading this believes in the power of dowsing is somewhat irrelevant to me. I KNOW FOR A FACT that I have seen it work. PERIOD. There is no need to argue with me about this because I will not change my belief and am not really that concerned about what others believe on this subject.

The same goes for LRL's. I am not sure if a electronic device locating something at around 100 feet is technically considered an LRL. I saw this device in action on a couple of occasions. Again this was over 20 years ago and one of the guys that invented it said they had been able to develop their machines ability to way beyond that. I am not going to argue about this as I am just repeating what I was told by someone that had absolutely no reason to lie about it to me. I will be possibly working with him in the future. I am looking forward to it.

As far as burying silver in such a way that it would take "days" to dig it up. No I don't think they would need to make it that hard. I am speculating by using the information told to me that this potential silver is not very deep. People in the past were a lot better with a pick and shovel than most of the softies that run around looking for things today. Digging in any dirt is hard work. Digging in soil that is mostly made up of limestone type clay soil takes a lot of effort. It is possible that someone could find a soft spot in this area, dig down, and then dig under the limestone shelf. This would provide a "vault" that could not be easily accessed from above. I can't say what if anything happened on this location. It is possible that some old highway signs or a pile of cable could have been bured. This is most likely the case. Only by digging will anyone know the answer for sure.

As far as a dowsing experiment. I have been e-mailing back and forth with a treasurenet dowser that claims he actually located some silver that was buried by another person as part of a dowsing contest. He claims the silver is in his possesion. He has no reason to lie to me. He has helped me with some things and has asked for no compensation other than if I find something where he said it was to perhaps give him some sort of reward.

We did not have handfuls of diamonds in the mangrove swamp at the plane crash site. We had handfuls of sand that may have contained one or more small industrial diamonds. The police and EMT's had already recovered all the "sparkly" diamonds. It is hard for the untrained eye to distinquish a rough cut industrial diamond from a small chunk of sandy rock. Again I will state that you would have just had to been there that day to understand. I probably should never even mentioned the story. I think I was using it as an example that you have to know what a "diamond in the rough" looks like or you may pass one by and this applies to many things, such as people or cars.

I don't go around thinking irrevelant things are all a sign of treasure. I do believe we are constantly coming upon "signs" in our lives that may help guide us. You have to be paying attention or you may miss them.

As far as fooling myself with my own dowsing. I made some rods for myself not long after meeting Ovid. I carried them in my truck with the intention of using them if and when I needed them. I did not want to use them for something frivilous. I had a chance to use them on a construction site. They worked for me in such a way that I was convinced that they worked. They helped me that day but also helped others. I have seen many children dowse successfully for buried power lines and phone lines on some property that I owned and had buried the lines myself. As I have said, if you have never seen it work to your own satisfaction, you will probably not believe it. This is not the dowsing forum so enough said.

Other people have told me about Frank Hudson. His stories are his own and I have not read them. I base nothing in the way of my beliefs on anything to do with him.

I am sorry that I implied that you were suggesting that I do anything illegal, immoral or unethical. As far as "bending" the rules or laws I think most of us do it in some way on a daily basis.

As far as my book, spam. and .com. I have said from the start that I have written a book. The name of the book is the same name as my website. It is also what I am constantly talking about on here. My...treasure...story. I am not trying to fool anyone. Of course I would like to sell my book and make money. In no way do I consider that I am "spamming" anyone by any definition of the word. If I am doing anything against TN rules it needs to be pointed out by a moderator and I will stop. I do not want this thread erased and I do not want to be banned.

Looking forward to more bicker-free discussions about all and anything treasure>

 

[Jon Phillips]

I hear you. I was pointing out a potential problem that could occure with the constant use of your URL for your site in common conversation. I've seen people banned on other sites for that. I would hate to see it happen to you if it was unintentional.

I hope your guy really did develop a working LRL. That would be great!

As for convincing you to change your beliefs...I know that is impossible.

My old boss swore up and down that if you sat a battery on concrete, it would drain all the power out of it almost immediately. He would put a piece of cardboard or plywood under one that was being charged on the floor. I explained to him that if they didn't go dead on the metal shelf at the store, or on the metal tray in the vehicle, with wires attached to the posts....there was no way concrete could "magically" drain the power out of the bottom! I also pointed out that the bottom of the battery was plastic, and was a better insulator than cardboard anyway.....He agreed...but always put something under one if it was on concrete. Being a car guy, I have plenty of batteries that sit on the concrete floor...they never go dead.

You have asked some detractors if they have ever looked for a cache....I have. It was a firsthand story by my mother's uncle. His father had always burried their money in a Mason jar. Well his father commited suicide because of mounting debt, during the depression, and never told them where it was. We went to the site (now an orange grove), and spent a day detecting. We found lots of signs of habitation...tin toys, household items, marbles on the ground...but no jar of money. But, looking at the big picture...If he killed himself because of mounting debt.....there WAS no money in a jar. But it was an adventure I shared with my family...but common sense told us not to get our hopes up to find any money.

I think if we all approach things with the "potential" of finding something, it is less disappointing when we don't.

 

[ECS]

ECS-Indeed it was YOU that got spanked... I also handle critisism like a grownup. Indeed!

So thats why you resort to ridicule,name calling ,and "spanking" replies when something disagrees with your treasure "STORIES".I can say one thing in your favour,BDD,you are amusing.If the treasure gig doesn't work,maybe take it on the road with a standup act.

 

[Bigdogdad]

When I first starting taking acting lessons at the age of 30 I got a chance to enter a comedy contest. I just thought it was a local low-key event. I did not prepare any routine and figured I could make it up as I went because usually I am funny. When I showed up the night of the contest (after just having fired an employee) I found out that it was a nationwide event called Looking for the most funny person in America. Without going into details I will tell you that I did as bad as you could possibly do. I ended up my "standup" routine by lying on the stage and trying to light a fart. I couldn't fart and tried so hard I pissed in my pants. I was wearing blue jeans and it was hard to miss the wet spot. They literally had to drag me off the stage with a big hook. I had invited lots of friends and relatives to see my big debut. They all laughed their heads off at my "act". My wife, (bless her heart) took photos of all this. I have included one in my book where I am lying on the stage, grimacing, lighter lit, my gas valve open, but alas, no combustion. I use it as an example that no matter how smart or talented you may think you are, you better prepare with lots of practice and/or forethought into what you are trying to achieve, especially if you are going to be in front of others.

ECS- I always reply "in kind" to the way some one is talking/texting to me. You give it to me, I give it back a little harder. Trying being a little nicer on here and see how it goes. Heck, I even invited you to my house. I was going to let you pet my five 200 hundred pound dogs. If you behave they will give you "kisses".

The Rocky Bluff site is in an area where a lot of illegal dumping of junk has occured over the years. Your metal detector may get some sort of reading all over the place. It was pointed out to me that there was metalic trash found on top of this location. After it was removed the metal detector no longer detected anything. If you have read all of this thread you may remember that. Well heres the deal. A powerful metal detector will still read non-ferrous metal over the entire spot. I believe that many people over the years have found junk while looking for a cache and then gave up.

Let's say there is a pile of silver. Let's say it is five feet down. The area is loaded with metalic trash. You metal detect, do a little digging and find trash. After some hard digging, maybe you find a little more trash maybe not. Let's say your metal detector keeps reading more metal. How many people would give up and how many would keep digging until there is no more metal detected? If there is trash everywhere then the odds are that there will be trash over the top of a potential treasure. I think this scenario happens a lot in the treasure hunting world. Is it the case at Rocky Bluff? It is definitly possible.

I know I am repeating myself but I will say it again for anyone just tuning in. A dowser picked up a signal from a half mile away. On his own with no prompting he led me to a specific spot and drew out a square on the ground. With his own devices he determined it to be silver at a depth of around five feet. Years later two guys came to the site and set up their own equipment. With no prompting or guidance from me they determined that a specific area gave them a reading for non-ferrous metal and they told me it was silver. Many years later a group of guys were put just about on the spot. With multiple electronics they determined that the exact same square area on the ground contained non-ferrous metal that they believed to be silver. I am now told that it was more of a case of wishful thinking that determined it to be silver. It is still non-ferrous but the guess now is that it's just a bunch of old phone line trash.

Throughout my entire treasure story I have watched what others have detected by various methods. I am not the dowser, LRL expert ot metal detector expert. I have watched all these events with a very close eye on the small details. I have pieced enough evidence together that I think it is worth whatever effort it takes on my part to figure out a way to dig this spot until whatever is there is found. I will dig as deep as it takes. It may be just junk two feet down. It could be a large cache maybe eight feet down. That is what this thread is all about. Obviously I have no problem straying from the main topic. Questions and comments are welcome.

Jon-When I met the FDOT officials I had no intention of talking about anything other then the Rocky Bluff site. I had a shirt with a small lighthouse and mastiff head just above the pocket. The head of operations asked me about it. I had my briefcase on the table in front of me. I had a folder that had different pictures in it. I showed them a few. This was in the last five minutes of our scheduled meeting. They all got a real kick out of the pictures. This put a more personal touch to our meeting. I will guarantee that they will remember me in a good way because of this. This is another case of where you just had to be there to understand what happened.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Have you tried the farting trick with FDOT?

 

[dogpound]

i wanna hear more about the 55 gal. drums of morgan dollars buried in PA

 

[Jeffro]

Jon Phillips- Good effort, I'll give ya that- well spoken.

 

[Jon Phillips]

Jon Phillips- Good effort, I'll give ya that- well spoken.

Thanks! But I'm afraid all that anyone will remember from my posts on this thread, is that T-net won't let you say "pu$$ycats" without censoring part of it!

 

[Jon Phillips]

Have you tried the farting trick with FDOT?

OK...I think that even Bigdogdad will have to admit that THAT is funny!!

 

[Bigdogdad]

BCH-No I didn't even think to show the FDOT my farting trick. I will admit that when it works, as it has in the past, it is quite impressive. What I was trying to do with the FDOT was to make some silver bars majically appear. I wanted them to be my assistants. I think a few of them would have been glad to go along. Unfortunately the head guy did not seem to be adventuresome or even appear to have a sense of humor. Oh well, what's a guy to do?

Jon- What I will remember you for was one of the very few people that came on this thread with intelligent questions and comments. Maybe if I had known you before I started this whole Rocky Bluff endeavour it would have been over one way on another.

I have no hidden agenda here. My motives are very obvious. I am looking for attention. I want to dig up treasure. I want to become rich and famous. I see nothing wrong with any of this. In today's world of reality TV it does not take much to be a star on your own show. Look how far the Jersey Shore group has gotten using their amazing talents at ...... being the Jersey shore group. Keeping up with the Kardashians? The're quite gifted at ........shopping? People make fun of all these types but they have become millionaires. Now that the're rich and famous they are using their position to ........make the average U.S. citizen look pretty ridiculous. I know BCH-I would want to share my amazing pyrotechnic skills. Actually I have a bigger agenda that I will not share on here. I have to save a few things.

dogpound-I never said morgan silver dollars. I just said silver dollars. Maybe its the same thing. I don't know much about coins. I do have two nickels that I enjoy rubbing together. Ah, yes. The PA trip. That trips original intent was to take Ovid to the house in New Jersey where the U-853 diamonds are buried. The owner of that house did not really like me. I had showed up a couple years earlier at 10 o'clock on a Friday night unanounnced. I knocked on their door and they refused to answer. I kept knocking. Two patrol cars came sliding up from different directions. It was not pretty. Read the book for more details. Dang if I keep talking on this thread there will be no point in reading the book. It will all be on this thread. Not really. The book is 289 pages and 75 pictures. No Jon, this only looks like I am advertising it on here.

After the homeowner refused to allow Ovid on his property (not Ovid's fault) we continued on to PA. Ovid had to stop frequently because his pancreatic cancer medications made him have to want to pee quite often. We stopped at a McDonald's in a very dark section of DC and the radiator of the treasure van popped. Long story. Oh yeah, the silver dollars.

Ovid told me he thought he knew where there was a 55 gallon drum filled with silver dollars buried. He had it marked on a map. It was either Eliphant or Elipont or something similar. When we got there it was late on a Saturday afternoon. He led me to an industrial park at the top of a hill. I drove in. He led me to a place where there was a chain link fence. Inside the fence was a big mound. He pointed at the mound and said the 55 gallon drum was buried in the middle of it. There was not much I could do about it at the time. You need to know that most of Ovid and my trips together were just usually long weekends. I had driven from SW Florida to pick him up in North Carolina to take him to New Jersey. How many people reading any of this would be willing to do what I have done. Yeah BCH I know most people just fart without trying to ignite it.

So here Ovid and I sit in the van with the new $350 dollar radiator. We are somehere in PA. I have a 200 pound mastiff named Dixie that came along for the ride. An unshaven lunatic in dark glasses, an old man in a ballcap sitting in the passenger seat swinging a brass pendulum, with a 200 pound dog sitting between them. The van had a large mural on the side. We looked like something out of a reality show. Unfortunately reality shows would not come along for another 20 years.

I asked Ovid if there was anywhere else he wanted to go. He pulled out a map of the southeastern U.S. He pointed to a spot south of Atlanta. He said there was a place that he believed had 12 saddlebags of gold coins buried next to a creek. He had been there in the past. I looked at the map and did a mental calculation of how far the drive would be and how long it would take. On the map it looked like about 12 inches. Heck that's not far at all. So off we went for more adventure.

dogpound-Could I find my way back to that mound of dirt? Maybe. Would it be unchanged since when I was there? Unlikely, but possible. Am I ready to drive up? No.

 

[vor]

i wanna hear more about the 55 gal. drums of morgan dollars buried in PA

Dogpound
Dont know anything about Morgans but I think that I am closing in on some wine glasses and about a billion pennies in PA. PM if you want me to send the map.

BDD
Not pertaining to this particular cache site of yours but there is an old saying when dealing with bureaucrats; "better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission".* It often works best with the saying "ignorance is bliss". May prove useful in the future.
Your comedy act photo may have sold a few more books for you.
Again, best of luck



*this is not intended to imply that you should do anything illegal