Pirate Chest: When to give up

[waybill]

I think the stories are great. hell half the fun is the search. if you believe the caches are there .don't give up just get more help.

 

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[Bigdogdad]

The postulation you presented is based on the belief that each of us, by utilizing far different search paradigms, achieve the same results-where treasure isn't.
I know you realize the irony in this.

Finding treasure is what I have been trying to do. It is like looking for a needle in a haystack. To make it harder it is like looking for one gold needle in a group of 50 haystacks. Now throw in hundreds of thousands of nails, beer tabs, nuts, bolts, rusty needles, stainless steel needles, aluminum needles and a bunch of other junk.

50 haystacks and one gold needle. The odds are greatly against you from the start. If you are concerned about the odds you may never even look. So where do you start? Someone says they have a device that can tell you which haystack the golden needle is in. What the heck, you let them try. Their device points at one haystack in particular. So you find out there are other people with different devices that they say can also tell you where they think the golden needle is. You give each one of them a shot at it. So let's say that 4 out of the 5 all point at the same haystack. Does that prove that it is the one? No it doesn't prove it but it would seem like a good place to start.

Ok so now what do you do? Some might say that the best way to find a needle in a haystack is to just jump right in. Maybe you will get lucky and find it. You could get your hands on every kind of gold needle finding electronic device you can get your hands on and start detecting thru the pile. It won't be easy because the detectors will not be able to tell the difference between the aluminum, stainless steel, lead, brass, and copper needles, and the one gold needle. Throw in all the other junk that is in the pile and the odds become greatly against you. Do you give up? How long will you keep looking? How do you know you are looking in the right stack? What if the needle has already been found?

ECS would do it this way. First he would find out the names of everybody involved in growing the hay. Then he would need to know the names of who piled it in stacks and exactly what the date of the stacking was. Then he would need to know the name of who put the golden needle in the stack. He would also want to find the whole history of hay making and stacking. There is probably lots of other information he would want to know before he would even consider looking for the golden needle but what he would also do is try to convince everyone else not to even bother looking because the whole story of the golden needle was probably just a made up legend, lore or fabrication of a story written by some story writer to have put in a treasure magazine so that people would buy detectors and far-fetched golden needle finding contraptions.

MY way-I just go by my gut instinct and jump head-first into the first pile that has that "feel" to it and then roll all around hoping that I get stuck by the needle and also hoping that the needle I get stuck by is the golden one as there are hundreds upon hundreds if not thousands upon thousands if not millions upon millions of needles that are not golden and are not worth a red cent. But "Hay" that's just me. But if that does not work I will give every person that claims to be able to find golden needles in a haystack a chance. If you don't look for it you will probably never find it. Most people take the easy way and just convince themselves the odds are too "stacked" against them.

 

[ECS]

Amusing, but not quite true. I do research the area, history, time period, and people who inhabited that area to deduce whether there is any substance behind the legend, lore and told tales.
I do know of two "high probability" sites based on this research and have posted the basic information on various threads with the disclaimer that both sites are on State controlled land. A third is on private property with an owner that is not fond of treasure hunters from past experiences.
Yes, BDD, I know the dates of when , the names of those involved, what was buried, and general location that grew from lore but was developed from research that included diaries from those involved, with historical references that back up the journals.
NOTICE: No gut instinct, remoter viewers, dowsers, or LRL operators were used for this post.

 

[Bigdogdad]

For every treasure where you can find a written history of everyone involved and all the details, there are probably 10,000 that were never written about in any way. How do you expect to ever find any of those? The more detailed information available the more likely the treasure has already been found. ECS-After all the research you have done you have only come up with three sites that YOU have determined to be "high probability"? Is this just your opinion or is there maybe a little gut instinct, or are you perhaps lacking this ability? As far as remote viewers go, the government, the military, oil companies and others use them for a reason.

NOTICE: No evidence of ECS actually digging for treasure has been shown in his posts.

I read somewhere that there may be as many as 1 million shipwrecks spread throughout the world. Some of them have a written history of all the details. These are the ones most likely to have already been found. Many others are found by accident or because treasure hunters are dragging magnetometers all over. Now because of satellite imaging many more are showing up. With all the new technology many more, and many of them very deep, will be found.

Just think how many buried treasures both big and small are waiting to be found. The best way to find them is to start looking.

If you can find a written history of any kind of treasure whether it is on land or in the water, try finding it. In the process you may find a different treasure that had no history.

 

[Salvor6]

Hey BDD how did your last dig go? Run into any problems?

 

[Bigdogdad]

Hey BDD how did your last dig go? Run into any problems?

Just the usual problems, junk EVERYWHERE. The target GPS number I was given for the possible iron box with gold coins turned out to be loaded with metal everywhere that I used any detector. The Pulse Star II buried the needle all around the old stump in the picture. The culvert pipes have been used for burning anything that gets thrown in them. If I am going to pursue this particular spot I will need to dig up the stump and scrape the ground down about a foot to get rid of all the surface scrap metal. I don't have a plan for what I am going to do next but I have a very interesting target to go after next week.

GPS target site.

 

[ECS]

... The bottom line is that I don't confess to know how the gold got there or who put it there, just that I think it is there. The old man that led me there was not relying on any story, he just had the ability to remote sense where gold is buried...

In addition to historical research, one must consider the population and economic demographics of a possible site.
The entire population in the State of Florida in 1850 was 87,455/ 1860-140,424/ 1890-391,422/ 1920-968,470, the largest concentration in 5 cities, as most of Florida was rural farmland, forests, swamps and wetlands.
While there existed plantations whose owners dealt in gold and silver specie, and may have purchased diamond jewelry for their wives, that vast majority of Florida homesteaders and settlers were NOT WEALTHY, most transactions were bartering with neighbors, and it is highly unlikely that a cache of gold, silver, or diamonds would be found in the former rural areas of Florida.

 

[Bigdogdad]

In addition to historical research, one must consider the population and economic demographics of a possible site.
The entire population in the State of Florida in 1850 was 87,455/ 1860-140,424/ 1890-391,422/ 1920-968,470, the largest concentration in 5 cities, as most of Florida was rural farmland, forests, swamps and wetlands.
While there existed plantations whose owners dealt in gold and silver specie, and may have purchased diamond jewelry for their wives, that vast majority of Florida homesteaders and settlers were NOT WEALTHY, most transactions were bartering with neighbors, and it is highly unlikely that a cache of gold, silver, or diamonds would be found in the former rural areas of Florida.

What does the population have to do with any of this? Most of Florida may have been as you describe but the coasts have always been different. That all may be true for the Ocala area of Florida where you live. Back then it was probably considered the "middle of nowhere". The southern Tampa bay area is different. I am not going to get into this endless argument with you about whether there is treasure to be found. I think there is lots of it and I know the history to back it up. You think there is none. Good for you. Stay home. Sit in front of your computer. I hope you have a good time. Of course you will never find buried treasure with your attitude.

 

[ECS]

What does the population have to do with any of this? Most of Florida may have been as you describe but the coasts have always been different. That all may be true for the Ocala area of Florida where you live. Back then it was probably considered the "middle of nowhere"...

For the "middle of nowhere", Ocala/ Fort King was at the very center of the Seminole Wars, where the first use of IED's were employed by Capt Gabriel Rains. Two other forts from that War, Fort Fowle and Fort Brook, were also used by the Confederacy, and by riverboat down the Oklawaha,, CSA Sec of State Benjamin, CSA Sec of War Breckinridge, and Jefferson Davis's nephew, Capt Wood took refuge from the Union, before leaving the country-they also carried a portion of the CSA treasury.
In 1903, the Lucas Line METAMORA steamboat, either hit a snag in the Oklawaha, or its boiler blew, two crewmen were killed, but the passengers escaped harm, before in sank. This occurred near Fort Fowle, where the Silver River meets the Oklawaha. Gold and silver coins, as well as whiskey shot glasses and bottles and other items have been found at this location, not the major cache of which you seek, but not bad for the "middle of nowhere".
http://fl-genweb.org/harun/ptnam/steamers/metamora.html

 

[Bigdogdad]

In Florida almost all the action and commerce has been on the coasts. Jacksonville, Miami, Ft Lauderdale, St Augustine, Tampa, Naples, Ft Myers, Key West, Sarasota. Compared to these locations Ocala was in the middle of nowhere. I know that is where you live but don't take it so personal. Orlando was in the middle of nowhere until Mickey Mouse came along. Other than some activity during the brief Seminole and Civil wars Ocala was just a small burg to pass thru if you were in the middle of the state. There probably is very little large treasure caches to be found in your area. The Tampa area is a hotbed for treasure stories.

ECS-Questions for you. This website is devoted to treasure and is called Treasurenet. This forum is called Cache Hunting and is devoted to buried treasure. For three years now you have been trying to convince me and everyone else reading this forum that there is very little buried treasure to be found and NONE in any of the locations where I think it is. You know you are wasting your time trying to change my mind so why are you trying to convince everybody else reading this thread and others I have started? What is your motivation about this? Do you think everyone believes what you have to say? Are you jealous because you live in a treasureless zone? Are you bothered by what I post? Are you trying to protect everyone that might want to associate with me?

 

[ECS]

... The Tampa area is a hotbed for treasure stories...

The key word here is "STORIES".
While during the short era of piracy, both coasts of Florida saw pirate activity, mainly as a refuge or base, such as Ross Island and Captiva Island, or like Fowlers Bluff as a site to careen their ship to scrape barnacles, the source stories of buried pirate treasure in Florida came from editors of Florida newspapers during the 1890's-1920's.
The most prolific was Adrian P Jordan, editor of the Punta Gorda Herald, writing tales of Florida pirates and buried treasure the entertainment of the newspaper's subscribers.
Jumping on that pirate bandwagon, Tampa Tribune society editor, Mary Louise Dodge, created the Jose Gaspar legend to give Tampa an instant "pirate history", so Tampa could have its own version of Marti Gras, Gasparilla.
The fact that Gaspar did not exist, did not deter a well known Tampa treasure hunter for searching for this nonexistent pirates nonexistent treasure, who bulldozed Native American burial mounds, destroyed wetlands and mangroves, and were arrested in 1992 for desecration of real historic sites.
In their unbridled quest to find an illusionary treasure, real Florida history was destroyed, causing the State to enact stronger laws governing treasure hunting.
Sometimes a treasure story is just that, a treasure story without any historical substance.
HISTORICAL NOTE: There were three Seminole Wars, from 1817-1858, making it the longest, deadliest, and expensive war fought by the US government aganist the Native American population, hardly a brief war.

 

[Bigdogdad]

Here are some facts for you. Feel free to deny they are the truth.

There was over 400 years of marine time activity along Florida's coasts.

Gold, silver, and jewels were part of the cargo of these ships.

There may have been logs of what was on the ships but many of them had no written record of what they carried.

Many ships were lost in hurricanes and there cargo may have been salvaged.

There were pirates, crooks, robbers, opportunists, bad guys, evildoers, scoundrels, and more that had their hands on gold, silver and jewels from these ships and had to hide them somewhere.

Some of these ships carried many tons of gold and silver.

The bad guys rarely kept a written record of what they stole so there is very little written history to research.

There are buried treasure caches all along the west coast of Florida.

Many of the caches are in the Tampa Bay and Charlotte Harbor area.

ECS-If you do not believe there is pirate treasure waiting to be found along the coast of Florida you do not belong on this thread, this forum or maybe even this website.

 

[ECS]

...
ECS-If you do not believe there is pirate treasure waiting to be found along the coast of Florida you do not belong on this thread, this forum or maybe even this website.

I believe that all threads on Treasure Net are open for discussion for all members, a dialog that can be both pro and con.

 

[ARC]

Sewer, drainfield, parking lot...whatever. Please dont take my comments personally. Its directed at Okiedowser. I thought what he said that he sees silver 4 foot further was a very cruel thing to do and the random conflicting dowsing presented thus far on this forum is worthless IMO..

Studies show emails are ALWAYS misunderstood and we are experiencing this phenomena here at TN lately.

This was why the Telephone was invented and became a hit...
And a typewriter is almost worthless now.
BUT...
People have reverted back to "texting"/"typing" again. Go figure... ;/

Texting sucks.

 

[ECS]

While there is no denying that the waters of Florida contain many shipwrecks, most historians agree that pirates did not bury their treasure, a belief that has grown from the novels of Robert Louis Stevenson and from Errol Flynn movies like" Captain Blood".
Most pirate ships were democratically run under the ships articles, and the captured assets were divided among the crew according these articles, based on the order of rank and position, lost limbs, and sometimes a bonus for valor during boarding actions.
It is also agreed that pirates spent their fortunes as fast as the seized them, knowing the average pirate lasted about four years in this occupation.
So the questions that needs to be asked: Who in a pirate crew would bury his treasure, knowing that he may never return to retrieve it? Was a crew members share worth the effort of burying?

 

[ARC]

While there is no denying that the waters of Florida contain many shipwrecks, most historians agree that pirates did not bury their treasure, a belief that has grown from the novels of Robert Louis Stevenson and from Errol Flynn movies like" Captain Blood".
Most pirate ships were democratically run under the ships articles, and the captured assets were divided among the crew according these articles, based on the order of rank and position, lost limbs, and sometimes a bonus for valor during boarding actions.
It is also agreed that pirates spent their fortunes as fast as the seized them, knowing the average pirate lasted about four years in this occupation.
So the questions that needs to be asked: Who in a pirate crew would bury his treasure, knowing that he may never return to retrieve it? Was a crew members share worth the effort of burying?

I would not agree with this... at all.
Pirates spent more time "away" from ports and such where money could have been spent... for one... and buried constantly as well as every other human on earth...
It has been the ONLY major way of "safekeeping" of valuables since the dawn of human times.
And pirates were THE buriers of loot... Almost always... What do you think they did ? roll around with stolen goods and treasure... heh.
I do not "who" this "study" or information lackie taught this... but it is pure BS.
No offense.

stolen goods and goods with marks... and goods with marks that have been removed could only be traded and sold in small amounts... and had to be "fenced"...
Piracy was a real problem and most MOST people did not like or deal with pirates...
The goal of pirates was to "cash out" at some point...
And many pirates ... in fact more than not lived long lives...
Only the known and famous ones are documented by the accounting through legends and familiarity of the exploits...
IN FACT... very little is known about this.
We do not hear of their stories in history... because they were never caught or killed.

Blah I could go on with this for days.

 

[Bigdogdad]

The movies about pirates and treasures are very unrealistic. I watched a movie last night I think it was called "Fools Gold " or something like that. A guy swam up from the bottom carrying a chest full of gold. He set it out of the water on a planes floats. In real life it would have weighed 400-500 pounds or more. There is no way in the world you can pick up one of these chests. Gold weighs I think about 60% more than lead. Fill your pockets with some diving lead weights and try walking around. You can't carry your treasure on you. Anyone hanging out along the coast is going to have some sort of camp so that they can obtain fresh water and food. It is a fact of life that you cannot live without it. There are only so many places on a ship that you may choose to hide something. Common sense would dictate burying it somewhere on land. I doubt anyone would show anybody else their hiding spot. Lot's of people die before they dig up their stash. This has been going on since man/woman existed.

Today we have banks and storage facilities to store our gold (if you have any). Even though we have all these secure places I know of friends and relatives that have buried "treasure" for safekeeping. I have been told by a number of people about modern day buried treasure. I do not know why ECS is so obsessed with trying to convince anyone that it does not exist in any large amounts. He goes against the very spirit of this website and although he is certainly allowed to state his beliefs he is just plain WRONG.

 

[ECS]

... There are only so many places on a ship that you may choose to hide something. Common sense would dictate burying it somewhere on land... ECS... goes against the very spirit of this website and although he is certainly allowed to state his beliefs he is just plain WRONG.

"Pirates took their loot to notorious pirate hang-outs in Port Royal and Torguga. PIRATES DIDN'T BURY THEIR MONEY. They blew it as soon as they could on women and booze"- Cori Convertito, Assistant Curator of Education/
MEL FISHER MARITIME MUSEUM, Key West, Florida.
Is Convertito also "just plain WRONG"?

 

[ECS]

...
I do not "who" this "study" or information lackie taught this... but it is pure BS.
...

See my post above for the name of that lackey and his credentials.

 

[ARC]

ECS... Do you know how many chests have been removed and found in Florida soil alone ? heh I can count 20 + REAL accounts....
Try Texas and Louisiana combined... another 20 + REAL accounts...
Now RESEARCH all the other states.
This is and has been a COMMON occurrence throughout history...

Sheesh I just posted another chest of gold found a few months back in Asia.

P.S> AND these are just the ones that are FACTUAL... and reported...
Once while redoing a road in Miami beach 13 chests at once were recovered.
How many are kept quite ?
More than not.