Odyssey treasure will go to Spain!

[jeff of pa]

Alexandre...you owe this forum an apology. I don't express my views often on T-net, but your comment was insulting, and shows your actual, and up till now, well-disguised contempt for the US, it's citizens, and it's greatness. Your ugly comment warrants an apology, but I'm not crossing my fingers. You seem to take pride in your own arrogance....but that is sooo European.

Nothing personal, just stating the facts:

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-18/...melstein-debate-over-health-care?_s=PM:HEALTH

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-died-pneumonia-afford-health-insurance.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171

http://www.daytondailynews.com/opin...oman-without-insurance-dies-at-32-298912.html

http://echealthinsurance.com/fl-dying-for-coverage.pdf

Please these Types of posts are as Politically
motivated as the Links you provided.
& what arn't motivated by Politicians
are by Insurance companies trying to stir
up Buisness, and Foreign Propaganda Specialists.
I'm one of the first ones to say this country
leaves alot to be desired, But posts like this are not
about Odyssey, Cause alot of Arguments, & Insults,
and are not apprciated on TreasureNet.

Thanks for your Understanding
Jeff

 

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[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy,

Couldn't you tell that my tongue was firmly in my cheek?

Mariner

Just got to be careful with the want to be pirates

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Alexandre...you owe this forum an apology. I don't express my views often on T-net, but your comment was insulting, and shows your actual, and up till now, well-disguised contempt for the US, it's citizens, and it's greatness. Your ugly comment warrants an apology, but I'm not crossing my fingers. You seem to take pride in your own arrogance....but that is sooo European.

Nothing personal, just stating the facts:

http://articles.cnn.com/2009-09-18/...melstein-debate-over-health-care?_s=PM:HEALTH

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-died-pneumonia-afford-health-insurance.html

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/insurance-24-year-dies-toothache/story?id=14438171

http://www.daytondailynews.com/opin...oman-without-insurance-dies-at-32-298912.html

http://echealthinsurance.com/fl-dying-for-coverage.pdf

Please these Types of posts are as Politically
motivated as the Links you provided.
& what arn't motivated by Politicians
are by Insurance companies trying to stir
up Buisness, and Foreign Propaganda Specialists.
I'm one of the first ones to say this country
leaves alot to be desired, But posts like this are not
about Odyssey, Cause alot of Arguments, & Insults,
and are not apprciated on TreasureNet.

Thanks for your Understanding
Jeff

Good to see a non basis moderator
Ossy

 

[ivan salis]

it seems no one wants to address my direct , simple and valid question -- what "right" does spain have to "claim" the 76 % of the coins that were on the cargo manifest as belonging to "private citizens" shipping money on the vessel ? -- the original owners of the coins being transported on the vessel have never been "paid off" for their loss-- (so by basic legal rights the coins still belong to those that lost them) -- so once spain takes its "full measure" value wize that was listed on the manifest as "royal money" 24% as listed on the manifest ,spain will in effect "have" all it had onboard at that time from the recovered coins --

what "right" does spain have to keep the remaining "private property" coins ? these coins owners are known as per the cargo manifest -- once spain gets their full measure the whole amount listed as the "kings / royal money" ---- should not the remaining leftover coins be split up on a total of the % of coins shipped as per the cargo manifest basis with the "hiers" of those that shipped the coins on the vessel? say owner A had 10% of the coins listed on the cargo manifest --once spain gets its "full measure" of coins from the recovered coins -- should not the heirs of "owner A" get 10% of the remaining coins? -- or does spain plan to just "keep it all" screwing the legal owners -- now lets see true spanish "justice" in action -- i waiting to see the lawful owners of 76% of the coins get what they deserve.

 

[Darren in NC]

it seems no one wants to address my direct , simple and valid question -- what "right" does spain have to "claim" the 76 % of the coins that were on the cargo manifest as belonging to "private citizens" shipping money on the vessel ?

Until the descendants of the private merchants come forward with a claim, the coins will remain in the custody of the Spanish gov't.

My intrigue is that what compels a gov't (with no desire for monetary gain and a struggling cashflow) to spend inordinate amounts of money to speedily transport tons of silver to their vaults. Are they really that committed to cultural heritage with other pressing needs in their budget?

 

[capt dom]

Until the descendants of the private merchants come forward with a claim, the coins will remain in the custody of the Spanish gov't.

My intrigue is that what compels a gov't (with no desire for monetary gain and a struggling cashflow) to spend inordinate amounts of money to speedily transport tons of silver to their vaults. Are they really that committed to cultural heritage with other pressing needs in their budget?
[/quote]

Answer:

Admiralty Attorney David Paul Horan submitted a brief (claim) in behalf of a number the original descendants, in the Federal Admiralty Action and got no where with it, abet this is now a part of the public record. The points both governments wished to make through this carnival act in the courts and media here is three fold:

1st Point: The Golden Rule: He with the gold rules....
2nd Point: The guys with the biggest guns make the rules....
3rd Point: See points 1 & 2.

One purchases justice in our 21st century feudal new world order...

 

[Michigan Badger]

Ah, it's a sad thing but often finders isn't keepers.

I tell beginning THers...keep your mouth shut!

The big treasure seekers are all into this "archeology" thing today. Most want to make documentaries and be famous. The smart ones search, dive, load, and bug off.

 

[Salvor6]

Alexandre and Ossy like it or not, Spanish warships will continue to be excavated and the artifacts sold in countries like Mozambique, Ecuador and soon in the Bahamas. These countries thumb their nose at Spain's claim to ownership. They say if the treasure is in our waters, it is OUR cultural heritage.
Also as a result of this many more Spanish galleons will be excavated without anyone knowing.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

My intrigue is that what compels a gov't (with no desire for monetary gain and a struggling cashflow) to spend inordinate amounts of money to speedily transport tons of silver to their vaults. Are they really that committed to cultural heritage with other pressing needs in their budget?

bang bang bang - "The meeting will come to order!"

"Good day my fellow government officials. We realize that most of the world is on the verge of bankruptcy but we'd like several million dollars to acquire, study and then display a few tons of coins that we aren’t truly positive came from the shipwreck we claim them to have come from…

But alas one cannot place a monetary value on the invaluable knowledge and betterment of the world for us to have our cultural patrimony on display."

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

it seems no one wants to address my direct , simple and valid question -- what "right" does spain have to "claim" the 76 % of the coins that were on the cargo manifest as belonging to "private citizens" shipping money on the vessel ?

Until the descendants of the private merchants come forward with a claim, the coins will remain in the custody of the Spanish gov't.

My intrigue is that what compels a gov't (with no desire for monetary gain and a struggling cashflow) to spend inordinate amounts of money to speedily transport tons of silver to their vaults. Are they really that committed to cultural heritage with other pressing needs in their budget?

Darren there's a thing called national pride, when you guys stop thinking about artifacts and coins as a way to get rich, you
might start to understand.
The coins and artifacts are not going to any Vaults, they will be shared with many museums around Spain and hopefully Peru.
Why does the US spend Millions on the up keep of its war memorials You have your answer
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Alexandre and Ossy like it or not, Spanish warships will continue to be excavated and the artifacts sold in countries like Mozambique, Ecuador and soon in the Bahamas. These countries thumb their nose at Spain's claim to ownership. They say if the treasure is in our waters, it is OUR cultural heritage.
Also as a result of this many more Spanish galleons will be excavated without anyone knowing.

Pete it will be yours and there loss with no History it's a piece of metal !
You forget Odyssey was in Spanish waters with the false pretense of looking for the Sussex.
Ossy

 

[capt dom]

The best publicist for what was "the Spains" which
by no means is the Espania of today - is the modern day treasure hunter.....

It is we who created and maintained - "the concept of value" for these coins and artifacts....
not the jackals who fight over them after the risk and effort have gone into their recovery.....

I fully understand the sensitive nature of Spain today.
In its past history.... the Moors trampled over them for centuries......

Then the Hapsburg Dynasty turned their peninsular to a place
to hang around in the winter time......

Then we have the communists..... then the fascists with Franco in the 1930's and 40's.....

It's about time you have something you all think to brag about..... as the rest of European
economy crumbles....
which amounts to probably being picked over junk by first its finders {good for them} and
then the holier than tho... NGC cronies..... HA, ha... Ha.....

that you all will end up fighting
over among yourselves for the
next decade or so.....

But I remember... I am the stupid one.....
another thing they say...

"ignorance is bliss!"

 

[Au_Dreamers]

The coins and artifacts are not going to any Vaults, they will be shared with many museums around Spain and hopefully Peru.
Ossy

and violating the UNESCO convention they've agreed to.

So I guess we now can see the sheeps in wolves clothing, like the Azores and their commitment to cultural patrimony and preserving the world's submerged cultural heritage when it is self serving they abandon those ideals and opt for what benefits them the most.

I'd rather be on a ship of pirates because they will be honest enough to tell me that they will "pee" on me, unlike these bureaucrats who will tell me they aren't peeing on me, it's only raining!

 

[Alexandre]

Alexandre and Ossy like it or not, Spanish warships will continue to be excavated and the artifacts sold in countries like Mozambique, Ecuador and soon in the Bahamas. These countries thumb their nose at Spain's claim to ownership. They say if the treasure is in our waters, it is OUR cultural heritage.
Also as a result of this many more Spanish galleons will be excavated without anyone knowing.

It cant be worst than it is today. But, eventually, everybody will sign the UNESCO Convention. It's a matter of time.

 

[Alexandre]

So I guess we now can see the sheeps in wolves clothing, like the Azores and their commitment to cultural patrimony and preserving the world's submerged cultural heritage when it is self serving they abandon those ideals and opt for what benefits them the most.

Between Portugal and Spain, I am guessing that 95% of all treasure carrying ships are now legally off limits for treasure hunters.

Everybody would love to go to the Azores and check on all those 255 treasure carrying ships that are sunk there... too bad,Portugal has signed the Unesco's Convention. So, dream on.

 

[Vox veritas]

So I guess we now can see the sheeps in wolves clothing, like the Azores and their commitment to cultural patrimony and preserving the world's submerged cultural heritage when it is self serving they abandon those ideals and opt for what benefits them the most.

Between Portugal and Spain, I am guessing that 95% of all treasure carrying ships are now legally off limits for treasure hunters.

Everybody would love to go to the Azores and check on all those 255 treasure carrying ships that are sunk there... too bad,Portugal has signed the Unesco's Convention. So, dream on.

Alexandre,
I much respect your opinion, but I can't understand how Spain and Portugal, with a huge unemployment rate, with hungry people, reduced the cost of schools, medicine, social work, think seriously about not retrieve these treasures for social purposes. No, there is something that is hiding behind, there are vested interests who do not want to know. Once Mario Soares told a friend of mine, that did not believe in "El Dorados". We both know that there are and many.
Cordialmente VV

 

[Alexandre]

Alexandre,
I much respect your opinion, but I can't understand how Spain and Portugal, with a huge unemployment rate, with hungry people, reduced the cost of schools, medicine, social work, think seriously about not retrieve these treasures for social purposes. No, there is something that is hiding behind, there are vested interests who do not want to know.

Vox, I dont they sell in an auction the contents of the Prado and of the Reina Sofia Museums? That would be easier...

 

[wildman4910]

Kudos to Spain and its relentless pursuit of justice and underwater cultural heritage protection.

"underwater cultural heritage protection"

Wow you actually swallowed that crap?

Code for we want it for our coffers & wasteful programs regardless who ponied up the $ to find & recover it.

Time for we didn't find nothing & a quick dump overboard if they try to take it!

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Kudos to Spain and its relentless pursuit of justice and underwater cultural heritage protection.

"underwater cultural heritage protection"

Wow you actually swallowed that crap?

Code for we want it for our coffers & wasteful programs regardless who ponied up the $ to find & recover it.

Time for we didn't find nothing & a quick dump overboard if they try to take it!

So what the difference, You were notifying authority's before And of cause the Spanish Embassy
Just like Mel Fisher, how much did he share with Spain Yep one Cannon !!!!!
It's not Spain you going to have to worry about it's your own government.
Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Alexandre and Ossy like it or not, Spanish warships will continue to be excavated and the artifacts sold in countries like Mozambique, Ecuador and soon in the Bahamas. These countries thumb their nose at Spain's claim to ownership. They say if the treasure is in our waters, it is OUR cultural heritage.
Also as a result of this many more Spanish galleons will be excavated without anyone knowing.

So Pete, were these country's notifying Spain before Whats changed
Ossy