Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

[b3y0nd3r]

Ok then, I'll bite: If can agree that 99% is "true" (names, dates, events, fibers, squiggles on rocks, U's, logs, strange lights, etc...), and that 1% is false (the supposed treasure part), then :

What are we talking about ? If you acknowledge there's no proof of treasure (the 1% of the proof), then ....... what are we all here talking about ? Why does anyone care about "fibers" ? "uncanny out of place squiggles" ? etc... ? Heck, I can walk out my own front door, and ... within a mile of my house, find every single thing that's talked about in this legend. Ok, so what ? If we can all agree that they don't necessarily mean "treasure", then : What are we talking about ?

Maybe by studying the story(which you are conceding as 99% true), we can determine what exactly went on there. I can't recall anywhere in the world or in recorded history, that something like OI happened before.

Is this treasure? A burial vault? A sink hole? An alien base? An elaborate water system? The Templars personal smoker? The resting place of such powerful old world objects that have been hidden from mankind? A mistake?

To write it off as a most probable is a dis-service.

I was a guard at a bank this actually happened to me:

A guy walks into a bank with a ski-mask on and a shotgun in his hand. What do you think his most probable intentions were?

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

.... I can't recall anywhere in the world or in recorded history, that something like OI happened before.....

Then this is where we diverge. Because I bet I can walk out my front door, in Monterey, CA, and walk in a one-mile circle radius of my home, and find ALL SORTS of "unexplained mysteries", similar to O.I.

Eg.: things here that could be "masonic markers" (if you stood on one foot and squinted real hard). And out-of-place trees, fibers, stones, etc... And then study the history books to find real accounts of people/ships in the 1600 & 1700s that skirted by our coast. And can come up with newspaper clipping of TH'ing exploits and finds here from 50 to 100 yrs. ago. And conjecture all sorts of treasures that pirates might have left. And come up with all sorts of logical sounding rationals for why-they-might have wanted to do so, etc....

Thus, no, I don't agree that O.I. is unique. YES IT'S UNIQUE on each individual detail (ie.: the size of a fiber or U or stone or squiggle, etc...). But not unique on the stories that such things could generate. Given enough speculative imaginations.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... I was a guard at a bank this actually happened to me:

A guy walks into a bank with a ski-mask on and a shotgun in his hand. What do you think his most probable intentions were?

You and I would agree that the "most plausible" explanation for the fellow with the gun and ski mask is: Robbery. Are you trying to imply that the details of O.I. (which are mostly all narrative "legend", in the first place) are on par with your gun/mask/robbery example ? That the O.I. details show "treasure", to the same degree as mask/gun/robbery analogy ?

If so, then we disagree on the preponderance of evidence , and where it points. I do not equate the "certainty" of the O.I. story/details = treasure, to have any equality with the gun/mask = robbery example details.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Then this is where we diverge. Because I bet I can walk out my front door, in Monterey, CA, and walk in a one-mile circle radius of my home, and find ALL SORTS of "unexplained mysteries", similar to O.I.

But no one searching for treasure there.

You and I would agree that the "most plausible" explanation for the fellow with the gun and ski mask is: Robbery. Are you trying to imply that the details of O.I. (which are mostly all narrative "legend", in the first place) are on par with your gun/mask/robbery example ? That the O.I. details show "treasure", to the same degree as mask/gun/robbery analogy ?

It turned out he was going to a Halloween party. I was trying to show that it is easy to misconstrue something and back it whole heartily based on pre-judement without facts.

If so, then we disagree on the preponderance of evidence , and where it points. I do not equate the "certainty" of the O.I. story/details = treasure, to have any equality with the gun/mask = robbery example details.

I can agree that that OI event doesn't mean treasure. But it could mean it.

see above

 

[Tom_in_CA]

But no one searching for treasure there.

RIGHT ! And why aren't they searching for treasure there ?? Because there is not evidence of treasure ! Hint hint.

And so too is the "salacious details" of O.I. not indicative of treasure. No-more-so than anyone can infer all sorts of nefarious conspiratorial mysterious details of almost any place on earth, if they looked long enough and hard enough.

I can agree that that OI event doesn't mean treasure. But it could mean it.

Ok. Sure. So too could the long list of mysterious things I can find within a mile of my house "could mean treasure". Sure. But ... not once I look at preponderance of evidence. And not once I look at the more plausible explanations.

 

[PirateLabs]

Sorry, the burden of proof rests with the prosecution. I think you are referring to Sam Ball

No, I was talking about civil cases where anyone can sue or allege anything and the Claimant has the burden of proof as there is no prosecution. Yes, Sam Ball...exactly. Thank you. I could not remember his name earlier at all.

Bill

 

[PirateLabs]

I was a guard at a bank this actually happened to me:

A guy walks into a bank with a ski-mask on and a shotgun in his hand. What do you think his most probable intentions were?

It is obvious. He wants to make a withdrawal. (Sorry, I could not help myself)


Bill

 

[Carl-NC]

LOL WOW! So you believe, these are all correct explanations?

I agree they may be the most plausible, but that doesn't mean anything without PROOF! Yep, I expect that if someone makes speculations like Carl did, they need to back it up with proof.

I've said before, proofs are for distillers & mathematicians. There is no proof on either side here. This is a case where there is a story, speculation, and evidence. The evidence could be explained by a fantastic story of buried treasure, or it could all be explained by ordinary, mundane circumstance. I apply Occam's Razor to arrive at mundane. And that is supported by the most ultimate and overwhelming evidence of all: absolutely zero recovery in 220 years of trying.

There are a lot of other treasure legends similar to OI. Many in other nearby forums. I tend to look at these legends in terms of probability. Beale has a false probability of 99.5%. Lost Adams has a false probability of maybe 85%. Victorio, I'd give it 95% false. OI is better than 99.99% false. My grading is based on the quality of evidence, and OI has astonishingly low quality evidence.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... the most ultimate and overwhelming evidence of all: absolutely zero recovery in 220 years of trying.....

How is that overwhelming evidence against the notion of treasure there ? Instead, that would just be "overwhelming evidence" that the treasure is: A) a little more to the right. B) a little more to the left. C) a little deeper. NOT that there's "no treasure".

 

[b3y0nd3r]

There is no such thing as a skeptic, just people that refuse to listen and there are a lot of skeptics here.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

There is no such thing as a skeptic, just people that refuse to listen .....

Love these definitions. Everything you're saying here is true, if we start with the premise that: "There is treasure". Then, YES: Those that didn't believe (ie.: the skeptics) "haven't listened".

But since when is this the starting premise ?

This is what is known in logic as: "Assuming what you are trying to prove, ... as evidence of your proof for it. "

Maybe your statement would be true, if you showed that starting implied premise to be true. Eh ?

 

[Carl-NC]

There is no such thing as a skeptic, just people that refuse to listen and there are a lot of skeptics here.

A skeptic is someone who is unconvinced by the available evidence. In your opinion, what is the strongest piece of physical evidence that supports the existence of a buried treasure on OI?

 

[b3y0nd3r]

A skeptic is someone who is unconvinced by the available evidence. In your opinion, what is the strongest piece of physical evidence that supports the existence of a buried treasure on OI?

None. I have stated time and again I am just interested in debating the presented evidence. I can't make any conclusion of if there is/was/wasn't a treasure at this juncture without discussing the presented evidence first.

If you want me to speculate, I already have.

See it's the same thing over and over. People not listening. But I really don't blame any skeptic for listening as it would take a lot of work to disprove any of it.

 

[PirateLabs]

Speaking of "evidence", there has been mention of the gold linked chain found on the auger and I also recall some folks saying that is just part of the legend or myth yet I remember, back in the early 1970's I believe it was, reading about Oak Island in a nice 4 color magazine (Time, Newsweek, Life?) and they had a color photo of an auger bit with a short bit of dainty gold chain clinging to it along with mud. Does this photo exist? Has it been posted here or somewhere on Tnet? Was that just a plant so the treasure hunter could get more money from his investors? Am I remembering incorrectly?

Does anyone know of the photo I am speaking of? We all have heard the story/legend/myth but I swear I saw a photo in some magazine because that really convinced me that there might be something to the story of the treasure.

Bill

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Speaking of "evidence", there has been mention of the gold linked chain found on the auger and I also recall some folks saying that is just part of the legend or myth yet I remember, back in the early 1970's I believe it was, reading about Oak Island in a nice 4 color magazine (Time, Newsweek, Life?) and they had a color photo of an auger bit with a short bit of dainty gold chain clinging to it along with mud. Does this photo exist? Has it been posted here or somewhere on Tnet? Was that just a plant so the treasure hunter could get more money from his investors? Am I remembering incorrectly?

Does anyone know of the photo I am speaking of? We all have heard the story/legend/myth but I swear I saw a photo in some magazine because that really convinced me that there might be something to the story of the treasure.

Bill

To the skeptics, everything is a plant, everyone is lying, it's all about the money, and nothing you can say or do can change that.

For example; If the brothers were to find a fabulous treasure in the pit, it would be scrutinized to death and never believed to be real. Why do you ask? Because, everyone before them were absolutely flawless in their search techniques!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

To the skeptics, everything is a plant, everyone is lying, it's all about the money,....

b3y0nd3r : On the contrary :

a) the various salacious details aren't necessarily " planted "

b) all the people are QUITE sincere (just as you are sincere about this).

c) how could it be about "money" ? What has any skeptic here on this forum gained financially from this, for being skeptical of this ?

As for point (a) : This assumes

1) that the misc. details are true, in the first place. They could be an INNOCENT outcome of telephone game. Where NO ONE along the daisy-chain, was anything less than sincere.

2) that the misc. details mean anything to with treasure, in the first place. As we've said before: Even if we grant "fibers" and "squiggles on rocks" and "links", ... so what ? I can find all those things within a mile of my house, as I've said many times. They don't necessarily mean treasure. Hence: So what ?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... If the brothers were to find a fabulous treasure in the pit, it would be scrutinized to death and never believed to be real....

On the contrary, I'd be the first to believe, eat crow, etc...

 

[Stretch Da Truth]

This thread is quite the train wreck now. Use to be fun but it has gone to the pits.... no, not the Money Pit.

Robot had some interesting stuff way back but now it's like a bunch of 3rd graders pointing fingers. Reminds me of work! LOL

 

[Robot]

As I Have Said Before...Eating Crow...Is Best Served...Cold!

On the contrary, I'd be the first to believe, eat crow, etc...

 

[Robot]

Time To Get Back...On The Road Again!

This thread is quite the train wreck now. Use to be fun but it has gone to the pits.... no, not the Money Pit.

Robot had some interesting stuff way back but now it's like a bunch of 3rd graders pointing fingers. Reminds me of work! LOL

New and Interesting Theories...Coming Up!