New site?...with different clue versions?

[deducer]

Say, while we're at it, what exactly is the so-called "Treasure of Santa Fe"? Santa Fe NM's history under Spanish and Mexican rule gives no indication of wealth of any kind ever existing there - in fact, just the opposite if you read the numerous reports and journal entries by locals, travelers, traders, trappers, et al, ca 1508-1847. Basically, the place was always a threadbare outpost, subsisting on feeble support from Mexico and whatever taxes could be shaken down from locals. What is the provenance of this "T of SF" term, other than being recently attached to the rock maps?

Steve,

If you look at the Anno Mariano map, your answer is in the upper left corner. Think about what Santa Fe translates to, in English.

 

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[PotBelly Jim]

No offense taken. It was a message meant for only one of their kind. For someone who wouldn't have to reach for a bible to understand what was going on. Probably also hoping that everyone else's eyes just rolls back up into their heads.

Good to hear, as no offense was meant

I think no theory should be disregarded outright. My take on it has always been from my own experiences. It is no better or worse than anyone else's.

Earlier I said that the map maker "got close" to Florence Prison. Just to be clear, the prison wasn't on the USGS Florence map yet, so whoever made the stone maps had to "guess", or place the prison, on the map.

How far was he off? He nailed the latitude, which is pretty impressive on a 1:125,000 scale map. He was off by 3960' to the east. To put that in perspective, 1/10th of an inch on the map represents 12,500" on the ground.

So he was not far at all off (EDIT: 3/10") of the real location of Florence Prison on the map. Impressive work, even if we were talking about an experienced map user, say a military targeteer...not that maps are used for targeting anymore...but we used to have to rely on maps and understand how accurate they were when considering calls for fire or close air support.

IMO, you just can't get any more accurate than that. Whoever made the stone maps located Florence Prison to acceptable, even impressive, standards.

 

[wrmickel1]

If indicating an accurate distance on land, surveyors have been using chains and links for the past 400 years. 18 chains, 47 links is 1111 feet, or 339 meters, or 400 varas (in Texas). Name your poison. How about 47 chains, 18 links - 2832 feet. Tricky, tricky.

What if it's an azimuth? You could say it's 184.7°, a little west of south. Or 1847/360=5.1°, a little east of north. Read backwards, it could be 74.81°, a little north of east. How tricky do you want to make it? You can make it point wherever you want to.

Yes, it could very well be a date. Why not? In fact, 1847 could be damned near anything a mapmaker wanted it to be on his proprietary map, including worthless eyewash if the whole thing is some sort of misleading hoax.

Say, while we're at it, what exactly is the so-called "Treasure of Santa Fe"? Santa Fe NM's history under Spanish and Mexican rule gives no indication of wealth of any kind ever existing there - in fact, just the opposite if you read the numerous reports and journal entries by locals, travelers, traders, trappers, et al, ca 1508-1847. Basically, the place was always a threadbare outpost, subsisting on feeble support from Mexico and whatever taxes could be shaken down from locals. What is the provenance of this "T of SF" term, other than being recently attached to the rock maps?

Well such a dubious collection of travels on your list.

Would you display your Wealth. Kinda a dim witted post to the obvious.

Don’t take that as a insult to you. Take it as a thumps up for the people that lived the Times.

Babymick1

 

[wrmickel1]

Good to hear, as no offense was meant

I think no theory should be disregarded outright. My take on it has always been from my own experiences. It is no better or worse than anyone else's.

Earlier I said that the map maker "got close" to Florence Prison. Just to be clear, the prison wasn't on the USGS Florence map yet, so whoever made the stone maps had to "guess", or place the prison, on the map.

How far was he off? He nailed the latitude, which is pretty impressive on a 1:125,000 scale map. He was off by 3960' to the east. To put that in perspective, 1/10th of an inch on the map represents 12,500" on the ground.

So he was not far at all off (EDIT: 3/10") of the real location of Florence Prison on the map. Impressive work, even if we were talking about an experienced map user, say a military targeteer...not that maps are used for targeting anymore...but we used to have to rely on maps and understand how accurate they were when considering calls for fire or close air support.

IMO, you just can't get any more accurate than that. Whoever made the stone maps located Florence Prison to acceptable, even impressive, standards.

Hog wash has nothing to do with the prison. Sheees

babymick1

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Hog wash has nothing to do with the prison. Sheees

babymick1

111 18' 07" W
33 02' 03" N

(That's 33 2'3.00"N/111 18'7.00"W on Google Earth)

Heck of a coincidence then

 

[arcana-exploration]

Looked to me like he was always on the verge of slipping and sliding down a rock face when he took those pics...action shots...then again, sounds like maybe he just got a bum camera that was returned by someone else before he got it? All I know is that I will definitely pitch in for a new SH camera...if it means I won't have to look at all those fuzzy pics again! Dave get a "collection" coffee can ready for the rendezvous!



I'm not a treasure hunter, but I'll take your word for it...not to mention that the way that Bible books and passages are numbered, and the cryptic passages contained within, makes sense to me that one could generate just about any Bible code for just about anything they wanted to say.

Not to say Deducer is wrong, I would imagine he's qualified to opine on such matters. Same with SH or anyone else. I'm just looking at it from a different perspective, one that fits my particular background. I don't know if what I think is right or not, just how I see things.

Jeff: Eusebio Chini (Kino) was an Italian, from an Italian family...not Austrian...he was a Trentino, which at the time of his birth was an somewhat independent principality of the Holy Roman Empire. Austria was one of the major powers within the Holy Roman Empire, and frequently took control of Trent...but Kino wasn't Austrian. This was during the 30 Years War, and every good Catholic would have viewed the Habsburgs and Austria as defenders of the faith, when it seemed every European country was ganging up on them, including France, another Catholic country...bad time to be a German...anyway, I've read that Kino went to school in Austria.

Thanks, Jim I need to correct that also on my site he was schooled in Innsbruck and spent many years there, which still would give him an Austro-German background, but I need to make that correction on our site. Thanks for that. However, I have to look through my notes, I am sure I read somewhere that was challenged, and he was actually found to be raised shortly after birth in a region in Austria that spoke a mixed dialect. I have to see if I can find that, it was something that contradicted the excepted facts, I will post it if I can find it?

 

[arcana-exploration]

Thanks, Jim I need to correct that also on my site he was schooled in Innsbruck and spent many years there, which still would give him an Austro-German background, but I need to make that correction on our site. Thanks for that. However, I have to look through my notes, I am sure I read somewhere that was challenged, and he was actually found to be raised shortly after birth in a region in Austria that spoke a mixed dialect. I have to see if I can find that, it was something that contradicted the excepted facts, I will post it if I can find it?

I need another coffee, wake up America, That was Waltz, not Kino my bad, geez La weez, Thanks Jim

 

[azdave35]

Hog wash has nothing to do with the prison. Sheees

babymick1

it has everything to do with the coords...that came directly from the family of the man who carved them...

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I need another coffee, wake up America, That was Waltz, not Kino my bad, geez La weez, Thanks Jim

I know the feeling.



You may want to check out Dr. Glover's new book, if you're looking for information on Jacob Waltz. Dr. Oertel found that Waltz had attended Schloss Hohenheim in the Stuttgart area. Seems ol' Jake was an "Oconom" or economics major.

Kind of makes the story of Waltz sitting down and helping Julia figure out all her business debts...ring true?

 

[Al D]

Cause it does mean Something, A Official Church Document.
In the year of Are lord 1847,

babymick1

As long as you continue to believe that 1847 is a date, you will never find the solution to the tablets

 

[Oroblanco]

alan_m wrote

I think the history of these stones proves otherwise, there has yet to be a reasonable solution to them

Have to agree with what others already posted on this point, there have been a number of reasonable solutions to the stone maps. The trouble is that these solutions have not yet produced treasure(s) and/or mines to prove those solution(s) correct.

People often have a tendency to over-think things, and over-analyze as well. A fair case could be made that the whole purpose of the stone maps was to tell a story, which did not include finding any treasure. 'hunting eighteen places' for example. As Deducer pointed out, the cryptic symbols on the stones could be very simple symbols without hidden meanings. I have heard that highly intelligent people are more likely to be over-thinking, over-analyzing problems, which can be preventing them from seeing the obvious and simply solution.

Have to disagree (respectfully) that believing the 1847 is a date would be preventing anyone from finding the solution to the stone maps. The simple answer is that date is just that, a date, intended to mark the date. With mining claims, the strongest legal claim (if contested in court) goes to the first to claim the site, requiring a date as proof of the discovery and staking. If the 1847 were intended to be broken into 18 chains, 47 links or any other reason to break up the four digits, then why would the carver bother to put the four numbers together in the first place? There are single numbers and double digits engraved on the stones. They are together because it is intended to be that very number, not split into degrees or chains or feet or leagues.

 

[markmar]

IMO, the 1847 numbers on the stone maps don't represent a date.
I will post in my thread " The stone maps and their concept " about these numbers meaning.

 

[Oroblanco]

IMO, the 1847 numbers on the stone maps don't represent a date.
I will post in my thread " The stone maps and their concept " about these numbers meaning.

If it is NOT a date, then why did the carver use it that way, "1847"? Is it just a coincidence that particular year would have been during the Mexican war, when any Mexican who had a mine north of the Gila river would have serious doubts as to whether he would be able to keep his mine?

 

[Oroblanco]

Postscript, to clarify.

I suspect (strongly) that the Peralta Stone Maps might have been carved to tell the story of how the creator was searching for the Peralta Treasure. Travis T. He included the details as he understood them from a Peralta Treasure legend.

This would not automatically mean that the maps are false maps, he might have carved the maps to match the information he had, which unfortunately for him did not result in a successful discovery and recovery of any treasure or mines. Sort of similar to the way some ancient authors wrote religious treatises, then put the name of a famous Apostle as the author. Not intended to fool or defraud, but they felt they were creating something that SHOULD exist. Filling the void as it were.

Of course everyone is entitled to believe what ever they wish to, concerning the PSMs. I believe I will get another coffee!

 

[markmar]

If it is NOT a date, then why did the carver use it that way, "1847"? Is it just a coincidence that particular year would have been during the Mexican war, when any Mexican who had a mine north of the Gila river would have serious doubts as to whether he would be able to keep his mine?

These maps have nothing to do with Mexico as state and the 1847 numbers are not a date IMHO.
Just something to have to think about, is if someone could stake a claim on the stone maps spot. No,this never could happened. Why? Because nobody can stake a claim on an archaeological site.

 

[sdcfia]

Steve,

If you look at the Anno Mariano map, your answer is in the upper left corner. Think about what Santa Fe translates to, in English.

Sure, it means "holy faith," a religious concept. It also means "Santa Fe", the NM capital city. There's also a sword in the upper left corner, which can also represent two different things - actually three, if my opinion is correct.

If we eliminate the concept of a physical treasure in a physical location, you might offer that we're left with sort of a spiritual treasure to be sought. This idea is reminiscent of "by the cross and this horse of God", a passage on the grand parchment of Rennes le Chateau, another "treasure mystery" in the French Pyrenees. That French passage nearly matches "EL COBOLLO DE SANTA FE" on the horse stone. Strange association.

If what you are saying is that the treasure maps are only symbolic of man's spiritual awareness quest, you're not alone - my deceased mentor JW forwarded that idea as related to the so-called KGC/Masonic caches.

However, IMO that concept likely won't satisfy most of the folks who are looking for precious metals.

 

[arcana-exploration]

As long as you continue to believe that 1847 is a date, you will never find the solution to the tablets

Allen as I stated earlier the maps are a fustercluck. Do you believe the map's value on the stones, could have been, altered more than once at least twice? Is it possible, that 1847 was put on there to deceive, and that it means the date(which most people would think) but it actually, also means something else also? IMO I think that as time went forward people added things for various reasons. For example, someone felt it was a distance but they were anglo so they converted Vara's down to feet but it came to let's say about 1850 feet and then they realized if they used 1847 that would mislead people, but not them or their associates. I know you think it is stepping stone info, a sort of progression it could be. I also you said nothing is of value with the possible distances. So my question to you does it seem possible that there have been altercations to the origanal? If that is the case it would seem to me that anything is possible.

 

[Oroblanco]

Forgot to add this, something Steve had posted about Santa Fe (NM) being a relatively poor isolated outpost of the Spanish colonial empire.

Santa Fe was the capital of the province of New Mexico. The governor's palace was located there.

By 1847 Santa Fe NM was the terminus of the famous Santa Fe Trail, which had been pioneered by Spanish explorers in the late 18th century. The city was an important trading center between Mexico and the USA, involving silver, hides, and slaves among other commodities.

So while that post about Santa Fe being relatively poor and isolated, it was only for a portion of its history. By the 1840s it was far more important and more prosperous.

 

[deducer]

Sure, it means "holy faith," a religious concept. It also means "Santa Fe", the NM capital city. There's also a sword in the upper left corner, which can also represent two different things - actually three, if my opinion is correct.

If we eliminate the concept of a physical treasure in a physical location, you might offer that we're left with sort of a spiritual treasure to be sought. This idea is reminiscent of "by the cross and this horse of God", a passage on the grand parchment of Rennes le Chateau, another "treasure mystery" in the French Pyrenees. That French passage nearly matches "EL COBOLLO DE SANTA FE" on the horse stone. Strange association.

If what you are saying is that the treasure maps are only symbolic of man's spiritual awareness quest, you're not alone - my deceased mentor JW forwarded that idea as related to the so-called KGC/Masonic caches.

However, IMO that concept likely won't satisfy most of the folks who are looking for precious metals.

Except it's La Santa Fe which rules out any relation to the city, and it's actually a dagger that you're looking at, very identical to the one on the upper trail stone map, with the hilt also pointing to the right.

El Cobollo de Santa Fe in colloquial Spanish means "I am a servant of the holy faith."

 

[Oroblanco]

Except it's La Santa Fe which rules out any relation to the city, and it's actually a dagger that you're looking at, very identical to the one on the upper trail stone map, with the hilt also pointing to the right.

El Cobollo de Santa Fe in colloquial Spanish means "I am a servant of the holy faith."

Wouldn't that be 'I am the HORSE of the holy faith"?