New site?...with different clue versions?

[somehiker]

Yeah been to Casa Grande, Did you notice right above the Entrance it’s Clearly Marked With A 7.

The Sabbath

wrmickel1

Yes, the Sabbath day. Also the numeric equivalent of Cursum Perficio.
Kino gave services for the natives at Casa Grande.
I've come across 7's in other places.
But none as big as this one.....

 

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[arcana-exploration]

The Hohokam were doing alright, with the extensive canal systems and wide range of crops making them one of the largest and most successful civilizations in the Western Hemisphere. They were part of a huge trading network that stretched from the Four Corners, down to Central Mexico, and from the Pacific Coast, as far east as the Rio Grande. Likely played a part as middle men to some degree as well, since most of the trade crossed their territory, no mater what direction the traders were going. There is no evidence the Hohokam had any use for gold, but it's well known that other societies, mainly towards the southern extent did. So some may have sourced gold from stream beds and outcroppings for trade purposes with those traders during the classic phase, when everything was at it's peak of development. I doubt their interests would have gone beyond that.

I don't see us as being very close to being on the same train. I'm not even sure we are on the same tracks at this point. I've never claimed to have found anything of monetary value out there, let alone the LDM or absolute proof thereof. I'd have to be willing to post good photos of the mine itself, outside and inside, and closeups of the gold in situ before I would consider making that claim.

Wayne, I was referring to what you said about the Jesuits and had come to a similar conclusion. I figgered if picked some brains here it what put me in the proper research area and save me time, I am not into pulling anybody's chain, just some good info and see how it didn't match up. But you are right we in many ways are not on the same page. Thanks for the help you did give but, I am going to move on. Good luck.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne, I was referring to what you said about the Jesuits and had come to a similar conclusion. I figgered if picked some brains here it what put me in the proper research area and save me time, I am not into pulling anybody's chain, just some good info and see how it didn't match up. But you are right we in many ways are not on the same page. Thanks for the help you did give but, I am going to move on. Good luck.

If you're learning anything new, I'd suggest you continue.
But it's your choice.

 

[Al D]

If you're learning anything new, I'd suggest you continue.
But it's your choice.

Wayne, it was inevitable, did not expect any other outcome did you?

 

[wrmickel1]

Yes, the Sabbath day. Also the numeric equivalent of Cursum Perficio.
Kino gave services for the natives at Casa Grande.
I've come across 7's in other places.
But none as big as this one.....

Theres no size reference to it, you should have done a selfie with it. But I do like, What’s the meaning of the 7 in Cursum Perficio.

wrmickel1

 

[somehiker]

Theres no size reference to it, you should have done a selfie with it. But I do like, What’s the meaning of the 7 in Cursum Perficio.

wrmickel1

I'd need a selfie stick a hundred yards long to get both me and that 7 in one shot Mick.
But I'm not saying it's a mine, am I. It's about 40 feet high though....so pretty big...and if the lighter colored portion was chopped out by someone to make the seven, it would have taken quite a while. You have to scramble up a very loose pile of white rock chips to get to the bottom of it though. One step forward three steps back sort of thing.
One pattern I've noticed regarding everything on the stones though, is that size matters as much as position. The bigger the object...horse--priest---symbol--letter--number etc., the more important it's counterpart in the field is.

Cursum Perficio translated to English is "the end of my journey" or "the perfect ending", depending on the context. In other words, a good time to rest.

 

[deducer]

I'd need a selfie stick a hundred yards long to get both me and that 7 in one shot Mick.
But I'm not saying it's a mine, am I. It's about 40 feet high though....so pretty big...and if the lighter colored portion was chopped out by someone to make the seven, it would have taken quite a while. You have to scramble up a very loose pile of white rock chips to get to the bottom of it though. One step forward three steps back sort of thing.

That would be too much effort for someone trying to perpetuate a hoax, wouldn't it?

Same with the "4" high up a cliff, and outsized. Not to mention that the deep carving is the same color as the surrounding rock- making it impossible that this would be a recent endeavor.

Wonder how Dave, or any of the other anti-stoners will explain this away.

You out there, Dave?

 

[somehiker]

As you know, and have seen yourself, the place is literally wall to wall with the symbols and whatnot we see on the stones. Even more than are on the stones themselves in fact. I still believe most of them are natural, including that "4" or "teepee" as I've called it in the past. As such, they didn't need to attach any particular meaning to most of them, and only copied to the stones what they could use for orientation. If they needed something more specific, they would modify the natural to add what was required, or create their own where it needed to be. The sheer scale of even that amount of effort however, boggles the mind. This is not like holes and hearts cut into Saguaros, or faked "treasure" signs pecked into the black varnish-like coating of so many boulders out there. No Storm or Mitchell, Tumlinson or cowboy could be blamed for this.

 

[somehiker]

Something I mean to do when I get down there next, is to take some printouts of my photos along. Particularly of the more overgrown areas. I'd like to compare the appearance and surface of rock(s) pre-Woodbury fire, with post fire rocks, to see if the fire has given formerly grainy and light colored stone that same blackened and glazed coating that has always been called desert varnish. With enough heat, I could see that happening.

 

[azdave35]

That would be too much effort for someone trying to perpetuate a hoax, wouldn't it?

Same with the "4" high up a cliff, and outsized. Not to mention that the deep carving is the same color as the surrounding rock- making it impossible that this would be a recent endeavor.

Wonder how Dave, or any of the other anti-stoners will explain this away.

You out there, Dave?

right here deducer....there are thousands of 7's and 4's and every letter in the alphabet in the hills and if you squint just right or have the sun shining just right maybe you can see them..just like the 4 on buzzards roost...most of the pics you guys put up on here that supposedly has a number or face or something in it..the rest of us see nothing...if you guys want to continue squinting..or waiting for the only day in the year when the sun is shining just right to see these figments of your imagination ..i'm cool with that..its your time you are wasting but dont try to convince us....the stone maps are a big fraud and have lured hundreds if not thousands of people to divorce..financial ruin ..destroyed their reputation and even cost them their lives...not a single man has ever located anything following them except their downfall...they should have ran those things through a jaw crusher as soon as they turned up..just look at the misery they caused in the last 4 years...do yourself a favor and toss all the pics of those maps and just enjoy the beauty of the mountains when you are out here..life will be alot better for you

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Dave, save the jaw crusher for real ore, just toss those "stones" in the alley out back. Or stack em up and use em to set a potted plant on. There's all kinds of useful stuff you could do with em. We could also throw Ely, Mitchell, Rose, Bark, and everyone else's stories about the LDM into the composter, their wood pulp will at least provide some value to something like a tomato or cucumber. All the stories, stones, etc. all come from the same source: BS'ers.

EDIT: Forgot to add the maps...throw all the maps in the composter too. Maybe folks could grow some of those loopy mushrooms and think up some new treasure stories about the Supes!

 

[azdave35]

Dave, save the jaw crusher for real ore, just toss those "stones" in the alley out back. Or stack em up and use em to set a potted plant on. There's all kinds of useful stuff you could do with em. We could also throw Ely, Mitchell, Rose, Bark, and everyone else's stories about the LDM into the composter, their wood pulp will at least provide some value to something like a tomato or cucumber. All the stories, stones, etc. all come from the same source: BS'ers.

exactly....they all seem to have one goal in life...before television and internet...the goal was to write a book...now they all want to be on tv

 

[somehiker]

Top of the morning to ya Dave:

Were you up and about before dawn, or do you wait until you can see the sun rising in the East before you roll out of bed ?
If that's the case, maybe that's why you're so grumpy this morning. LOL
While I'm sure that out of the many who have had some interest in the stones, or the LDM, there have been a certain number who have brought misery upon themselves, I seriously doubt that number would total more than a few 10's, not hundreds. Faith though, certainly plays it's part in what degree of persistence each person may apply to their quest for greater knowledge and answers, not just about the stones or Jake's mine, but many other chapters in the history of those mountains. I know that's one of the factors which finds me returning year after year. I've never been one to let attendant risks put great limits on my love of the outdoors, sports, or any other legal pursuit that I found challenging. Evidently, you live and see differently than I, which of course is your right, and I'm fine with that. But if you really believe there is only the beauty of the mountains to be found out there, why are you wasting so much time posting on a website for "treasure hunters", instead of one for nature lovers ?

 

[azdave35]

Top of the morning to ya Dave:

Were you up and about before dawn, or do you wait until you can see the sun rising in the East before you roll out of bed ?
If that's the case, maybe that's why you're so grumpy this morning. LOL
While I'm sure that out of the many who have had some interest in the stones, or the LDM, there have been a certain number who have brought misery upon themselves, I seriously doubt that number would total more than a few 10's, not hundreds. Faith though, certainly plays it's part in what degree of persistence each person may apply to their quest for greater knowledge and answers, not just about the stones or Jake's mine, but many other chapters in the history of those mountains. I know that's one of the factors which finds me returning year after year. I've never been one to let attendant risks put great limits on my love of the outdoors, sports, or any other legal pursuit that I found challenging. Evidently, you live and see differently than I, which of course is your right, and I'm fine with that. But if you really believe there is only the beauty of the mountains to be found out there, why are you wasting so much time posting on a website for "treasure hunters", instead of one for nature lovers ?

wayne..i could ask you the same...if you think the stone maps are the real deal...then why are you on a lost dutchman forum....maybe you should start a stone map forum..this is the lost dutchman forum..which has nothing to do with the stone maps...i'm not grumpy...just stating the facts..besides i was minding my own business when your pal deducer called me out

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Wayne, like Dave said, Deducer called Dave out...I took that as an invitation to put my two cents in, as Dave is not alone in his views here...normally I don't say anything and let y'all post your theories without commenting, as I don't have any reason or motivation to contradict what people believe with my own opinions...I figure if folks are having fun and enjoying their particular story or treasure hunt, that's great...

But keep in mind that a lot of us think all this stuff is complete hooey...these treasure tales about the Superstitions are great for around the campfire, or as a research pastime...but when we want to find gold, we go find it without the aid of some cowboy folk tale...if I want to go find mines, there are a ton of them all over AZ, real ones...when I want to go find Indian ruins or rock art, I know where to go...so just a different approach is all...if you want to use the stones, ancient meso-american drawings and maps, apohenia, pareidolia, etc...great...but to me there's a difference between researching lost mine tales, and actually finding treasure or ancient sites.

 

[somehiker]

wayne..i could ask you the same...if you think the stone maps are the real deal...then why are you on a lost dutchman forum....maybe you should start a stone map forum..this is the lost dutchman forum..which has nothing to do with the stone maps...i'm not grumpy...just stating the facts..besides i was minding my own business when your pal deducer called me out

I don't dictate what deducer may or may not have to say, although we do collaborate on some things of interest to us both.
So, you would be better off in directing your comment on that to him, rather than to me.
A stone map forum would have been a good idea back in the earlier days of this website, but with so many believing they had to be related to the LDM, it didn't happen, and separating the two topics is probably impossible now. Would you for example, restrict all of your comments about the stone maps to a such a thread ? Probably not, since too many others old and new, are not likely to do so.

 

[azdave35]

Wayne, like Dave said, Deducer called Dave out...I took that as an invitation to put my two cents in, as Dave is not alone in his views here...normally I don't say anything and let y'all post your theories without commenting, as I don't have any reason or motivation to contradict what people believe with my own opinions...I figure if folks are having fun and enjoying their particular story or treasure hunt, that's great...

But keep in mind that a lot of us think all this stuff is complete hooey...these treasure tales about the Superstitions are great for around the campfire, or as a research pastime...but when we want to find gold, we go find it without the aid of some cowboy folk tale...if I want to go find mines, there are a ton of them all over AZ, real ones...when I want to go find Indian ruins or rock art, I know where to go...so just a different approach is all...if you want to use the stones, ancient meso-american drawings and maps, apohenia, pareidolia, etc...great...but to me there's a difference between researching lost mine tales, and actually finding treasure or ancient sites.

lol...i havent commented much on their thoughts lately but when they dragged the hohokams into the stone map saga i had to run and get my hip boots to wade through some of the bs .. i'm sure the hohokams are rolling in their graves right now after finding out their name has been smeared by the evil stone maps...lol ...if wayne and deducer would show up at the rendezvous this year they might learn the real truth from those who know it..almost forgot...mick too

 

[azdave35]

I don't dictate what deducer may or may not have to say, although we do collaborate on some things of interest to us both.
So, you would be better off in directing your comment on that to him, rather than to me.
A stone map forum would have been a good idea back in the earlier days of this website, but with so many believing they had to be related to the LDM, it didn't happen, and separating the two topics is probably impossible now. Would you for example, restrict all of your comments about the stone maps to a such a thread ? Probably not, since too many others old and new, are not likely to do so.

wayne..first and foremost ..this is a ldm forum...any genuine dutch hunter has no use for the stone maps....and you are way off on your numbers of the people ruined by the stone maps..i live here..i should know...

 

[PotBelly Jim]

lol...i havent commented much on their thoughts lately but when they dragged the hohokams into the stone map saga i had to run and get my hip boots to wade through some of the bs .. i'm sure the hohokams are rolling in their graves right now after finding out their name has been smeared by the evil stone maps...lol ...if wayne and deducer would show up at the rendezvous this year they might learn the real truth from those who know it..almost forgot...mick too

Not sure everyone's going to believe the truth, it's like all those people who can find holes in the moon landing story...so those moon rocks must not be from the moon! Everyone has a different opinion, to each his own, I guess.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne, like Dave said, Deducer called Dave out...I took that as an invitation to put my two cents in, as Dave is not alone in his views here...normally I don't say anything and let y'all post your theories without commenting, as I don't have any reason or motivation to contradict what people believe with my own opinions...I figure if folks are having fun and enjoying their particular story or treasure hunt, that's great...

But keep in mind that a lot of us think all this stuff is complete hooey...these treasure tales about the Superstitions are great for around the campfire, or as a research pastime...but when we want to find gold, we go find it without the aid of some cowboy folk tale...if I want to go find mines, there are a ton of them all over AZ, real ones...when I want to go find Indian ruins or rock art, I know where to go...so just a different approach is all...if you want to use the stones, ancient meso-american drawings and maps, apohenia, pareidolia, etc...great...but to me there's a difference between researching lost mine tales, and actually finding treasure or ancient sites.

Actually, my reply was directed to Dave, not yourself.
What you say is always foremost in my own thoughts, to the degree where it's almost prescient.
Which is why I have advised Jeff and a couple of others before he came along, to forget any idea of proving the stones as genuine maps to any treasure, let alone the LDM. That they are too controversial for for many to be able to ever see them as anything but a hoax, and their history too muddied a mix for any researcher, no matter how good, to deliver a proof acceptable to hardcore doubters. In that regard, even the LDM legend comes very close to being unprovable, with the reactions to what has been said about the "pit" mine being a prime example of what I am saying here. Better off to let those legends fade into an eventual obscurity, and if by chance someone were to find a cache of considerable value, for them to leave it up to the self appointed pundits to figure out how, and maybe even where they did.
TV...books...?
Deducer can probably fill you in on my lack of personal interest in pursuing anything to that end....if he chooses to.