New site?...with different clue versions?

[PotBelly Jim]

Jim,

Sorry to hear about your dog. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery.

Yes- I was out and about riding a motorcycle that I built from scratch- putting it through trials. So far, so good.

View attachment 1726004

Thanks, he's fine...we are a bit sick of each other's company and it won't be long before we start snarling and gnashing our teeth at each other...nice bike, is that a shaft drive Virago?

 

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[deducer]

Thanks, he's fine...we are a bit sick of each other's company and it won't be long before we start snarling and gnashing our teeth at each other...nice bike, is that a shaft drive Virago?

Yup.. 1982 Virago 920 with all new wiring and electronics, including the M-unit blue. I can control it with my iphone, and it will notify me via iphone of anything that needs attention or maintenance.

 

[somehiker]

Jim,

Sorry to hear about your dog. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery.

Yes- I was out and about riding a motorcycle that I built from scratch- putting it through trials. So far, so good.

View attachment 1726004

Love it.
Turned out well.....I'm impressed. If I ever get out your way, I'll have to take her out for a ride.
Do you still have the other bike as well ?

 

[azdave35]

Sorry I'm late to this latest dust up.. yes there are many things that require squinting at, but not the photo Wayne posted- it's clearly a "7" isn't it? And it's too large, and in a location that's not only remote but difficult to access- hardly the work of someone perpetuating a hoax, don't you agree? Also up and to the right of that is the "4" on a side of a cliff, that points to another and more significant location.

The Stone Maps have caused me absolutely no misery- in fact, they've been a source of great pleasure to me, as far as being a very intricate puzzle that has required much thinking and research on my part. I also love being out there, enjoying the solitude, and the remoteness of these mystical mountains.

I have not wasted a single cent on them except for transportation and lodging.

The Stone Maps themselves, aren't evil, but they do have a strange way of bringing out what is inherent in people.

sorry deducer but its just another rock formation to me....i've seen many like it....some of it is gods handiwork and some are by pranksters who like to screw with people..a few posts back i posted a map that tom and friends made and hid in a cave and like tom said...i can only hope nobody goes searching for gold with this phony map..whoever made the stone maps was probably thinking different thoughts...lol

 

[Carl995]

Dave, save the jaw crusher for real ore, just toss those "stones" in the alley out back. Or stack em up and use em to set a potted plant on. There's all kinds of useful stuff you could do with em. We could also throw Ely, Mitchell, Rose, Bark, and everyone else's stories about the LDM into the composter, their wood pulp will at least provide some value to something like a tomato or cucumber. All the stories, stones, etc. all come from the same source: BS'ers.


I'm sure there will be a documentary in the future of one of the greatest hoaxes of the supers....

 

[wrmickel1]

Dave, save the jaw crusher for real ore, just toss those "stones" in the alley out back. Or stack em up and use em to set a potted plant on. There's all kinds of useful stuff you could do with em. We could also throw Ely, Mitchell, Rose, Bark, and everyone else's stories about the LDM into the composter, their wood pulp will at least provide some value to something like a tomato or cucumber. All the stories, stones, etc. all come from the same source: BS'ers.


I'm sure there will be a documentary in the future of one of the greatest hoaxes of the supers....

View attachment 1726064

Carrol

Did’nt your bud RG do that already

wrmickel1

 

[deducer]

Love it.
Turned out well.....I'm impressed. If I ever get out your way, I'll have to take her out for a ride.
Do you still have the other bike as well ?

More than welcomed to.

Yes, and also a BMW airhead that I'm rebuilding now.

 

[deducer]

sorry deducer but its just another rock formation to me....i've seen many like it....some of it is gods handiwork and some are by pranksters who like to screw with people..a few posts back i posted a map that tom and friends made and hid in a cave and like tom said...i can only hope nobody goes searching for gold with this phony map..whoever made the stone maps was probably thinking different thoughts...lol

And yet, it's not natural. Much of the surface of that particular rock, and it is no small rock, has been scraped away, not only to alter color but to bring out the "7" in relief. No easy feat.

I've seen plenty of fake signs in these mountains. Don't you think that by now I'd have learned how to tell the difference? Usually lightly scratched and bright (i.e., fresh). Taking no more than an hour or so to make.

On the other hand, this thick cross with a slash in the upper right quadrant, has been deeply carved, and has become the same color as the rest of the rock. It's smooth to the touch- do you know how hard that is to achieve on rock?



And finally, we actually agree on something. I agree with you that the creators of the Stone Maps were thinking different thoughts, holier thoughts so to speak. They did not see themselves as trafficking in treasure or wealth, but in earthy representations of providence, or assets meant to facilitate spreading of the gospel.

 

[azdave35]

And yet, it's not natural. Much of the surface of that particular rock, and it is no small rock, has been scraped away, not only to alter color but to bring out the "7" in relief. No easy feat.

I've seen plenty of fake signs in these mountains. Don't you think that by now I'd have learned how to tell the difference? Usually lightly scratched and bright (i.e., fresh). Taking no more than an hour or so to make.

On the other hand, this thick cross with a slash in the upper right quadrant, has been deeply carved, and has become the same color as the rest of the rock. It's smooth to the touch- do you know how hard that is to achieve on rock?

View attachment 1726100

And finally, we actually agree on something. I agree with you that the creators of the Stone Maps were thinking different thoughts, holier thoughts so to speak. They did not see themselves as trafficking in treasure or wealth, but in earthy representations of providence, or assets meant to facilitate spreading of the gospel.

first off...alot of these fake carvings have been there for 100 plus years..you would never be able to tell if they are fake by looking at them...you need to think about this...nutjobs carve fake symbols and do fake maps to keep other hunters out of their area...this has been going on since people first heard of the ldm...and is still going on today...you have probably spent most of your time in the supers...where as alot of us here have been all over arizona and explored many different mountain ranges,,,and its no different there...you see the same type of scribbling on walls in every range...surely the stone maps aren't connected to those mountains too?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I have discovered near Santa Fe NM, absolute evidence that the Phoenicians were exploring the desert SW. The local Indians saw them, and carved this to memorialize their passing through:



That's intended as good-natured joshing around, just to be clear.

Seriously, though...if the ancient people of the SW really carved large monolithic faces, numbers, etc. into the local landscape, why is there no archeological (or any branch of science) interest in such carvings? We have geoglyphs and petroglyphs...recognized by science...why would they ignore these large rock carvings?

While it is probably a pretty good likelihood that not many people have set eyes on what you're seeing in/around the Supes, I'm confident (seen 'em) that many such structures exist all over the SW...rocks that "look like" ancient carvings, some on a very large scale...yet there's no interest from science. May I suggest that's because some of theses structures have been studied by various scientists (geologists, archaeologists, etc) and determined to be merely natural formations? That no evidence of such structures being carved by ancient peoples has ever been found?

While I'm no expert, I've been to very many sites with ancient rock art. Without exception, here's what they look like:

 

[azdave35]

I have discovered near Santa Fe NM, absolute evidence that the Phoenicians were exploring the desert SW. The local Indians saw them, and carved this to memorialize their passing through:

View attachment 1726300

That's intended as good-natured joshing around, just to be clear.

Seriously, though...if the ancient people of the SW really carved large monolithic faces, numbers, etc. into the local landscape, why is there no archeological (or any branch of science) interest in such carvings? We have geoglyphs and petroglyphs...recognized by science...why would they ignore these large rock carvings?

While it is probably a pretty good likelihood that not many people have set eyes on what you're seeing in/around the Supes, I'm confident (seen 'em) that many such structures exist all over the SW...rocks that "look like" ancient carvings, some on a very large scale...yet there's no interest from science. May I suggest that's because some of theses structures have been studied by various scientists (geologists, archaeologists, etc) and determined to be merely natural formations? That no evidence of such structures being carved by ancient peoples has ever been found?

While I'm no expert, I've been to very many sites with ancient rock art. Without exception, here's what they look like:

View attachment 1726304

you may not be an expert but i believe you hit the nail on the head

 

[arcana-exploration]

I know I ask Wayne about his take on the Hohokams, in general, his overall take on their time in the Supers, certainly, they had nothing to do with the Stones. That would make no sense. Jeff.


mittelstaedt

 

[Oroblanco]

I still think a separate forum or sub-forum for the Peralta stones (and yes use that name even though not perhaps accurate) would be a boon and lead to far less argument/confrontation when feathers get ruffled.

Amen to what Dave said about Dutch hunters and the LDM not using the stone maps. There is good reason - most Dutch hunters are trying to get as close to the sources on the lost mine and Waltz as possible, while the Peralta stones wasn't really known to the public prior to the Life magazine article circa 1964? I might have that date wrong and correction welcomed. The "link" between the stone maps and the LDM is tenuous at best IMHO.

 

[azdave35]

I still think a separate forum or sub-forum for the Peralta stones (and yes use that name even though not perhaps accurate) would be a boon and lead to far less argument/confrontation when feathers get ruffled.

Amen to what Dave said about Dutch hunters and the LDM not using the stone maps. There is good reason - most Dutch hunters are trying to get as close to the sources on the lost mine and Waltz as possible, while the Peralta stones wasn't really known to the public prior to the Life magazine article circa 1964? I might have that date wrong and correction welcomed. The "link" between the stone maps and the LDM is tenuous at best IMHO.

lol..i think you are right roy..the plague started about 1964

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Good way to explain it, Roy...i.e. why so many Dutch Hunters get all exasperated with the "Stones"...personally I don't know what to think of them, but my gut and experiences around there tell me they're about as fake as so much other garbage that has been peddled around about those mountains after Adolph Ruth brought the crazed masses in...perhaps I'm wrong, and my wish is that some day someone finds a big ol' treasure with them...not holding my breath, but one can hope...personally I have no interest in spending any of my time on them, but do find the various theories interesting as one never knows...

I kind of boxed myself in on my last post...like I won't believe anything unless it's scientifically accepted...really I'm just skeptical of such claims, not an outright "denier"...I've found things that don't fit accepted historical or scientific views. For example, I found this where archeologists and historians say it shouldn't be:



I won't say where, as I don't want to bring in all the potsherd hunters...but anyone that knows anything about this type of pottery would say it shouldn't be where I found it. It has been returned to the earth where it was found.

And, for gratuitous eye candy purposes and no other, here's some cool Bully Bueno ore from this past April...we found your stash, Joe!!

 

[Al D]

Hello Jim
I found a similar one as well, where it should not be

 

[somehiker]

Good way to explain it, Roy...i.e. why so many Dutch Hunters get all exasperated with the "Stones"...personally I don't know what to think of them, but my gut and experiences around there tell me they're about as fake as so much other garbage that has been peddled around about those mountains after Adolph Ruth brought the crazed masses in...perhaps I'm wrong, and my wish is that some day someone finds a big ol' treasure with them...not holding my breath, but one can hope...personally I have no interest in spending any of my time on them, but do find the various theories interesting as one never knows...

I kind of boxed myself in on my last post...like I won't believe anything unless it's scientifically accepted...really I'm just skeptical of such claims, not an outright "denier"...I've found things that don't fit accepted historical or scientific views. For example, I found this where archeologists and historians say it shouldn't be:

View attachment 1726380

I won't say where, as I don't want to bring in all the potsherd hunters...but anyone that knows anything about this type of pottery would say it shouldn't be where I found it. It has been returned to the earth where it was found.

And, for gratuitous eye candy purposes and no other, here's some cool Bully Bueno ore from this past April...we found your stash, Joe!!

View attachment 1726381

Why shouldn't it be Jim ?

 

[somehiker]

Hello Jim
I found a similar one as well, where it should not beView attachment 1726393

Same question for you Alan.

I'm assuming that both of you know something about why sherds of those types, and others as well, can be found in many places where even the archaeologists themselves did not expect to find them. Ceramic Petrographic Analysis is often used to find out why.

 

[wrmickel1]

Good way to explain it, Roy...i.e. why so many Dutch Hunters get all exasperated with the "Stones"...personally I don't know what to think of them, but my gut and experiences around there tell me they're about as fake as so much other garbage that has been peddled around about those mountains after Adolph Ruth brought the crazed masses in...perhaps I'm wrong, and my wish is that some day someone finds a big ol' treasure with them...not holding my breath, but one can hope...personally I have no interest in spending any of my time on them, but do find the various theories interesting as one never knows...

I kind of boxed myself in on my last post...like I won't believe anything unless it's scientifically accepted...really I'm just skeptical of such claims, not an outright "denier"...I've found things that don't fit accepted historical or scientific views. For example, I found this where archeologists and historians say it shouldn't be:

View attachment 1726380

I won't say where, as I don't want to bring in all the potsherd hunters...but anyone that knows anything about this type of pottery would say it shouldn't be where I found it. It has been returned to the earth where it was found.

And, for gratuitous eye candy purposes and no other, here's some cool Bully Bueno ore from this past April...we found your stash, Joe!!

View attachment 1726381

Forget the Shard Potbelly I’d like to know where you found that Rock.


Is there any gold in it.

wrmickel1

 

[azdave35]

Forget the Shard Potbelly I’d like to know where you found that Rock.


Is there any gold in it.

wrmickel1

i bet you'd like to know...its top secret