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[deducer]

Congress Approves Secret Giveaway Of Sacred Apache Land To Foreign Mining Company

An important lesson to all of us that nothing is sacred to big money.

Whoever finds the LDM or any other big bonanza will have to prepare for similar actions.

 

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[Cubfan64]

An important lesson to all of us that nothing is sacred to big money.

Whoever finds the LDM or any other big bonanza will have to prepare for similar actions.

A lesson the Native Americans learned over and over again as the Government gave and then later when it suited them they just took it away again. History just keeps repeating itself.

 

[johnmark29020]

More of the people (apache) have served in the military than any other minority.
Then they get repayed like this.
We should make as much noise as we can to help stop the swap.

 

[gollum]

The reason I know this for a fact is because I have found three Spanish/Mexican Mines. One still sealed and the other two were unsealed and reworked. I knew the persons that had unsealed them. In every case there were no tailings found anywhere near the mines.



When you have mines that you can work year round, there is no need to hide tailings because you and your workers are on site all the time. No chance for thievery (except highgrading). Mines that were in the far North of the New World that could not be worked year round needed a way to make sure for the months they were absent, nobody else could easily find their mines. Small entrances, scatter/hide/carry off the tailings. Simple logic.

AZ,

The trails are still there. Aerial InfraRed Pics are the best for finding old trails. Even if the trails are unused recently, they can be found. There are very old (but well worn) trails up Bluff Springs Mt. The trails are worn into the rock, and small pieces of hand cobbled quartz with gold specimen have been found on top, same thing on Horse Mesa.

Mike

 

[Aric]

Thats a big assumption. I don't disagree with you but what proof do you have? The SWA was enlarged several times and finally defined in 1984. If you really believe this, it is logical to assume that you can trace back those who defined the area and learn their reasons for doing so. That would be meat-on-the-bone and who knows where it will take you.

Mike posted a good article a few pages back about the government doing a fly over the center of the Superstition Mountains in 1969 using a mercury vapor analyzer and results were outstanding if you were the government. Not so good if you are a private citizen. They (Gov.) decided it would best for the government to close off the wilderness to prospectors. That way they could protect the findings of 1969. Mercury vapors are very hard to hide. Nature never lies.

 

[Hal Croves]

Mike posted a good article a few pages back about the government doing a fly over the center of the Superstition Mountains in 1969 using a mercury vapor analyzer and results were outstanding if you were the government. Not so good if you are a private citizen. They (Gov.) decided it would best for the government to close off the wilderness to prospectors. That way they could protect the findings of 1969. Mercury vapors are very hard to hide. Nature never lies.

The park was to some degree protected in 69, but it was expanded and voted a wilderness area in 84. It should not have taken 15 years to respond to significant test results. Even for the Feds.

Look at who was involved in the parks expansion. That's the start. Who drew that line? They didn't just draw lines randomly. It's one specific question. Who specifically determined the current boundaries?

See where that takes you.

 

[gollum]

In 1969:



Mike

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Wow. You look good for your age.
V

It is the eye patch. Hides the crows feet on that side and takes off years of aging

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Wow - aren't you the one who constantly asks for verifiable facts from everyone? So could you explain exactly what verifiable facts you have and can provide that without question backs up that story you're calling a fact?

You do know that over the years there have more than a small handful of people who've claimed they are the REAL relatives of the Jacob Waltz of DLM fame? Maybe one of them is, but they can't all be and none of them can prove it except by word of mouth passed down through the family - not exactly what I would consider to be verifiable fact.

Just dig him up and grab some DNA

 

[Azquester]

The reason I know this for a fact is because I have found three Spanish/Mexican Mines. One still sealed and the other two were unsealed and reworked. I knew the persons that had unsealed them. In every case there were no tailings found anywhere near the mines.

View attachment 1125301 View attachment 1125302

When you have mines that you can work year round, there is no need to hide tailings because you and your workers are on site all the time. No chance for thievery (except highgrading). Mines that were in the far North of the New World that could not be worked year round needed a way to make sure for the months they were absent, nobody else could easily find their mines. Small entrances, scatter/hide/carry off the tailings. Simple logic.

AZ,

The trails are still there. Aerial InfraRed Pics are the best for finding old trails. Even if the trails are unused recently, they can be found. There are very old (but well worn) trails up Bluff Springs Mt. The trails are worn into the rock, and small pieces of hand cobbled quartz with gold specimen have been found on top, same thing on Horse Mesa.

Mike

Hi Mike, Long time,

I see those Mines all the time the ones I've found down here are carved like a church door all the way down the tunnel! They piled rubble into the door way and it just looked natural.

Big question is are they Mexican or Spanish?

There is a difference I believe.

In one of the photo's you posted I can see what could possibly be Monuments nearby but the photo needs to be panned out a little. With the common practice of lost leader mines to cover up the real mines somewhere nearby you may never know if it was the great producer of high grade ore that those guys thrived on or not just one of those low grade specials we all find. If you believe in the power of Chuck which some of us do and some don't the mine entrance for the richer mines was always a Rabbit hole entrance so the Indians couldn't rise up against their slave masters. If it is a low grade mine the Arrastra's should be some where close by buried I would assume in time. Also the infra red pix should locate the Arrastra's. With De Re being around it would be hard to separate the trails from the mass trenching along many veins. I found a mine down here covered up same scenario opened it up found some low grade cobbled ore but the Arrastra's were right there because arrastra's could get a better return on the low grade ore. Found one down here with a small three foot arrastra looked like a campfire pit.

How good was the ore?

Did it look like Dutchman Ore?





Bill

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

The only real facts that are known to me are these clues. The setting sun shines on my mine, (I would have to say the mine would have to face the west).
From my mine I can see the military trail, but you can't see my mine from the military trail.
To the south I can see a pointed rock, (this has to be Weavers Needle).

And your irrefutable source is?

 

[gollum]

Bill,

Spanish/Mexican makes no difference except maybe in timeline. The Mexicans got their mining know-how from the Spanish.

No monuments can be seen in either of the pics. From this site, everything that points to mines are gunsights. So far, every mine in this canyon was unsealed, reopened, and worked out in the early 1900s. Since this is still a working site, I can't show everything, but the beginning of the trail to this canyon starts with an eye:



MIke

 

[chlsbrns]

The reason I know this for a fact is because I have found three Spanish/Mexican Mines. One still sealed and the other two were unsealed and reworked. I knew the persons that had unsealed them. In every case there were no tailings found anywhere near the mines.

View attachment 1125301 View attachment 1125302

When you have mines that you can work year round, there is no need to hide tailings because you and your workers are on site all the time. No chance for thievery (except highgrading). Mines that were in the far North of the New World that could not be worked year round needed a way to make sure for the months they were absent, nobody else could easily find their mines. Small entrances, scatter/hide/carry off the tailings. Simple logic.

AZ,

The trails are still there. Aerial InfraRed Pics are the best for finding old trails. Even if the trails are unused recently, they can be found. There are very old (but well worn) trails up Bluff Springs Mt. The trails are worn into the rock, and small pieces of hand cobbled quartz with gold specimen have been found on top, same thing on Horse Mesa.

Mike

Bill,

Spanish/Mexican makes no difference except maybe in timeline. The Mexicans got their mining know-how from the Spanish.

No monuments can be seen in either of the pics. From this site, everything that points to mines are gunsights. So far, every mine in this canyon was unsealed, reopened, and worked out in the early 1900s. Since this is still a working site, I can't show everything, but the beginning of the trail to this canyon starts with an eye:

View attachment 1125353

MIke

Ok so first you claim that spanish mines have no tailings, because they hauled them away, you show pics, then you claim that all the mines were reopened early 1900's? Whomever reopened the mines also used a magic carpet to dispose of tailings?

Dont you think that the act of hauling away would leave a clear trail to the mines? Or did they use magic carpets? Magic eracer? Teleportation?

Your pic of the eye..? Was it the eye or the pile of rubble that tiped you off that a mine was nearby?

Do your infrared aerials show the trails?

 

[gollum]

Ok so first you claim that spanish mines have no tailings, because they hauled them away, you show pics, then you claim that all the mines were reopened early 1900's? Whomever reopened the mines also used a magic carpet to dispose of tailings?

Dont you think that the act of hauling away would leave a clear trail to the mines? Or did they use magic carpets? Magic eracer? Teleportation?

Do your infrared aerials show the trails?

Trails going through an area aren't as obvious as a waterfall of lighter colored detritus flowing down the side of a mountain:



The Americans that reopened the mines left a lot of tailings. Not a lot of the original mines is left. These mountains were worked pretty hard during the depression years up until about the 1950s. We have been through the tailings and the oldest stuff we found were cans and pieces of bottles dating to the early 1900s. Another item we used to date the reworked mines is the frame of a Model A that was bolted to the side of a cliff. It was either used to crush ore or haul things up and down the canyon. The engine is long gone



Aerial infra red photography shows trails that are invisible to the naked eye. When a trail is well used, the soil and rock is compacted more than the surrounding soil and rock. It retains heat longer than uncompacted soil and rock. The trails around this set of old mines are well worn in many places. Not a struggle to find.

When it comes to scattering/hiding/carrying off tailings, you don't have to take my word for it. Do your own research like I did. Don't expect everybody to hand you everything you want (oh, and being a smartass to me will only get you DD & more D).

Mike

 

[Azquester]

Bill,

Spanish/Mexican makes no difference except maybe in timeline. The Mexicans got their mining know-how from the Spanish.

No monuments can be seen in either of the pics. From this site, everything that points to mines are gunsights. So far, every mine in this canyon was unsealed, reopened, and worked out in the early 1900s. Since this is still a working site, I can't show everything, but the beginning of the trail to this canyon starts with an eye

That's right Mike a Crocodile Eye the symbol of the East very nice! Now your showing some good stuff. I'm showing you the Western symbol and your showing me the Eastern symbol! If a man from the east asks a man from the west what? Did you know the Croc eye means this mine is hidden with an Alpha and Omega? And it also means that the Witch has hidden the true mine? Find the Witches campsite and the severed head and you'll find the Alpha.

The Eye of Crocodile was also used in the magic rituals invoking the spells cast for the spirits to rise up and protect the Mine. I would never ever go there at night by myself if I were you!

Good Stuff!

 

[chlsbrns]

Trails going through an area aren't as obvious as a waterfall of lighter colored detritus flowing down the side of a mountain:

View attachment 1125378

The Americans that reopened the mines left a lot of tailings. Not a lot of the original mines is left. These mountains were worked pretty hard during the depression years up until about the 1950s. We have been through the tailings and the oldest stuff we found were cans and pieces of bottles dating to the early 1900s. Another item we used to date the reworked mines is the frame of a Model A that was bolted to the side of a cliff. It was either used to crush ore or haul things up and down the canyon. The engine is long gone

View attachment 1125379

Aerial infra red photography shows trails that are invisible to the naked eye. When a trail is well used, the soil and rock is compacted more than the surrounding soil and rock. It retains heat longer than uncompacted soil and rock. The trails around this set of old mines are well worn in many places. Not a struggle to find.

When it comes to scattering/hiding/carrying off tailings, you don't have to take my word for it. Do your own research like I did. Don't expect everybody to hand you everything you want (oh, and being a smartass to me will only get you DD & more D).

Mike

I don't know what dd or more d is?

I know how to research. Had you read the article that I posted you would have read about some of them hauling it all back to mexico. The tailings were hauled back to be crushed to extract the goodies. Tailings are crushed ore. Basically the powder that is left after the goodies are extracted. I've already corrected your improper use of mining terminology. Must I continually correct you?

 

[Azquester]

I am not seeing the things that you are describing. Not saying it's not there just can't see it.
So, if I understand you, his Majesties Witches are Jesuit Freemasons and they hid the mines with ritual ceremony.
Then they made the maps?

View attachment 1125386
Angry Wolf



View attachment 1125388

The Witch



View attachment 1125389

El Tio the Madman


View attachment 1125420

I'm not very good at using the mouse for this but in a nutshell you have a Wolf, Mans Head, various other symbols that are magic I have no clue, and a rabbit hole symbol for opening.




View attachment 1125421
Here's another wolf with a skeleton crawling towards it.

 

[Oregon Viking]

I don't know what dd or more d is?

I know how to research. Had you read the article that I posted you would have read about some of them hauling it all back to mexico. The tailings were hauled back to be crushed to extract the goodies. Tailings are crushed ore. Basically the powder that is left after the goodies are extracted. I've already corrected your improper use of mining terminology. Must I continually correct you?

I know you consistently irritate me! Gollum as well as others have great ideas. proven facts, a lot of these guys have been there. Respect is earned. You on the other hand are a burr under the saddle! In other gold prospecting threads...you spew misinformation, challenge those in the know, they go to the right , you spin left...

 

[wrmickel1]

One thing about the treasure symbol system, It was not wildly understood or used by just anyone before the 1900's. If they date to 1847 or earlier, then only a few people in the area would have had the understanding to make them. So, if they predate 1900, then chances are that the artist was someone or caved under the direction of someone very important. A Jesuit, a Peralta. Point being that the suspects are extremely limited.

After 1900, the door opens and it could be anyone with a creative flair, imagination, and a little lesson in history. DeGrazia? Perhaps, Tumlinson? Could be. Halseth? Only if it's an aerial overlay. The list is endless because the system was available in print.



The only real way to wrap things up is to have the stones professionally and independently dated. That was once done by a professional archeology group, again by Polzer with disappointing results (for some). It needs to be done again.

I am not so sure about his Majesties Witch. Seems like he would have been a target for the church, just by the name alone. Was this actually a title? It is a fascinating idea but where is the proof?

Well Hal

Its not a aerial overlay Hal, and its a Jesuit system, but the Peralta's may have been Jesuits who knows find that out and let us all know.

Wrmickel1

 

[i am the horse]

Another example of the government over reaching. Some person or person's had better find this mine before some foreign mining company does. I think this is why they put the wilderness on the protected list, they know what's in there.

I posted a long time ago i would sell the location of the mine for 250 mil. Didnt get one message from anyone from the state of az to protect the thing. So i said f$&k it. I can care less about the mine. Look and look. Just get lost like i did.