new show on the dutchman

[johnmark29020]

When you accept another's word for something as a fact that you cannot verify for yourself, no matter who that source is, then you have accepted his allegation on faith. This means you are either lazy, ill-prepared, gullible or don't care. Most folks don't care.

If you do care, remember - you can fool yourself too.

I couldnt agree more sdcflia
That's why I love love boots on the ground. This entire mystery is a case
Of here say with everyone holding somthing back. If the original players had simply trusted each other. I dont think we would be talking today. The dirty dutchman put forth the idea that julia and dick were supposed to work together.
I believe he was right.

 

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[Cubfan64]

I couldnt agree more sdcflia
That's why I love love boots on the ground. This entire mystery is a case
Of here say with everyone holding somthing back. If the original players had simply trusted each other. I dont think we would be talking today. The dirty dutchman put forth the idea that julia and dick were supposed to work together.
I believe he was right.

That's why greed is one of the 7 deadly sins

 

[Aric]

Aric, this ones for you buddy. To prove the Witch flies as a Janus with an Eagle in one arm and a Goose in the other have you ever heard of a pictoglyph? It's a carving giving three dimensions with some petroglyph pecking, lichen painting, only viewed at night with a lantern these rocks were intended to be viewed then.

Only the trained eye can see this. The only tip I can give you is try gel films in cutting torch goggles as we are viewing during the daytime with too much light. These Walkers must have been night trackers of various degrees of skills in the arts of Witch craft. Actually they were Warloc's.

During the day above ground they were beautiful wonderful white Priest's robes flowing in the wind giving out the host and wine. At night the Priest / Witch flew with the Eagle and paid tribute to Satan before going underground where Tio resides. In this Pictoglyph he has a Janus head and the Witch is wearing a long robe his foot hanging down as he soars with his eagle holding the key in his mouth the key to vast riches beyond your wildest dreams. I am the beginning and the End, The true Alpha and Omega, I am JANUS I go 18 places of the Solar Year. I have the great cackler in my left arm and the eagle in my right a half heart on my rode and a square. He keeps a compass tucked under his Goose for the great Cackler will surely kill you if you disturb him.

His other face has the eye of RA looking up at the sun and smiles for he know's where the Omega is. Behind this Stone is a huge stone face I'll post that too.




View attachment 1125414View attachment 1125415View attachment 1125417


View attachment 1125419

Best,

Bill

Bob,
Excellent photo's, is it possible these photo's were taken in the eastern part of the Superstition Mountains. You don't need tell us if you don't want to.

Great Post,

Aric

 

[markmar]

Bill,

Spanish/Mexican makes no difference except maybe in timeline. The Mexicans got their mining know-how from the Spanish.

No monuments can be seen in either of the pics. From this site, everything that points to mines are gunsights. So far, every mine in this canyon was unsealed, reopened, and worked out in the early 1900s. Since this is still a working site, I can't show everything, but the beginning of the trail to this canyon starts with an eye:

View attachment 1125353

MIke

And sometimes the "eye" is to the end of the trail . Like in the Heart .

 

[Aric]

Still see the bickering going on Randy nothings changed only now it's not me!

It made me laugh so fricken hard I almost busted a gut!

Mike has his hands full.

Same Old Lost Dutchman out house.

Find the Out House and you'll find the mine. Those tailings are always brown.

You flush them down the Arrastra.

They contain a lot of fine dewdy dust and a few kernel's with nuggets!
You'll never find the tailings unless you become one and smell your surroundings! Now that's a Rabid Hole!

Bob,
I can't stress this enough when I say where I'm from, the stone house IS THE KEY to locating the mine. I have heard and been told several times by the old timers that the mine was inside the stone house. I would have to say Waltz used the tailings to build the stone house. Waltz didn't put a roof on the house. The stone house doe's not stand anymore.
I think all Waltz was trying to do was to hide the vertical shaft.
I was also told the from the bottom of the mine to the surface was 10 feet. Waltz was 6 feet tall, he could have stood at the bottom of the mine and built a ledge starting at 4 feet from the bottom for the logs he installed and enlarged the entrance all at the same time.
So, the way it looks to me is this way, 4 feet from the bottom of the mine you have checker board pattern of logs, then 2 feet from the surface you have caliche & rock.


Aric

 

[Azquester]

Bob,
Excellent photo's, is it possible these photo's were taken in the eastern part of the Superstition Mountains. You don't need tell us if you don't want to.

Great Post,

Aric

No Aric all my photo's unless I tell you are from the Catalina Mountain Range. I'm not holding back anything but the last clue at this site. Your looking at a final Warloc Campsite with solar created images nearby. This is the Alpha site for the range. Found it by using Infinity the thing no one else on here can seem to grasp which is not their fault. I didn't expect anyone to get it I didn't for a long time but Boots to the ground and research got me there.

 

[sdcfia]

That's why greed is one of the 7 deadly sins

And that's why information in the public domain pertaining to lost mines and hidden treasure will never be totally accurate.

 

[Azquester]

Hal I enjoy yours to.

I wish these were my Idea's but they're not. My initial information came from a foundation in Florida that researched shipwrecks and discovered a few pages of a book like Kenworthy did at the Archives of the Indies in Seville, Spain.

So actually it's a known historical fact I'm not making this up as I go.

I wish I had the book it would have been a hell of a lot easier then boots on the ground for years and years wearing out dozens of them in the process!

I don't expect most to see it only someone that knows what to look for and how parts of it work can. The guy that has the info from the Archives is developing a computer program to find the stacked images and shadows in photo's just now.

In a nutshell he only told me of a few things and boots to the ground while taking more photo's than I can keep track of finally spilled some info. It helped, I found the site I'm at now which was a few years after he told me about the four symbols the rest I've done on my own as there is no information available and I don't have the resources to travel into Seville Spain so I can look in the Archives of the Indies.

The System is Infinity and believe me it is hard to read. Ted Degrazia might tell you to close one eye and look at images and terrain in two dimensions so you can see it. Even with that it took years for me to train my eye into seeing the abstracts right in front of my nose. Shadows are the hardest things in the world to comprehend but using them as a black paint was their gift.

They used angles and sunlight, shadows and rock, Lichen and Plants, most of all they used entire mountains as their paper. So when your looking at what I post your seeing something that's many stacked images in one place on top each other. Very Hard to see sorry if you can't it took me years before I could and I'm not an expert just a layman that has the basics.

 

[Azquester]

Bob,
I can't stress this enough when I say where I'm from, the stone house IS THE KEY to locating the mine. I have heard and been told several times by the old timers that the mine was inside the stone house. I would have to say Waltz used the tailings to build the stone house. Waltz didn't put a roof on the house. The stone house doe's not stand anymore.
I think all Waltz was trying to do was to hide the vertical shaft.
I was also told the from the bottom of the mine to the surface was 10 feet. Waltz was 6 feet tall, he could have stood at the bottom of the mine and built a ledge starting at 4 feet from the bottom for the logs he installed and enlarged the entrance all at the same time.
So, the way it looks to me is this way, 4 feet from the bottom of the mine you have checker board pattern of logs, then 2 feet from the surface you have caliche & rock.


Aric

Aric, Your right I believe the same. But Stone houses always had Stone Corrals with them near the mines. I know this because of all the Spanish mines down here which are numerous. They would put a weigh house at the bottom of the mining district for the Kings' Fifth. This was just a foundation with the doorway off the ground like a window and they used a canvas tent top for the roof so it was portable and could be dismantled. They could take it down very easy when they were done.

Next Time I go into the Superstitions I'm only using what I know about Infinity no Dutchman Clues that way if it's a true hidden Spanish mine I should be able to find it regardless. They're not that hard to locate, the area's of Gold Mining that is, so it should be simple task to find it by air or ground.

 

[gollum]

You are 100% correct. My master's is in Spanish Borderlands and I teach it in college. You realize that you are the only one on this site that understands that the Jesuits did no mining, that the missions were poor and struggled throughout their existence and that legend has totally replaced fact in most people's minds. Great job partner...

Austin,

Before I jump into anything you may have posted, please go through the following thread:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/treasure-legends/153540-jesuit-treasures-they-real.html

It is a long thread, but it contains a wealth of referenced information. See, for you to say that there is no history of Jesuit Mining, you are dead wrong. If you say there is no history of Jesuit Wealth, you are dead wrong as well. If you have a Master's as you say, then you should have read the journals of the Jesuit Missionary Fathers. Those journals that detail a great amount of wealth that was not there when the Spanish Soldiers started rounding them up during the night of 25-26 June 1767.

Mike

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal I enjoy yours to.

I wish these were my Idea's but they're not. My initial information came from a foundation in Florida that researched shipwrecks and discovered a few pages of a book like Kenworthy did at the Archives of the Indies in Seville, Spain.

So actually it's a known historical fact I'm not making this up as I go.

I wish I had the book it would have been a hell of a lot easier then boots on the ground for years and years wearing out dozens of them in the process!

I don't expect most to see it only someone that knows what to look for and how parts of it work can. The guy that has the info from the Archives is developing a computer program to find the stacked images and shadows in photo's just now.

In a nutshell he only told me of a few things and boots to the ground while taking more photo's than I can keep track of finally spilled some info. It helped, I found the site I'm at now which was a few years after he told me about the four symbols the rest I've done on my own as there is no information available and I don't have the resources to travel into Seville Spain so I can look in the Archives of the Indies.

The System is Infinity and believe me it is hard to read. Ted Degrazia might tell you to close one eye and look at images and terrain in two dimensions so you can see it. Even with that it took years for me to train my eye into seeing the abstracts right in front of my nose. Shadows are the hardest things in the world to comprehend but using them as a black paint was their gift.

They used angles and sunlight, shadows and rock, Lichen and Plants, most of all they used entire mountains as their paper. So when your looking at what I post your seeing something that's many stacked images in one place on top each other. Very Hard to see sorry if you can't it took me years before I could and I'm not an expert just a layman that has the basics.

Think about the effort that it world take to create a carved mountaintop top. The man power involved. Then think about the cost to support such an operation. Food, supplies, security, we are talking a small army of people. Not very low profile. A map on parchment would have been a much more logical way to record mines and the paths to and from them.

Will you provide the title of the book that you mentioned?

I don't disagree on the process that you are writing about only the scale which you describe. It is simply not realistic.

 

[gollum]

Here is one example of the proliferation of "Clerigos" mining in New Spain:

February 6th 1705

[From Pandectas Hispano Mexicanas No 586]

Prohibiting clerigos and Religiosos from acquiring interest in Mines in New Spain

The King Whereas by cedula of the 14th of March 1703 I commanded the Duke of Albuquerque my present Viceroy of the Provinces of New Spain to report me on the excesses committed by the Administrators the Mines of Guanajuata and on their having taken Mine of Rayas from Don Lorenzo Cauo and having it to Doctor Don Juan Diaz de Bracamonte Presbyter compliance with which he gave an account of what had been done and stated that in that kingdom they not enforced the prohibition of the law which that clerigos cannot hold Mines since in many Reales there are clerigos who are Miners either because of their having acquired them by patrimony or because necessity caused the matter to be overlooked, And having seen, in my Royal Council of the Indies, all the papers on the subject and heard on it my Fiscal and having in Law IV Title XII Book I of the Recopilacion de Indias which prohibits Religiosos y Clerigos from working Mines and considering this to be as grave an offense as it declared to be in the law, I have resolved to order and command as by these presents I do order and command my Viceroys of New Spain and Peru and I require charge the Archbishops and bishops of the two kingdoms to observe what is contained in Law IV Title XII Book I above cited and to cause it to be observed in the form precisely as it is expressed. the said Viceroys and ecclesiastic prelates of both kingdoms and provinces together each in his own place for the better and remedy of these violations and that in compliance the said law neither the one nor the other permit in provinces and dioceses such relaxation but that they watch with due punctuality and vigilance over the precise punctual observance of the provision of the said law without permitting consenting to or allowing it at any time to be contravened in its contents on account of the injury which results therefrom to my Royal Treasury to the better administration and preservation of the Mines And of the receipt of this despatch and of the form which each one shall fulfill it in their provinces dioceses and jurisdictions they will give me a very particular account on the first opportunities which may offer for the reason that it pleases me to he fully informed of its effectual observance

Given at Madrid February 6th 1705

I The King

By command of the King our Lord

Don Juan de Aperrequi

That is just one quote from "A Collection of Mining Laws of Spain and Mexico" HW Halleck 1859

Even someone without a Masters Degree in Spanish Borderlands from UTEP can read that the problem of Religiosos mining in the New World was pretty extensive. Enough so for the King of Spain to issue a special edict regarding the problem.

Father John O'Malley SJ who is the preeminent Jesuit Historian alive in the US said this to me about why Jesuits may not be telling the truth about their mining activities:

Dear Mike....

I can't think of any reason they would deny it later...unless it was part and parcel of a larger picture, viz., to deny any "commercial" activity, as defense against enemies who used that against them. jwo

Also,

I have said for several years now, that I don't believe the Missionary Fathers themselves were responsible for most of the mining activities. The day to day mining work was done by Temporal Coadjutors. They are professional types that were Jesuit in every way except they didn't have the book knowledge or drive to spend the 21 plus years it took to go from Novitiate to taking their Final Vows.

Mike

 

[Azquester]

Bob Collins

I enjoy your posts. I only wish that you had the visual proof to support your ideas.

I'm not that good at freehand with Gimp but here's the images enhanced just abstracts or Glyphs pretty simple really they had sort of childish mind sets.


View attachment 1125670

 

[winchester3030]

New to the site and the forum, and read the entire string. Question......when and why did this string morph from a discussion of the history channel tv series into a what it has become.... Now it is a series of abstract speculation on the meaning of the stones, possible location of the ldm, and a host of other ideas, and downright insults.. That off my chest, looking forward to further episodes concerning the LEGEND, and want to wish Wayne, Frank, Woody, and the rest of the team the best of luck. Be safe out there. Your exploits are entertaining, and has the possibility of finding much more in the way of gold than I find hobby prospecting on my meager 40 acres in Gold Basin, north west Arizona. Good luck, and safe and happy hunting to all.

 

[Hal Croves]

I'm not that good at freehand with Gimp but here's the images enhanced just abstracts or Glyphs pretty simple really they had sort of childish mind sets.


View attachment 1125670

The outlines do help define what you think that you are seeing. The scale, the effort, the lack of proof, as in photographs of tools marks. It would be impossible to create this without leaving behind tool marks or signs of carved material. Do you have that proof? Seems close enough of a location to confirm your ideas which are possible. I don't think that they are probable.

From the distance you are viewing this shadow, I thought that an arrow shaped stone mound marker would be used? They were using optics then. Correct? If so, why go to so much trouble and expense to sculpt the earth? Their world was connected. Information and reports were sent home regularly on sailing ships. It returned the same way. Consistently. They had maps and could most defiantly find their way back to any location without these elaborate earth works.

Simplicity! A large stack of lighter stone placed high up on a mountain face to indicate direction. Something difficult to build yes, but requiring only minimal help. 2 or three men and a cartographer is all it would take. We are lazy beings.

I think that your theory would be helped along if you could show proof that people worked the area with tools.

 

[deducer]

New to the site and the forum, and read the entire string. Question......when and why did this string morph from a discussion of the history channel tv series into a what it has become.... Now it is a series of abstract speculation on the meaning of the stones, possible location of the ldm, and a host of other ideas, and downright insults..

Happens in nearly every thread.

99% of the insults originate with "Google-earthers" (to borrow Randy's term) or otherwise amateur historians who don't do enough research and pontificate at length, not thinking that many others have done the same, so many times, and have been outed by those far more knowledgeable.

 

[chlsbrns]

Here is one example of the proliferation of "Clerigos" mining in New Spain:



That is just one quote from "A Collection of Mining Laws of Spain and Mexico" HW Halleck 1859

Even someone without a Masters Degree in Spanish Borderlands from UTEP can read that the problem of Religiosos mining in the New World was pretty extensive. Enough so for the King of Spain to issue a special edict regarding the problem.

Father John O'Malley SJ who is the preeminent Jesuit Historian alive in the US said this to me about why Jesuits may not be telling the truth about their mining activities:



Also,

I have said for several years now, that I don't believe the Missionary Fathers themselves were responsible for most of the mining activities. The day to day mining work was done by Temporal Coadjutors. They are professional types that were Jesuit in every way except they didn't have the book knowledge or drive to spend the 21 plus years it took to go from Novitiate to taking their Final Vows.

Mike

What does new spain have to do with mining in arizona? Do you know where new spain is?

After your quote you commented on the "New World". New world and new spain are two different places.

 

[gollum]

What does new spain have to do with mining in arizona? Do you know where new spain is?

After your quote you commented on the "New World". New world and new spain are two different places.

Actually, it does, I do, and no they aren't, but in case your education is lacking:

New Spain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

New Spain Map:



Since New Spain comprised several places in the South Pacific, I used the term New World to show a more specific area I was speaking about.

...and the mention of The Duke of Albuquerque:

Francisco Fernández de la Cueva, 10th Duke of Alburquerque - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.................or do you think that Albuquerque and Guanajuato are somewhere other than in the New World or New Spain, Nueva Vizcaya, Mexico, etc?

Now troll. Maybe you can show me where I am mistaken? You might want to try reading a bit before challenging someone.

Mike

 

[chlsbrns]

Maybe I should explain in detail? I posted from a history book about arizona. The article said that the jesuits did not mine in arizona. You posted history from new spain that says nothing about jesuits mining in arizona.

Do I need to continue?

 

[gollum]

Maybe I should explain in detail? I posted from a history book about arizona. The article said that the jesuits did not mine in arizona. You posted history from new spain that says nothing about jesuits mining in arizona.

Do I need to continue?

I think your previous post showed everybody just how much detail you actually know. Maybe you should address your lack of knowledge in saying that New Spain was not the New World? or did I miss something?

Yes, you posted a quote from an old history book, and I posted a quote from The King of Spain regarding how Religioso and Clerigo mining ventures were depleting the Royal Treasuries, and that it was his order (by virtue of this Special Edict) to reinforce how serious this subject was to him. ......... or maybe I need to translate the words "religioso and clerigo" for you? See, history books are rewritten from time to time based on new knowledge. That's why education is an ongoing thing. At least that's what REAL scholars say.

Maybe after you explain that, you can address a big boy topic.

Mike