MYSTERY ROCK

[Sodabob]

Howdy

I haven't been around for a while and had to re-register with a different name. Anyway, I'm working on a real mystery and could use some help. If I can remember how to post pictures, please notice the carved images in what locals call "The Mystery Rock." I have been asked by our local Historical Society / Museum to research it, and depending on the results here, might write an article for them in their newsletter. The rock has already been examined by a group of Archaeologist but they are baffled as to what the carvings might be or represent. The only thing they determined with any certainty is that the carvings were done with some type of steel tool such as a chisel. As for the date it was carved, they are baffled about that as well. Its located in a brushy area about 100 feet away from an old State highway and about 100 yards from an old Railroad line that was built in 1916. In the area there is also an old U.S. military encampment that was built in 1940-41 and sold to the County around 1947-48. The two most prominent theories are ...

1. The rock was carved by a Railroad worker
2. The rock was carved by a member of the Military

But regardless of who carved it or when, we are trying to determine what the carvings might be or represent? The archaeologist said they don't recognize the pattern and are pretty sure they are not Aztec or anything like that, and that they might be random that only the "carver" knows the meaning of.

If you have any theories or recognize the pattern as something specific, please let me know and I will pass the information on to the Historical Society. The rock is located about 50 miles east of San Diego along old Highway 94.

Thanks in advance to those who participate in possibly solving a mystery that has had locals baffled for several years.

Sodabob ... a.k.a. Sodabottlebob and Sodapopbob


The rock is about 6 feet long, 3 feet wide, and about 2 feet thick. Most of the carving are on one end of the rock but in some places continue over the side. The local museum has permits to move it next Spring but will need a backhoe to lift and transport it.

 

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[Sodabob]

All theories are being considered. And if you think the Nazca theory is strange, check out this one. I find it interesting; especially when you take into account that the type of primate pictured is a Mandrill Baboon. As in 'man drilled'

 

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[Sodabob]

Or ...

Possibly some type of pneumatic Router. If such a thing exist? I include this possibility because of the intricate straight lines and even depth of the carvings. Please remember, unless whoever carved the rock had access to a gas generator, the nearest power source is at least 1/4 mile away. So, when did gas or diesel generators first come into existence?

When I posted the above quote yesterday I was trying to find a plausible explanation to account for the almost perfect symmetry in the design. As it turns out, the first pneumatic handheld router was invented around 1915 by Oscar Onsrud and his son in Chicago. I'm attaching a couple of pics of an Onsrud router, but the main thing about this is the fact that handheld pneumatic routers have been around for a long time and might have been the type of power tool used to carve the design in the Mystery Rock. Notice in the following Wikipedia reference where it ties in a Railroad with Oscar Onsrud's invention ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Router_(woodworking)

The first handheld power routers were invented in 1915 and were Jet Motor Hand Routers, called Onsruters. The name derives from a combination of the inventor's last name "Onsrud" and the term "router". The Onsruter combined a router plane with an endmill to create the first handheld power router. The idea for the Onsruter started when a railroad company decided they wanted to power the front light on a Steam Locomotive using exhaust steam from the engine.

[ I don't know the date for this particular pneumatic router - I only know that it has an Onsrud label ]

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

I also contacted (via email) "The California Lichen Society" to see if they tested lichen or if they could instruct me on how to test and/or date it myself. I was surprised there even was such an organization, and will let you know what they have to say if/when I hear back from them.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

....nazca?....really?...ok, then, I'm out.....

Really, why are you leaving... you've contributed so much helpful insight into this thread... not!

 

[Sodabob]

I'm not sure how these pics will turn out until I post them, but I'm attempting to illustrate the symmetry I spoke about earlier and how every groove is the same depth and in most cases the same width. Also notice that the 'shoulders' of the grooves are rounded and not sharp edged. Its primarily because of these attributes that I believe the carving was done with some type of power tool and not a chisel and sledge hammer. Not to mention the various test I did with a hammer and cold chisel that were at best a laughing matter. In the chisel and hammer experiments I did, I could not control or stop chunks from breaking away as I proceeded, leaving ragged edges. Its because of the possible age of the carving and the fact there isn't an electric power source within 1/4 mile that I am still leaning toward some type of pneumatic router that the early Railroad and Highway builders would likely have had access to. Both of which that are a stones throw from the rock.

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

I keep forgetting if you click on one of the images and then click on it again after it opens that you can really zoom in on it and see in detail the features I just mentioned.

 

[Goldstar1]

This is a very cool and interesting rock , Thanks for posting this and all the updates on the thread. I have no idea what this would mean , who made it or why. I do think that whoever made this had a purpose and has done this type of work before. I have cut all different type of stones for many many years and if this is a hard granite this would be very difficult to do even with modern power tools. The problem with cutting hard stone like granite is that steel tools would get really chewed up unless someone used some type of acid to soften the stone first

The only way you could really do it would be with diamond sintered tools and they are very expensive and have not been available for very long, even with those it would take a considerable amount of time and would require coolant. The only other thing i could think of would be lasers of some sort , again very expensive and have really only been experimented with since maybe the 1930s. I have a hard time believing that a railroad worker or hobo type would have the time do do something like that but you never know. Maybe some hungry pilgrim stumbled on a peyote patch ??

Anyway thanks for posting and please keep updating.

 

[Sodabob]

Gs

Thanks for participating. The weird thing about granite in southern California is that it exist in varying degrees of hardness from 'like steel' to 'crumbles in your hands.' The crumbly type we call DG for Decomposed Granite and is used for a variety of purposes including erosion control, driveways, etc. The Mystery Rock is pretty hard on the surface but decomposing underground. But overall I don't think the carved area is so hard that it couldn't have been done with some type of hand tool that required all of the steps you indicated. So with that said, as soon as it stops raining (6' inches in the past 24 hours) I plan to do try and determine just how hard the rock is without damaging it and also do some more experimenting with a hammer and cold chisel on similar granite rocks. I will report back as soon as possible.

 

[Sodabob]

I'm trying my best to understand the process/art of carving granite and have discovered that carbide steel chisels and bits are the preferred tools currently used and that they have been around for quite a while. As near as I can determine, carbide steel tools were first introduced in the United States in the 1920s. But even that seems late to me when you take into account the thousands of granite sculptures around the world that date to the early centuries. How did those artist manage to create masterpieces from solid granite? But regardless of that, the real question is, what type of tool(s) were used to carve the Mystery Rock? This is still a work in progress and I don't want to jump to conclusions, but the fact remains that "something" was obviously used to carve the rock and the best thing I can come up with at this juncture is that it might have been done with some type of carbide tool, including the possibility that the tool was some type of pneumatic router with a carbide tipped bit. I haven't decided just how far I intend to go with all of this carbide stuff, but suffice it to say that I consider the use of carbide tools to carve the Mystery Rock as a possibility worth considering.

This link is to a website that specializes in carbide tools for artist who do sculptures in stone, including granite, and is intended only as a sampling of one of the various ways that artist carve stone sculptures in today's world.

https://trowandholden.com/sculpture-and-carving.html

Notice in this 1949 reference the mention of carbide chisels, carbide bits, air equipment ...

 

[DCMatt]

Bob - Any idea what they used to cut the nearby tunnels when the railroad was built?

 

[Sodabob]

Bob - Any idea what they used to cut the nearby tunnels when the railroad was built?

Based on what I have been told ...

Dynamite and/or Black Powder

 

[DCMatt]

Based on what I have been told ...

Dynamite and/or Black Powder

I'm sure that was the beginning of the process, but they had to use some other means to shape and finish them. I don't know anything about cutting tunnels through mountains but I looked at a few pictures of them and I'd be very impressed if they got that kind of precision with explosives only.

 

[Sodabob]

The Impossible Railroad

On Memory's Back Trail: The Impossible Railroad


In the beginning, the San Diego & Arizona Railroad was planned to connect San Diego directly to Yuma. However, the plans were changed in order to connect the SD&A to the Southern Pacific at El Centro. Then the all-American route, having been proposed through Dulzura, was revised to pass through Tijuana and Tecate in Baja, California, as the route through Mexico was less costly. Groundbreaking ceremonies for the western portion of the railroad were held in San Diego on Sept. 7, 1907. Over the next 12 years, engineers, surveyors and crews of able-bodied men graded roadbeds and blasted and drilled through many tons of solid granite, building 148 miles of rail from San Diego on the Pacific Ocean, through Mexico at Tijuana to Tecate, to Campo, to the Tecate Divide at Highpass — 3,669 feet above sea level near Jacumba, through Carriso Gorge, and down into the desert, terminating in El Centro at 49 feet below sea level.

 

[Plug N Play]

If I wanted to know the "HOW was it done" ... I'd tour the cemeteries from S.Diego eastward.
The stones will be dated ... comparisons should be informative.

Then I'd take pieces of similar rock to the experts around San Diego and have them explain how they
would duplicate the grooves seen in your pictures.



I'd start with La Jolla Stone Etching because ... well, research !

 

[Sodabob]

I don't want to beat a dead horse with all of this carbide stuff, but I truly feel it is safe to say that carbide tools and drill bits have been around long enough to qualify as a possible explanation how the Mystery Rock might have been carved regardless if it was done in 1915, 1925, 1935, 1945, etc; etc. The attached newspaper article is just one example of what I have been seeing ...

The Reno Gazette - Reno, Nevada - November 26, 1938

(Be sure to triple + click to read)

 

[Sodabob]

PNP

Thanks for the suggestion. I may do that at some point. In the meantime, check out this solid granite statue that still stands near the wharf in San Diego. It took the artist, Donal Hord, two years to carve and was erected in 1939. The granite came from a quarry in Lakeside where my father grew up on a chicken ranch and who remembers when it was quarried. I wonder how Donal Hord achieved this masterpiece sculpted from solid granite? The statue is called "The Guardian of Water"

 

[DCMatt]

Donal Hord at work.





As you can see... he went both ways...

 

[Sodabob]

Donal Hord at work.

View attachment 1681144

View attachment 1681145

As you can see... he went both ways...

And here's the finished product from 1939




I especially like this from 1933




Who knows? Maybe Donal Hord carved the Mystery Rock on one of his sojourns into Mexico or during a train ride to east San Diego county.

 

[Sodabob]

Colima, Mexico?

Those of you who have been following this discussion will recall my having said several times that I feel the Y shaped symbol seems to be a central feature of the carving. More than anything else it seems to jump off the rock and capture one's attention. You will also recall my having researched everything from ancient alphabets to Zodiac signs to try and explain the Y shape. And even though I keep referring to it as possibly being the letter Y, there is something haunting about it that seems to keep staring back at me like a face. When I first saw it I automatically had visions of something Aztec or Mayan related. But until just recently I didn't realize there were so many subcultures related to the Aztecs and Mayans. Or so many different ruins scattered around Mexico that have Aztec and Mayan connections. It was while researching those cultures that I stumbled onto the Pre-Columbian city of Colima, that is near the Pacific coast and west of Mexico City. Here's a link that tells about Colima's history ...

https://www.history.com/topics/mexico/colima

During the course of my research I discovered that most of the Colima masks and various other artifacts depict characters with noticeably long noses and haunting features. Because I didn't want to jump to conclusions, I also studied other Aztec and Mayan artifacts to see if the 'long noses' were prevalent throughout Mexico or if they were more centralized to one particular sub-culture. As it turns out, it seems the Colima culture used the 'long'noses' more than any of the others. I realize this is a long shot, but at this juncture I have just about run out of possible explanations and feel the Colima connection is just as plausible or implausible as anything else I have come across.

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

I also discovered that ...

1. Donal Hord spent at least a year in Mexico studying art. At one point he met Mexican artist Diego Rivera.

2. Donal Hord spent time in the Laguna Mountains of San Diego County - whose southern portion is where the Mystery Rock is located.

?