MYSTERY ROCK

[Sodabob]

Howdy

I haven't been around for a while and had to re-register with a different name. Anyway, I'm working on a real mystery and could use some help. If I can remember how to post pictures, please notice the carved images in what locals call "The Mystery Rock." I have been asked by our local Historical Society / Museum to research it, and depending on the results here, might write an article for them in their newsletter. The rock has already been examined by a group of Archaeologist but they are baffled as to what the carvings might be or represent. The only thing they determined with any certainty is that the carvings were done with some type of steel tool such as a chisel. As for the date it was carved, they are baffled about that as well. Its located in a brushy area about 100 feet away from an old State highway and about 100 yards from an old Railroad line that was built in 1916. In the area there is also an old U.S. military encampment that was built in 1940-41 and sold to the County around 1947-48. The two most prominent theories are ...

1. The rock was carved by a Railroad worker
2. The rock was carved by a member of the Military

But regardless of who carved it or when, we are trying to determine what the carvings might be or represent? The archaeologist said they don't recognize the pattern and are pretty sure they are not Aztec or anything like that, and that they might be random that only the "carver" knows the meaning of.

If you have any theories or recognize the pattern as something specific, please let me know and I will pass the information on to the Historical Society. The rock is located about 50 miles east of San Diego along old Highway 94.

Thanks in advance to those who participate in possibly solving a mystery that has had locals baffled for several years.

Sodabob ... a.k.a. Sodabottlebob and Sodapopbob


The rock is about 6 feet long, 3 feet wide, and about 2 feet thick. Most of the carving are on one end of the rock but in some places continue over the side. The local museum has permits to move it next Spring but will need a backhoe to lift and transport it.

 

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[DCMatt]

The museum people and I are thinking the same thing and plan to dig under the rock when its moved. I have done a little metal detecting already but didn't find anything except some junk like twist-off bottle caps and stuff like that. However, my smartphone compass acted a little weird when I set it directly on the rock. But what might have caused that, I don't know. The compass didn't act up when I held it away from the rock.

Make sure the cameras are rolling when you move the rock and dig underneath! It will be just like when Geraldo opened Capone's secret vault!

 

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[HuntinDog]

Sodabob,
I think what sanmateo was getting at is using power tools to make the rock

 

[Sodabob]

Sodabob,
I think what sanmateo was getting at is using power tools to make the rock

The nearest electrical outlet is about 1/4 mile away. I have been down there numerous times studying the carved-out design and suspect that part of it might have been done with a steel file. The reason I say that is because there are almost no small chunks of granite missing along the lines, which occurred when I tried a hammer and chisel on a large granite rock near where I live. If the design on the Mystery Rock was done with a chisel, I have to believe it was a super-small chisel and done with great care and a lot of time.

 

[Sodabob]

Here'a a pic of the rock again so you won't have to back-scroll-click to see it ...

 

[Sodabob]

I just got back from our local museum's monthly board meeting (I'm not a member but they invited me to attend) and they passed a resolution to move the Mystery Rock as soon as possible. But they still need to work out the details as to exactly how to proceed - including the hiring of a heavy equipment operator, etc. But before any of that can be done they need to do a preliminary excavation of the rock to determine exactly how deep it is in the ground and what type of equipment will be necessary to move it. I will probably be involved in most of those projects but already know the rock is embedded at least two feet deep and possibly deeper if it angles to a point underneath it. The only digging I have done was with my bare hands because they don't want any shovel work done until the green light is given from the County who owns the property as part of a state highway easement. Other than that I don't have much more to report other than I and others are still trying to solve the mystery as to the who, how, and when the rock was inscribed. At the board meeting this afternoon it was pointed out that part of the inscription around the Y symbol kind of looks like a skull, but that too was inconclusive as has been the case with most everything else about it. I'm currently researching the history of the state highway that runs near the rock and hoping to find a possible connection with that. I've just started my research on that aspect and only know that the highway was dirt between 1904 and 1928 when it was first paved. There is evidence of drilling and blasting along the roadway but I'm not sure yet if that factors in. I will report back again when any progress is made on the moving project and/or if/when anything new is discovered. As it stands now its still a total mystery!

 

[cw0909]

interesting rock,
maybe a pacific crest trail, thru hiker with lots of time
do the wave lines look like the outline of the hills/mountains in the area

 

[Sodabob]

interesting rock,
maybe a pacific crest trail, thru hiker with lots of time
do the wave lines look like the outline of the hills/mountains in the area

There are hills and mountains in every direction surrounding the rock. But connecting the wavy lines to a specific hill would be next to impossible. The general consensus is that wavy lines represent water. There is a creek about 200 yards away, but its still inconclusive if anything on the rock definitely refers to the creek. Stay tuned and I will tell you what I found underneath the rock this afternoon.

 

[Sodabob]

If you read what I posted yesterday you will recall my saying that the County Museum did not want me to do any shovel digging until we got the green light from the powers that be. Well, what I didn't tell you is that they gave me permission to probe under the rock with a steel rod to determine if it was free-floating or possibly the cap of a much larger rock. They also gave me permission to do some bare hand digging. Which I did to a depth of about 2' feet. In trying to determine the very bottom of the rock, I dug underneath it on one side. In doing this I had to bend my elbow underneath the rock about a foot or so to scoop out the dirt. And lo and behold if my finger tips didn't come up against the object pictured below. Yep, its a Railroad spike! And, like I just said, it was a good foot directly under the rock. Now, I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I find it mighty interesting that the width of the spike is exactly the same with of some of the carved out areas. On my way home I stopped and showed the museum curator what I had found and he was as excited as I was and will likely display the spike at the museum as a possible tie-in with the rock. Of course we acknowledge the possibility that the spike could have been left by anyone at anytime, but what are the odds that an earlier digger would have left the spike underneath the rock? I don't know how long it takes for an iron spike to corrode underground, but the one I found had about 1/8" inch of flaky rust on it before I cleaned it up a bit. But what you see in the attached pic is the way I intend to leave it without doing any more cleaning. The 'bumps' are all that's left of the 1/8" inch of flaky rust that started falling off the moment I removed it from the ground.

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

I forgot to mention that any more digging around the rock will be done under strict guidelines such as marking it off in a grid and sifting every speck of dirt through a screen before eventually moving it. I will participate in all aspects of the project and hoping to find the hammer that went with the spike.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Thank you very much for the update on your 'Mystery Rock' Bob.
Firstly, an iron railroad spike is not hard enough to carve a granite rock... if it actually is granite.
If the rock is a softer stone, then the 'artist' could have used the spike as a carving tool.

My gut feeling is that this stone was originally standing vertically in the ground, this is why 1/3 of the base is void of carving.
This would also explain why you coincidentally found the iron spike "underneath the stone".

My contention remains, that this is a Native American carved piece.
It probably marked the location of a place of spiritual importance to the local tribes, potentially identifying a burial or burning site for the deceased spirits.

Dave

 

[unclemac]

Thank you very much for the update on your 'Mystery Rock' Bob.
Firstly, an iron railroad spike is not hard enough to carve a granite rock... if it actually is granite.
If the rock is a softer stone, then the 'artist' could have used the spike as a carving tool.

My gut feeling is that this stone was originally standing vertically in the ground, this is why 1/3 of the base is void of carving.
This would also explain why you coincidentally found the iron spike "underneath the stone".

My contention remains, that this is a Native American carved piece.
It probably marked the location of a place of spiritual importance to the local tribes, potentially identifying a burial or burning site for the deceased spirits.

Dave

no, just no....not a chance

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

i think it is a doodle. your carver was not all that skilled, he made lines and dots, no recognizable forms or words...it looks like random work to me. without meaning...practice as it were.

And you think that my theory is nonsense...

 

[unclemac]

yep, like i said...a doodle, killing time...

 

[Sodabob]

I went back to the vicinity of the Mystery Rock today and did some experimenting with various tools on some of the granite rocks in the area. And when I say "area" I do not mean at the exact location of the Mystery Rock, but about a half-mile away in a remote area because I didn't want any evidence of my experiment to be seen or found. But I did want to be sure that my experiment was done on granite rocks that were identical to those where the Mystery Rock is located. The long story short of it is that I am now pretty much convinced that the carving done on the Mystery Rock was not done with hand tools such as chisels, railroad spikes, etc. But rather that the carving was done with some type of power tool such as a pneumatic rock drill or possibly even an electric drill, but leaning more toward some type of pneumatic tool either powered by steam or air pressure. I arrived at this possibility because the experiments I did with various sized cold chisels were unsatisfactory in that the rock was either too hard and/or on some of the more decomposing rocks the result was a ragged mess with uneven lines and chips and chunks flying in all direction. But that's okay because I have already discovered that various types of pneumatic rock drills have been around since before the turn of the 20th century. Two of which I will attach. I'm also attaching a couple of pics of the surrounding area to illustrate just how rocky the hills and mountains of southern California are. Anyhoo, for those who want to continue helping me with this, I recommend focusing on early 20th century power tools that would have been used for Railroad and Highway construction. The thing is, whatever tool was used to carve the design in the Mystery Rock involved (in my opinion) some type of advanced tool and not hand tools, nor Native Americans using nothing more that a hand held rock. I also performed a hand held rock experiment and the result was laughable to say the least. Try it and you will see what I mean.

[ Typical landscape in southern California back country ]



[ 1900 Newspaper article - Pneumatic Rock Drill - Schumucker ]

Notice where it says "Thirty Five Pounds " / "light-weight"



[ 1898 Schmucker Pneumatic Drill Patent ]



[ 1902 Schmucker Pneumatic Drill Patent ]

 

[Sodabob]

Or ...

Possibly some type of pneumatic Router. If such a thing exist? I include this possibility because of the intricate straight lines and even depth of the carvings. Please remember, unless whoever carved the rock had access to a gas generator, the nearest power source is at least 1/4 mile away. So, when did gas or diesel generators first come into existence?

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

I almost forgot to mention that because of the Railroad spike I found underneath the rock yesterday that I and the museum curator are still leaning toward a Railroad connection. We're hoping when we do a preliminary excavation that more clues will come to the surface (pun intended)

 

[Sodabob]

P.S. ~ P.S.

(So much for my "long story short")

In case some of you are leaning toward battery operated tools, I researched them and it appears the earliest examples were introduced in the 1960s but not really perfected until the 1970s and 1980s. That's one of the reasons I'm also researching how long it typically takes for lichen (a form of dried moss) to develop on granite rock in this part of the state. Lichen typically covers most of the granite in this area, and the Mystery Rock is literally covered in it. Even though I don't know the answer yet, as it depends on a lot of variables like water, sun, etc; I do know that it can take years and years to develop and can be tested for age, which is what I am going to recommend the county museum to do at some point and time. I strongly feel that dating the lichen on the Mystery Rock will help us determine an approximate age of the carvings themselves. According to those who have already looked at the lichen on the rock (but not tested it yet) the general consensus is that it appears to be approximately 100 years old.

 

[Sodabob]

This is the best picture I have showing the lichen on the Mystery Rock. Notice the light greenish stuff in the shadow on the right. Its not so easy to see in the sunlit areas, but its all over the rock, including inside the carved out areas. (I posted this pic earlier with the fire poker pointing north)

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Nazca Lines

"The Nazca civilization flourished in southern Peru between 200 BCE and 500 CE and amongst their most famous legacies are the geoglyphs and lines - often referred to as Nazca Lines - drawn across deserts and hills along the eastern coast of Peru and northern Chile which were either stylized drawings of animals, plants and humans or simple lines which connected sacred sites or pointed to water sources. They were made over many centuries and although their exact purpose is disputed the most widely held theory is that they were designed to be walked along as part of religious rites and processions.

A Nazca geoglyph depicting a hummingbird. The designs and lines created on the desert floor of southern Peru are known collectively as the 'Nazca Lines' and were made over several centuries between 200 BCE and 500 CE. Their exact purpose is not known.

Lines could be single - both straight and curved - or in groups and could cross each other in complicated networks. The width and length of lines could vary, one of the longest straight lines is 20 km long and the total combined length of Nazca lines has been estimated at over 1,300 km. Those lines used to describe a specific shape are generally composed of a single continuous line. Designs could be geometric shapes such as triangles, spirals, trapezoids, arrows and zig-zags. Examples of animal designs are a hummingbird, condor, monkey, llama, duck, lizard, spider and even a killer whale. Trees, plants and flowers such as the cactus were another subject, human figures were also drawn (especially on hillsides), as were objects such as tripods, looms and fans. There are also many forms as yet unidentified. The scale of the designs can be huge, many are at least the size of a sports field.

The exact purpose of the lines is much debated amongst scholars and the general public. Proposals range from astronomical maps relevant to the agricultural calendar to indicators of sacred routes between Nazca religious sites, a common device in other ancient South American cultures. Those on hillsides may have been intended as direction finders for travellers - which is almost certainly what they did become, intentionally or not. The lines which create shapes never cross each other and usually have a different starting and ending point indicating that they may have been paths walked during religious ceremonies as part of a repeated ritual. One such line actually leads directly from a small hut. More fanciful suggestions have the lines as the work of visitors from another world, but these are usually dismissed for the complete lack of evidence and the ease with which the designs can be created.

Erich von Däniken’s theory is the most famous approach to solve the mystery of Nazca. He had the idea that long time ago visitors from other stars visited the earth and naturally Nazca. At this place they landed, during the landing stones was blown away by the power of rocket propulsion. By approaching more, the power was increasing and the cleaned band broader. In this way the first trapezes emerged. Later the Aliens disappeared and left confused people. Like in the modern cargo cults they tried to call the Gods back by drawing lines, figures and trapezes. Never Däniken said the formations was made by Aliens."

 

[unclemac]

....nazca?....really?...ok, then, I'm out.....