More Proof that J. Frank Dalton was Jesse Woodson James

[Texas Jay]

Hi Manhunter. I met with a relative of yours I believe a year ago when she came to Brownwood. She was descended from your Travis/Patterson line. I spent an hour or so discussing your family with her at our Public Library. We looked over her extensive genealogical records and I came to the same conclusion you did, that is, that Elbert Dewitt Travis could not have been Quantrill.
~Texas Jay

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

Just the same... Q's Guerillas were important to the "mystery", as MANY were KGC... NEVER really accepting "yanks" in OAK, later (as outlaws of the WILD West...).

 

[Rebel - KGC]

There was something about a "split"... HARD-CORE Rebels (as Outlaws/Desperados) resisted OAK, in quite a few places.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Totally agree Rebel - KGC. Today we have the capacity to research the facts much better than they could back in the early to mid 1900's. Alot of the old folk stories and embellishments were taken at their word if there was even a shred of possible connection, and then if the media snagged it up and sensationalized it then everyone thought there must be some truth to what was being told.

Including JESSE JAMES WAS ONE OF HIS NAMES; LOTS of "Codes" released after Dalton's death. Hmmm... Need MORE "High-Test" Coffee!

 

[Manhunter]

Hi Manhunter. I met with a relative of yours I believe a year ago when she came to Brownwood. She was descended from your Travis/Patterson line. I spent an hour or so discussing your family with her at our Public Library. We looked over her extensive genealogical records and I came to the same conclusion you did, that is, that Elbert Dewitt Travis could not have been Quantrill.
~Texas Jay

Very interesting. I know I have distant cousins from the San Angelo area that have lots of family information and photos. I am trying to get with her this summer sometime and swap notes. I have done the Travis line back to the early 1600's in the US and then beyond to England around 1100. Find lots of interesting things about the family when you do that much research. And all that was before on-line search tools were available, ....., spent lots of time at the library.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

There was something about a "split"... HARD-CORE Rebels (as Outlaws/Desperados) resisted OAK, in quite a few places.

It was probably so the men behind the curtain could remain unknown.

 

[lastleg]

Manhunter, did you know that JJ alias FD flew on an aeroplane from Oklahoma to New York City?

Jay knows all about that. Reb, got that coffee ready yet?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Manhunter, did you know that JJ alias FD flew on an aeroplane from Oklahoma to New York City?

Jay knows all about that. Reb, got that coffee ready yet?

Help yourself... got chicory in it, over a smoking camp-fire; COWBOY COFFEE!

 

[Manhunter]

Manhunter, did you know that JJ alias FD flew on an aeroplane from Oklahoma to New York City?

Jay knows all about that. Reb, got that coffee ready yet?

I have to admit that I do not know anything about his flight to NYC. For what purpose?

 

[lastleg]

Evidently to promote his claims which were quite sensational at the time. I did not save that particular
post.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Jay your evidence is about as solid as a bowl of pudding. Look at what information we found out about your postcard in just two days. You've had that thing for months and didn't come close to gathering the information that we did.

okietreasure hunter, I don't want to start an argument, but I know for a fact that texas jay has more information about that post card than he is talking about. You should look at it again yourself, there is more there than meets the public's eye. Think about how many people held that post card in their hands as it was mailed....how many could have easily read it just like we did? Why was he asking for his "WAIST" have you ever before this time heard of another person ask for such a strange thing? Look at someone and ask them for your waist, I will guarantee you they will have no idea what you are asking for......and if they do it would be trash....Who asks someone to send their trash..because they need it. It is an obvious dupe message.
I have read a similar message between J.S. Morton and Bill Cody discussing two collie dogs.....while Cody was in the Black Hills Looking for gold. Cody is also tied to the K.G.C. Knights in Nebraska city. They remained secret for a long time because they were crafty and sneaky like spies.

just my 2cents, L.C.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Simple fact is that I have found who it was mailed to and who she had been married to. Genealogical records show that they lived most of their lives in the area the postcard was mailed to. The Frank Dalton she was married to was never Jesse James. Claims of more information than what has already been revealed by Jay does nothing to support his theory.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Totally agree Rebel - KGC. Today we have the capacity to research the facts much better than they could back in the early to mid 1900's. Alot of the old folk stories and embellishments were taken at their word if there was even a shred of possible connection, and then if the media snagged it up and sensationalized it then everyone thought there must be some truth to what was being told.

That is exsactly the same thing that the War Department did to try and make the public believe that Finis Bates was a lunatic.

It is also why Orville Browning contacted Thurlow Weed just days after Lincoln's assassination to point the finger at John Yates Beall's friends as being responsible for Lincoln's murder. He used the press and it's biggest shaper of opinions Thurlow Weed to cover their guilty butts.

Great post, L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Just the same... Q's Guerillas were important to the "mystery", as MANY were KGC... NEVER really accepting "yanks" in OAK, later (as outlaws of the WILD West...).

You nailed this Rebel! NEVER really accepting "yanks" in OAK, later (as outlaws of the WILD West...
...But they loved to overpower them when they were in control of the government and they had the kind of money that would pull a young man inside their grasp even if they had assassinated his "FATHER".....who cares if your Mother starts running her lip about it, just have her committed in the loony bin. But she managed to get her own lawyers by smuggling letters out, gained her release and fled and never spoke to him again. I guess we really know why Mary T. Lincoln and Robert T. Lincoln fell out now, it makes sense why they never spoke. Look at that list close...The K.G.C./O.A.K. were railroad monopolist they owned anything and everything railroad even making the train cars. The Mortons and Robert T. Lincon. ....both would be about third generation age, ...the O.A.K.
William Vallandigham Kelley M$T1912 (2)
Sidney A. Kent M$T
R.C. Kerens M$T
Charles B. King M$T
Darwin Pearl Kingsley M$T1912 (3)
W.J. Kinsella M$T
Gardiner Martin Lane M$T1912 (6)
Livi Z. Leiter M$T
Frederick E. Lewis M$T
Percy P. Lewis M$T
John Crerar Library M$T
Robert Todd Lincoln M$T1912 (4)
H. G. Lloyd M$T1912 (2)
Timber Loan Co. M$T
William Logan M$T1903
William J. Louderback M$T1912 (3)
George D. Markham M$T
Edgar L. Marston M$T1912 (4)
John D. Marston M$T
J. B. Martindale M$T1912 (3)
Levy Mayer M$

You will also find interesting the similarity in the way that Joy Morton obtained Morton Salt...Joy starting working for E. I. Wheeler in 1880, buying into the company for $10,000, with which he bought a fleet of lake boats to move salt west the Morton Salt Company upon the death of his partner E. I. Wheeler.....

.Robert Todd Lincoln would have the same LUCK? with George Pullman upon his death.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

You may also look into the funds (K.G.C. first generation grub stakes?) that were spent on a certain canal and what that canal did for the O.A.K. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and also you might take the time to look at the Chicago Club and it's early membership and beginning. The Chicago Club's by-laws specifically forbid working members of the press from entering the building. The one exception to this rule seems to have been in 1982 when a Chicago Tribune editor was able to obtain limited access.
Chicago Club - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


P.S. I forgot to mention Joy Morton Lived in Chicago.....he was a chip off the ol' block.
Joy Morton, founder of The Morton Arboretum | The Morton Arboretum


L.C.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I have to admit that I do not know anything about his flight to NYC. For what purpose?

PROBABLY to "prepare" THE WAY; moving KGC/OAK HQ to Colorado Springs, CO; then the "split" began... O.A.K. won; follow the MEN with $$$$$$$$$$$$$, POWER, & "CONNECTIONS"...
WESTWARD HO!

 

[thelocator77]

I am gonna have to agreed with Okietreasurehunter on this one. I completely agree that a person's signature changes over the years. However, I have literally dozens of copies of hand written documents by J. Frank Dalton and nothing on this card looks like his writing to me. I am going to include some of pictures of his handwriting over the years including some signed as Jesse James. You may recognize some and some you may not. These are actual documents signatures made by him in front of, or for, other people. I will include the postcard again for comparison. The first two are of the postcard: This one is from March of 1937: This one is from 1942: These two are from after his coming out in 1948: And this one is suspected but not confirmed and date unknown: . A comparison of all of these show few similarities. Any handwriting experts can tell you that one or two matching letters do not mean a match. There has to be numerous similarities. I am not getting into the whole debate of what the card means, simply stating that the signature does not match that of known Dalton signatures.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I am gonna have to agreed with Okietreasurehunter on this one. I completely agree that a person's signature changes over the years. However, I have literally dozens of copies of hand written documents by J. Frank Dalton and nothing on this card looks like his writing to me. I am going to include some of pictures of his handwriting over the years including some signed as Jesse James. You may recognize some and some you may not. These are actual documents signatures made by him in front of, or for, other people. I will include the postcard again for comparison. The first two are of the postcard: View attachment 1025476View attachment 1025477 This one is from March of 1937: View attachment 1025478 This one is from 1942: View attachment 1025486These two are from after his coming out in 1948: View attachment 1025479View attachment 1025480 And this one is suspected but not confirmed and date unknown: View attachment 1025485. A comparison of all of these show few similarities. Any handwriting experts can tell you that one or two matching letters do not mean a match. There has to be numerous similarities. I am not getting into the whole debate of what the card means, simply stating that the signature does not match that of known Dalton signatures.

You may be correct, but a man who was nearing blindness and had a shaky hand could have had someone else write the card for him that you can read without any problem. What do you suspect the person that wrote this card was asking for? It is not agruing unless you raise your voice..LOL! We debate things here like gentlemen.


L.C.

 

[thelocator77]

You may be correct, but a man who was nearing blindness and had a shaky hand could have had someone else write the card for him that you can read without any problem. What do you suspect the person that wrote this card was asking for? It is not agruing unless you raise your voice..LOL! We debate things here like gentlemen. L.C.

This is assuming that this was written after 1948 when he came out claiming to be Jesse James? I have many handwriting samples from the early to mid-40's where he wrote with a steady hand. As for the meaning of the postcard? It could simply mean that he left his waist coat and will be needing it. We don't know the time of year the postcard was written. As for being signed Jesse James? One needs to understand that Jesse James is a very common name during this era. In fact, during the Civil War there were a half dozen Jesse James serving in Missouri alone. Are we to assume that every one of these were the real Jesse James? There comes a point when we realize that a person can share a name with an infamous outlaw without being that outlaw? And a letter from a Jesse James to a Dalton? Two extremely common last name? Well, sometimes a coincidence is nothing more than a coincidence.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

To make a reasonable decision about J.Frank Dalton being Jesse W. James more subject matter will have to come to light instead of more opinions. Perhaps someone will write a book on that subject alone and produce hard evidence if any dose exist.

Just my 2 cents, L.C.