Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[Interested Party in UK]

TT

That's what makes this life we are contemplating becoming involved in, so appealing and entertaining. If they find anything and I doubt they will, you will know what its about as you've been there and seen it.

These ancient tombs were pillaged, sometimes openly and at other times surreptitiously. I would hazard a guess that the menorah was broken and/or melted sometime after being plundered.

There were people coveting rich tombs just as they do now, in ancient times as well. El Crow mentions grave-robbing being an ancient 'profession' in an earlier post as well.

I was in correspondence with an eminent historian and academic regarding the mighty Genghis Khan's burial place. You know why his tomb has never been found?

I looked into this as the Gobi Desert was being searched for large gold deposits and I was researching a couple of things there.

IPUK

 

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[tintin_treasure]

TT

That's what makes this life we are contemplating becoming involved in, so appealing and entertaining. If they find anything and I doubt they will, you will know what its about as you've been there and seen it.

These ancient tombs were pillaged, sometimes openly and at other times surreptitiously. I would hazard a guess that the menorah was broken and/or melted sometime after being plundered.

There were people coveting rich tombs just as they do now, in ancient times as well. El Crow mentions grave-robbing being an ancient 'profession' in an earlier post as well.

I was in correspondence with an eminent historian and academic regarding the mighty Genghis Khan's burial place. You know why his tomb has never been found?

I looked into this as the Gobi Desert was being searched for large gold deposits and I was researching a couple of things there.

IPUK

thanks IPUK..you have a strong point.,,,the Alaric legend claims also that many wagons of gold was buried as well..but whether they find anything or not it will draw the much needed crowds for tourism for that obscure town just like the Polish town is enjoying..
I dont know why they couldnt find the Tomb of Ghenghis Khan..there has been a lot of interest on it as well wth legends of vast troves...

TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

You've hit the nail on the head mate. Publicity and an increase in revenue for the local economy....

With regards to the Khan's much vaunted tomb, most assume he was buried with jewels, gold and silver by the yak load. I am afraid that the closest written accounts when he was on his deathbed describe and tell a very different story. He was buried with pomp and ceremony alright, just not with precious metals and gems. To the Mongols HE was the treasure and that is why his tomb was a secret and was protected after his death. He ordered that he would be buried like a common man and in the mountains of his birth. Chances are his tomb was discovered in centuries gone by but was ironically probably thought of as a 'nobody's' tomb.

Sad but true.


IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

You've hit the nail on the head mate. Publicity and an increase in revenue for the local economy....

With regards to the Khan's much vaunted tomb, most assume he was buried with jewels, gold and silver by the yak load. I am afraid that the closest written accounts when he was on his deathbed describe and tell a very different story. He was buried with pomp and ceremony alright, just not with precious metals and gems. To the Mongols HE was the treasure and that is why his tomb was a secret and was protected after his death. He ordered that he would be buried like a common man and in the mountains of his birth. Chances are his tomb was discovered in centuries gone by but was ironically probably thought of as a 'nobody's' tomb.

Sad but true.


IPUK

thanks IPUK..it remains a mystery...ofcourse also we need to use our common sense that these kings who were allegedly buried with treasure i.e. Alaric,Attila,Ghenghis Khan etc commanded empires hence it can not be conceived that all there treasures were buried with them... as how then could their followers maintained and survived after that? Hence it would be safe and fair to assume some substantial treasure of some symbolic good value may have been buried(whether tomb raided later or not),,but the fancy legend of gigantic treasure had found its way to thier graves defies common sense ...even the second in command would have seen to it that he had the wealth at hand to continue the empire,campaign etc
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Exactly TT.

There was much intrigue, double-dealing and false trails.

Look why King Tut's tomb was described as the greatest discovery in archaeology in the 20th century - as soon as pharoahs were buried, the very priests trusted with performing the ceremonies, would arrange for tomb-robbers to defile the resting places.

The main place where valuables were actually left in tombs, was/is in South and Central America as the civilizations there placed precious metals and gems as artistic objects. But the Spanish soon changed that.

I actually was involved with a group trying to discover the last resting place of the last Sapa Inca - Atahualpa. That was an interesting experience.


IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

Exactly TT.

There was much intrigue, double-dealing and false trails.

Look why King Tut's tomb was described as the greatest discovery in archaeology in the 20th century - as soon as pharoahs were buried, the very priests trusted with performing the ceremonies, would arrange for tomb-robbers to defile the resting places.

The main place where valuables were actually left in tombs, was/is in South and Central America as the civilizations there placed precious metals and gems as artistic objects. But the Spanish soon changed that.

I actually was involved with a group trying to discover the last resting place of the last Sapa Inca - Atahualpa. That was an interesting experience.


IPUK

Yeah I recall your insights about Atahulapa legends ...some time back I was watching about some archaeological documentary on youtube that was being filmed as it progressed.It was about the burial chamber of the most powerful family in Renaissance Florence .The Medici Family. Accurate written records showed some gold was buried with one of the Family members and just as it was being excavated from the chamber all excited eyes including journalists were hoping to see dazzling gold next to the skeleton...But alas nothing to the disappointment of the researchers ..and the American archaeologist in command of the research suggested it may have been robbed in antiquity like Egypt,,those laborers who buried and sealed the tombs returned the very night to rob it and seal it again ..

TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

There has been cunning, greedy, sly, lying, deceitful and vicious people throughout history. Stands to reason that wealth would always attract those who would try and commander it for their own nefarious purposes.

The best chance to recover a buried cache is situations where it was secreted in times of war, uncertainty and great stress, hence the Roman, Viking and similar hoards uncovered. In other parts of the world old buildings, walls, wells and landmarks were used to bury or store accrued personal or family wealth when there was no access to banks or safe repositories. Those treasures are mostly uncovered by chance as well.

There is such a story from India where about 50kgs of pure gold fashioned into jewellery dating from the time of the Indus civilization was uncovered by simple villagers in a field in a mound of mud and melted down for its gold value...

IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

There has been cunning, greedy, sly, lying, deceitful and vicious people throughout history. Stands to reason that wealth would always attract those who would try and commander it for their own nefarious purposes.

The best chance to recover a buried cache is situations where it was secreted in times of war, uncertainty and great stress, hence the Roman, Viking and similar hoards uncovered. In other parts of the world old buildings, walls, wells and landmarks were used to bury or store accrued personal or family wealth when there was no access to banks or safe repositories. Those treasures are mostly uncovered by chance as well.

There is such a story from India where about 50kgs of pure gold fashioned into jewellery dating from the time of the Indus civilization was uncovered by simple villagers in a field in a mound of mud and melted down for its gold value...

IPUK

yeah,,studying the prevailing circumstances is important...I came across this e book ,,some pages are free to read and you can scroll to the few pages on Selvagens..the writer seems to have a variant story as well..check it
Madeira Folktales and Legends by Euthalia Editora

TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Somewhere amongst all the differing versions of the story and varying details, more than likely a treasure was buried.

That's why researching and delving and questioning aspects of the legend, is what counts and will define frustration and wasted efforts as oppose to success and reward.

IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

Somewhere amongst all the differing versions of the story and varying details, more than likely a treasure was buried.

That's why researching and delving and questioning aspects of the legend, is what counts and will define frustration and wasted efforts as oppose to success and reward.

IPUK

Yeah IPUK,,,there is no smoke without fire....by the way San José galleon news was on BBC...it said estimated value is 10 billion

TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Unfortunately for the American salvage company who located the wreck, they won't see any of the booty..
In their legal fight with the Colombian government, an American high court ruled that the ship belonged to the country of Colombia.

What caught my attention was the fact that it was said that about 1,000 substantial galleons and merchant wrecks litter the seabed during the reign of Spain in the Americas...

Pity I get seasick so easy..arrgh

IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

Unfortunately for the American salvage company who located the wreck, they won't see any of the booty..
In their legal fight with the Colombian government, an American high court ruled that the ship belonged to the country of Colombia.

What caught my attention was the fact that it was said that about 1,000 substantial galleons and merchant wrecks litter the seabed during the reign of Spain in the Americas...

Pity I get seasick so easy..arrgh

IPUK

I have the feeling individual politicians and powerful elites will take the booty by corruption rather than being a national treasure...
TT

 

[Crow]

Sadly UNESCO and various institutions have banded together with international agreements on the historic preservation of shipwrecks. Many countries have sign up to that agreement so has Panama. Shipwreck hunting is be priced into extinction through the courts.

that's why the trio are very careful in what we involve ourselves in. These factors should be considered.

location, security, operational costs, legal maneuverability, Government support. Land ownership and access rights. All of these are needed in the equation. and remember the bigger the treasure the bigger the head ache.

crow

 

[Crow]

I have the feeling individual politicians and powerful elites will take the booty by corruption rather than being a national treasure...
TT

That's why you have to keep some cards very close to the chest.......

crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

That's why you have to keep some cards very close to the chest.......

crow

Welcome Crow!....Yeah the bigger the trove the greater the issues..it is better to locate something smaller and portable hidden isolated , than troves that attract such big news..
TT

 

[tintin_treasure]

In bigger troves like big wrecks,,as I always said it is better to try to trade the location info for decent fee rather than attempt to get hands on the hardware itself.I term this soft treasure hunting...
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Another American marine exploration company was done out of half a billion dollars by the Spanish government over another galleon wreck.

I recall watching a programme regarding the same company who were trying to locate an old English wreck in the English Channel when the French authorities sent navy ships and aircraft to try and intimidate them. You can not hope to 'fight' governments and win with all the resources at their disposal. If they are determined to do something, they will do it and find ways around just about anything.

Hence as Crow has said, when you see big announcements about imminent discoveries of buried treasure, such as Robinson Crusoe Island, this English chap who was going to 'conquer' Cocos Island a few years back with his new-fangled technology, a lady in Ecuador who claimed to have found Atahualpa's last resting place a couple of years ago and so on, I generally believe that no wise, self-respecting discoverer would make such grandiose statements before uncovering a single piece of gold or silver or anything that relates to evidence of a major find...


IPUK

 

[Crow]

Hello IPIU

Spot on!

No treasure is yours until your on that super yacht away from the country and location of find with money in a tax haven.



There has been so many claims to treasure only to end up in farce. The trouble each failure solidify's opinions against and would be treasure hunters dealing with governments. Governments and officials are terrified of scandal that risks there high powered jobs so why risk negotiation when it easier to say no.

Crow

 

[Interested Party in UK]

So that's the "rickety boat" you gents entertain the ladies on...niiiiceeeee

That's the irony of this game I would say; do things properly and there's a good chance you'll get shafted..

Keep it quiet and you risk being accused of all sorts.

Crow, you ever come across the story about possible pirate loot on Norman Island in the Caribbean which may have been uncovered during WW2?


IPUK

 

[Crow]

Another American marine exploration company was done out of half a billion dollars by the Spanish government over another galleon wreck.

I recall watching a programme regarding the same company who were trying to locate an old English wreck in the English Channel when the French authorities sent navy ships and aircraft to try and intimidate them. You can not hope to 'fight' governments and win with all the resources at their disposal. If they are determined to do something, they will do it and find ways around just about anything.

Hence as Crow has said, when you see big announcements about imminent discoveries of buried treasure, such as Robinson Crusoe Island, this English chap who was going to 'conquer' Cocos Island a few years back with his new-fangled technology, a lady in Ecuador who claimed to have found Atahualpa's last resting place a couple of years ago and so on, I generally believe that no wise, self-respecting discoverer would make such grandiose statements before uncovering a single piece of gold or silver or anything that relates to evidence of a major find...


IPUK

Hello IPIU

I know some of the people who have had their finger burnt.

It a worrying lesson for trio own project and negotiations.

Crow