Misc data and adventures of a Tayopa treasure hunter

[tintin_treasure]

Its very ironic indeed.

I shall tell you a little story that is from the other end of the scale and you may know of it.

There was a chap watching TV in Japan one night in the 1990s. A Hollywood movie came on about a briefcase full of cash in a small town with intrigue, double-dealing, murder and mayhem. All the central characters in the film die and the bag full of cash is left secreted in a remote location. This fella got it into his head it was a real film and bought a ticket to the States. His body was discovered on a mountainside in a remote location that had been used in the movie.

True story that. I believe the film starred Willem Defoe as a sheriff.


IPUK

What a sad story IPUK,,unless checked ,the lure of hidden trove sometimes obscures reason and drive many to the extremes.
Speaking of hidden cash,,check this story from Austria back in 2010
Buried millions triggers Austrian treasure hunt - CNN.com

But could not find any follow up on it even though I wrote an email once to the tourism office of the town which was enjoying the publicity.
I don't know if it is a treasure legend or if it has been concluded.

TT

 

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[Interested Party in UK]

Oh yes TT, I remember this one. I think the chap who allegedly had hid the money had fallen foul of his criminal bosses and they had set him up to take the fall because they believe he'd tried to pull a fast one on them.

Don't believe there was anything else left to find.
But intriguing nonetheless.

IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

Oh yes TT, I remember this one. I think the chap who allegedly had hid the money had fallen foul of his criminal bosses and they had set him up to take the fall because they believe he'd tried to pull a fast one on them.

Don't believe there was anything else left to find.
But intriguing nonetheless.

IPUK

Quiet amazing,,but the town reaped some economic benefit for some months,,
TT

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Hey Crow

Glad your back.

Any thoughts on the Agrihan treasure thing?


IPUK

 

[Crow]

Thanks IPUK,,,yes,there are many stories Like that..Even without compromising one's integrity one may land in a good score with the right moment.
If you buy a strange looking painting which you may have a hunch it could be something for very small amount of euros in flea market,,and it later proves to be a genuine work of millions worth,,,then you can have it auctioned or sell it privately and return to that same poor family and give them substantial good amount.You are not obliged to do so legally,.But conscience might dictate it.You just bought by hunch not knowing its value but once you reap something you can go back and reward the original owners.It could be one angle worth considering if one travels a lot.

TT

TT That no good rum drinking taffy tropical tramp Hardluck although working hard laboring jobs on drilling rigs once many years ago majored in art history.There is a secret world behind the art world of money laundering and tax avoidance by multinational companies.

That aside if you interested a list of missing paintings that was lost because of war and theft. The trouble is the original owners or descendants can legally claim for their missing artworks back if you cannot prove Provence even if bought in a flea market. There has been notable forced repatriation of paintings found by people of late forced by an international commission to recover stolen artifacts and cultural items.

The case of old German with hundreds of paintings in flat is one case in question. But there are others.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Hey Crow

Glad your back.

Any thoughts on the Agrihan treasure thing?


IPUK

Hello TT time is short for me this morning as I have breakfast. Interesting and true story however Gabrriel Lafond was not the only primary source of the story. Unfortunately he also made assumptions which are taken by some as fact.

Once again this soon to be drunken bum passes the buck that slippery ball of treasure legends to Kanacki as he is in Marianas as I type. You know Hardluck actually was in correspondence with a descendant of Roberton.

Crow

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Some interesting points there Crow.

Another case where assumptions became accepted fact.

Hardluck seems to leave nothing to chance.

I presume that the gold was actually taken by Roberton and cohorts.

Question is, did he squander it or secrete it?

IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

TT That no good rum drinking taffy tropical tramp Hardluck although working hard laboring jobs on drilling rigs once many years ago majored in art history.There is a secret world behind the art world of money laundering and tax avoidance by multinational companies.

That aside if you interested a list of missing paintings that was lost because of war and theft. The trouble is the original owners or descendants can legally claim for their missing artworks back if you cannot prove Provence even if bought in a flea market. There has been notable forced repatriation of paintings found by people of late forced by an international commission to recover stolen artifacts and cultural items.

The case of old German with hundreds of paintings in flat is one case in question. But there are others.

Crow

thanks Crow...yeah you are right ,if the art is stolen it will be claimed...but still there could be some here and there...
i am aware the art world is completely intrigue filled.,,,to add to the complexity , with very smart forgers in past decades especially in the past century even the best experts have been fooled.To this day a considerable number of paintings could be hanging in Museums without being exposed as fakes some art crime experts say..Do you know how the Mona Lisa was stolen? The Italian worker story was just a pawn in a much bigger game..he just contorted the italian nationalist idea to save himself when captured..the game was played elsewhere and they have got away with it..

TT

 

[Crow]

thanks Crow...yeah you are right ,if the art is stolen it will be claimed...but still there could be some here and there...
i am aware the art world is completely intrigue filled.,,,to add to the complexity , with very smart forgers in past decades especially in the past century even the best experts have been fooled.To this day a considerable number of paintings could be hanging in Museums without being exposed as fakes some art crime experts say..Do you know how the Mona Lisa was stolen? The Italian worker story was just a pawn in a much bigger game..he just contorted the italian nationalist idea to save himself when captured..the game was played elsewhere and they have got away with it..

TT

TT If you can track down the following paintings there is a nice reward.



Disappeared in: 2002
Reward offered: £870,000
This painting is one of two stolen from the Vincent van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam in December 2002. Two thieves broke into the building through the roof, and managed to steal Congregation Leaving the Reformed Church in Neunen and View of the Sea at Scheveningen in just a few minutes. Together, the works are thought to be worth £25 million. Although Dutch police convicted two men a year later, the paintings remain unrecovered.


Also



Disappeared in: 1990
Reward offered: £3.2 million
The Storm of the Sea of Galilee was one of the 13 artworks taken from Boston's Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in America's biggest art theft. More than 20 years later, the FBI's investigation into the crime is still open, with a $5 million reward on offer for information leading to finding the paintings in good condition.
A pair of thieves stole the art after posing as police officers and museum guards allowed them entry. They managed to handcuff both guards on duty and trapped them in the basement while they robbed the gallery.




Disappeared in: 2000
Reward offered: Undisclosed
As Oxford's revellers were welcoming in the Millenium, a criminal used the opportunity to break into the city's Ashmolean Museum and steal Cezanne's painting, View of Auvers-sur-Oise. The painting is still unlocated, although no public reward has been offered for information.




Disappeared in: 1990
Reward offered: £3.2 million
This Vermeer painting was also a victim of the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum theft. Valued at £130 million, it is thought to be the most valuable unrecovered stolen painting in history.




Disappeared in: 1988
Reward offered: 300,000 German Marks (£132,000)
As art thefts go, the disappearance of Lucian Freud's portrait of Francis Bacon was unusual. For 25 years there have been no rumours or information about its location, whereas criminal gangs usually await a ransom before dropping hints. Freud designed his own 'wanted' poster for the stolen image, but even this didn't elicit a response. Instead, the portrait is thought to have been taken from Berlin's Neue Nationalgalerie by a Bacon fan or student, as the gallery was full of students at the time

Just some of the missing.

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

TT If you can track down the following paintings there is a nice reward.

View attachment 1242990

Disappeared in: 2002
Reward offered: £870,000
This painting is one of two stolen from the Vincent van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam in December 2002. Two thieves broke into the building through the roof, and managed to steal Congregation Leaving the Reformed Church in Neunen and View of the Sea at Scheveningen in just a few minutes. Together, the works are thought to be worth £25 million. Although Dutch police convicted two men a year later, the paintings remain unrecovered.


Also

View attachment 1242991

Disappeared in: 1990
Reward offered: £3.2 million
The Storm of the Sea of Galilee was one of the 13 artworks taken from Boston's Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum in America's biggest art theft. More than 20 years later, the FBI's investigation into the crime is still open, with a $5 million reward on offer for information leading to finding the paintings in good condition.
A pair of thieves stole the art after posing as police officers and museum guards allowed them entry. They managed to handcuff both guards on duty and trapped them in the basement while they robbed the gallery.

View attachment 1242992


Disappeared in: 2000
Reward offered: Undisclosed
As Oxford's revellers were welcoming in the Millenium, a criminal used the opportunity to break into the city's Ashmolean Museum and steal Cezanne's painting, View of Auvers-sur-Oise. The painting is still unlocated, although no public reward has been offered for information.

View attachment 1242996


Disappeared in: 1990
Reward offered: £3.2 million
This Vermeer painting was also a victim of the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum theft. Valued at £130 million, it is thought to be the most valuable unrecovered stolen painting in history.

View attachment 1242997


Disappeared in: 1988
Reward offered: 300,000 German Marks (£132,000)
As art thefts go, the disappearance of Lucian Freud's portrait of Francis Bacon was unusual. For 25 years there have been no rumours or information about its location, whereas criminal gangs usually await a ransom before dropping hints. Freud designed his own 'wanted' poster for the stolen image, but even this didn't elicit a response. Instead, the portrait is thought to have been taken from Berlin's Neue Nationalgalerie by a Bacon fan or student, as the gallery was full of students at the time

Just some of the missing.

Crow

thanks Crow ! If one is able to track one of these the reward is substantial and do not need to worry with the hassles...but most of these by now are underground in the mafia world being traded as collateral in shady deals....but all the same it would be good to be on the lookout maybe they are hidden in plain sight hanging somewhere or sold in flea or antique markets with another mundane painting superimposed on top...one sad story is of a recent robbery in a rotterdam museum in 2012 ,,,and even though they were caught the paintings have been destroyed by the mother of one of the thieves (they were from eastern europe)..apparently she was trying to destroy evidence.
TT

 

[Crow]

thanks Crow ! If one is able to track one of these the reward is substantial and do not need to worry with the hassles...but most of these by now are underground in the mafia world being traded as collateral in shady deals....but all the same it would be good to be on the lookout maybe they are hidden in plain sight hanging somewhere or sold in flea or antique markets with another mundane painting superimposed on top...one sad story is of a recent robbery in a rotterdam museum in 2012 ,,,and even though they were caught the paintings have been destroyed by the mother of one of the thieves (they were from eastern europe)..apparently she was trying to destroy evidence.
TT

TT Not just the Mafia but some times the museums themselves after all some of these valuable paints are insured. Whats a nice way pay for repairs to aging infrastructure have an art theft?

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

TT Not just the Mafia but some times the museums themselves after all some of these valuable paints are insured. Whats a nice way pay for repairs to aging infrastructure have an art theft?

Crow

LOL we live in a crooked world,it is possible,,,
Of all the paintings, there could be a high probability of finding a Picasso as he was very prolific,,one source lists the following
13,500 paintings
100,000 graphic prints or engravings
34,000 book illustrations
300 sculptures and ceramics

it was not surprising then that 271 works of Picaso surfaced at once in France sometime back
271 Picasso paintings discovered in Paris - Telegraph

many of his works are till out there scattered around misplaced somewhere
TT

 

[Crow]

LOL we live in a crooked world,it is possible,,,
Of all the paintings, there could be a high probability of finding a Picasso as he was very prolific,,one source lists the following
13,500 paintings
100,000 graphic prints or engravings
34,000 book illustrations
300 sculptures and ceramics

it was not surprising then that 271 works of Picaso surfaced at once in France sometime back
271 Picasso paintings discovered in Paris - Telegraph

many of his works are till out there scattered around misplaced somewhere
TT

YA mean like this one?



Le pigeon aux petits pois (The Pigeon with Green Peas) is a 1911 painting by Pablo Picasso It was one of five paintings stolen from the Museum of Modern art Paris on May 20, 2010, which together are worth about €100 million ($123 million). The painting has been confirmed as discarded, as the thief threw it in a trash container shortly after the theft. Unfortunately, the container was emptied before it was discovered where the painting could be found

Crow[SUP][/SUP]

 

[Loke]

I'm gobsmacked here!! - salivating!! (But no - got my own beans to fry so will never be a competitor!)
Thank you IPUK, Tintin and Crow for a most entertaining and educational conversation!

 

[Crow]

TT YA also might like to look for there.



The largest art theft in world history occurred in Boston on March 18, 1990 when thieves stole 13 pieces, collectively worth $500 million, from the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum Among the pieces stolen was Landscape with an Obelisk, which previously was attributed to Rembrandt A reward of $5,000,000 is still offered for information leading to their return.





The Navivity with St Francis and St Lawrence (also known as The Adoration) is a painting from 1609 by the Italian Baroque master Caravaggio was taken by the thief or thieves (two suspected) before being taken out of the church. After it was stolen, the Oratory was pillaged of other art, along with choir stalls of carved and gilded wood and benches inlaid with mother of pearl.



Poppy Flowers (also known as Vase and Flowers and Vase with Viscaria) is a painting by with an estimated value of $50 million The painting, which is of a vase of yellow and red poppies, contrasted against a dark background is a reflection of Van Gogh's deep admiration for Adolphe Monticelli, an older painter whose work influenced him when first he saw it in Paris in 1886. Vincent Van Gogh Egyptian officials erroneously believed they had recovered the painting only hours after its theft when two Italian suspects attempted to board a plane to Italy at Ciro international airport . The same painting had been stolen from the same museum on June 4, 1977, and was recovered ten years late in Kuwait. The painting is small, measuring 65 x 54 cm, and depicts yellow and red Poopy flowers.It is believed that van Gogh painted it in 1887, three years before his suicide.[SUP][/SUP]



Portrait of a Young Man is a painting in oil on Panel, probably from 1513–1514, by the old master painter and architect Raffaello Sanzio da Urbino better known simply as Raphael The painting was plundered by the Nazis in Poland. The subject's identity is unverified, but many scholars have traditionally regarded it as Raphael's self portrait The facial features are perceived by specialists as compatible with, if not clearly identical to, the only undoubted self-portrait by Raphael in his fresco the school of Athens at the Vatican, identified as such by Vasari . If it is a self-portrait, no hint is given of Raphael's profession; the portrait shows a richly-dressed and "confidently-poised" young man. In recent times, a book about Nazi Plunder by Lyn Nicholas and a documentary film by the same title, Rape of Europa suggested that if the painting were to reappear today, it would be worth in excess of $100M US.

Not bad earner if ya can find it....


Crow

 

[Crow]

I'm gobsmacked here!! - salivating!! (But no - got my own beans to fry so will never be a competitor!)
Thank you IPUK, Tintin and Crow for a most entertaining and educational conversation!

Hello Loke my pleasure but it show treasure can be sometimes more than gold silver and precious gems.

And beside it rather cool to think if these silver tailed elitists want there paintings back they have to pay for it..


Crow

 

[prospecter77]

A story a friend of mine told me about this , ne was in Northern France after the war and ready to ship home , he met a Frenchmen who had worked at a salt mine , any he told me he and the Frenchmen climbed down a concreated escape way 200 feet into the mine , They were limited to small items like gold rings and watches and etc. He knew to much because next thing you know he was reassigned to Okinawa and put on beach detail . He told me Ross Perot and Others cleaned that salt mine out . my Friends name was Johnny Parker , he was a black man from Mississippi .

 

[prospecter77]

Hello Crow , you ready for one last Hoorah , come on down to Colorado , New Mexico for a hunt , this area was the Camino Real and camps every one days ride . I have Many sites , and found another just today , These Treasures were part of Juan Pedro Peralta , AKA Paul of Schweinfurt , he was my grandfather on my mothers side he was also Sebastian Pablo of Cacaux Colombia . He moved to Vittorio Texas in the late 1800's and was one of the TEXANS , along with my other Grandfather John Baca , they mined from Colorado to Colombia . Mexico at Tayopa , Zacatecas or Baca Texas , Texas is for Tixan in Colombia , Tixan was sacrificing humans their and he Conquered them . History is not correct .

 

[prospecter77]

History is not as old as we were told .

Hello Crow , you ready for one last Hoorah , come on down to Colorado , New Mexico for a hunt , this area was the Camino Real and camps every one days ride . I have Many sites , and found another just today , These Treasures were part of Juan Pedro Peralta , AKA Paul of Schweinfurt , he was my grandfather on my mothers side he was also Sebastian Pablo of Cacaux Colombia .

 

[prospecter77]

Have fun all you ole coots , I'm headed hunting elk for 5 days ,