Metal Detectiing TN. cave / Anybody done this?

[JeromeAz]

Hey Buddy.... I had GREAT PLANS for doing a LOT more exploring this spring. But my younger caving buddy got a new job and is always gone now. I really wanted to properly map it and then lay it on top of Google Earth or a topo map and see where this damn thing is going. It's hard to carry items back by myself also. I wanted to make a good sifter and start sifting near the entrance but I lost my helper. And I wanted to make a good quality video also and re-post so everyone got the proper idea of this cave and it's environment. Frank (Huntsman53) and I went back awhile ago with the goal of looking for another small entrance at the other end but failed. Frank lives in East TN. and is just to big a man with a bad back to help me within the cave. And this entire area needs to be MD'ed also. I need a new caving buddy who isn't frightened in small places and really has a sense of adventure. I hate to go back by myself and probably shouldn't. There's some ancient bones that a guys saw from a photo in the middle of the streambed that need to be photo'd with a scale next to them.... So Doc.... how's your schedule looking?

Come on Brad! The entire world is waiting on you!

 

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[Limitool]

Come on Brad! The entire world is waiting on you!

Come on Clay.... I think your OVERSTATING this just a tad. But I do have a question you folks may be able to help me with. When I go back to start mapping I know the process I need to follow to get this done BUT.... here's the question.

What can I use to write on and record each stage on as I go along? It has to be WATERPROOF. Able to BE IN WATER or dropped into water. We were going to use my friends Iphone and record the data as we went along and then transfer later on paper to scale. I don't have one. So what now? And since this is a undocumented cave there is no map or data available. I'm only going to attempt to map 1/2 of the cave up to where I can't get through anymore. The cave rock has apparently shrunk (not me getting fatter). And the back part of this cave was so different then the front part for some reason. So any ideas on how I can record this data?

 

[JeromeAz]

Come on Clay.... I think your OVERSTATING this just a tad. But I do have a question you folks may be able to help me with. When I go back to start mapping I know the process I need to follow to get this done BUT.... here's the question.

What can I use to write on and record each stage on as I go along? It has to be WATERPROOF. Able to BE IN WATER or dropped into water. We were going to use my friends Iphone and record the data as we went along and then transfer later on paper to scale. I don't have one. So what now? And since this is a undocumented cave there is no map or data available. I'm only going to attempt to map 1/2 of the cave up to where I can't get through anymore. The cave rock has apparently shrunk (not me getting fatter). And the back part of this cave was so different then the front part for some reason. So any ideas on how I can record this data?

Yeah maybe just a bit.

I would say some laminated paper and a permanent marker. Its lightweight easy to carry. Another option would be one of those message boards like you would stick on your frig. Its not going to hurt if it gets wet either. Bigger but still lightweight. Just to be safe take a grease pencil with you too in case you get all the way out there and find out that your permanent marker isn't permanent. Also I have all topos laminated for such reasons. You could try that.

If all else fails use Ground Penetrating Radar!

Good luck!

Clay

 

[BVI Hunter]

I use this on my site;

Amazon.com : Scuba Dive Underwater Writing Slate (6"x5"), Glow in the Dark : Diving Communication Devices : Sports & Outdoors

good for on land / wet situations too!

 

[SADS 669]

I use this on my site; Amazon.com : Scuba Dive Underwater Writing Slate (6"x5"), Glow in the Dark : Diving Communication Devices : Sports & Outdoors good for on land / wet situations too!

This would presume you can write which is in doubt being ex Spec Ops........maybe they come with crayons.

 

[SADS 669]

Come on Clay.... I think your OVERSTATING this just a tad. But I do have a question you folks may be able to help me with. When I go back to start mapping I know the process I need to follow to get this done BUT.... here's the question. What can I use to write on and record each stage on as I go along? It has to be WATERPROOF. Able to BE IN WATER or dropped into water. We were going to use my friends Iphone and record the data as we went along and then transfer later on paper to scale. I don't have one. So what now? And since this is a undocumented cave there is no map or data available. I'm only going to attempt to map 1/2 of the cave up to where I can't get through anymore. The cave rock has apparently shrunk (not me getting fatter). And the back part of this cave was so different then the front part for some reason. So any ideas on how I can record this data?

Brad,

Contact Brian Kakuk in Abaco he is in my opinion the best cave diver in the world ( nat geo etc) his email is bahamacave at aol mention I suggested you contact him for advice, great guy, very helpful. He'll know the answer...?

BVI's post is a great idea but a little small ( his normal problem I hear dde0a ) you may want to use a thin plastic chopping board, pencil writes on them pretty good and you can get quite big ones.

You can also buy pretty much waterproof I pad covers, I'll PM you the details, I have to get my computer bitc.......sorry buddy to send me the link

 

[Msbeepbeep]

You may want to take a pic of each drawing with the go pro or any water/drop proof camera you have with you for back & logging the pics.

Is the roof of the cave slowly collapsing downward? If so the cave roof would have been a lot higher in the past, easier getting around in there.

Do be careful in there, you, tight underground spaces, & water don't mix well!

 

[DFX DAVE in M.D.]

I wonder if Rut N Buck and his buddy Bad Back Bill are able to get out your way and help you on this cave search.

 

[DocBeav]

Pretty tight schedule buddy. Still overseas in this sandy crap hole but leaving just in time to be home for the 4th.....if the hurricane doesn't mess with that. Only have a short time there before I come back here again. Would love to come help ya man but don't see it happening anytime soon!

 

[JeromeAz]

Got a piece of plexiglass? That would work too. Shine the light on it or hold it over it as you write.

 

[Limitool]

You may want to take a pic of each drawing with the go pro or any water/drop proof camera you have with you for back & logging the pics. Is the roof of the cave slowly collapsing downward? If so the cave roof would have been a lot higher in the past, easier getting around in there. Do be careful in there, you, tight underground spaces, & water don't mix well!

Thanks everybody for the advise. And MBB... Good idea using the throw away cameras as backup. Don't have the Go Pro (Jordon did). And the caves roof hasn't changed since 94' when I first found this. The water isn't bad... just a small shallow stream running right down the middle of the cave. But.... anything you take in past the first 30-40 yds. will get wet. I don't have an I-pad but when Jordon took his "waterproof" I-phone in.... it was shot when he came out!!!! I just got to be careful NOT to loose each stage numbers as I go back so I can put together a map when I come back out.

I'd still like to really know for sure what the etched mud mound is just past light. It's just hard to believe that it is a sediment cask from old saltpeter mining. It's just in a too hard to reach spot for that I believe. And the one WAY BACK in I know for sure is not a saltpeter cask. But this square block is THERE!!! I just got to find me a new caving buddy to help. I'm really interested in getting a sifter back there and having some fun.

 

[Old Dude]

Would a permanent marker work on waxed paper? If so, water shouldn't hurt the paper and you could roll it like a scroll. I know about shrinking spaces as I get older too, lol!

 

[SADS 669]

Thanks everybody for the advise. And MBB... Good idea using the throw away cameras as backup. Don't have the Go Pro (Jordon did). And the caves roof hasn't changed since 94' when I first found this. The water isn't bad... just a small shallow stream running right down the middle of the cave. But.... anything you take in past the first 30-40 yds. will get wet. I don't have an I-pad but when Jordon took his "waterproof" I-phone in.... it was shot when he came out!!!! I just got to be careful NOT to loose each stage numbers as I go back so I can put together a map when I come back out. I'd still like to really know for sure what the etched mud mound is just past light. It's just hard to believe that it is a sediment cask from old saltpeter mining. It's just in a too hard to reach spot for that I believe. And the one WAY BACK in I know for sure is not a saltpeter cask. But this square block is THERE!!! I just got to find me a new caving buddy to help. I'm really interested in getting a sifter back there and having some fun.

Brad,

I watched your video and you or Jordan were asking what the horizontal lines in the mud were on top of the mounds ? could they be rope or twine marks that were holding a tarp or skin over the top of it? Just a thought?

 

[Limitool]

Brad,

I watched your video and you or Jordan were asking what the horizontal lines in the mud were on top of the mounds ? could they be rope or twine marks that were holding a tarp or skin over the top of it? Just a thought?

Don't know. But that leads to the questions on why? This is in a very tight low spot. You have to lie on your stomach mainly. And I'm referring to the etched mound up front with the symbols. IF... you're referring about us talking about the one WAY BACK IN... then hell no. Nobody would want to "stay" back there. But... this mound is THERE!!!! And there's a tunnel behind it going back into the wall. I'd have to destroy the mound to get back and look within. And there's a depression or tunnel behind the mound up front also but we can't get a light into it without destroying it also. Jordon said "Let's tear it apart... NOW". But I said no... not yet. Both may just be natural tunnels or depressions... But those horizontal lines are weird though.

 

[SADS 669]

Maybe the mounds are like sentry's formed to block off entranceways and the skins were tied on the tops while they dried and hardened to stop dripping water eroding them. Hopefully the mound in the way has no archeological reason you can't eeek out enough space to pass. Remember go round, under, over or through but progress ha ha. Maybe it's as simple as drying skins for clothing?

 

[Limitool]

Maybe the mounds are like sentry's formed to block off entranceways and the skins were tied on the tops while they dried and hardened to stop dripping water eroding them. Hopefully the mound in the way has no archeological reason you can't eeek out enough space to pass. Remember go round, under, over or through but progress ha ha.

The etched mound up front CANNOT be moved. You can see it did break under it's own weigh long ago. Going over is OUT! And going around would be a VERY TOUGH venture. There's just no room to work. When I dug in front of the etched mound where was an empty space that ran partly under it. I couldn't get a MD into this spot. I still hate to destroy this mound and it's symbols. I'll re-post some pics of this mound so new folks don't have to dig back into the thread. And SADS... the one way back in cave has no earthly reason to be there and I've been told this could be a "natural" mound. But with squared off corners and sides?

 

[SADS 669]

Oh dear, very sad that the one mound you "need" to keep is the one in the way. Well "Murphy's law" is alive and well in Tennessee I notice......best of luck all the same.

 

[DocBeav]

Weather is cooling off...have you been back to the cave yet? When is the next expedition and what is the plan?

 

[Limitool]

Weather is cooling off...have you been back to the cave yet? When is the next expedition and what is the plan?

Hey Doc... No I haven't been back since Spring. Wish ya lived next door or had a week to spend here w/me. My caving buddy moved away and I don't have anyone to help get sifters back or help. I really wanted to get it mapped but I need help. I still hate to destroy any mounds to see what's behind them in the openings also. And... I wanted to sift for artifacts for a few days also. I'd also like to MD the entire area on the outside of this cave. Especially the top of the ridge it's located within. So I really don't have a plan written in stone but I'd like to.

Got any vacation time? I got a spare bedroom and bath...

 

[BurntBear]

Very interesting thread. Subscribing.