Lost Treasures of Ecuador

[Crow]

Hello Mackaydon Most likely although I am not sure as I heard through the grapevine that a group a was searching for Clausius quite some time ago I not heard anything since.

I will be going back to Australia in couple of days. My exersise here in the South of France has been interrupted as I have hurt a muscle in my neck and back. That's the problem for the trio these days our bodies are wearing out. And old injury has flared up. A hang over from the days I was young and thought I was bullet proof.

Crow

 

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[doc-d]

Tried to find more info on Claius; it seems they set out to salvage it, but had problem with the ship…..here is an article from 2009 where they then switched to the Capitana……..and nothing since All seems sort of crazy…….and then he is somehow involved emeralds found off Florida

Scott Heimdal (newspaper archives - 1 )

PEORIA - The focus of Scott Heimdal's Peoria-based Pacific Ocean treasure hunting operation has shifted to a second shipwrecked Spanish galleon off

the coast of Ecuador.

"We're now sitting on a wreck that we think is very valuable," Heimdal said in a phone interview Wednesday from Ecuador. "How valuable is impossible to say. Because the truth is until it's recovered, cleaned, catalogued and appraised we don't know what it's worth at the end of the day."

The newest target of Heimdal's interest is known as the Capitana, a silver coin-laden ship wrecked in 1654 on Chanduy Reef, near the mouth of Ecuador's Guayaquil River. It's now in pieces and mostly submerged beneath four to eight feet of mud, sand and clay in tantalizingly shallow waters less than 40 feet deep. Divers have been able to salvage some coins in recent months, Heimdal said, but the bulk of the booty remains inaccessibly buried.

"We need new equipment in order to get at (the treasure)," Heimdal said.

It's an old problem. Almost three years ago, Heimdal's team searched for the Clarius, a Spanish galleon that sank in an undetermined spot off Ecuador in 1594. That operation required a boat specially rigged with "blowers," essentially large steel tubes that aid access to the coins that are literally buried in the ocean floor. The boat they chartered for the search, the Beacon, was damaged in Hurricane Katrina in September 2005, and the owners never made the necessary repairs. It languishes in drydock at an Alabama marina.

As a result, the Clarius operation stalled and because investors couldn't wait forever for good news and a clear view of some financial payoff, Heimdal and his crew opted to change direction.

"We had to move on," Heimdal said. "The Clarius is on hold for now."

Without ever pinpointing the location of the Clarius, the salvage operation moved to the Capitana, a shipwreck the Ecuadoran government has given Heimdal's business, RS Operations LLC, permission to pursue, he said. Heimdal called the Capitana exploration a "bird in the hand," which by logical extension characterized the Clarius adventure as two birds in the bush.

The Capitana operation still needs a boat equipped with blowers. Heimdal said four different boats are being considered - for purchase this time, not charter - and could be rigged and ready to pick up the search next month.

The amount of Capitana buried treasure hinted at on the company's Web site is mind-boggling. The boat may have been carrying as many as 10 million pesos when it sank, with between 10 percent and 20 percent remaining on the ocean floor today, according to the Web site. The value of each piece could range from $100 to several thousand dollars, Heimdal said, depending on its value to collectors. He said he believed the entire bounty of coins would fill the back of a pickup truck.

Heimdal and his company would get half the haul, while the other half would go to the Ecuadorian government, according to an agreement between the two parties.

By comparison, the Atocha, a ship salvaged in the 1980s by famed treasure hunter Mel Fisher, carried 750,000 pesos that were believed to be valued at several hundred million dollars.

"We are involved in a complex and expensive business," Heimdal said. "But we have a good outlook that is currently bearing some nice recoveries."

Scott Hilyard can be reached at 686-3244 or [email protected].

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Atahualpa 's ransom and the Valverde Derrotero were/are two different stories that were
intertwined for various reasons.

 

[Crow]

Hello IPIU

Have heard from ya in while, I hope all is well. Some interesting comment care to elaborate?

Cheers Crow

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Hello me Old Crow

All's good thanks - hopes it's the same with you.

Been "Off The Scene" for awhile.

With the stories/legends/myths about Atahualpa's missing ransom from Quito and the Valverde Derrotero, my interest was piqued initially by my passion for all things Inca.

About a decade ago, I came across various snippets pertaining to the Llanganatis mountains and how there was a reputed treasure there supposedly from the ransom that was put together to free (well, to try in any event) Atahualpa. I then came across various books; Honigsbaum's, Lourie's and MacInness. I read and then reread all of them and soaked up everything that was available on the stories. There was a group that contacted me with the intention of mounting an expedition and reconn into those particular mountains. They had been in contact with Steve Charbonneau, and believed they had "new information". I also contacted Lourie and Honigsbaum but they were 'over' that initial interest in the legend and really did not offer much. Anyway, I continued to delve, probe, question and look into it. Got to say, it was and is, a really fascinating mystery.

What I did discover after putting in the legwork is that, there is no real link between the two and was actually a 20th Century invention. Spruce merely mentioned in his notes when he copied a copy of the original Derrotero, that "There was a lake into which the ancients threw in the treasure that was going to b used to free their Lord Inca". Nothing whatsoever about it coming from Quito, being 'large' - merely 'some' treasure that was going to be used as part of the ransom. This is what was actually found by a European at the turn of the last century who was the only documented case (as far as I am aware), in which treasure was retrieved in that haunting region known as the Llanganatis mountains.

From the research I did, the most likely destination for Atahualpa's personal treasure from his palace in Quito, was actually taken north of the Llanganatis mountain region into the mountains inhabited by his maternal relations who were native to current-day Ecuador. It was substantial and was buried with him and there is a small story here and there that I did come across.

As for the 'Valverde Derrotero', it existed alright. But. It never actually left the Quito archives. That is why nobody has discovered it in the archive in Seville. There was a letter sent to the king of Spain asking for instructions when this Valverde gave his deathbed submission. The actual site is debatable. There was also a 'Valverde' who actually discovered a treasure cave north of Quito and showed some of the treasure to the authorities in Quito. This 'other' Valverde with his Derrotero of the Llanganatis did not actually show a single piece of anything. It is debatable what was there.

But, like I said, very interesting and captivating nonetheless.

IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

thanks IPUK,,do tell us more in general terms what little stories abound in the north of the llangnates.

tintin treasure

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Well, TT.

I came across some strong references from different and reputable sources, that Atahualpa to all intent and purposes was considered a "Northerner" due to his mother being from present-day Ecuador and even his father - the great Huayna Capac - was captivated by the northern portion of his recently conquered (about 50 odd years) before his death. Atahualpa was heavily influenced by his maternal family, the Shyris, and they formed the backbone of his inner circle. After his murder by the conquistadores, it was not the Incas under Ruminahui - as per popular belief - that recovered his body from Cajamarca and returned to Quito whilst the Spanish met their date with destiny in the south and Cuzco, but a group of his most loyal and related warriors. Ruminhui had declared himself lord of Quito and tried to purge that city of all Atahualpa's family and loyalists. When he eventually fought Benalcazar and met his death at his hands, he did not do so for the glory of his former master and the Incas as a whole, simply as a personal mission to retain what he had taken - the northern kingdom. In early literature, Ruminhui is viewed as a traitor, but revisionists have given him an elevated position in Ecuadorean history.

Anyway, back to the original story.

When the Sapa Inca's body was brought back to his realm in the north, it was a slow procession where all the local caciques could pay their respects and lament the loss of their way of life due to the incursion from the strange foreigners now ravaging their lands. The body and all its possessions (that had been secured in Quito) were taken to an area near present-day Cayambe. About 200 years ago, an obscure book was written about the possibilities of sowing various crops from Asia in Ecuador. The surveyor gave details of something that he'd heard about an area that he was looking at. He said that a local priest had informed him that a local Indian native had died recently and he was the one who administered the last rites for this gentleman. The gentleman had stated that he was the last male member of his family and since the overthrow of the Inca empire, this native's family had been tasked with 'looking after' the final resting place of the last 'free' Sapa Inca. The priest was sceptical of this confession but soon became serious when the Indian showed him some personal objects reputedly from the Inca's body (he did not say what). The native was urged to disclose the final resting place - no doubt to ensure that any treasure was put to full use by the Catholic church - but he said that though he'd been a Christian for a long time, he'd been an Indian a lot longer. He would serve his lord Inca even in death.

There was several attempts to discover the site but nothing was found.

Then.

I came across another book about the Shyris and a possible connection with Atahualpa's last resting place. The area around Otovalo was important even in Inca times and a stronghold of their allies. Also, it was not fully conquered and controlled by the Spanish until about 30-40 years after the death of Atahualpa. The Shyris were a powerful people with many connections in those areas.

It is now accepted that no significant amount of treasure was ever given-up or robbed by the Spanish in Quito. Whereas there was not tons and tons as per some estimates and "hundreds of llama-loads", there is no denying that Huayna Capac's northern capital where he actually had his heart buried after his death and body sent to Cuzco, and Atahualpa's base, would have no significant amount of treasure. That was always a bugbear of the conquistadors that they had not had a significant 'reward' from present-day Ecuador.

In the 1950s, a group of American adventurers claimed to have a treasure map detailing where they believed a large portion of the ransom was hidden after the death of Atahualpa. They came into Peru (not Ecuador) via the sea and left with a private chartered plane with a very significant haul secured from the Sechura desert. It was detailed in a book by an author who is still living. But I do not believe it was Incan in origin as the pieces clearly look Chimu and they also found a chamber with beautiful artisanal pottery. In my opinion they simply dug into a rich mound and got 'lucky'.

IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

IPUK, thanks a lot! that was very very insightful and original insight. I just checked and the distance between Otavalo and Cayambe is 24.39 km which is quite short.As both towns are highlighted in your research in connection to Atahaulapa's burial. Maybe a new round of attempt is worth a try around those two towns for interested adventurers.

tintin treasure

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

well Crow, i guess i'll just have to pak up and fill in for you. (Err ah which French maid it ------?

I am extremely sorry that you were scrubbed at the last moment, from too much extra activity/

 

[Crow]

Hello Don Jose ya know they all wear me out.

See what exersice can do to ya. Got to get a muscle/Tendon worked on my back and neck when I get back to Aus.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Hello IPIU

Some real interesting comments made there. As I wrote else where there is little contemporary mention in the ancient books written on the conquest that actually mentions the treasure train of gold. After filling the room full of gold for his ransom.

I do have some information of a massive cemetery where much Inca gold was found Notrth of Quito. However that is for another day as I packing to leave.

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Crow, soo sorry since you were looking forward to the adventure. But look at it this way you wiil be in top shape for the next one, and of course,there will always be a next one.

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello Don Jose ya know they all wear me out.

See what exersice can do to ya. Got to get a muscle/Tendon worked on my back and neck when I get back to Aus.

Crow

Sorry to hear Crow of your back problems..

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Sorry to hear Crow of your back problems..

tintin treasure

Hello TT its not the age it mileage that hurts.

If I was car I would be in scrap yard by now

Crow

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hello TT its not the age it mileage that hurts.

If I was car I would be in scrap yard by now

Crow

Crow, what I recommend you is the Budapest hot spring baths.I never saw anything like it. The water is widely believed by experrs to contain minerals of every sort and is highly recommended for bone and related muscle problems of every kind. You feel the water on your body as it is very heavy and very hot(there are differing temp pools as to your preference,of-course sauna,steam and physiotherapy rooms as well) ,,,few days there would make change to your physiqe...

tintin treasure

 

[Crow]

Crow, what I recommend you is the Budapest hot spring baths.I never saw anything like it. The water is widely believed by experrs to contain minerals of every sort and is highly recommended for bone and related muscle problems of every kind. You feel the water on your body as it is very heavy and very hot(there are differing temp pools as to your preference,of-course sauna,steam and physiotherapy rooms as well) ,,,few days there would make change to your physiqe...

tintin treasure

Yes I agree with ya it can have very good therapeutic properties. Also a good massage of Ukrainian women I know. Her fingers do wonders in muscle tissue around shoulders. neck and spine.

Crow

 

[doc-d]

Senor Crow………sorry to hear about the back problems……..our bodies response to our forgetting our age perhaps……
The Ukrainian massage, or any beautiful woman's massage will help……..
Perhaps the error that allowed the injury was the lack of coffee supplement? Figure alcohol can preserve muscles for you…….

Anyway, it would seem that this has presented you another opportunity to seek, perhaps one in SA? Those lovely senoritas can help sooth your feathers………..

 

[Interested Party in UK]

Hello IPIU

Some real interesting comments made there. As I wrote else where there is little contemporary mention in the ancient books written on the conquest that actually mentions the treasure train of gold. After filling the room full of gold for his ransom.

I do have some information of a massive cemetery where much Inca gold was found Notrth of Quito. However that is for another day as I packing to leave.

Crow

Hey Crow

Hope to hear about that one when you get the chance.

Good Luck with everything.

IPUK

 

[Interested Party in UK]

IPUK, thanks a lot! that was very very insightful and original insight. I just checked and the distance between Otavalo and Cayambe is 24.39 km which is quite short.As both towns are highlighted in your research in connection to Atahaulapa's burial. Maybe a new round of attempt is worth a try around those two towns for interested adventurers.

tintin treasure

Hey TT

Quite conceivable what you say, but the area where Atahualpa could be buried is now a national park. That does not mean that some 'activity' is not taking place. There was burial mounds there from previous civilizations that had/have been looted by various people and turned up some interesting finds. Also, you have to careful of the area itself - mountainous, tree covered and with various dangers and hazards (both animal and human). I would say that Atahualpa's final resting place was not that elaborate and probably took-up no more room than a small vehicle. Of course due to the climate of the area, I do not believe the body would have been preserved. Gold, silver and emeralds are another matter altogether....

Let others decide who such treasures belong to.....

I saw a programme on the tv yesterday regarding the mapping of Angkhor in Cambodia. There is now an aerial device which allows anyone to map a huge area of forest, jungle mountains and suchlike, in a few hours, whereas previously it would take decades. All manmade structures - both above and below ground - will show-up, as will barriers, feint roads, demarcation lines and unusual constructions.

Question is, is anyone ready to take a punt on finding the last free Sapa Inca's burial site?


IPUK

 

[tintin_treasure]

Hey TT

Quite conceivable what you say, but the area where Atahualpa could be buried is now a national park. That does not mean that some 'activity' is not taking place. There was burial mounds there from previous civilizations that had/have been looted by various people and turned up some interesting finds. Also, you have to careful of the area itself - mountainous, tree covered and with various dangers and hazards (both animal and human). I would say that Atahualpa's final resting place was not that elaborate and probably took-up no more room than a small vehicle. Of course due to the climate of the area, I do not believe the body would have been preserved. Gold, silver and emeralds are another matter altogether....

Let others decide who such treasures belong to.....

I saw a programme on the tv yesterday regarding the mapping of Angkhor in Cambodia. There is now an aerial device which allows anyone to map a huge area of forest, jungle mountains and suchlike, in a few hours, whereas previously it would take decades. All manmade structures - both above and below ground - will show-up, as will barriers, feint roads, demarcation lines and unusual constructions.

Question is, is anyone ready to take a punt on finding the last free Sapa Inca's burial site?


IPUK

thanks IPUK for the further infos. It is interesting to note that,if I am not mistaken the area in question though ofcourse deep jungle and a national park ,may not be part of the legendary llangantes national park.It is north of it.
thanks again.

p.s.do you plan to trek there?

tintin treasure