Legends, Maps, Coincidences, Logic, and Hunches.

[Springfield]

.... Just as I mentioned several times in this thread, public domain maps are automatically questionable, ....

Yes, why would anyone believe that any published 'treasure map' is going to lead him to the promised land? Same goes for those 'Peralta Maps' too, IMO. I contend that the same can be said about the treasure stories themselves if they appear in the public domain (books, magazines, newspapers, internet, et al). It's a simple matter of human nature, which is very predictable and malleable. If a pilgrim truly has, or thinks he has, proprietary information about the location of concealed valuables, there is simply no way he's going to release it - in many/most cases, not even to family or trusted associates. Period. He may reveal some stuff if necessary, but nothing that will jeopardize his prize in any way.

There is a myriad of information available about the subject of 'hidden treasure/lost mines'. Despite the professional efforts of the dedicated writers, the end result is generally the same: a well-researched narrative of the failures of those who have searched for the target at hand (if such target ever existed, of course).

 

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[EE THr]

Springfield---

I have no reason to disagree with your conclusion.

Well, maybe I do. Two reasons, actually.

...my curiosity became aroused, because of what they do reveal; not as mere individual maps, but when taken as a group.

and

...while I discounted it originally, after I had found Tayopa, it turned to be almost 100 % correct. I have no idea how many used it to look for Tayopa with no success, yet ,when it was understood, it turned out to be correct, except for the transition of two names.

Like RDT said, "Who knows until it is actually found?"

 

[Oroblanco]

Tropical Tramp wrote

I agree with the exception of Tayopa and two maps that I have, one from Dobie's 'Apache gold and Yaqui silver'. while I discounted it originally, after I had found Tayopa, it turned to be almost 100 % correct.

Until I see this assertion proven with my own eyes, that is looking directly at the mines themselves in person, I continue to hold the statement in doubt! <Kidding amigo, looking forward to meeting you and maybe even a trip to see those mines too! >

Our amigo Springfield has deep doubts about everything published about treasure tales, which I do not share. With but few exceptions, the treasure writers have published the info they had, as accurately as possible. The fact that the clues or maps will not lead a searcher to the treasure or mine do not prove that the writer with-held secret information that would, or that he/she deliberately published false and - or misleading information in order to keep others away. Perhaps it is a case of not understanding the motives of treasure writers; some of which have a real desire to see SOMEONE find the treasure of which they write, even if they do not live to see it happen, in the knowledge that by their small contribution to that success, they will be remembered. Treasure writers are not just a pack of liars making up stories in order to become wealthy on the sales of those stories, which route would prove very disappointing indeed. To judge the motives of another based on what your own motives may be, is a sure way to fall into error.

I have to agree with Real de Tayopa's statement, until the actual mine or treasure is found, who really knows whether any treasure map is correct or not? Chances are that most if not all treasure maps are deeply flawed, which is why they have failed to lead anyone to find the mines or treasures they purport to lead to, but the flaw may be minor or even a case of misinterpretation by the treasure hunter using it.
When and if the mine or treasure is found, it will then be possible to make comparisons with the various treasure maps and determine whether they were accurate or grossly inaccurate and false.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

.... Our amigo Springfield has deep doubts about everything published about treasure tales, which I do not share. With but few exceptions, the treasure writers have published the info they had, as accurately as possible. The fact that the clues or maps will not lead a searcher to the treasure or mine do not prove that the writer with-held secret information that would, or that he/she deliberately published false and - or misleading information in order to keep others away. Perhaps it is a case of not understanding the motives of treasure writers; .....

Oro, my doubts don't lie with the treasure writers per se. Disregarding the pulp writers and the rehashers, the accomplished writers are, or should be, essentially 'reporting the facts'. My point is that the source material the writers base their work on is tainted to begin with. Contemporary 'facts' provided by the original protagonist were certainly obfuscated per human nature, and the beliefs of the followers are subject to the original disinformation and further corrupted for the reasons familiar to any researcher. As with so much in life, many truths are not true.

Let's face it, in cases like the 'Lost Dutchman' and the 'Lost Adams', for example, with all the 'evidence' available for the past several generations, it seems as if the brightest of the thousands of searchers might have located these targets to the satisfaction of their colleagues.

 

[Blindbowman]

oro someone already did !

 

[Oroblanco]

Springfield wrote

My point is that the source material the writers base their work on is tainted to begin with.

All writers are at the mercy of their sources.

Blindbowman wrote

oro someone already did !

Not published, yet.

 

[Springfield]

Springfield wrote

My point is that the source material the writers base their work on is tainted to begin with.

All writers are at the mercy of their sources. .....

The road to he[[ is paved with good intentions.

 

[Oroblanco]

The road to he[[ is paved with good intentions.

Sounds like one whom has been burned too many times?

 

[Twisted Fork]

Picture yourself the first human being to suddenly look down and see a crevice of various stone in the ground; stone riddled with raw gold revealed by the recent winter ice.

Doing everything right from the beginning, careful to keep her silent and safe, and in time, you leave the area with every intention of returning again. In an effort to remember the location of the mine, you pick out a special place overlooking the site; one where in which many special features of the terrain sort of run together in a natural collage surrounding the dig. From here you draw a simple picture. You simply outline the dominant outlines of the crests and valleys as this encloses and creates shapes on paper to remind you of what you last remembered from the area brim on a broad scale...easy to grasp on return.

Now to protect the map from your RELATIVES!

Next, you think of a four number code such as 1847. Then you trace a line or two or three across your map picture using these four chosen numbers as protractor angles to set up your trace lines. Now you cut along trace lines as the map falls into parts; of course you will find some way to reassemble them the wrong way with a system in mind and then there you have it; a goofy childish looking picture that little or no longer leads the way. Not being a cruel person at heart, you have still given the relatives a shot at it should they eventually pry the paper form your cold dead hand. You were thinking of them when you reassembled the funny picture to look similar to a canyon just 50 miles away and added the names of several prominent landmarks in reverse order. Come on; use your imagination and a little common sense here. Do the maps look like they were drawn by a 5th grade grad or worse?
Their smarts didn't come from school; you had to be a learned man to survive that trail.

Do you still think that the Dutchman would take a course where he couldn't watch for trackers? Where he knew he could blow them off his trail and if it came down to it even lead them straight into the hands of one of the Apache camps? He knew just what he was doing and he wasn't leading them anywhere near his gold mine either. Same with the Dons. More time on the trail was spent watching out than anything else. You guys are dealing with a field tested military strategy in depth. If they didn't plan out every step, they were as good as dead and like I said before, "There ain't no gold in the Superstitions"

 

[Oroblanco]

Twisted Fork wrote

<snip>..and like I said before, "There ain't no gold in the Superstitions"

I respectfully disagree, there is indeed gold in the Superstition mountains of Arizona, as mentioned earlier. I suggest you research the Palmer mine for one example; a fair number of silver mines in the eastern part of the mountains of which several had very good gold deposits found within the mineralization. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the geology of the Superstitions, and are making a judgment based on what you have heard? To be sure, it is not a promising area for gold prospecting and to anyone seeking gold I would suggest many other districts before the Superstitions, but that gold has been found in paying quantities in the Superstitions is an historical fact, and a fact of geology as well.

Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo go to --> [video=vimeo;18135369]http://vimeo.com/18135369[/video]

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[EE THr]

Awsome!

 

[Oroblanco]

Ditto!

 

[Blindbowman]

Springfield wrote

My point is that the source material the writers base their work on is tainted to begin with.

All writers are at the mercy of their sources.

Blindbowman wrote

oro someone already did !

Not published, yet.

sorry i dont have to publish anything ..

i dont need a nother expedition .. or any one to tell me what i found ... thank you ...and good luck

i never said i dont under stand why you ask what you ask .. i dont even wonder what your goals are any more .. i guess the 5th member was correct ...

 

[EE THr]

sorry i dont have to publish anything ..

i dont need a nother expedition .. or any one to tell me what i found ... thank you ...and good luck

If you know that you have found the Lost Dutchman Mine, that means you have proof.

If you already have proof, then post it.

There is no reason not to post it, because you don't need to give the location. Just show whatever it is that proves it's the LDM. Very simple. No harm done. No debating necessary.

If you have found it, and you want to tell all of us folks that you did, then really do so.

On the other hand, if you don't have proof, then you don't really know, and you shouldn't say so.

Just simple logic.

 

[Blindbowman]

sorry i dont have to publish anything ..

i dont need a nother expedition .. or any one to tell me what i found ... thank you ...and good luck

If you know that you have found the Lost Dutchman Mine, that means you have proof.

If you already have proof, then post it.

There is no reason not to post it, because you don't need to give the location. Just show whatever it is that proves it's the LDM. Very simple. No harm done. No debating necessary.

If you have found it, and you want to tell all of us folks that you did, then really do so.

On the other hand, if you don't have proof, then you don't really know, and you shouldn't say so.

Just simple logic.

well stated EE

and under normal conditions that would be true ...

dont you think if i could post something that could do that i would ..?

now do you see my point .. its not that i dont have prove .. its that the prove i do have will start a gold rush like the world has never seen before ..

yes i have proff the fact is the proff i have would give the location away .and i just worked to hard to just give it away ...

i am going to make a legal claim on the site .. i have to confirm my proff with more proff before i will make the claim .. i have no doubt what so ever of what it is .. if i find a way to post part of the proff with out giveing the location away then i think your oversight would be a great idea in that case ..

yes i can prove it is the real Lost Dutchman Mine

but where i come from you need 3 peices of evidence to confirm it and i dont have all 3 peices yet .,.. in fact i know very little about whats in the mine it self .. for some silly reason not getting eat by a mt lion was a smarter choice then investgating the old mine at the time .. i had only afew mitues to get a few photos and run .. i am as sorry and as interested as all of .. if i posted why i know it ithe real mine then everyone would know why and in time someone would figer it out ...

dont get me wrong EE yes i have found the real dutchman mine and yes i can prove it .. i just wnat more evidence then what i have at this point ....if i climb in the mine and there is no gold left then who cares if its the real mine or not with out the ore sample its not real evidence that it is .. most will not agree anyway unless they see the ore and it matches the LDM .. am i not corrected ?

so till i can go on expedition 5 and get the samples and photos i need i have to wait like the rest of you .. what good is writeing the best book on the legend if you dont have the finial page to the book yet ?


i know where it is .. thats already proven to me .. i just dont want to go public untill i have the ore sample and photos to prove it to everyone ...

it just is not the case of proveing what it is .. we have to prove what it is and where when and why it is the LDM...

your statement is under standable ..lets see what i find on expedition 5 ... if the evidence is there i will try to make a full legal claim on the mine .. under the law .. i must produce photos and scaled ore sample photos showing the ore in the mine as it is removed for sampling and the photos must be to scale with a north arrow as in most evidence photos ...
the ore will have to be tested 3 times on 3 diffrent samples from the same mine ..

then anything in the mine or related to the site and location must also be photographed to scale in the same way ...

this is the evidence i am talking about .. i was by my self when i found the mine and i had been followed for more then 3 miles by a very big cat ...and he was still following me at a distence away .. not more then a few dozen yards behind me .. i had no other choice but to get what i could and keep moveing as fast as i could at the time ..

i got some great photos .. but at the time i had very little idea of what was really in the photos till later investgation define the evidence and told me i need one last expedition to define the evidence and get what is needed for a legal claim .. i have no idfea how this will all play out in cort and no doubt it will end up in a cort room ...

the point is for the best chance of winning in cort i must go back and get the evidence i would need to prove it in a cort of law under the forstery guide lines and federal law guide lines .. there are things you all dont know about the site and what is there ... these things are going to make it harder to prove . because i not only have to prove the mine it self .. but these other things are there at the same time .. or they become lost to a lack of evidence in their cases .. so i need to collect evidence on all 9 sites before i can make the legal claim on the LDM it self .. the other claims have to be documented as well when the sites are made public or they will end up ramsacked like other sites in the past ... i just will not let that happen .. dose any of this make sence to you ...

if you had a drunk of gold and you knew where it was and you found it setting there and could prove it was a drunk of gold would you prove it if there was 8 more drunks of gold setting around it ..?

would you claim only the one drunk of gold .. or would you wait till you could claim all 9 drunks at the same time .. even if i lose one or two in cort .. how much will i win ... if i have the evidence to prove all 9 sites are real....

its never been about not have some real evidence that what i found is in fact the LDM .. i know for a facty it is .. its the legal evidence and the other sites that i am working on ....

 

[EE THr]

BB---

Well, OK. When do you expect to release the information, at the same time you file?

 

[Blindbowman]

BB---

Well, OK. When do you expect to release the information, at the same time you file?

no . i will file 3 weeks before i make the evidence public....

 

[EE THr]

I guess they don't publish the filings until after they have finalized the paperwork, huh?

 

[Blindbowman]

I guess they don't publish the filings until after they have finalized the paperwork, huh?

no i plain to vanish for a few years .. i dont dis like the public .. i can 'nt stand it . i want nothing to to do with the out side world .. i never had .. even to the point of not leaveing my house for 3 years at a time ..

i dont plain on being in the public if its the real LDM .. i could care after its made public .. iam out here